The second most requested series in the last ~12 months (behind only Murcielago).

I had a difficult time tagging this series, so would like the community at large - the folks who requested it, specifically - to give me thoughts on the following: Comedy, Het, Subtext (I hate this tag), Yuri. This can be in the form of a tag suggestion or a comment. Thanks in advance!

last edited at Nov 19, 2014 9:39PM

I'm pretty sure it's confirmed yuri. Comedy is correct too. Het is a maybe.

I'd say put het on the AU/non-canon specials which feature it, but leave it off the main story until/unless confirmation otherwise. Going off of the tags on Batoto, the series is yuri but not romance (which you'd usually see on het series), as endorsed by the scanlator themselves in the comments.

I'm pretty sure it's confirmed yuri. Comedy is correct too. Het is a maybe.

I'd say put het on the AU/non-canon specials which feature it, but leave it off the main story until/unless confirmation otherwise. Going off of the tags on Batoto, the series is yuri but not romance (which you'd usually see on het series), as endorsed by the scanlator themselves in the comments.

Thanks both.

I felt, while reading it, that the series is pretty clearly set up where developments on either side could be just over the horizon. That said, I think Sol is pretty much correct, and will go ahead with that. What's the worst that could happen?

Cautiously eyes Happy End

I'm pretty sure it's confirmed yuri. Comedy is correct too. Het is a maybe.

I'd say put het on the AU/non-canon specials which feature it, but leave it off the main story until/unless confirmation otherwise. Going off of the tags on Batoto, the series is yuri but not romance (which you'd usually see on het series), as endorsed by the scanlator themselves in the comments.

Thanks both.

I felt, while reading it, that the series is pretty clearly set up where developments on either side could be just over the horizon. That said, I think Sol is pretty much correct, and will go ahead with that. What's the worst that could happen?

Cautiously eyes Happy End

Oh my Goddess please no!!!! not again...will not read until it's over then, have fun everyone!

I'm pretty sure it's confirmed yuri. Comedy is correct too. Het is a maybe.

I'd say put het on the AU/non-canon specials which feature it, but leave it off the main story until/unless confirmation otherwise. Going off of the tags on Batoto, the series is yuri but not romance (which you'd usually see on het series), as endorsed by the scanlator themselves in the comments.

Thanks both.

I felt, while reading it, that the series is pretty clearly set up where developments on either side could be just over the horizon. That said, I think Sol is pretty much correct, and will go ahead with that. What's the worst that could happen?

Cautiously eyes Happy End

Oh my Goddess please no!!!! not again...will not read until it's over then, have fun everyone!

From what I've gotten from looking at the raws, it's not going to be over any time soon.
Just a heads up.

So I'm guessing this is by a Chinese/Hong Kong artist? This definitely isn't Japanese.

Strong stuff.
As for tags...I think they're fine, but on the other hand - it's not a yuri manga, it's a manga with yuri. IMO that's a pretty big difference, though probably impossible to tag.

last edited at Nov 20, 2014 6:43AM

checked the tags, not going to read it until this is done, im not having another happy end

last edited at Nov 20, 2014 10:01AM

If this manga ends like Happy End, I'm never going to read yuri unless it's pure, male-less yuri

last edited at Nov 20, 2014 10:01AM

Happy End -> bisexual = drama, angst, loser characters, is not yuri

last edited at Nov 20, 2014 10:30AM

SP 2,3 Hurt me a bit.... Just a bit....No, it's not like that I'm crying. Just a ninja cutting onions in front of me. ; __ ;

If this manga ends like Happy End, I'm never going to read yuri unless it's pure, male-less yuri

I follow the same mindset to be honest. If I ever see any kind of male character, that actually has more of a role than that of just a background character, my reaction is - "For fuck sake." lol.

last edited at Nov 20, 2014 1:32PM

So I'm guessing this is by a Chinese/Hong Kong artist? This definitely isn't Japanese.

Correct, this is Chinese

SP 2,3 Hurt me a bit.... Just a bit....No, it's not like that I'm crying. Just a ninja cutting onions in front of me. ; __ ;

Don't take the SP seriously. They aren't really.

So sad, but so good. It kinda reminds me of Koe no Kitachi, which was also so sad, but so good. They both have that hopeless atmosphere that punches you in the gut, but also leaves you with a hopeful feeling (if that makes sense).

As for tags...I think they're fine, but on the other hand - it's not a yuri manga, it's a manga with yuri. IMO that's a pretty big difference, though probably impossible to tag.

I wholeheartedly agree.. Don't read it for the yuri, but read it for the story. It's not a manga about lesbian relationships. I've only read to ch 19 so far, but I highly doubt it is going anywhere like "Happy End". Besides they're only 11 in here and romance is the last thing they're worrying about in the story.

