Nezchan posted:

idk, I find that Nikaido being all lewd/thirsty is kind of a letdown, since up until now she's actually been her own brand of innocent. Maybe not oblibious-innocent like Todakoro-san, but not a horndog.

In my opinion, Nikaidou has been horny since ch 2. It's just that it became more explicit now that she can reach it.

Nezchan posted:

idk, I find that Nikaido being all lewd/thirsty is kind of a letdown, since up until now she's actually been her own brand of innocent. Maybe not oblibious-innocent like Todakoro-san, but not a horndog.

In my opinion, Nikaidou has been horny since ch 2. It's just that it became more explicit now that she can reach it.

Have to agree with you. It gets especially noticeable in the infirmary chapters.

Yet, even though Kase-san was as thirsty as Nikaidou is, none criticized her.

Why is it a "let down"? Because she voices it and it destroys your image of "pure love between girls"?

Nya-chan posted:

Yet, even though Kase-san was as thirsty as Nikaidou is, none criticized her.

Why is it a "let down"? Because she voices it and it destroys your image of "pure love between girls"?

For me it just makes her better lol.

luinthoron posted:

Nezchan posted:

idk, I find that Nikaido being all lewd/thirsty is kind of a letdown, since up until now she's actually been her own brand of innocent. Maybe not oblibious-innocent like Todakoro-san, but not a horndog.

In my opinion, Nikaidou has been horny since ch 2. It's just that it became more explicit now that she can reach it.

Have to agree with you. It gets especially noticeable in the infirmary chapters.

Yes, but she was on the merge of the limit each time tadokoro-san whas whatching her. During the drawing she was thinking that she would look at her chest, while closing her legs, trembling.
It was all pretty explicit imo, with the escalation from the infirmary scene.

Yet, even though Kase-san was as thirsty as Nikaidou is, none criticized her.

Why is it a "let down"? Because she voices it and it destroys your image of "pure love between girls"?

Excuse me, what? Kase-san is nowhere near this broken. She has a healthy sex drive, but she isn't drooling and fantasizing all the time.

I dont mind Nikaido's attitude, but please don't make undue comparisons here.

Even though it's more subtly shown, I'm convinced that Kase-san is as much of a horn-dog than Nikaidou.

Even though it's more subtly shown, I'm convinced that Kase-san is as much of a horn-dog than Nikaidou.

Agreed—the time Kase halfway tried to get Yamada to stop for a “rest” in the love hotel comes to mind. She wasn’t seriously serious, but if Yamada had gone for it. . . .

Kase and Nikaidou both are thirsty af, but both also respect their partner’s boundaries (and kind of love them for it). The gap in the level of desire (or actually more like awareness) in the couples is just played for humor differently.

Yet, even though Kase-san was as thirsty as Nikaidou is, none criticized her.

Why is it a "let down"? Because she voices it and it destroys your image of "pure love between girls"?

Wow, there's some A-class mindreading right there. Don't strain yourself.

Even though it's more subtly shown, I'm convinced that Kase-san is as much of a horn-dog than Nikaidou.

Well count me unconvinced then. There is a very obvious gap in desire between those two characters. Of course it's played up for comedy here, but that in itself is already proof enough that it's beyond the normal spectrum. Kase-san is a hormone filled teenager, but she can actually think of other things while her girlfriend is with her and doesn't interpret any action as a sexual advance.

Even though it's more subtly shown, I'm convinced that Kase-san is as much of a horn-dog than Nikaidou.

Well count me unconvinced then. There is a very obvious gap in desire between those two characters. Of course it's played up for comedy here, but that in itself is already proof enough that it's beyond the normal spectrum. Kase-san is a hormone filled teenager, but she can actually think of other things while her girlfriend is with her and doesn't interpret any action as a sexual advance.

The fact that her life doesn't happen in the confines of circa four pages per chapter might of be relevant. Nikaidou is, by necessity of the medium, much more condensed.
Hell.
The entire story is.

