Going to toss in here that even in fiction it's more complex. The romance genre is full to overflowing with stories about relationships that didn't work out, the previous partner died, etc.and the protagonist goes on to find a new love who's just as good if not better than the old one.

That’s also true. I just somewhat tired of this specific trope in korean dramas. Too much of that, lol.

And I don’t think there was intention for the main story to describe “one and forever special love”. For me it was story about trying to finally letting go of unhealthy and meaningless relationships despite lingering feelings and all love in the past. It was hard for all participants, there were mistakes and missteps, bad and good intentions, and I want to see them doing better. Sumin is there for sure and now Seju maybe can be too. She has complicated circumstances and now has a chance to end her “habit”, her lifestyle, like Nami was trying to convince her all the time. Maybe it’s not the best writing about new love interest appearing like that, but it’s not inconsistent.

I think the inconsistency is the writing quality of the “destined love” vs “real world/new loves”. Which yeah is completely up to the individual to evaluate, but enough people don’t think the latter is up to par that’s all

And I would guess the reason is because the supposed “unreal” destiny-like relationship is actually depicted more realistically with 2 characters who seem real in so far that they have a lot of personality problems and so on, while the relationships that are supposed to be real life-like are with avatar characters with zero negative qualities lol

last edited at May 27, 2019 12:05PM

I think the inconsistency is the writing quality of the “destined love” vs “real world/new loves”. Which yeah is completely up to the individual to evaluate, but enough people don’t think the latter is up to par that’s all

And I would guess the reason is because the supposed “unreal” destiny-like relationship is actually depicted more realistically with 2 characters who seem real in so far that they have a lot of personality problems and so on, while the relationships that are supposed to be real life-like are with avatar characters with zero negative qualities lol

Sorry, I don’t quite get it, which is which? And where is “destined” love? Sumin and Sungji? For each their own, sure. Right now I want to see closure of Seji story. I want to see her in different circumstances, because for me she is one of the protagonists. Over the course of story she become more than some typical first love of older woman that go bad. Yeah, she could've go to the sunset in the end and that all, but I was happy to hear that there is more chapters just for her and new nice character. I only hope that Won have backstory too, lol.

If you go back Blastaar mentioned that the main story + Paradise commits to 2 parallel storyline threads, one which depicts Seju and Sumin as “destiny” lovers (because of the intensity, tragedy, the way that the flashbacks of their original relationship always seem happier and more heartfelt than anything we have seen since then etc), and Sungji and Sumin as “real life” lovers that essentially got together primarily due to timing/circumstance/insert real life factor here.

So I just mentioned it’s funny because that’s totally true, but where Team GJ goes wrong is that they make the halves of the “real life” couples, Sungji and Dowon, into some ideal avatars rather than real people with negative qualities. While the idealized couple is the one that seems realistic given they are both little assholes who mess up like crazy.

For me that’s the core of why the story is going downhill (again, for me). This Dowon situation isn’t even believable lolz And it kinda makes the whole thing the opposite of healing in my opinion?

It’s like they are saying Seju can only heal from her relationship woes if she is stuck in an island alone conveniently with another girl who happens to be a lesbian, hot and available. That’s so empowering...not. Same thing with Sungji and Sumin, so Sumin can only heal if she is with a doormat who accepts anything without questioning her. Rather than someone who calls her out on her bullshit, so that she can finally evolve beyond being a selfish prick. Well okay then :P

last edited at May 27, 2019 2:51PM

Imo, Seju’s feeling for Sumin isn't love either. I got the idea from reading the chapter where Nami made her cry.

Well let’s not get into a discussion of “what is love?” here. Specially because what people usually mean when they say something is not “love”, is that they are trying to disqualify whatever they think is not love, as “lesser”. Which is total bullshit of course. If I am so obsessed about a girl that I would kill or die for her for example, and pursue her relentlessly (not forcing contact but never getting tired of trying to please her, say ) is that love? Of course it is, in so far as I overwhelming desire to be with her, to protect her etc. You could say that’s stronger love than what someone else feels, if they would give up on that girl at the smallest sign of rejection or “danger” because they are “selfless”.But what if intense love also makes the person an overbearing, obsessed lover? And what if being a respectful selfless lover makes the person weak in defending their love in the face of obstacles? It’s not black and white.