Also the SP are Het, but they aren't canon (thus far) and the author himself says it's just for fun. I wouldn't worry about it. I'm thinking unless there is a time skip, that this will end with no romance...but who knows? Maybe we will get fucked over and he decides to throw in a canon het relationship in a one chapter time skip ending like "Happy End" But I'm hoping he has better plot writing skills than that...I at least have faith that even if it ends up het, it won't come out of nowhere, since you can already see it going either way right now.

Oh well, I'm liking it so far and I'm along for the ride. Thanks for the upload!

ah, chapter 25, pg.14 that simple kiss on the forehead when Zhen kissed her Queen, flowers in the background, both eyes closed....damn. I'm so simple to satisfy. ahahaha

but man, if it wasn't for them little gestures, I would NOT have read this especially the lead is a guy and I don't do those when, there's yuri involved, just a no....

The translator said that these characters have very generic names, and in terms of sounds and number of syllables that might be true. But the characters (symbols) used to represent the words are slightly different than their typical generic sounding counterparts.

For example Hua's name is not the character for "flower" (花), which has been overused as a generic female name, but instead uses the character for "illustrious" (华) which is less used and much more poetic in my opinion. Same with Ling, which doesn't use the character for "bell" (铃) like the "ling" in "Mei-ling," but instead uses the character for "spirit," (灵).

Although Ming's name is still really boring, since it uses the expected character for ming, meaning "bright" (明). One of the comments on the original website was, "Ming!! Kill him and there will be no more math problems!" Because every math problem in school would start with something like, "Ming has five apples..."

I just wanted to say this because the names did sound boring, and looking at them this way makes it so much more interesting.

That said, I also want to elaborate that class president and student councils are serious business in Chinese schools. Due to a culture that values grades and academic achievements above most other things, and due to the pressure that parents put on schools to make the curriculum more rigorous and thus competitive, one would end up with a system where a typical school day starts at 7 am and extends well until 5 to 8pm with all kinds of lessons and classes. School being a big part of one's life then, makes the class president and student council seats so much more important and lucrative. School events are thus also much more important.

Late 1990s were a crazy time, especially for less important cities in China. The "rising middle class" phenomenon has just sort-of begin, and although some people's lives improved through education and other means, so has so many people's lives been disrupted by the shift to more specialized forms of labor and service. It was the time for dreams and paradigm shifts, and the portrayal of that time here is really great. Still, most of the country was quite conservative, and it bothers me that Hua's relationship with girls are just seen as a sort of play and never taken seriously, since it seems awfully familiar to the idea of "schoolgirl lesbians." I would be disappointed if an author who could inject so much romance into that time sidestep the idea of yuri in the end, but given the context it would not be surprising.

last edited at Nov 21, 2014 2:31AM

I doubt romance will or should play an important part in this story. Their age aside (they are in primary school), we've already had a foiled rape attempt, a divorce, lots of violence and it's just really dark in general. Is it really important whether it's Yuri or not?
Also, I don't know much about Chinese society, especially how a worker's life is (except that it's terrible), so does anyone know how accurate this is?

edit: This is... this is messed up. A society as portrayed here is sick. Even the primary school pupils already act so... inconsiderate or perhaps uncaring or even cruel? Some chapters really hit a bit too close to home for my tastes.

last edited at Nov 21, 2014 4:51PM

this feels like 20° century boys, it's more ironic, and self-ironic, but to me it seems as epic

I doubt romance will or should play an important part in this story. Their age aside (they are in primary school), we've already had a foiled rape attempt, a divorce, lots of violence and it's just really dark in general. Is it really important whether it's Yuri or not?
Also, I don't know much about Chinese society, especially how a worker's life is (except that it's terrible), so does anyone know how accurate this is?

edit: This is... this is messed up. A society as portrayed here is sick. Even the primary school pupils already act so... inconsiderate or perhaps uncaring or even cruel? Some chapters really hit a bit too close to home for my tastes.

agree it does not important anymore yuri or not, it got angst so meh.

I doubt romance will or should play an important part in this story. Their age aside (they are in primary school)

underage/young romance age manga are pretty common except if it some realistic manga.

last edited at Nov 22, 2014 4:21PM

I'm curious: What will be the point or message? Because right now they only have replaced the established system with the empress's* rule. Now, she's arguably a better leader (for now), but in the end, it's still the same: oppressive and dictatorial.
A dictatorship with a "good" leader may work quite well, but it's still wrong.

*I'm pretty sure the grammar is wrong, please correct it if you can

^ This story is not so dramatic as all of that... although it's true that the characters are struggling against an oppressive system/social injustices (mainly Hua and Ling), one of the key points developed is that they're still human, with weaknesses, personal motivations, and limitations. Although in a lot of ways Hua can indeed be said to be a remarkable character, she is not so exaggerated as for the story to be like a chronicle of her 'destiny' to change the world.

