I can't really say it often enough, but I don't feel any chemistry between Yuu and Sayaka. Like at all. You can force the connection in there if you really tried, but it's kinda obvious that Sayaka barely acknowledges her with or without Touko's existence.
The snarky couple thing only works if they have anything in common or even something opposite that attracts them to each other. With their personalities and guarded attitudes I simply can't even imagine a scenario where they would ever get together if Touko never existed (okay, I actually can always cook up some crazy plot, but that would be brutally farfetched).

I'd say their "professionally distant" relationship is largely because of Touko, though. Sayaka's at least vaguely suspicious and jealous of whatever's going on between Yuu and Touko, while Yuu's trying to keep it secret from, y'know, Touko's BFF who's also rather perceptive and smart to boot.
A certain chilly awkwardness is somewhat inevitable there.

That aside I've always had the impression that they like and respect each other well enough as people, it's just the whole mess around Touko results in uncomfortable tensions and them kind of avoiding direct contact with each other. If you removed those complications they'd likely get along just fine.

I'd say their "professionally distant" relationship is largely because of Touko, though. Sayaka's at least vaguely suspicious and jealous of whatever's going on between Yuu and Touko, while Yuu's trying to keep it secret from, y'know, Touko's BFF who's also rather perceptive and smart to boot.
A certain chilly awkwardness is somewhat inevitable there.

That aside I've always had the impression that they like and respect each other well enough as people, it's just the whole mess around Touko results in uncomfortable tensions and them kind of avoiding direct contact with each other. If you removed those complications they'd likely get along just fine.

I can accept that their interactions are more strained and antagonistic (at least from Sayaka's direction) thanks to Touko being in the middle, but Yuu has never shown any negative reaction to Sayaka. Even when Sayaka confessed that she loved Touko it just made Yuu smile. That is not the reaction of someone who really feels threatened or even remotely troubled by a declaration of war. Which makes me feel like Yuu doesn't really have any negative emotions towards Sayaka in general. She seems completely dispassionate about her in fact. Just another senpai she tries to get along with out of necessity as a part of the student council.

Sayaka might be icier towards Yuu thanks to her taking Touko's attention, but Sayaka seems to not put much faith or interest in kouhais in general. She really is the high and mighty senpai. The distance would exist even if Touko wasn't there is my point.

Hmmm... But this topic tickles my writer's heart. It's almost like a challenge... I'll think about it some more. Maybe I can actually think of a scenario where this pairing could work out (probably not). lol

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 8:02AM

People have so much ideas, I can see writers in here too, I wish some of you can write Yagakimi ff instead lolz...

Edit: i feel tired reading all the labels tbh. Idk why people was so addicted to label. When in fact Nakatani is obviously not bothered by it.

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 8:41AM

... Good god, that was a strange conversation/argument to read through... paranoid logic is... hard to follow, and I'll leave it at that for now to limit how off-topic I get.

As for this chapter... I'm sure someone's said this already by now, but it sort of seems like Touko dating Sayaka just got at least partially set up. Got into a debate about whether it would be consistent of Touko's character to do so last night with a friend on Discord. "Fun" times.

This might be the first chapter of actual substance I didn't know how to feel about. Though admittedly, more because of the implications it has on future chapters than because of any one thing in the chapter itself. Was hoping my concerns would've been voiced and addressed by now in the comments thread (that happens fairly frequently), and I'd just have to go enough pages back to find it and be able to relax, but instead I got... I'm not sure how to describe what I just read through...

Edit: Missed a few posts typing out this one... for the record, I think people are going a little overboard with the labeling.

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 8:47AM

People have so much ideas, I can see writers in here too, I wish some of you can write Yagakimi ff instead lolz...

Edit: i feel tired reading all the labels tbh. Idk why people was so addicted to label. When in fact Nakatani is obviously not bothered by it.

Actually, the labels discourse is a form of fanfic.

(Or since labels seem to be so important, maybe “fan non-fiction” would be more precise.)

Actually, the labels discourse is a form of fanfic.

(Or since labels seem to be so important, maybe “fan non-fiction” would be more precise.)

I hope the bit about labels being important was sarcastic because over half the ones being discussed have basically zero plot relevance.

People have so much ideas, I can see writers in here too, I wish some of you can write Yagakimi ff instead lolz...

Edit: i feel tired reading all the labels tbh. Idk why people was so addicted to label. When in fact Nakatani is obviously not bothered by it.

That sounds like way too much work. Emulating Nakatani's style is like asking for monkeys to write Shakespeare.

Pretty much... It's almost certain that Nakatani just wrote three lesbian girls with emotional issues (heck sayaka is as standard gay as it gets). That's all there is to it lol

Actually, the labels discourse is a form of fanfic.

(Or since labels seem to be so important, maybe “fan non-fiction” would be more precise.)