The fact that her life doesn't happen in the confines of circa four pages per chapter might of be relevant. Nikaidou is, by necessity of the medium, much more condensed.
Hell.
The entire story is.

An unfortunate(?) side-effect of the medium/genre, but that doesn't change the facts. Nikaidou has an exaggerated personality, but that is her personality nontheless. I have seen many 4koma with this page count that manage more subdued and subtle interactions anyway.
I like this manga the way it is.

The comparison is simply unfitting. There is also nothing wrong with being way hornier than Kase-san. It's not a hard thing to accomplish honestly. The community tends to really play it up too much.

Nezchan posted:

Yet, even though Kase-san was as thirsty as Nikaidou is, none criticized her.

Why is it a "let down"? Because she voices it and it destroys your image of "pure love between girls"?

Wow, there's some A-class mindreading right there. Don't strain yourself.

Nezchan, Please keep such comment to yourself in the future.

It was inappropriate: you don't answer the question, or make any valid point, you're just being aggressive. Being the only mod around here doesn't mean you can insult other members by belittling them.

Nezchan posted:

Yet, even though Kase-san was as thirsty as Nikaidou is, none criticized her.

Why is it a "let down"? Because she voices it and it destroys your image of "pure love between girls"?

Wow, there's some A-class mindreading right there. Don't strain yourself.

Nezchan, Please keep such comment to yourself in the future.

It was inappropriate: you don't answer the question, or make any valid point, you're just being aggressive. Being the only mod around here doesn't mean you can insult other members by belittling them.

Nya-chan, Please keep such snide speculation to yourself in the future.

Talk about just being aggressive, just where did you get that I have an image of "pure love between girls"? Is it from my long history of making comments about how terrible impurity is? Or maybe all the comments about how terrible girls with actual sex drives are in general. OH WAIT! That doesn't exist! You basically just took some stock complaint and slapped it on what was otherwise a pretty innocuous statement of personal feeling about this story in particular. So don't get all snotty about someone else being inappropriate when you're the one who went on the attack.

And I don't even know what being the mod has to do with any of this, since you're the only one who brought up modding at all.

I guess your job is to read every comment to see if they are worthy of moderation, but it's not mine. IE, I don't read your comments, except when they are on the same page I'm commenting on, or quoting one of mine. So I don't see why I should have extensive knowledge about what you think about girls with sex drive.

I see a comment I disagree with, I ask a question about it and make a speculation that may (and it actually did) spark some sort of debate. And I was under the impression that discussing about various aspects of the mangas here, and the characters in them, is actually what this comment section is for.

Your only participation in this was an ad-hominen.

As others have said, the couples dynamic in the two stories is basically parallel, with one very avid partner paired with a willing but sweetly naive one. The major difference is that this story is more of an over-the-top goofy farce as opposed to the gentler comedy of the other one, with an accompanying difference in focus and tone.

One entirely practical difference in-universe(s) is also that Tadokoro gave Nikaidou a reasonably explicit greenlight back in the infirmary and only the nurse's surprising but inevitable return stopped them from doing the deed right then and there, so they both know the other is very much up to it if the mood is right.
That's not going to help Nikaidou's mind stay outta the gutter one bit...

Poor Kase is meanwhile still getting epically blueballed by Yamada who being part of the plant kingdom seems to be only very vaguely aware of carnal relationships even being a thing, in theory.

How about we go back to the original point about the story?

I just read through this whole thing three times. Nikaidou is in hard crush mode from the last page of Chapter 1. Tadokoro smashes her face into Nikaidou’s breasts in Chapter 6 (as we know, each chapter is less than a handful of pages), and basically invites a kiss in Chapter 9. She breast-nuzzles again in Chapter 15.

Both of them have been ba-dumping at world-class levels all through the story, and in that respect Tadokoro may well out-ba-dump Nikaidou (too many of the sound effects are shown as mutual to really say for sure). And the love-blushes also are pretty equal in number and degree.

