People can feel bad about wronging others quite literally for their entire lives after all.

I can be wrong but she doesn't seem to feel bad here.

...she literally just entered the room and said her greetings you know. The heck are you expecting, her collapsing into a sobbing mess right out of the gate or something?

Whatever her intentions she always came across as a fairly collected person if nothing else - and whatever she wants to say she's had a long time to mull over and mentally prepare for.

last edited at Aug 8, 2019 10:16PM

I think it’s hilarious how many people think that a chapter entitled “The Trial” is going to be about poor little misunderstood conflicted-by-society lesbian senpai come to throw herself upon the mercy of the court.

May you be right.

...she literally just entered the room and said her greetings you know. The heck are you expecting, her collapsing into a sobbing mess right out of the gate or something?

Yeah but she seem to being fine here

how many people think that a chapter entitled “The Trial”

Actually it's "Their Trial" not "The Trial"

last edited at Aug 9, 2019 6:57AM

how many people think that a chapter entitled “The Trial”

Actually it's "Their Trial" not "The Trial"

Yes, I typoed.

Yes, I typoed.

You know such errors are unforgivable atrocities here. Your punishment shall be forgetting how "Stretch" actually ends so you will reread it and feel despair for the rest of your life.

Yes, I typoed.

You know such errors are unforgivable atrocities here. Your punishment shall be forgetting how "Stretch" actually ends so you will reread it and feel despair for the rest of your life.

OK, that's way too harsh a punishment, especially since it's Blastaar we're taking about here. Can we ditch the

feel despair for the rest of your life

part of it?

last edited at Aug 9, 2019 8:07AM

Yeah but she seem to being fine here

Alongside narrative structures I am beginning to question your grasp of the most elementary human psychology.

Yeah but she seem to being fine here

Alongside narrative structures I am beginning to question your grasp of the most elementary human psychology.

That's what happen when you don't like human interactions.

Yeah but she seem to being fine here

Alongside narrative structures I am beginning to question your grasp of the most elementary human psychology.

Senpai's giggle, followed by the heart in the word balloon, followed by Chidori feeling a cold wind, followed by mention of a typhoon coming = subtle indicators that a contrite senpai is on her way to kowtow before Chidori and beg forgiveness for her transgressions.

Yeah but she seem to being fine here

Alongside narrative structures I am beginning to question your grasp of the most elementary human psychology.

Senpai's giggle, followed by the heart in the word balloon, followed by Chidori feeling a cold wind, followed by mention of a typhoon coming = subtle indicators that a contrite senpai is on her way to kowtow before Chidori and beg forgiveness for her transgressions.

You know as well as I do that's as lurid a hyperbole as they come and has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Yeah but she seem to being fine here

Alongside narrative structures I am beginning to question your grasp of the most elementary human psychology.

Senpai's giggle, followed by the heart in the word balloon, followed by Chidori feeling a cold wind, followed by mention of a typhoon coming = subtle indicators that a contrite senpai is on her way to kowtow before Chidori and beg forgiveness for her transgressions.

You know as well as I do that's as lurid a hyperbole as they come and has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

C'mon, the overall gist of senpai's character is that she's kind of an asshole. There's no indication that when she comes back, she's still not going to be kind of an asshole, at least at first.

I was less talking about your point than the (to me surprising) general impulse around here to rehabilitate senpai before we know anything at all (except for the slight cues I mentioned) about what she's actually up to.

C'mon, the overall gist of senpai's character is that she's kind of an asshole. There's no indication that when she comes back, she's still not going to be kind of an asshole, at least at first.

I was less talking about your point than the (to me surprising) general impulse around here to rehabilitate senpai before we know anything at all (except for the slight cues I mentioned) about what she's actually up to.

Which is exactly why I'm reserving judgement until we have more relevant information to work with. As things stand it could go either way - and even if her intentions are bonafide benign Igarashi will still likely stir up quite the shitstorm simply by rattling loose any number of Chidori's issues.
All bets are off if they aren't ofc.

All of this is a quite separate matter from what I was talking about, which was Lilliwyt's bizarre attempts to claim normal human behaviour such as not penitently crawling in dust in sackcloth (whipping yourself optional) as proof positive of ill intent.

last edited at Aug 9, 2019 10:44AM

which was Lilliwyt's bizarre attempts to claim normal human behaviour such as not penitently crawling in dust in sackcloth (whipping yourself optional) as proof positive of ill intent.

I didn't ask her to be all tears and sorry but that isn't the face of someone feeling bad of what she have done.

last edited at Aug 9, 2019 10:57AM

C'mon, the overall gist of senpai's character is that she's kind of an asshole. There's no indication that when she comes back, she's still not going to be kind of an asshole, at least at first.

