Look, the plain fact is that there is no evidence for Yuu being aromantic or asexual. Especially not after the more recent chapters. You can believe what you want, but the opposite is always more likely and at least aromanticism is debunked.

This is first and foremost a story about misconceptions about love, not representation of anything specific.

Who are you responding to? If you are responding to me, I don't think Yuu is aro or ace. I'm simply disagreeing with the idea that Nakatani isn't LGBT conscious at all. I think the manga presents plenty of evidence contrary to this.

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 7:15AM

Who are you responding to? If you are responding to me, I don't think Yuu is aro or ace. I'm simply disagreeing with the idea that Nakatani isn't LGBT conscious at all. I think the manga presents plenty of evidence contrary to this.

The people who said it of course. I cant be bothered to quote them all.

It is good writing, but it's also making a clear statement. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Sayaka's entire backstory is kind of a take down of the old S-class stories. Heck she even threw in some scenes to emphasize that Sayaka's attraction to girls is physical in nature, which is something that even some modern Yuri still don't do. I just find it hard to believe that at least part of Nakatani's motivation for Sayaka's arc wasn't to create a realistic teenage lesbian character. Like I don't think Nakatani is some LGBT scholar or anything, but judging from the manga it does seem that she has at least some awareness of these issues. The scene that most convinces me of this is actually not a Sayaka scene, it's when Yuu's dad makes that little joke about how shocked he'd be if she dated a girl and Yuu gets this brief downtrodden look. To me that demonstrates some awareness of how casual homophobia works.
P.S. I'm really getting tired of auto correct changing Yuu's name to you.

(Sorry for butting in)
With the way you put it, it is literally impossible to write a realistic lesbian character without making a statement. Rather than not being mutually exclusive you made them synonymous, which is also wrong.

Nakatani writes the characters realistically and a realistic lesbian deals with these kinds of things, but that doesn't exactly mean she is trying to make a message about the situation of lesbians in general. Some stuff just comes with the territory.

That bit about Yuu and her father for example, I did not interpret as a reaction towards the idea of her father being uncomfortable with a girlfriend, but rather Yuu just being troubled by Rei's suggestion itself. Just remember, when you go in reading with preconceived notions, you often see things that aren't there.

Now to be fair, I'm ambivalent towards the idea of Nakatani trying to send a message about lesbians in this story, that might be the case. It's definitiely not the point of the story though.

PS: Physical attraction in Yuri is far from rare these days.

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 7:30AM

With the way you put it, it is literally impossible to write a realistic lesbian character without making a statement. Rather than not being mutually exclusive, you made them synonymous, which is also wrong.

Nakatani writes the characters realistically and a realistic lesbian deals with these kinds of things, but that doesn't exactly mean she is trying to make a message about the situation of lesbians in general. Some stuff just comes with the territory.

@KawaiiSuika, this is basically what I was trying to say and I perhaps put it wrong. When I said Nakatani isn't LGBT conscious I meant that she is more concerned with writing a compelling and grounded story than making statements. At the very least she hasn't mentioned anything in any of her interviews that I've read to indicate that she wants this to be about LGBT issues in real life. Not to mention that there are a lot of more pressing issues in Japan about LGBT teens that she hasn't really touched.

Now to be fair, I'm ambivalent towards the idea of Nakatani trying to send a message about lesbians in this story, that might be the case. It's definitiely not the point of the story though.

PS: Physical attraction in Yuri is far from rare these days.

Where did I say it was the point of the story? I'll say it again. I'm simply disagreeing with the claim that she isn't conscious of LGBT issues, I think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that she is at least a little aware of them. I think it'd be pretty hard for a Yuri writer not to be nowadays. Yes, Yuri leads are often shown physically attracted to each other nowadays, but I haven't seen too many of them were a girl is shown to fall for another girl based on appearance alone and have it be taken seriously.

P.S Writing realistic lesbians is absolutely making a statement.

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 7:48AM

Now to be fair, I'm ambivalent towards the idea of Nakatani trying to send a message about lesbians in this story, that might be the case. It's definitely not the point of the story though.

PS: Physical attraction in Yuri is far from rare these days.

