Heavensrun, sometimes I wonder if I’m at fault for being able to compartmentalize my attitudes about real-life people as opposed to fictional characters, or if you’re impaired for analyzing fiction by your universalizing empathy for stipulated conglomerations of hypothetical characteristics.

If they were real people, almost every fictional character ever would benefit from mental health therapy. (OK, Hamlet, his mother, and his uncle/new stepfather would probably be best served by family counseling.) But then, we wouldn’t have the stories. We’d just have the transcripts to a bunch of therapy sessions.

Kaoru displays some aspects of situational depression (the death of her mother, the discovery of what turns out to be her husband’s emotional infidelity). But she also shows long-term evidence of just being oblivious to the emotional states of the people around her (all those “missed” confessions she made to Reiichi, Uta’s confession that she “missed”), and of generally being passive in dealing with problems, and, like most stories, this one presents those behaviors as within the purview of the characters themselves to resolve without medical intervention.

It might be possible to diagnose a real person who behaved like Kaoru does as suffering from long-term depression (although a therapist would require a lot more evidence of relevant behavioral patterns than we are given here), but I really don’t see the point of medicalizing fictional behavior when that’s not part of the ethos of the storyworld.

last edited at Aug 2, 2020 9:52PM

Perhaps this story is having an uncanny valley effect. Realistic enough to invite realistic analysis, making the desired happy ending hard to pull off, despite being a pretty modest situation.

Vs. "The Nice Neighborhood Lady" which is basically "look at the pedo and 8 yo being cute" in a completely flagrant fashion.

I seriously don't understand those people, who likes Risako. Like, why? It makes me sick in a stomach when I see people writing about her in so many superlatives, when she doesn't deserve to be liked. Manipulative, unhonest jerk. When I see characters in other series, that look like her, I immediately can't read / watch it because it reminds me of that one character, that I hate : P Sorry for bad Eng.

I won't blame you for hating her. She certainly has her own problems, but that is what makes her an interesting character to me. Although I think she should have handled things differently, I find her way of thinking understandable. Some people push others away before they have the chance to get rejected romantically or otherwise because they don't want to experience such unpleasant emotions. I also find her understandable regarding her desires to not feel things towards others and distancing herself. She appears out of touch with her emotions and unable to understand others emotions. This might be why she is so interested in Kaoru, because of how expressive she is. She even says herself she wonders how fun life would be if she could life like her. She seems very complex and her mindset and motivations intrigue me so I want to know more. For this reason she is one of my favorite characters in the series.

Utaaaaa come get yo depressed girl

Shit man this manga just gets more real by the chapter, props honestly

has anyone found a translation of this Risako bonus chapter? https://manamoa.net/bbs/board.php?bo_table=manga&wr_id=3668407

but like that other person said what would that accomplish other than lengthy the story? Shes not gonna end up with Kaoru and she definitely won't learn anything from Kaoru or Uta about accepting herself. Her being a lesbian doesn't sound that interesting imo

After my post on that subject a few days ago (but given how busy this thread has been many pages back).
https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/603184
Summary: Risako confessing to Kaoru wouldn't be accepted, and wouldn't advance Uta's story.

But thinking about it, there is at least one one story telling purpose Risako pining over Kaoru could serve. Kaoru has never directly addressed Uta's feelings, she has just said that it wasn't possible for her to respond to them (because of her marriage). Risako's story could be a warning/motivation for Kaoru. If Risako confessed, Kaoru wouldn't be interested, but she might also be saddened at all the angst the secret feelings caused down the years, and motivated to do some self-examination and clear the air with Uta instead of avoiding the topic because it is socially unacceptable.

I feel like there's better ways to achieve that same ending, though personally I don't want Kaoru to end up with Uta. I get what you're saying though.

I won't blame you for hating her. She certainly has her own problems, but that is what makes her an interesting character to me. Although I think she should have handled things differently, I find her way of thinking understandable. Some people push others away before they have the chance to get rejected romantically or otherwise because they don't want to experience such unpleasant emotions. I also find her understandable regarding her desires to not feel things towards others and distancing herself. She appears out of touch with her emotions and unable to understand others emotions. This might be why she is so interested in Kaoru, because of how expressive she is. She even says herself she wonders how fun life would be if she could life like her. She seems very complex and her mindset and motivations intrigue me so I want to know more. For this reason she is one of my favorite characters in the series.

My problem with her is how vague everything about her is. She feels so cliche and one dimensional. I'm gonna ruin your life because I either love you and don't wanna so I want you to hate me or I'm intrigued in the emotions you can make that I lack the ability or desire to make. Its like she's there just to make Kaoru suffer, which makes her more of a plot device to get her and Uta together. I don't find her or her possible love for Kaoru interesting.

last edited at Aug 4, 2020 1:41AM

Its like she's there just to make Kaoru suffer, which makes her more of a plot device to get her and Uta together.

That's pretty inaccurate. If it wasn't for Risako, Reichii's lack of romantic feelings towards Kaoru wouldn't come to the surface. Kaoru would probably always feel there's something missing with Reichii, and even get more and more miserable with years because of him not responding to her feelings.
Risako is the catalyst-wake up call for Kaoru to highlight the reality of her relationship with Reichii.

