Kase’s general antipathy to guys can be easily explained by those grotesque swirly things they have on their noses.

Heh, now I'm imagining that guys in the Kase-san universe canonically have henohenomoheji faces and everyone but Kase just sees them as perfectly normal.

You're correct, but it's only in the extra pages that were added in volume 4 to flesh out the "Crêpe and Kase-san" chapter. Here on dynasty we have the magazine version, the tank version is slightly longer. Here's what you need to see:

Only read the Dynasty version so thanks for clearing it up.

Yeah I was just saying it was overanalysis because it's unlikely that after 6 volumes there would hidden dark psychological backstory to the characters, at least not without clear hints during the manga.

The ex thing was not really addressed in the magazine version so I thought it might come up again, like maybe Yamada goes to a college meet and sees Kase’s for real ex or something like that. Jealousy is a reoccurring topic for this series after all.

I'm confused why are people saying Kase is only scared of guys hitting on Yamada but not girls? first of all, no girls have ever hit on Yamada, so how do we know Kase isn't afraid of girls hitting on her if we never seen it happen thus never seeing Kase's reaction to it? and secondly, in the apron chapters at some point Kase actually says I don't want another boy OR girl to take you away (or something along those lines) am i forgetting something here? i don't ever recall any girls flirting with Yamada besides Kase?

It’s only me saying it. In the Dynasty version, she tells her she doesn’t want to wear the apron in front of the guys. I don’t know if it’s the same for the official translation. When Kase San hears about Hana-Chan she’s not jealous about someone new entering Yamada’s life. Also, she says something about horny guys hitting on Yamada when she has the yukata on and I’m just out here going, girls can be horny too.

But like someone said, I’m just over analyzing things.

Only read the Dynasty version so thanks for clearing it up.

Well, if the series is a favorite, the tanks have been different enough to make them worth getting.

The "Cherry Blossoms" love scene in Vol. 5, from "You wanna?" to "warm cherry blossoms" in the magazine version is 6 panels; in the tank version it's 13+ adorkable pages.

The ex thing was not really addressed in the magazine version so I thought it might come up again, like maybe Yamada goes to a college meet and sees Kase’s for real ex or something like that. Jealousy is a reoccurring topic for this series after all.

Yeah sorry, I didn't realize there were so much differences between the official release and the magazine release (even though "Yamada and Kase-san" is almost completely different), so that's why I was confused to some of the issues you raised, my bad ^^

It’s only me saying it. In the Dynasty version, she tells her she doesn’t want to wear the apron in front of the guys. I don’t know if it’s the same for the official translation. When Kase San hears about Hana-Chan she’s not jealous about someone new entering Yamada’s life. Also, she says something about horny guys hitting on Yamada when she has the yukata on and I’m just out here going, girls can be horny too.

Maybe that's because she saw men hitting on her (eg: apron scene/ drunk guys in the airport scene) but never women ? Or maybe Kase thinks that there less chances of that happening (after all, we don't any other women couple besides them, contrary to others yuri manga) ?

But honestly you raise a good point.

And for the overanalyzing part, I'm sorry if it's sounded mean, this wasn't my attention. In my opinion, there not much to analyze but if you think there are points to examine you're free to develop and I'd like to read them ^^

last edited at May 26, 2020 11:27AM

Heh, now I'm imagining that guys in the Kase-san universe canonically have henohenomoheji faces and everyone but Kase just sees them as perfectly normal.

I just want to point you to chapter 7, page 24: take a look at the name of the bar where the "city party" (aka mixer) is held...

Well, if the series is a favorite, the tanks have been different enough to make them worth getting.

The "Cherry Blossoms" love scene in Vol. 5, from "You wanna?" to "warm cherry blossoms" in the magazine version is 6 panels; in the tank version it's 13+ adorkable pages.

It was my first time reading. I wanted to see if it was enjoyable before purchasing since tomboy wasn’t really my thing. Definitely ordering off Amazon now though.