Obviously, anybody can feel anything they like about the story, but I don’t really see a significant change in Nikaidou’s character from the start of the story—she flips for Tadokoro as soon as she notices how cute she is, and she really tries to be considerate of Tadokoro’s innocence, probably a little more than she needs to be, since at this point Tadokoro seems to be all-in herself. It’s just that (very much like Yamada in the Kase-san series) she’s just too naive to quite grasp everything that “all-in” entails.

Nikaidou is a thirsty lesbian, but she also sincerely admires Tadokoro’s artistic work, and they both have fun doing non-lewd things together—going to the cafe, playing games at the arcade.

(OK, the romantic-straw love-drink was a little on the lewd side, but that was an accident.)

hey! maybe.... Nikaidou wants to kiss Tadokoro, thats why she touches her lips... they havent kiss yet! and she wants Tadoroko to move first, and by the way the story is going Tadoroko may sync with her felings sooner or later.... wait for it!

An unfortunate(?) side-effect of the medium/genre, but that doesn't change the facts. Nikaidou has an exaggerated personality, but that is her personality nontheless. I have seen many 4koma with this page count that manage more subdued and subtle interactions anyway.
I like this manga the way it is.

The comparison is simply unfitting. There is also nothing wrong with being way hornier than Kase-san. It's not a hard thing to accomplish honestly. The community tends to really play it up too much.

I have no idea what you’re trying to communicate here, especially in your last paragraph. As I understand it, you’re OK with the story and the character’s behavior as it is, but the character is “broken,” with behavior “beyond the normal spectrum,” and the comparison with Kase-san is “undue” and “unfitting.”

As others have said, the couples dynamic in the two stories is basically parallel, with one very avid partner paired with a willing but sweetly naive one. The major difference is that this story is more of an over-the-top goofy farce as opposed to the gentler comedy of the other one, with an accompanying difference in focus and tone.

Kase’s superhero jump to save Yamada from the predatory boys at the cultural festival is very much a lower-key version of Nikaidou’s heroic interventions in this one. Sure, the stories are different, as the fact that Kase’s jump was revised out of the collected volume reinforces even more. But where’s the violation (as suggested by your negative language) in seeing how they’re parallel?

I am not a fan of exaggerating or construing a character's traits or personality for the sake of a comparison that is unfitting. That is my issue. In their respective stories both types of characters are completely fine, they are just not on the same level in the one aspect that was compared. I don't see how I didn't make that clear yet.

The focus and tone of a story influence the characters personalities, so you are just underlining my point here. Nobody in the Kase-san universe is as 'broken' as Nikaidou. Nobody is as exaggerated.

Hmm... This has gotten almost completely off topic by now. My original reply was only intended to point out that Kase-san is by far not as much of a horndog, thus the comparison is meaningless for what they were discussing. Saying "Everyone was okay with Kase-san being this horny" is simply wrong, because she isn't.

One entirely practical difference in-universe(s) is also that Tadokoro gave Nikaidou a reasonably explicit greenlight back in the infirmary and only the nurse's surprising but inevitable return stopped them from doing the deed right then and there, so they both know the other is very much up to it if the mood is right.
That's not going to help Nikaidou's mind stay outta the gutter one bit...

Poor Kase is meanwhile still getting epically blueballed by Yamada who being part of the plant kingdom seems to be only very vaguely aware of carnal relationships even being a thing, in theory.

Excuse me, have you finished Kase-san? Because in the final chapters they actually did "it". Yamada is completely aware, her sex drive is just way lower.

The focus and tone of a story influence the characters personalities, so you are just underlining my point here. Nobody in the Kase-san universe is as 'broken' as Nikaidou. Nobody is as exaggerated.

I dissent about Nikaidou being "broken". It's expressed in a more exaggerated way (she's literally drooling in her fantasies), because this is a comedy, but it doesn't warrant labeling her as "broken".