I hope the bit about labels being important was sarcastic because over half the ones being discussed have basically zero plot relevance.

You have grasped my point.

People have so much ideas, I can see writers in here too, I wish some of you can write Yagakimi ff instead lolz...

Edit: i feel tired reading all the labels tbh. Idk why people was so addicted to label. When in fact Nakatani is obviously not bothered by it.

That sounds like way too much work. Emulating Nakatani's style is like asking for monkeys to write Shakespeare.

Pretty much... It's almost certain that Nakatani just wrote three lesbian girls with emotional issues (heck sayaka is as standard gay as it gets). That's all there is to it lol

As another writer, I second this first bit. I tend to think I'm not a terrible author, but YagaKimi set the bar so high I legitimately can't even consider trying to write fanfics for it because I know I'll screw things up.

As for the second bit, pretty sure Yuu isn't a standard lesbian, but Touko and Sayaka definitely are. I'm too labeled out to go into detail on what I think Yuu is today, maybe after some sleep...

That sounds like way too much work. Emulating Nakatani's style is like asking for monkeys to write Shakespeare.

Pretty much... It's almost certain that Nakatani just wrote three lesbian girls with emotional issues (heck sayaka is as standard gay as it gets). That's all there is to it lol

As another writer, I second this first bit. I tend to think I'm not a terrible author, but YagaKimi set the bar so high I legitimately can't even consider trying to write fanfics for it because I know I'll screw things up.

As for the second bit, pretty sure Yuu isn't a standard lesbian, but Touko and Sayaka definitely are. I'm too labeled out to go into detail on what I think Yuu is today, maybe after some sleep...

Well I am a terrible author and I can still see that it's impossible. I'm happy to see that even veterans are shaking in their boots at the idea of writing something on par with YagaKimi lol

Most people who want to label her beyond lesbian call her demisexual. I think that is pretty extra, but if we had to put more stickers on Yuu that one's probably the least inaccurate. ┐(´∀｀)┌

That sounds like way too much work. Emulating Nakatani's style is like asking for monkeys to write Shakespeare.

Pretty much... It's almost certain that Nakatani just wrote three lesbian girls with emotional issues (heck sayaka is as standard gay as it gets). That's all there is to it lol

As another writer, I second this first bit. I tend to think I'm not a terrible author, but YagaKimi set the bar so high I legitimately can't even consider trying to write fanfics for it because I know I'll screw things up.

As for the second bit, pretty sure Yuu isn't a standard lesbian, but Touko and Sayaka definitely are. I'm too labeled out to go into detail on what I think Yuu is today, maybe after some sleep...

Well I am a terrible author and I can still see that it's impossible. I'm happy to see that even veterans are shaking in their boots at the idea of writing something on par with YagaKimi lol

Most people who want to label her beyond lesbian call her demisexual. I think that is pretty extra, but if we had to put more stickers on Yuu that one's probably the least inaccurate. ┐(´∀｀)┌

I'm technically not a writer, but I did invent some stories which I only kept in my mind (only some of them are, in addition to that, also on my grandparents' computer), but I see why people find it impossible to emulate Nakatani, considering just how well written and complex YagaKimi is. Heck, the main reason why I won't even attempt to try to make fanfic isn't because I find it impossible to emulate Nakatani (I do find it impossible, it just isn't the main reason why I won't try), but it's actually the fact that I'm better at making up storylines for mapping series and inventing fictional worlds with histories of their own that's the makn reason.

It's a pity that such a beautiful manga Yagate kimi ni naru has so much toxic people in discussion thread. Successfully we detected many of them, knowing now which comments are not for reading :)

This discussion thread was, until recently, quite notable for its lack of toxicity. An influx of posters who feel compelled to make personal remarks about others rather than about the series itself have changed that considerably.

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 10:22AM

It's a pity that such a beautiful manga Yagate kimi ni naru has so much toxic people in discussion thread. Successfully we detected many of them, knowing now which comments are not for reading :)

Uh... I think that all of those who made toxic comments also made non-toxic ones as well, so I find this comment slightly on the nose.

As for this chapter... I'm sure someone's said this already by now, but it sort of seems like Touko dating Sayaka just got at least partially set up. Got into a debate about whether it would be consistent of Touko's character to do so last night with a friend on Discord. "Fun" times.

This might be the first chapter of actual substance I didn't know how to feel about.

That's what I've been trying to say, but people seem to not want to believe there is a reasonable likelihood of Touko and Sayaka dating, even if only for a while. Nakatani is giving A LOT of positive attention to Sayaka for a lot of chapters now, to the point where a lot of readers feel confused about who they should be cheering for here. Can't be a coincidence.

That's what I've been trying to say, but people seem to not want to believe there is a reasonable likelihood of Touko and Sayaka dating, even if only for a while. Nakatani is giving A LOT of positive attention to Sayaka for a lot of chapters now, to the point where a lot of readers feel confused about who they should be cheering for here. Can't be a coincidence.