Where did I say it was the point of the story? I'll say it again. I'm simply disagreeing with the claim that she isn't conscious of LGBT issues, I think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that she is at least a little aware of them. I think it'd be pretty hard for a Yuri writer not to be nowadays. Yes, Yuri leads are often shown physically attracted to each other nowadays, but I haven't seen too many of them were a girl is shown to fall for another girl based on appearance alone and have it be taken seriously.

P.S Writing realistic lesbians is absolutely making a statement.

Writing realistic characters is just good writing. If you can provide a link to something pro LGBT Nakatani has said, then you can have a stronger argument.

Writing realistic characters is just good writing. If you can provide a link to something pro LGBT Nakatani has said, then you can have a stronger argument.

How about that time she wrote a Yuri manga? On a more serious note, she has an interview were she mentioned including male characters specifically to emphasize how the feelings between the girls are real.

Beyond that writing a story IS making a statement. Every decision an author makes in their story says something about how they think. Sayaka's subplot to me says that Nakatani thinks love between two girls is just as valid as love between a girl and a boy.

Where did I say it was the point of the story? I'll say it again. I'm simply disagreeing with the claim that she isn't conscious of LGBT issues, I think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that she is at least a little aware of them. I think it'd be pretty hard for a Yuri writer not to be nowadays. Yes, Yuri leads are often shown physically attracted to each other nowadays, but I haven't seen too many of them were a girl is shown to fall for another girl based on appearance alone and have it be taken seriously.

P.S Writing realistic lesbians is absolutely making a statement.

Rather it is not a focus at all is probably more accurate. You may have wanted to just disagree with that point, but in turn you made a claim that is equally wrong.

Sayaka didn't just fall for Touko based on appearance alone anyway (initial attraction =/= romantic feelings), though I guess that discussion has been done to death by now. At least I assume you meant Sayaka, because this applies to no other character in this story.
I can think of quite a lot yuri stories that start out with "She is totally my type" or "She is so pretty" etc. showing that the characters initial interest comes from the appearance.

No it's not. That is ludicrous. If I portray a realistic fight scene, do I make a statement on fights in general? Nope. Replicating things as they are in reality can stir conversation by itself and often that is done with the intend of conveying a message, but it's not a necessity. Nakatani tells a story of a person in that particular situation, but if she wanted to make a statement on lesbians then she completely failed. She barely addresses any lesbian issues aside from some people thinking it's a phase or it being looked at as weird (which is the most basic of all yuri tropes).

What Nakatani actually makes a statement on is the perception of love and feelings and misunderstanding them. That theme goes through all the conflicts (be they gay or straight btw, just look at Akari). The sheer difference between the two should show you what is a real statement and which isn't. Though like I said, it wouldn't be a problem if she actually did want to make one on lesbianism. At least she isn't looking away from the topic with her portrayal.

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 8:33AM

No it's not. That is ludicrous. If I portray a realistic fight scene, do I make a statement on fights in general? Nope. Replicating things as they are in reality can stir conversation by itself and often that is done with the intend of conveying a message, but it's not a necessity. Nakatani tells a story of a person in that particular situation, but if she wanted to make a statement on lesbians then she completely failed. She barely addresses any lesbian issues aside from some people thinking it's a phase or it being looked at as weird (which is the most basic of all yuri tropes).

If you make a realistic fight scene, it does send some messages to the audience actually. It tells me that you have some knowledge of what real fights look like, it tells me that you wanted to make a realistic fight. I could even infer some things that may not be entirely correct but aren't inconsistent with what I saw. I could infer that you like realistic fight scenes, heck I could even infer that you think realistic fight scenes are superior (I could be wrong in that case but that really isn't the point). Besides gathering author intent is only the least interesting, but still important, part of interpreting a work of art
anyway. Any good work of art leaves room for the audience to interact with it, and Bloom into You is a good work of art.
As an aside I, once again, wasn't saying Nakatani is some scholar of LGBT issues. Yes, the actual LGBT discussion in the manga is pretty bare bones, but I wasn't making a point about that. Literally all I was saying is that it is there.