I was less talking about your point than the (to me surprising) general impulse around here to rehabilitate senpai before we know anything at all (except for the slight cues I mentioned) about what she's actually up to.

Which is exactly why I'm reserving judgement until we have more relevant information to work with. As things stand it could go either way - and even if her intentions are bonafide benign Igarashi will still likely stir up quite the shitstorm simply by rattling loose any number of Chidori's issues.
All bets are off if they aren't ofc.

All of this is a quite separate matter from what I was talking about, which was Lilliwyt's bizarre attempts to claim normal human behaviour such as not penitently crawling in dust in sackcloth (whipping yourself optional) as proof positive of ill intent.

We're on the same page--I just picked the wrong spot to make my point.

Even though past performance does not guarantee future results, my money's still on "back to be an asshole," pending further evidence.

which was Lilliwyt's bizarre attempts to claim normal human behaviour such as not penitently crawling in dust in sackcloth (whipping yourself optional) as proof positive of ill intent.

I didn't ask her to be all tears and sorry but that isn't the face of someone feeling bad of what she have done.

And I'm telling you that's literally not how most people behave. Most prefer to try to act however now passes for normal for them if not too upset to manage that for some reason, and approach challenges with an air of confidence if they can. It's partly for your own sake, keeping lid on your own anxieties and all that, and partly because you generally don't want to advertise whatever inner turmoil you might be experiencing to all and sundry.

People can and do maintain very convincing facades of nonchalant normalcy all the time despite their actual circumstances being sometimes outright nightmarish (one way or another, as several "respectable everyman" serial killers have demonstrated).

And concrete counterpoint: this sure looks like a face full of :regrets: - it's actually the first of all of three instances we see Igarashi's default smug smile faltering. (The other two being when Chidori all but confessed to her and called her out.)

Most prefer to try to act however now passes for normal for them if not too upset to manage that for some reason, and approach challenges with an air of confidence if they can

If it wasn't for the spoiler we get about how she seem to really regret it then i can't have bring myself thinking : 'oh she seem confident but deep down she regret it and want to apologize'. It's not because it's clear to youthat it's clear to me

Most prefer to try to act however now passes for normal for them if not too upset to manage that for some reason, and approach challenges with an air of confidence if they can

If it wasn't for the spoiler we get about how she seem to really regret it then i can't have bring myself thinking : 'oh she seem confident but deep down she regret it and want to apologize'. It's not because it's clear to youthat it's clear to me

...I'm really not seeing the need for spoiler-wrapping that but anyway. There's no inherent conflict between confidence and genuine desire to apologise you know, doubly so if you've had time to think the matter over and mentally prepare beforehand and are now filled with DETERMINATION. If anything if you have strong emotional investement in the issue you'll probably want to go in as composed and confident as you can already to keep a check on your own feelings whatever they now might be - people tend not approach such situations with the goal of turning into a blubbering mess halfway through (but you know what they say about the best laid plans).

And concrete counterpoint: this sure looks like a face full of :regrets: - it's actually the first of all of three instances we see Igarashi's default smug smile faltering. (The other two being when Chidori all but confessed to her and called her out.)

I'm not reading any of those expressions as especially regretful/remorseful or otherwise a person thinking they were in the wrong/one down (however you want to describe it).

At most I see that first one as "regret" as in, "Huh, the chocolate ploy didn't work--didn't count on that."

And the confrontation one seems like, "Now I've got to deal with this."

Facial expressions and body language are among this author's strengths, and she's as adept at ambiguity as forthright denotation. I see those two examples (the confession one not so much) as basically ambiguous and not giving away much.

This is all basically prediction stuff, which I try to stay away from. But I'm reading the relatively few cues very differently, anyway.

last edited at Aug 9, 2019 11:55AM

Speculations all well and good, but why get so aggressive/righteous about your guess lol? Like, it’s not that I disagree with what you’re saying but... it’s speculation. Why throw around such strong language like “bizarre, questioning your grasp of elementary [concepts], [insert hyperbole about someone else’s claims ie “penitently crawling around in sackcloth” lol].” Since you’re both just trying to call numbers on a roulette spin, it’s impossible to definitely say who’s right until the ball actually drops. Therefore, even “bizarre claims” have some level of probability, and Lilliwyt’s claim isn’t even that bizzare. Whatever a person’s true feelings are, when they act obliquely and hold their cards close to their chest, it’s difficult to trust them. That’s also normal. Narrative predictions also place more weight on author framing than human behavior, although both typically play a part in good writing, because whether a character acts in a believable, “human” way is dependent on the purpose the author wants them to carry out.