You should name yourself sayaka_wins already.
At least then we can be sure Nakatani won't actually do it :P

That's what I've been trying to say, but people seem to not want to believe there is a reasonable likelihood of Touko and Sayaka dating, even if only for a while. Nakatani is giving A LOT of positive attention to Sayaka for a lot of chapters now, to the point where a lot of readers feel confused about who they should be cheering for here. Can't be a coincidence.

You should name yourself sayaka_wins already.
At least then we can be sure Nakatani won't actually do it :P

We're only 5 days into 2019, and we already have a great contender for #JokeOfTheYear

Matsuri is still closer to my heart, and more relatable. I'd rather HaruMatsu to happen than ToukoSayaka lol

Matsuri is still closer to my heart, and more relatable. I'd rather HaruMatsu to happen than ToukoSayaka lol

Welp. One of those at least has a 10% chance of happening. So you took the safer bet lol

As for this chapter... I'm sure someone's said this already by now, but it sort of seems like Touko dating Sayaka just got at least partially set up. Got into a debate about whether it would be consistent of Touko's character to do so last night with a friend on Discord. "Fun" times.

This might be the first chapter of actual substance I didn't know how to feel about.

That's what I've been trying to say, but people seem to not want to believe there is a reasonable likelihood of Touko and Sayaka dating, even if only for a while. Nakatani is giving A LOT of positive attention to Sayaka for a lot of chapters now, to the point where a lot of readers feel confused about who they should be cheering for here. Can't be a coincidence.

But there’s a lot of fundamental counter-evidence to consider. Touko is not going to begin “dating” anyone (in a casual sense), and that’s not what Sayaka is asking for anyway: “I want to be your girlfriend.”

Touko, so far, has refused to accept the love of another person, for all the familiar reasons we have discussed at length. She has given love, as she understands it, only to Yuu, and Yuu’s reciprocating that love has sparked the break that weighs so heavily on her.

In the unlikely event that Touko’s response to Sayaka’s confession would be, “Hey, I’m having fun trying a bunch of new things, like the acting class and expressing my emotions to my friends, so why not give the dating scene a whirl with my BFF, Sayaka?”, that really would be a fundamental change in her character, one not organic to the themes and plot dynamics as they have developed methodically and at length in the series so far.

The only consistent motivation for Touko to enter a romantic relationship with Sayaka would be for Touko to have accepted a fundamental change in her own attitude toward love (this part is entirely possible and indeed what the whole series has been building toward) AND to discover that her true emotional bond is with Sayaka, not with Yuu.

And that last part is what the series has not at all been building toward so far. It could theoretically take that turn, but that would be massive shift in focus for a story that has been remarkably focused on developing in an entirely different direction.

While I am not nearly as enamored with making predictions about future developments as some people seem to be, I do think that Sayaka’s confession is much more likely to be the catalyst for Touko’s self-reflection about her view of love and her feelings for Yuu.

The further fact is that to accept Sayaka’s feelings after rejecting Yuu’s sheds a extremely negative light on her entire previous relationship with Yuu, the inherently problematic terms of which (“let me love you, but don’t fall in love with me”) were mitigated only by the apparent sincerity of Touko’s affection for Yuu.

Tl;dr: Only Yuu makes Touko’s heart go “ba-dump,” with no evidence of any change so far.

EDIT: And the recent attention given to Sayaka’s character without corresponding attention to the possibility of Touko accepting her feelings suggests that it’s more about setting up the Sayaka spin-off than it is the start of a fundamental change in the trajectory of the main series.

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 12:59PM

EDIT: And the recent attention given to Sayaka’s character without corresponding attention to the possibility of Touko accepting her feelings suggests that it’s more about setting up the Sayaka spin-off than it is the start of a fundamental change in the trajectory of the main series.

It feels like it's just the conclusion of her arc honestly. For the lack of a better term "The final hurdle" for pretty much both of them before having the realizations they need to advance.

I'm a lot more worried about how Yuu is going to get out of this. I didn't see anybody talk about those first two pages. Seems she really is in denial. The line about being able to do what they want now that Touko and Sayaka are gone rings a bit more heavy than it is probably meant to be...

Yuu needs to get a life and have a purpose other than helping Touko out so I hope she does.

I'm a lot more worried about how Yuu is going to get out of this. I didn't see anybody talk about those first two pages. Seems she really is in denial. The line about being able to do what they want now that Touko and Sayaka are gone rings a bit more heavy than it is probably meant to be...

Well, nothing can happen until Touko changes, so until she does, Yuu is facing an emotional dead end. Her apparent denial is of a piece with her steadiness and reliability. She’s said her piece, and having been rejected, to her that’s that.