I was not talking about the quality/amount of love. Seju lacks of love. It has appeared to me that she just needs one which can be any kind of love; not necessarily a romantic one. She was obsessed with the love Sumin gave her; not with Sumin per se imo.

I think she was both obsessed with the love Sumin gave her (and became more so once Sumin started mistreating her, since she has a scarcity mindset caused by lack of family love), but also obsessed with Sumin herself. Her ways of showing care are just unusual, like purchasing stuff, because that's how she was shown love by her dad.

I don't see evidence that she just needs "any" kind of love tbh...I mean she sure has the hots for Dowon, no sisterly bond there.

BTW I dared to read the new chapter. At this point the only thing that will make this story interesting is if Won has murdered someone and is hiding in the island. She is entering doormat territory at lighspeed.

last edited at May 27, 2019 11:15PM

If you go back Blastaar mentioned that the main story

Oh! Yeah, I read it. For me this story more simple. Seju and Sumin loved each other for sure in the past, just, you know normal first love. But in a main story, after 10 years, they were “sex friends” that mixed obsession, revenge and guilt with long shuttered love. Sungji not a bad character, I personally like her more than some of the heroines in this type of stories, it’s just hard for me to care for her and her with Sumin. But she played her role in the story, partly leading others to finally breaking the circle. And her family was funny, lol. Won I like much more in terms of personality. But again it’s me.

And in real life what Seju, and maybe Sumin, needed is good psychotherapist and pills, not just sleeping pills and some island with hot girl, lol. But, yeah, it’s simple, nice story.

last edited at May 27, 2019 11:32PM

I think she was both obsessed with the love Sumin gave her (and became more so once Sumin started mistreating her, since she has a scarcity mindset caused by lack of family love), but also obsessed with Sumin herself. Her ways of showing care are just unusual, like purchasing stuff, because that's how she was shown love by her dad.

You can't say it was unusual if you do not have her usual ways to compare to. She was ready to leave Sumin when her family asked her to go study abroad though until Sumin confessed to her that she loved her. So, imo, what held her back was the word "love", not Sumin herself.

And in real life what Seju, and maybe Sumin, needed is good psychotherapist and pills, not just sleeping pills and some island with hot girl, lol. But, yeah, it’s simple, nice story.

Both Seju and Sumin definitely could do with psychological help, but sadly it is South Korea which has quite a stigma towards mental health and has the second highest suicide rate in an OECD country.

I think she was both obsessed with the love Sumin gave her (and became more so once Sumin started mistreating her, since she has a scarcity mindset caused by lack of family love), but also obsessed with Sumin herself. Her ways of showing care are just unusual, like purchasing stuff, because that's how she was shown love by her dad.

You can't say it was unusual if you do not have her usual ways to compare to. She was ready to leave Sumin when her family asked her to go study abroad though until Sumin confessed to her that she loved her. So, imo, what held her back was the word "love", not Sumin herself.

Mmm I think you are reading too much into that one scene. She was definitely in love with Sumin by that point but I don’t think she thought she could be loved back. Which is why she said, she wanted to do as much as she could for Sumin before she left Korea.

And in real life what Seju, and maybe Sumin, needed is good psychotherapist and pills, not just sleeping pills and some island with hot girl, lol. But, yeah, it’s simple, nice story.

Both Seju and Sumin definitely could do with psychological help, but sadly it is South Korea which has quite a stigma towards mental health and has the second highest suicide rate in an OECD country.

That was always my big question with this story.
If both Seju and Sumin went for more than 10 years around this obsessive cycle, I find it pretty unrealistic how suddenly Sumin broke it when she found Sungji.
Seju still struggling is more realistic imo.

last edited at May 28, 2019 8:12AM

And in real life what Seju, and maybe Sumin, needed is good psychotherapist and pills, not just sleeping pills and some island with hot girl, lol. But, yeah, it’s simple, nice story.