Its like she's there just to make Kaoru suffer, which makes her more of a plot device to get her and Uta together.

That's pretty inaccurate. If it wasn't for Risako, Reichii's lack of romantic feelings towards Kaoru wouldn't come to the surface. Kaoru would probably always feel there's something missing with Reichii, and even get more and more miserable with years because of him not responding to her feelings.
Risako is the catalyst-wake up call for Kaoru to highlight the reality of her relationship with Reichii.

This is inaccurate. She doesn't do anything. Reichii loves Risako but Risako herself doesn't do anything to help Kaoru until after they are caught. She would've let Kaoru feel the way she does if their little secret continued or if Reichii didn't come clean. Reichii is the one that brought things to the surface not Risako. She just reinforced what Kaoru already knew

last edited at Aug 4, 2020 2:10PM

This is inaccurate. She doesn't do anything. Reichii loves Risako but Risako herself doesn't do anything to help Kaoru until after they are caught. She would've let Kaoru feel the way she does if their little secret continued or if Reichii didn't come clean. Reichii is the one that brought things to the surface not Risako. She just reinforced what Kaoru already knew

You miss the point of Kaoru's very distinct characteristic. She always avoids everything hurtful, like her mom.
The situation with Risako and her thinking Reichii was cheating on her was what pushed her to discuss about it with him, and that's because she felt he was cheating.
If Risako didn't exist, Kaoru would barely process in her mind that maybe Reichii doesn't love her this way. Her mom died and she never told her she was sick.

You don't actively have to "do something". You can still be a catalyst regardless. Her presence influenced Reichii to meet with her, and then pushed Kaoru to finally talk about it after she saw them together.

last edited at Aug 4, 2020 3:56PM

You don't actively have to "do something". You can still be a catalyst regardless.

But to return to a point some ways back in the thread, that does make Risako primarily a “plot device,” not necessarily to get Uta and Kaoru together, as the OP was arguing, but to move Kaoru off her “starting over with Reicchi” stasis, anyway.

Risako getting together with Kaoru really isn’t in the cards, not even Risako making a serious play for her. I suspect that’s the point of making Risako so distant from her own emotions/desires—Risako may be “in love” with Kaoru in some sense, but she’s unlikely to do anything meaningful about it.

But to return to a point some ways back in the thread, that does make Risako primarily a “plot device,” not necessarily to get Uta and Kaoru together, as the OP was arguing, but to move Kaoru off her “starting over with Reicchi” stasis, anyway.

I wouldn't call her a plot device, because being a force to push the main character(s) is very important on itself. Plus, a plot device suggests something being blank. Risako's character is thought out and doesn't only have one layer.
True fillers here would be Uta's friends because they don't influence the story and its protagonists, despite them interacting with Uta for several chapters.

Point is, OP was saying Risako is useless, which is not the case because if you remove her, the story changes quite a lot. Now, remove Uta's friends and nothing happens. Both of them and Risako could be considered as secondary characters, but there's a difference of who is important for the story or not.

last edited at Aug 4, 2020 4:52PM

But to return to a point some ways back in the thread, that does make Risako primarily a “plot device,” not necessarily to get Uta and Kaoru together, as the OP was arguing, but to move Kaoru off her “starting over with Reicchi” stasis, anyway.

I wouldn't call her a plot device, because being a force to push the main character(s) is very important on itself. Plus, a plot device suggests something being blank. Risako's character is thought out and doesn't only have one layer.
True fillers here would be Uta's friends because they don't influence the story and its protagonists, despite them interacting with Uta for several chapters.

Point is, OP was saying Risako is useless, which is not the case because if you remove her, the story changes quite a lot. Now, remove Uta's friends and nothing happens. Both of them and Risako could be considered as secondary characters, but there's a difference of who is important for the story or not.

That’s a fair point. But didn’t the talk with one of them (Sex-Chan? Tall-Chan?) motivate Uta to some decision? (Confessing a second time? Moving out? Been a while since I read that part.)

But being filler/blank isn’t quite the same as a character just being a mechanical plot device, either. I’d point to the mean Mom as one of those—swoops in, delivers a bunch of exposition, and supplies Uta with a place to go when she leaves. But she might as well not really have existed except for that.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but there won't be a new chapter of my unrequited or citrus plus this month.

I love how Uta became a side character in her own story, poorly designed just to make Kaoru a little more tolerable, didn't work for me though, author's fleshing her out now it goes to show how weak she is, even more disappointed in Risako's character.

Genuinely dunno how to feel about this story, since Uta's "parting" it feels like author said: Enough of you all, Uta, Uta's friends, I'M TIRED OF YOU ALL, time to focus on Kaoru's uselessness/pitifulness, that's what sells and what people wants.
There ways and WAYS to address that, this route right here did not satisfy me in the least.