Well, if the series is a favorite, the tanks have been different enough to make them worth getting.

The "Cherry Blossoms" love scene in Vol. 5, from "You wanna?" to "warm cherry blossoms" in the magazine version is 6 panels; in the tank version it's 13+ adorkable pages.

It was my first time reading. I wanted to see if it was enjoyable before purchasing since tomboy wasn’t really my thing. Definitely ordering off Amazon now though.

Lots of good reasons to buy the tank due to extra pages (especially vol 5):
https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/449361

Yeah sorry, I didn't realize there were so much differences between the official release and the magazine release (even though "Yamada and Kase-san" is almost completely different), so that's why I was confused to some of the issues you raised, my bad ^^

The magazine version feels like it was supposed to be open ended. The publisher copies with extras seem like they’re more definitive.

Awaiting my amazon purchases to see just how different things are. I should probably see the differences between publisher copies and Dynasty with my other mangas as well....

I remember reading something on Citrus+ here and then the publisher version. The difference in wording totally set the whole thing in a different mood.

Not that I’m ungrateful for scantalators. They are performing a great service!

Maybe that's because she saw men hitting on her (eg: apron scene/ drunk guys in the airport scene) but never women ? Or maybe Kase thinks that there less chances of that happening (after all, we don't any other women couple besides them, contrary to others yuri manga) ?

But honestly you raise a good point.

I suppose it could be because Yamada has only been hit on by guys. Though, she’s not at all worried about Yamada being too friendly with a girl? She already knows Yamada’s open to dating girls and if Yamada is that clueless about guys approaching her, what more can a girl get away with? I realize it’s probably because being jealous about girls is more Yamada’s thing and that is one of the factors which separates their dilemmas.

And for the overanalyzing part, I'm sorry if it's sounded mean, this wasn't my attention. In my opinion, there not much to analyze but if you think there are points to examine you're free to develop and I'd like to read them ^^

It’s all good. I’ve admitted in prior posts about other series’s that I do in fact over analyze things. Like I said, the magazine version felt more open ended to me.

There’s like that recurring theme of the two of them reacting before they can talk about things. Jealousy/insecurity is also recurring so I figured the ex thing would probably happen.

So I’m going with the standby that Kase probably thinks guys are prone to be perverted and more aggressive and Yamada is utterly clueless to how attractive she is so that’s why Kase’s worried.

I'm pretty sure Kase herself told Yamada that she was her first girlfriend in the original serie.
Can't remember the exact page but I'm pretty sure that betwee Volume 3 and 5.

You're correct, but it's only in the extra pages that were added in volume 4 to flesh out the "Crêpe and Kase-san" chapter. Here on dynasty we have the magazine version, the tank version is slightly longer. Here's what you need to see:

OMG thank you so much for posting those pages I've been looking for that scene X33333 :DDDDDD AWWWWW Kase is so in love with Yamada it's adorable >////////<

I think it was more like Kase didn’t want her to throw herself at some randos. Hana wasn’t looking for platonic conversation, she was looking to get her flirt on. Kase directed Hana over to the hut where the track guys she knew would be.

Suuuuuuuuper not Kase's business.

I cannot interpret her actions here as anything but one lady telling another "Don't be a slut." Maybe I'm wrong in my interpretation, but if I'm not, that is hella bad.

I don’t know if she’s protecting Yamada’s innocence from the outside world per se. Kase seems like she’s being possessive, which could be rooted to a fear of Yamada dumping her to conform with the rest of society and get with a dude, than her wanting to preserve Yamada’s purity.

I think if we were gonna get into that, we would have already. It miiiiight happen, but I would be shocked if the reader was supposed to think Kase's actions are anything but hot and cute.

Suuuuuuuuper not Kase's business.

I cannot interpret her actions here as anything but one lady telling another "Don't be a slut." Maybe I'm wrong in my interpretation, but if I'm not, that is hella bad.

She didn’t tell her not to flirt. She told her not to flirt with the new dudes.