Both Seju and Sumin definitely could do with psychological help, but sadly it is South Korea which has quite a stigma towards mental health and has the second highest suicide rate in an OECD country.

That was always my big question with this story.
If both Seju and Sumin went for more than 10 years around this obsessive cycle, I find it pretty unrealistic how suddenly Sumin broke it when she found Sungji.
Seju still struggling is more realistic imo.

They both have different mental health issues and i don't feel like Sumin is portrayed as being cured of hers. Mental health is a complex issue, there are many types and then individuals experience it differently.

last edited at May 28, 2019 8:29AM

Is no one going to comment on the fact that Seju casually threw herself into a pool just to see if Dowon was going to save her? And Dowon asks no questions lol I am not sure why Team GJ believes that the path to healing from trauma and mental health problems lies in finding a romantic partner who accepts everything you do without calling you out, but they seriously think that.

last edited at May 28, 2019 10:50AM

And in real life what Seju, and maybe Sumin, needed is good psychotherapist and pills, not just sleeping pills and some island with hot girl, lol. But, yeah, it’s simple, nice story.

Both Seju and Sumin definitely could do with psychological help, but sadly it is South Korea which has quite a stigma towards mental health and has the second highest suicide rate in an OECD country.

That was always my big question with this story.
If both Seju and Sumin went for more than 10 years around this obsessive cycle, I find it pretty unrealistic how suddenly Sumin broke it when she found Sungji.

Sumin never broke it in my view, in the sense of healing from the underlying mental health stuff. She found in Sungji a kind of escape valve, a distraction from her core problem of self-hate and defensive pride against Seju who she considers a superior being no matter if goddess (pre cheating) or devil incarnated (post cheating).

Sungji OTOH is super into her and pretty but otherwise a normal person, so she is safe with Sungji because her fragile ego isn’t in danger.

Seju still struggling is more realistic imo.

last edited at May 28, 2019 11:31AM

If Sumin had an inferiority complex that actually makes sense. But I also wonder, can a person like that function in a healthy way with someone they feel safe? Cause I always believed that if you have an issue, it will come out with everyone eventually. But I guess sometimes it also works.

Is no one going to comment on the fact that Seju casually threw herself into a pool just to see if Dowon was going to save her? And Dowon asks no questions lol I am not sure why Team GJ believes that the path to healing from trauma and mental health problems lies in finding a romantic partner who accepts everything you do without calling you out, but they seriously think that.

I haven't read the new chapters, but that sounds lame af lol. Sounds like they're gonna pull another Sungji like

Seju is clearly not okay and this is what was shown there. Some can try asking her out for her behavior, but it will be meaningless, because she not in right state of mind. She is not reasonable human being. Yeah, doctor needed and long long time ago. But like that, Won tactics from day one is better.

If mental illness is such stigma, then hotel for two have more points from me, lol. After all, this trope with pure new love is presented in this age gap lesbian dramas all the time. Like all the time. And I like it, when it meets my criteria, after all it what fiction for. But it is still sad that so much people in real life can’t get help there.

It's not a spoiler, right? I hope so.

last edited at May 28, 2019 12:49PM

If Sumin had an inferiority complex that actually makes sense. But I also wonder, can a person like that function in a healthy way with someone they feel safe? Cause I always believed that if you have an issue, it will come out with everyone eventually. But I guess sometimes it also works.

Sumin herself in Paradise says she is afraid her emotions for Seju might develop into an inferiority complex because she thinks Seju is so amazing at everything. And they had just started dating. I took that as the missing piece to explain her entire behaviour pretty much.

I think you are right that if you have an issue like that it will happen with everyone, unless the person effectively is or behaves as though she is always so docile and non-threatening that you alway feel safe. I would say Sungji fits the bill. Till when, god knows. In real life probably not for long.

Oh I haven't read that chapter where Sumin explicitly says it. Well, that's actually some good writing in regards to how they explain why these characters are like this.