(Recall that the manhua is set in 1996. This means, at the very least, that the story has no intention of disrupting/denying the political system of China up until the present point which we know today.)

Ultimately, if you ask what is the 'point' of the story, up to now I would say it's about kids trying to do the right thing. The Empress is an Empress for refusing to bend to the injustices which she sees before her face. The kids follow her in the limited context of a classroom because they like her and it serves their self interests regarding both benefits and costs. The question of if the arrangement could survive any other environment outside of the classroom is very much up in the air, so the manhua should probably not be looked at as the story of some sort of radical new nation state. Instead, I would suggest looking at it in terms of the individual lives and passions of the characters - the question of what will ultimately come of Hua's fierce vision of her current world.

I'm curious: What will be the point or message? Because right now they only have replaced the established system with the empress's* rule. Now, she's arguably a better leader (for now), but in the end, it's still the same: oppressive and dictatorial.
A dictatorship with a "good" leader may work quite well, but it's still wrong.

*I'm pretty sure the grammar is wrong, please correct it if you can

Funny you should say that, because you are assuming that the idea of a dictatorship is just somehow inherently wrong.
Hua is a character larger than her own existence, because her will and enthusiasm is what powers the transformation of her entire class. In the face of a weak "citizenship," can anything other than a dictatorship or oligarchy change anything?

The idea that Hua will simply repeat the oppressiveness of the current system in the end seriously underestimates our hero doesn't it? After all, the whole point so far seems to be that Hua is different from the structures in place. It would not be wrong to say that if 5-3 was left to its own devices, it would just remain as a class that deserved its negative reputation. Seems to me like a terrible punishment to the children who we've seen are capable of so much and just didn't realize their own potential. That would have really been "still wrong."

Now there's a message. Sometimes the world is very oppressive and hopeless, but a strong Empress can remind everyone that together we can achieve something.

last edited at Nov 23, 2014 11:01PM

I'm curious: What will be the point or message? Because right now they only have replaced the established system with the empress's* rule. Now, she's arguably a better leader (for now), but in the end, it's still the same: oppressive and dictatorial.
A dictatorship with a "good" leader may work quite well, but it's still wrong.

*I'm pretty sure the grammar is wrong, please correct it if you can

Funny you should say that, because you are assuming that the idea of a dictatorship is just somehow inherently wrong.
Hua is a character larger than her own existence, because her will and enthusiasm is what powers the transformation of her entire class. In the face of a weak "citizenship," can anything other than a dictatorship or oligarchy change anything?

The idea that Hua will simply repeat the oppressiveness of the current system in the end seriously underestimates our hero doesn't it? After all, the whole point so far seems to be that Hua is different from the structures in place. It would not be wrong to say that if 5-3 was left to its own devices, it would just remain as a class that deserved its negative reputation. Seems to me like a terrible punishment to the children who we've seen are capable of so much and just didn't realize their own potential. That would have really been "still wrong."

Now there's a message. Sometimes the world is very oppressive and hopeless, but a strong Empress can remind everyone that together we can achieve something.

It has always been the same argument, dating back to ancient Rome. Society is "weak", morally bankrupt or facing a difficult crisis, therefore we need a strong leader to make things right. While it is true that someone with absolute power may be able to force great changes that wouldn't have been possible otherwise, it comes with a tradeoff. A dictator is just one person and their opinions, their beliefs would be absolute. What that means is that every other differing opinion is secondary, especially the one of minorities (think of race, religion, sexual orientation etc).

What kind of person could truly judge what is right or wrong? What kind of person is intelligent, wise, just and incorruptible enough to make it work?* Even if they are, what happens when they die? Who would follow? You can't just abolish a dictatorship. People who only know how to follow will have trouble being responsible for what they do. If you think about it, only a god could lead us all and that's exactly how monarchs used to justify their rule. Or religious extremists, i.e. the IS.

The empress has also established herself by a violent act (= kicking everyone in the balls). Again, the "strong" prevails over the "weak". Nowadays, I'd like to say we're beyond that.

Of course, this is fiction, but if that were the central message, if there would be people reading this, thinking "Hey, this is a good idea" I'd be very disappointed.

Which brings me to my last point: Can you name me one dictatorship in the history of ever that has worked out well?

*Hua isn't that person even though she's fictional. She's got problems herself. She isn't "larger than her own existence" and she isn't a hero(ine).

I apologise for derailing this thread but it seemed important enough to me.

last edited at Nov 26, 2014 8:24PM

Which brings me to my last point: Can you name me one dictatorship in the history of ever that has worked out well?

"Mussolini made the trains run on time."