The way I see it, Kase’s being a good friend. Given how Hana is a girl who from the country whose starved for some action, I can understand why Kase wants her to be careful and steers her in the direction of guys she does know who won’t so readily take advantage of a naive and eager girl. In this case, I think it’s appropriate.

Given Hana’s reaction to the underage drinking at the mixer, she might be biting off more than she can chew by attracting those randos.

I mean, where should we draw the line? Do we only step in when our friend is in trouble? Is it wrong if we try to guide them toward a safer route?

Of course, this is my interpretation based of magazine translations, not the publisher ones.

I think if we were gonna get into that, we would have already. It miiiiight happen, but I would be shocked if the reader was supposed to think Kase's actions are anything but hot and cute.

I only read the magazine version so it felt like a possibility that could come up in a series. But since it’s been pointed out that Kase doesn’t have an ex it’s probably more like Kase wants to protect her from the pervy dudes who might try to take advantage of Yamada. Those drunk dudes at the airport did get a bit touchy from what I remember.

The issue of Kase caring about Yamada’s “purity” or “innocence” has never once been explicitly mentioned in the series.

She’s always been highly protective of Yamada, and is eagle-eyed for men on the make for Yamada, a number of whom actually have been exactly that—skeevy guys trying to hit on Yamada.

Having experienced the profound naïveté of Hana-chan at the mixer bar, she’s now extended a bit of her protectiveness to Yamada’s new—and equally inexperienced—friend.

Kase has directly said a number of times that she worries that, since Yamada is so cute and sexy, someone will come along and take her away. But none of that possessiveness and insecurity has ever been couched in terms of sexual purity or the preservation of Yamada’s innocence.

HOT DAMN I didn't notice before Yamada's bikini strap sliding down 0///W///0 (page 19)

Kase has directly said a number of times that she worries that, since Yamada is so cute and sexy, someone will come along and take her away. But none of that possessiveness and insecurity has ever been couched in terms of sexual purity or the preservation of Yamada’s innocence.

You're right, of course, and I actually lol'ed at the idea of Kase on a quest to preserve Yamada's chastity or virginity or purity or whatever.

Were Yamada to find out, she would be puzzled. "But... Kase-san... have you forgotten?"

Kase has directly said a number of times that she worries that, since Yamada is so cute and sexy, someone will come along and take her away. But none of that possessiveness and insecurity has ever been couched in terms of sexual purity or the preservation of Yamada’s innocence.

Well first, barging in constantly because you're afraid someone will take away your girlfriend if she has a conversation with them is kinda not actually all that much better.

But the point is, I'm trying to figure out what the appeal to this is supposed to be for the audience, to see this repeated over and over and over again with no development or resolution. It's supposed to be entertaining in and of itself, because it sure isn't going anywhere.

Also "don't sell yourself so cheaply" is... very much a comment about purity, c'mon dude.

You're right, of course, and I actually lol'ed at the idea of Kase on a quest to preserve Yamada's chastity or virginity or purity or whatever.

The whole idea is, she swoops in to protect Yamada because Yamada's innocence is hers. I mean, can you think of other reasons Yamada would be portrayed as a tiny useless child who needs rescuing from... uh, slightly ambiguous social situations that a grown-up should really be able to deal with? I'm definitely open to suggestions.

OK seriously, is it actually this big controversial idea that it's shitty and nonsensical to tell a near stranger not to hit on someone she wants to hit on (using language that obviously suggests slut-shaming), because she's friends with your girlfriend? Is it really kooky-crazy that'd be worth criticizing in a piece of media?

last edited at May 27, 2020 7:27PM

Kase has directly said a number of times that she worries that, since Yamada is so cute and sexy, someone will come along and take her away. But none of that possessiveness and insecurity has ever been couched in terms of sexual purity or the preservation of Yamada’s innocence.

Well first, barging in constantly because you're afraid someone will take away your girlfriend if she has a conversation with them is kinda not actually all that much better.