I only follow this one kind of tangentially, because I had a hard time liking any of the characters, and even initially pretty much just hated the hell out of Seju; if anyone sees any of my very early posts about it that's obvious, lol. Changed my mind later but... I didn't like how the main story resolved. That said... about the latest chapter...

LOLWAT. She best be meaning literally sleep next to because she's concerned for the well being of an obviously disturbed and secluded individual who just leapt into a pool to "mess with her". Otherwise I'ma throw up my hands and permanently file this whole mess away as "boredom fodder to laugh at later".

LOLWAT. She best be meaning literally sleep next to because she's concerned for the well being of an obviously disturbed and secluded individual who just leapt into a pool to "mess with her". Otherwise I'ma throw up my hands and permanently file this whole mess away as "boredom fodder to laugh at later".

Even if she is offering to sleep next to Seju out of some weird kindness of heart, how can we not understand it as mere plot device for something romantic/sexy to happen? Everything is so damn forced. That’s the bigger question here.

I have a hard time believing that Sumin has an actual inferiority complex and not just low self esteem at that part of the story. Have to be careful when diagnosing mental health as symptoms are often shared. Which chapter in particular are you mentioning. (I only skimmed through Paradise as i have no interest in the side stories themselves)

last edited at May 28, 2019 5:19PM

Oh jeez. I don’t remember which particular chapter, it’s the one where they are studying together in bed I think? She doesn’t say she HAS an inferiority complex, but she legit says she might develop an inferiority complex (actual words used) because Seju is so great blabla, and so because of that she needs to study very hard and be able to contribute with something. She says that in response to Seju freaking out, Seju has just asked if she (Seju) was a burden to her.

The scene seemed to be about revealing their deep down weaknesses and foreshadowing of what was to come. After all Seju indeed thinks she is a burden, which makes sense given that’s what she was considered by her family all along, her dad inclusive. So I considered that Sumin too, exposed herself in that scene.

Paradise is a great piece of storytelling tbh, I don’t know wtf happened with this new story.

last edited at May 28, 2019 6:06PM

Hmm. Maybe i'll have to give it a proper read then when i get some time.

So here is a question: did Seju try to kill herself by drowning in the pool out of a suicidal impulse, or was she really trying to joke with Dowon? I want to think the former, but then again, she did seem super chill, didn't cough or anything lol

Claiming it was suicidal thought is a kind of exaggeration, but no one would damage themselves just for joking around with a person like that. My opinion would be Seju was trying to wash her away her pain for a moment, when you look at it closer, she was wiping her tears of suddenly receiving an innocent kindness from somebody after a lifetime of being mistreated, not only by Sumin but all kinds of people around her. I would say she wanted so experience the feeling of suffocating and refreshing by water a bit, knowing too well that a professional swimmer was there to save her in any moment. After this drowning, Seju would look kinda "reborn" to me. Her saying that it was a joke is only an excuse to reassure Won because she didn't know Won could be this serious and even shed tears for her or for anything when Seju wondered "why would she cry" back in her room.

Regarding Won's request to sleep together with Seju. I'd rather say everything happens for a reason, out of Won's caring nature and worrying for the well being of boss. She was possibly standing there thinking back of all the events happened after Seju stayed in the villa. Holding the rope, eating improperly, staying away from people as a habit resulted from being misunderstood, taking sleeping pills, piercing to let off steam and now drowning. Seju was indeed not fine like she said, causing Won to constantly ask the question "Are you feeling fine?". Sumin once said to Seju she could fall asleep easier if there was somebody by her side. Now Do Won just wants to make sure that Seju wouldn't make another mess again. If something romantic can happen for plot device, it would be thanks to Seju who let it happen. If this time Seju won't reject Won's offer to sleep together then we can be pretty sure she already has feelings for Won, at least friends since Seju chose to believe in what Won said now, she has gained Seju's trust so far. In that case it isn't any strange if something happens. But for now I believe it will be just a night talk between them.

last edited at May 31, 2019 2:19PM