Genuinely dunno how to feel about this story, since Uta's "parting" it feels like author said: Enough of you all, Uta, Uta's friends, I'M TIRED OF YOU ALL, time to focus on Kaoru's uselessness/pitifulness, that's what sells and what people wants.
There ways and WAYS to address that, this route right here did not satisfy me in the least.

There’s no doubt that there’s been a major shift in character emphasis, and, to me, not for the better, but is there any evidence that The Sufferings of Kaoru are actually more popular with readers/a sales point for this series?

oh no, I didn't mean like that at all, I meant in a derogatory fashion lol, doubt Kaoru is the people's character here, could be wrong. I tend to be super comical, throw jokes left and right, and people never picks when I'm joking or not, but I didn't mean like that at all.

oh no, I didn't mean like that at all, I meant in a derogatory fashion lol, doubt Kaoru is the people's character here, could be wrong. I tend to be super comical, throw jokes left and right, and people never picks when I'm joking or not, but I didn't mean like that at all.

On the “what happened to Uta?” Issue, there’s been a long conversation here about “who actually is the protagonist?,” along with a slightly different, slightly more meta conversation about, “what does it say that there’s a question who the protagonist is?”

There’s also a question I’ve asked, which is, “If Uta isn’t the protagonist, why does all the marketing from the publisher focus on the story as if it were primarily the story of Uta’s (apparently) doomed love for Kaoru?” The obvious answer would be that “The author wants to to do an ensemble series, but the publisher doesn’t want to market it that way.”

I find that answer less than convincing because of what strikes me (and a number of others) as the rather haphazard and meandering way the story has been structured, but we won’t know definitively until the story is completed, if it ever is.

I finally read this series, and it sounds like this has already come up, but isn't it weird that a het drama, verging on het soap opera, runs in Yuri Hime? And, like, Uta's mom euthanized Kaoru's mom and that still hasn't come back up?

why does all the marketing from the publisher focus on the story as if it were primarily the story of Uta’s (apparently) doomed love for Kaoru?

It'd be quite the day in hell when Yuri Hime markets the het drama angle. The YH marketing will always be yuri regardless, I don't think it will help us understand the author's reasoning other than to say it's even more likely that YH would ignore a change in protagonists. Basically, I agree that this feels very meandering and I think the story doesn't feel very yuri-driven (considering of course the trinity of story types: character-driven, plot-driven, and yuri-driven.)

I’d point to the mean Mom as one of those—swoops in, delivers a bunch of exposition, and supplies Uta with a place to go when she leaves

Maybe the mom is actually going to release some tidbit of information about what she did to Kaoru that caused her to lose her practioner's license that will free up Reichi's guilt? The plot has shifted in the chapters since Uta moves to make a yuri ending plausible.

last edited at Sep 17, 2020 7:37PM

het drama

Uhh, Uta/Kaoru drama was the main spine of the series. Granted, it seems to be Kaoru/Reichii now, but since the drama is that he doesn't love her (that way), it'll plausibly swing back. Anyway it's running in Yuri Hime because it was very clearly a yuri drama.

euthanized

Was that ever clear? I'd taken it more as experimental treatment that failed, or just operating at all when there was a personal connection (thus violating ethics).

I assumed assisted suicide because of how dramatic everything is and how poor their family was. Kaoru could not afford a drawn out medical stay and I could see her mother not wanting to put that burden on her. And while i was being a bit hyperbolic, let's look at the quality of the drama.

We have yuri pining and two yuri side stories versus het relationship issues and anxiety about the instability of the main het relationship from as early as the end of volume one (Risako rolls in in what, chapter 4 with the foreshadowing and is like Wouldn't it be funny if I was sleeping with one of your husbands?) with the follow up broken ankle incident hanging over the entire series.

To me, full blown relationship issues are more of the dream of what we could be getting in yuri rather than pre-relationship scraps

last edited at Sep 17, 2020 8:06PM

euthanized

Was that ever clear? I'd taken it more as experimental treatment that failed, or just operating at all when there was a personal connection (thus violating ethics).

Some stories make it clear that real-world medical ethics are operative while in others it’s obviously manga/anime-world logic about stuff like radical new procedures, etc. (and it often seems like the more medically focused the series the more outlandish the logic, in order to add drama I suppose).

In this case it’s never clear whether there’s some revelation to come or if the author once had something in mind and then just forgot about it.

(I must say that the longer the Kaoru-angst gets dragged out the more I start to wonder what our madcap high-school lesbians are getting up to.)

So, we are heading toward a timeskip and a conclusion? Now that Uta and Kaoru poured their hearts out.

Ch 36 was, for once, exactly what I most wanted to happen, and incidentally has also addressed the main issues I had with time skip:
They have finally said what needed to be said about their feelings for each other. While that was unsaid a time skip would have just let things fester, but now they are in a place where a post-timeskip romantic development would be a natural progression of a their new trajectory, rather some pulled out of nowhere "time fixes all" magic resolution (harking back to previous discussions that is what I meant by timeskip as deus-ex)

edit: not implying I disliked the unexpected directions in the past, just that I have had a terrible record at anticipating previous chapters.

last edited at Sep 19, 2020 7:28AM