But the point is, I'm trying to figure out what the appeal to this is supposed to be for the audience, to see this repeated over and over and over again with no development or resolution. It's supposed to be entertaining in and of itself, because it sure isn't going anywhere.

Also "don't sell yourself so cheaply" is... very much a comment about purity, c'mon dude.

You're right, of course, and I actually lol'ed at the idea of Kase on a quest to preserve Yamada's chastity or virginity or purity or whatever.

The whole idea is, she swoops in to protect Yamada because Yamada's innocence is hers. I mean, can you think of other reasons Yamada would be portrayed as a tiny useless child who needs rescuing from... uh, slightly ambiguous social situations that a grown-up should really be able to deal with? I'm definitely open to suggestions.

OK seriously, is it actually this big controversial idea that it's shitty and nonsensical to tell a near stranger not to hit on someone she wants to hit on (using language that obviously suggests slut-shaming), because she's friends with your girlfriend? Is it really kooky-crazy that'd be worth criticizing in a piece of media?

This is all a ridiculously overstated paraphrase of what’s happening in this story. You disapprove of it—we get that. Maybe somebody else agrees with your tendentiously loaded language, and is made just as uncomfortable as you seem to be.

The potential counter-arguments to this can only end up in a bunch of quibbling over the accuracy of hyperbolic statements like “tiny useless child” and “near stranger.” You obviously want to read this as some sort of propaganda handbook for bad gender behavior, so by all means knock yourself out—deplore to your heart’s content.

OK seriously, is it actually this big controversial idea that it's shitty and nonsensical to tell a near stranger not to hit on someone she wants to hit on (using language that obviously suggests slut-shaming), because she's friends with your girlfriend? Is it really kooky-crazy that'd be worth criticizing in a piece of media?

This is all a ridiculously overstated paraphrase of what’s happening in this story. You disapprove of it—we get that. Maybe somebody else agrees with your tendentiously loaded language, and is made just as uncomfortable as you seem to be.

What's your interpretation? I legitimately, honestly can't think of any other way to take that scene, and especially that comment. How do you read it?

The potential counter-arguments to this can only end up in a bunch of quibbling over the accuracy of hyperbolic statements like “tiny useless child” and “near stranger.” You obviously want to read this as some sort of propaganda handbook for bad gender behavior, so by all means knock yourself out—deplore to your heart’s content.

It's hyperbole to say Kase is a near-stranger to whatshername? They're friends? We've seen them interacting a lot on a deep, personal level?

I'm in general just kind of confused about why this sort of criticism seems so surprising for you and maybe some others. It's not just disagreement (though again, I still am curious what possible other interpretation could be made of "sell yourself so cheaply"), it's like reading with an eye for (extremely minimal) feminist critique is some odd unexpected thing on a website all about queer women.

I'm in general just kind of confused about why this sort of criticism seems so surprising for you and maybe some others. It's not just disagreement (though again, I still am curious what possible other interpretation could be made of "sell yourself so cheaply"), it's like reading with an eye for (extremely minimal) feminist critique is some odd unexpected thing on a website all about queer women.

This is disingenuous in the extreme. You’ve gone on about how totally unacceptable Kase’s actions are, and how difficult it is to ignore the distressingly negative depictions, etc., and subsequent mild agreement with or qualifications of your view from other readers seem to make no difference to you.

I’m by no means “surprised” at this critique coming from you; as I said, I think that it’s a hyperbolic overreaction to the content of the story; almost any story can be made to seem horrific through a hostile paraphrase.

As with many stories, there may be, looked at through your particular lens, problematic aspects to it. So what? It ruins your enjoyment of the story, as it does not for many other readers.

Some adults aren't good in social situations. Doesn't mean they're childish

Also "don't sell yourself so cheaply" is... very much a comment about purity, c'mon dude.