We don't get to peek into Kase-san's fantasies, because the author's way to depict her horniness is glances at Yamada's legs, boobs or lips, not drooling, but the level is the same: healthy sex drive.

Blastaar
Try not to respond to two different people simultaneously please, or at least make clear who you’re quoting when.

It’s the “broken” description that has yet to make sense; the rest of the “unfitting” business is your usual “everyone else is simply wrong because I get to declare what ‘facts’ are” argument.

(You’re right that that Kase and Yamada have had sex, which is a fact; random is correct that Yamada nevertheless still acts like she’s barely aware of what sex is. And any further comments specific only to that story need to go in another forum thread.)

Pardon? Can you not recognize you own post? If it gives you that much trouble I suppose I can put your name into it next time.

Sheesh. You're still in a bad mood, huh? You really don't like when people use colloquial speech...
By broken I was simply refering to her abnormal actions and attitude. It's just a side-effect of the comedy. Don't take it so seriously.
I don't tend to use that kind of argument, but suit yourself (lol). They are not on the same level so it is unfitting to compare them for me. If you disagree that's fine, but you were the one who asked me to clarify here.

Nya-chan
I dissent about Nikaidou being "broken". It's expressed in a more exaggerated way (she's literally drooling in her fantasies), because this is a comedy, but it doesn't warrant labeling her as "broken".

We don't get to peek into Kase-san's fantasies, because the author's way to depict her horniness is glances at Yamada's legs, boobs or lips, not drooling, but the level is the same: healthy sex drive.

You people sure take offense to the weirdest of things. Fine, she isn't broken. It's still abnormal. I would say the same thing of for example, characters in "Kaguya-sama wants to be confessed to". Those are some broken amoral lovable idiots.

Ah, in other words you just made an assumption. I already made my case for why they are not the same, so I don't need to repeat it.

last edited at Feb 12, 2019 7:39AM

BugDevil, you combined a post from me and one from random—the “one entirely practical difference” one is random’s. So yes, I absolutely do recognize my own post.

Nobody is taking “offense” at the word “broken,” but as your latest post makes clear, you use words in some idiosyncratic ways, and believe it or not, I am trying to understand what you’re trying to say.

“Broken” has a strong negative connotation, as does “abnormal.” You seem to be arguing that the characters are not comparable because they are different in kind, where one character is “normal” (Kase) and the other is not (Nikaidou), rather than different in the degree of their presentation.

I think if the scenes in Kase-san were drawn with an equal number of hearts floating around and “ba-dumps” all over the place and sweat beads on the thirsty lesbians with no change in the actual behavior, there would be very little difference at all between the two characters.

I'm sorry, is this the first time someone has quoted two posts around you? Yes, I quoted both of you, but I addressed you seperately... I'm having genuine trouble seeing your issue. You even made me double check and all, but nope, nothing unusual. I asked if you recognize your own post, because if you do, why does it bother you that I also quoted someone else afterwards? I didn't mix your quotes or anything. I didn't even mix my replies. My alternatives are limited to quoting your names or double posting. Pick your poison.

Certainly, you can give it a negative connotation. But just like people say "Wow, that's crazy" and don't literally mean someone's crazy (remember that little hoot?), this was not meant to disparage the character. They are simply different to that degree. I expressed that more strongly than you two apparently were comfortable with, so my bad.

Yes, if you completely changed the way she acted (making her sweat intensely) and exaggerated her emotions (more heart pounding and hearts) you'd get to the same state as Nikaido. Who would have thought?

last edited at Feb 12, 2019 8:51AM

I also take issue with the word "abnormal". In the context of LGBT, it's a strongly negative word.

I also take issue with the word "abnormal". In the context of LGBT, it's a strongly negative word.

Urgh. I didn't use it in context of her sexual orientation though. Can we please not have this "heteronormativity" conversation again?

Depends on whether you insist on your abnormal opinion.