In other words, she’s not going to “move on” in the sense of looking for a new love object; she’s retreating to her belief that she won’t know love.

All it will take is an open-hearted Touko in the equipment shed to set things aright.

I'm a lot more worried about how Yuu is going to get out of this. I didn't see anybody talk about those first two pages. Seems she really is in denial. The line about being able to do what they want now that Touko and Sayaka are gone rings a bit more heavy than it is probably meant to be...

Well, nothing can happen until Touko changes, so until she does, Yuu is facing an emotional dead end. Her apparent denial is of a piece with her steadiness and reliability. She’s said her piece, and having been rejected, to her that’s that.

In other words, she’s not going to “move on” in the sense of looking for a new love object; she’s retreating to her belief that she won’t know love.

All it will take is an open-hearted Touko in the equipment shed to set things aright.

That's fair enough, but do you really believe that's how it will go down?
That kind of passivity doesn't suit this stage of the story. If anything both sides need to learn something right now. Just waiting for Touko to get over herself seems a tad too simplistic. This is the point where some character should break Yuu out of her protective shell and make her realize that she is actually heartbroken. Yuu has reached a point where she alone cannot move on, but if Touko is the one to get her out of there it will entirely lack the necessary power of that change.

Basically what I mean is that while Touko gets shaken up by Sayaka, Yuu needs to realize that she is hurting and find the resolve to confront Touko again even if she is not ready to accept her! Only a proactive Yuu can ever find happiness, this is what this story established so far. Whenever Yuu hesitates or stays passive she hurts herself.

I hope that made even a shred of sense.

I'm a lot more worried about how Yuu is going to get out of this. I didn't see anybody talk about those first two pages. Seems she really is in denial. The line about being able to do what they want now that Touko and Sayaka are gone rings a bit more heavy than it is probably meant to be...

Well, nothing can happen until Touko changes, so until she does, Yuu is facing an emotional dead end. Her apparent denial is of a piece with her steadiness and reliability. She’s said her piece, and having been rejected, to her that’s that.

In other words, she’s not going to “move on” in the sense of looking for a new love object; she’s retreating to her belief that she won’t know love.

All it will take is an open-hearted Touko in the equipment shed to set things aright.

That's fair enough, but do you really believe that's how it will go down?
That kind of passivity doesn't suit this stage of the story. If anything both sides need to learn something right now. Just waiting for Touko to get over herself seems a tad too simplistic. This is the point where some character should break Yuu out of her protective shell and make her realize that she is actually heartbroken. Yuu has reached a point where she alone cannot move on, but if Touko is the one to get her out of there it will entirely lack the necessary power of that change.

Basically what I mean is that while Touko gets shaken up by Sayaka, Yuu needs to realize that she is hurting and find the resolve to confront Touko again even if she is not ready to accept her! Only a proactive Yuu can ever find happiness, this is what this story established so far. Whenever Yuu hesitates or stays passive she hurts herself.

I hope that made even a shred of sense.

No, you're basically right. But however it happens, the real fundamental change needs to be Touko's. Yuu actually has been pretty proactive in challenging Touko's negative ideas, in a low-key and gentle way to be sure, but she keeps hitting that stone wall inside Touko.

Both Touko and Yuu need to change from where they are right now, but for Yuu that amounts to the need for some emotional TLC to arrive at a new understanding of her own feelings, while Touko needs to throw over one of the basic principles of her self-identity. That's one of the things I love about Yuu--she doesn't seem to doubt that she's worthy to love and be loved (although she wonders at first what someone great like Touko sees in her), she just doesn't really grasp what that actual experience is supposed to be like.

That's one thing therapy teaches you--coming to understand and contextualize your own feelings is useful and necessary (Yuu), but actually changing long-established negative patterns of thought and behavior (Touko) involves a lot more heavy lifting in the emotional work department.

That's fair enough, but do you really believe that's how it will go down?
That kind of passivity doesn't suit this stage of the story. If anything both sides need to learn something right now. Just waiting for Touko to get over herself seems a tad too simplistic. This is the point where some character should break Yuu out of her protective shell and make her realize that she is actually heartbroken. Yuu has reached a point where she alone cannot move on, but if Touko is the one to get her out of there it will entirely lack the necessary power of that change.

Basically what I mean is that while Touko gets shaken up by Sayaka, Yuu needs to realize that she is hurting and find the resolve to confront Touko again even if she is not ready to accept her! Only a proactive Yuu can ever find happiness, this is what this story established so far. Whenever Yuu hesitates or stays passive she hurts herself.

I hope that made even a shred of sense.

I would make the same conclusion from a different direction. After the latest chapter Touko is in a position to judge her relationship with Yuu a painful failure or lost cause that she has to leave behind, and Yuu is the only person who can do anything about that. Touko has never failed with Sayaka.

Rei for MVP, that's still my team.

last edited at Jan 5, 2019 2:09PM