--da what now?
*looks up definition of "purity": freedom from adulteration or contamination or freedom from immorality, especially of a sexual nature

"Don't sell youself so cheaply" is not "don't sell youself"
The "not cheaply" refers to self-worth. She could as well have said "have some standards, gal" (opposed to hitting up some strangers because they look nice).
This is very much not a comment about purity. Very, very, very much not, when the next thing she says is basically "If you really want attention, I know some guys who will treat you nice, go and knock yourself out flirting with them".

So, yeah, another lovely chapter.
Got thirsty Kase, slapstick Kase, hot-damn-that-body Kase, hold-em-bum Kase and a very sweet knows her GF's weaknesses and creatively finds a way to help her without her having to feel embarrased -Kase (Edit: ...ah, that's where the title... \me slowpoke).
I'm happy~

last edited at Jun 4, 2020 2:41PM

i agree =^w^=

I'm in general just kind of confused about why this sort of criticism seems so surprising for you and maybe some others. It's not just disagreement (though again, I still am curious what possible other interpretation could be made of "sell yourself so cheaply"), it's like reading with an eye for (extremely minimal) feminist critique is some odd unexpected thing on a website all about queer women.

I’m by no means “surprised” at this critique coming from you; as I said, I think that it’s a hyperbolic overreaction to the content of the story; almost any story can be made to seem horrific through a hostile paraphrase.

Again: What is your interpretation of the things I'm talking about? If you disagree, that's fine, but I'm legit unsure what people believe instead. Why does this KEEP happening?

It sounds like you're saying I should not be looking at this from the very freshman-level women's studies feminist lens I'm using, but why? (I get this from you granting it's problematic from that pov, so your issue can't be disagreeing with my interpretation from within it.) But... why is that unwelcome?

As with many stories, there may be, looked at through your particular lens, problematic aspects to it. So what? It ruins your enjoyment of the story, as it does not for many other readers.

So this is a forum for discussing the manga, and that's what I'm doing? I'm legit not clear what point you're trying to make, here.

The "not cheaply" refers to self-worth. She could as well have said "have some standards, gal" (opposed to hitting up some strangers because they look nice).

Tying self-worth to whether or not you hit on strange dudes is pretty shitty. Why the hell shouldn't she hit on a dude she sees and thinks is hot, if purity has nothing to do with it?

last edited at Jun 6, 2020 8:16PM

I'm in general just kind of confused about why this sort of criticism seems so surprising for you and maybe some others. It's not just disagreement (though again, I still am curious what possible other interpretation could be made of "sell yourself so cheaply"), it's like reading with an eye for (extremely minimal) feminist critique is some odd unexpected thing on a website all about queer women.

I’m by no means “surprised” at this critique coming from you; as I said, I think that it’s a hyperbolic overreaction to the content of the story; almost any story can be made to seem horrific through a hostile paraphrase.

Again: What is your interpretation of the things I'm talking about? If you disagree, that's fine, but I'm legit unsure what people believe instead. Why does this KEEP happening?

It sounds like you're saying I should not be looking at this from the very freshman-level women's studies feminist lens I'm using, but why? (I get this from you granting it's problematic from that pov, so your issue can't be disagreeing with my interpretation from within it.) But... why is that unwelcome?

“Unwelcome” is, again, a tendentious term—you’ve made your points, repeatedly. You have been welcome to make those points; others have found them to be overstated and unconvincing.

Pretty much any gendered depiction can be positioned as “problematic” by a hostile enough reading, but since comic fiction is not intended as a handbook of righteous behavior (if it were, your objections then might seem more relevant), but in fact often consists of people behaving less than perfectly (since, you know, that’s the basis of the most fundamental narrative building block: conflict), continually harping on how comedic characters fall short of some ideal standard of social behavior seems rather beside the point.

Several readers have given much more plausible and nuanced readings of the encounter between Kase and Hana, which you have rejected in favor of one that emphasizes how “shitty” Kase’s behavior is. Your interpretation leans incredibly hard on whatever Japanese term has been translated as “cheaply” in order to see this as some kind of extreme Puritanical act on Kase’s part, a reading which is completely unsupported by the overall context of the story.