That being said, read chapter 45 and signs are pointing towards her being an asshole, or at least still being really vague and manipulative so there’s that.

and Lilliwyt’s claim isn’t even that bizzare.

I already know i have weird way of thinking situations.

At most I see that first one as "regret" as in, "Huh, the chocolate ploy didn't work--didn't count on that."

I read that as the face she was making when Chidori entered, actually, given it's shown as part of her flashbacks of the encounter - unclear if it was before or after she'd said her "hard pass" piece ofc.

But it's certainly an expression very different from her confident default demeanor.

And the confrontation one seems like, "Now I've got to deal with this."

Oh, it certainly looks like the face of someone resigned to an uncomfortable but inevitable reckoning. She was effectively two-timing or at least very close to it and not terribly subtly either; she must've known it was pretty much only a matter of time before Chidori learned of her BF and was likely to start asking awkward questions. What's more interesting is her long thoughtful silence and apparent hesitation before dropping the proverbial axe on their relationship (the rather ambiguous expression she has when delivering the verdict isn't helping).
One possible explanation would be that Igarashi plain underestimated how genuinely invested Chidori was in what she may have originally viewed as that classic "playing at love at all-girls school" trope and when essentially put on the spot to choose between that relationship and her BF found it unexpectedly difficult to make the call. And going by the whole Valentine's business later may have underestimated how invested she herself got and started having second thoughts down the road.

Shouldn't cry over spilled milk but people are only too often terrible at following that chestnut. Teenagers doubly so.

Facial expressions and body language are among this author's strengths, and she's as adept at ambiguity as forthright denotation. I see those two examples (the confession one not so much) as basically ambiguous and not giving away much.

This is all basically prediction stuff, which I try to stay away from. But I'm reading the relatively few cues very differently, anyway.

Hey, someone has to play the Devil's Advocate.

Speculations all well and good, but why get so aggressive/righteous about your guess lol? Like, it’s not that I disagree with what you’re saying but... it’s speculation. Why throw around such strong language like “bizarre, questioning your grasp of elementary [concepts], [insert hyperbole about someone else’s claims ie “penitently crawling around in sackcloth” lol].” Since you’re both just trying to call numbers on a roulette spin, it’s impossible to definitely say who’s right until the ball actually drops. Therefore, even “bizarre claims” have some level of probability, and Lilliwyt’s claim isn’t even that bizzare. Whatever a person’s true feelings are, when they act obliquely and hold their cards close to their chest, it’s difficult to trust them. That’s also normal. Narrative predictions also place more weight on author framing than human behavior, although both typically play a part in good writing, because whether a character acts in a believable, “human” way is dependent on the purpose the author wants them to carry out.

I'm calling them bizarre because they appear to expect absurdly overwrought over-emoting in circumstances where psychologically plausible characters have no reason whatsoever to behave in such manner, whatever their motives (outliers like deliberately trying to appear as lunatics for some reason nonwithstanding). Their standards are seemingly calibrated on the basis of lurid telenovela narratives and, perhaps, the cartoonish exaggerations of light-hearted comedy series and woefully out of place in subtle human-relationship stories like this.

last edited at Aug 9, 2019 12:35PM

I'm calling them bizarre because they appear to expect absurdly overwrought over-emoting

I went and reread the last two discussion pages cuz your response made me think I was missing something lmao. Where are the telenovela dreams? The Saturday morning cartoon demands on morality? Not seeing it. Should I go back 3 pages? Can I get a quote?

...I’m starting to feel like I’m white knighting tho, so I should also probably back off / get off my high horse lol.

Uh, isn’t it kind of cute that both Chidori and Nanoha changed their long-standing hairstyles in high school? It makes me wanna see a flashback chapter of Nanoha with short hair. I also kinda want a “Beginning of Their Friendship” set of chapters now too ngl

the cartoonish exaggerations of light-hearted comedy series and woefully out of place in subtle human-relationship stories like this.

That's an interesting take on this series, one that I basically agree with, but except for the foreshadowing inherent in the series title and for this current arc, I think many people would regard the series as almost entirely light-hearted fluff, closer to a repetitive 4-koma than to the more serious dramatic narrative series.

I happen to think it's an example of how light-hearted fluff can also be subtle about human relationships (I personally think Tsurezure Biyori is another such example).

One thing I like about manga in general is the way stories can vary their register of tonal seriousness, sometimes from one panel to the next, and the ability to manipulate that dynamic smoothly and without making the shifts in tone seem jarring or off-putting is one of the higher-level mangaka skills.