Quite obviously, Hana, a girl from a rural area who seems to have had an even more sheltered upbringing than Yamada (which is is saying a hell of a lot) is eager to get into the swing of het dating but (as was clearly demonstrated at length and in detail by the earlier singles-party sequence) she doesn’t have the slightest idea of how to go about it safely. Kase—as has been pointed out to you repeatedly—steers Hana away from the random men on the beach toward guys at the shop who are known to the older girls.

You read this as a horrific violation of social norms with an objectionable subtext about sexuality; others read it as a more socially aware girl looking out for her naive girlfriend’s equally naive friend. Restating your feelings of outrage at this point is unlikely to get anyone else to share them, but you are of course welcome to try.

“Unwelcome” is, again, a tendentious term—you’ve made your points, repeatedly. You have been welcome to make those points; others have found them to be overstated and unconvincing.

I'm not sure how else to describe your responses, and the responses of one or two other people. Are you trying to say your replies have been welcoming?

Pretty much any gendered depiction can be positioned as “problematic” by a hostile enough reading, but since comic fiction is not intended as a handbook of righteous behavior (if it were, your objections then might seem more relevant), but in fact often consists of people behaving less than perfectly (since, you know, that’s the basis of the most fundamental narrative building block: conflict), continually harping on how comedic characters fall short of some ideal standard of social behavior seems rather beside the point.

You're kinda trying to have it both ways, here. You're chiding me for trying to interpret the story's themes in the first place, but then you spend the rest of your post telling me my interpretations of those themes are wrong. I'm confused:
Are you against the very notion of asking the question if anything in a manga is problematic (as the above suggests), or do you think this particular manga isn't problematic (as you suggest below)? The former nullifies the latter, so I don't get your stance.

Several readers have given much more plausible and nuanced readings of the encounter between Kase and Hana, which you have rejected in favor of one that emphasizes how “shitty” Kase’s behavior is. Your interpretation leans incredibly hard on whatever Japanese term has been translated as “cheaply” in order to see this as some kind of extreme Puritanical act on Kase’s part, a reading which is completely unsupported by the overall context of the story.

Well, the fact that you say "puritanical" makes me extremely worried you have never understood what point I'm trying to make. "slutshaming is bad" is, like... the opposite of puritanical.

Anyway, I've also mentioned that this dynamic (Kase obsessed with Yamada's sexual safety in the face of imaginary slobbering dudes, in situations where Yamada is in no real danger whatsoever) KEEPS REPEATING, in chapter after chapter, with no development. THAT is the context in which I read Kase's "sell yourself cheaply" line. This didn't come from nowhere.

You read this as a horrific violation of social norms with an objectionable subtext about sexuality; others read it as a more socially aware girl looking out for her naive girlfriend’s equally naive friend. Restating your feelings of outrage at this point is unlikely to get anyone else to share them, but you are of course welcome to try.

I'm not even the only person who commented on that particular line.

But I'm still confused, because you're pitting two things against one another that can coexist. A manga can include a socially aware girl looking out for her naive girlfriend's naive friend AND ALSO contain objectionably sexist themes. That aspect of the manga can in fact be the thing that communicates those themes! I worry you jumped in to argue against what I'm saying but have misunderstood it from the start.

last edited at Jun 7, 2020 12:09AM

Jesus, karp—you don’t like the pattern, and you want “development” you’re not getting—do you think anybody doesn’t get that? I know perfectly well what you’re arguing, and have from the start, since you keep repeating it over and over.

Your lack of reading comprehension suggests that there is something seriously wrong here—I explicitly said that (in your hyperbolic interpretation) Kase is being Puritanical (“slut-shaming”), not you.

You seem amazed that everyone doesn’t have the same visceral disgust with this series that you do, and nothing anyone says seems to change that. I’m certainly done trying.