If you make a realistic fight scene, it does send some messages to the audience actually. It tells me that you have some knowledge of what real fights look like, it tells me that you wanted to make a realistic fight. I could even infer some things that may not be entirely correct but aren't inconsistent with what I saw. I could infer that you like realistic fight scenes, heck I could even infer that you think realistic fight scenes are superior (I could be wrong in that case but that really isn't the point). Besides gathering author intent is only the least interesting, but still important, part of interpreting a work of art
anyway. Any good work of art leaves room for the audience to interact with it, and Bloom into You is a good work of art.
As an aside I, once again, wasn't saying Nakatani is some scholar of LGBT issues. Yes, the actual LGBT discussion in the manga is pretty bare bones, but I wasn't making a point about that. Literally all I was saying is that it is there.

You seem to be conflating a message with simply using a certain structure or plot elements. A message/statement is supposed to intentionally convey something to the reader. Using a story tool or a factual portrayal of something is not a message. If it were, everything would become a message and thus make real statements pointless.
And you can guess authorial intent, but if your evidence is lacking then it's better not to claim it as fact. A statement is almost always woven into the themes and plot. It merely existing is not a statement in itself.

Once again, you fail to see that I'm not talking about Nakatani's LGBT knowledge anymore. What I have been rebutting from the start is that you said a realistic portrayal of lesbians equals a statement. Please understand that the focus of my replies is on that and not whatever your previous conversation was about.

Writing realistic characters is just good writing. If you can provide a link to something pro LGBT Nakatani has said, then you can have a stronger argument.

How about that time she wrote a Yuri manga? On a more serious note, she has an interview were she mentioned including male characters specifically to emphasize how the feelings between the girls are real.

Beyond that writing a story IS making a statement. Every decision an author makes in their story says something about how they think. Sayaka's subplot to me says that Nakatani thinks love between two girls is just as valid as love between a girl and a boy.

I view that as grounded writing. If the manga feels as real as possible: the impact is greater.

While writing does indicate something about the author, that doesn't change anything about the intent of the work. If she wanted to make a statement then the characters orientations would be more prevalent. Yuu and Touko could have gotten together and then deal with coming out instead of having the main focus be Touko's problems, the sensei having some sort of problem with her job because she has a girlfriend.

If in all her interviews she has never said 'I wrote this to better represent LGBT people' and the manga isn't saying much about LGBT people outside of what directly applies to the characters, then she's not trying to make a statement. In fact, thinking about it, you said 'Every decision an author makes in their story says something about how they think'. It has nothing to do with what she's trying to convey.

It wouldn't even be too hard for Nakatani to have turned this into LGBT commentary. Just having Yuu look up something like: 'is there something wrong with me if I've never fallen in love?' and finding a website about being asexual/aromantic would be enough to make me think it's a statement.

This is beginning to feel futile. Y'all seem to think I'm saying something that I'm not. Anyway I gotta go to bed.

This is beginning to feel futile. Y'all seem to think I'm saying something that I'm not. Anyway, I gotta go to bed.

Basically, that, if Nakatani wanted to make a statement, she's doing it wrong.

This is beginning to feel futile. Y'all seem to think I'm saying something that I'm not. Anyway I gotta go to bed.

Unless we take your literal quote... literally?

Episode 10's out and it was pretty decent.
That scene at the cafe was always one of my favorites. Even everyone around Yuu realizes how much she changed after just one conversation.

Then the scene at.... Doctor Donuts. That was the best U n f a i r in the series. It can only be eclipsed by S e n p a i Y o u J e r k.

A little sad about how they did the ending though. I guess the overlap was unavoidable due to how the pages where done, but eh. Also they didn't let some moments linger and cut them off really fast.
Phew, it's hard work coming up with criticisms each week!

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 4:44PM

Although I find that a vote like that is always biased to more current shows because of emotional investment.

I think there's some truth to that but considering the top 10, that doesn't seem like a major problem here. The only bias is fujos are too stronk lmao

1. Banana Fish
2. idolish7
3. DoriFest! R
4. SoraYori
5. Osomatsu-san S2
6. YagaKimi
7. Houseki no Kuni
8. AOT 3
9. Yowapedal Glory Line
10. Hataraku Saibou

You'd probably not see it in the top spots (those fans are dedicated), but in the middle section. Still a pretty interesting line-up. We got everything from Romance, to sports, to Shounen anime here. AOT 4 will probably be top 3 in next years list tho.

YagaKimi already made a big impact, but I suppose that's natural considering the manga was already popular.

I hope those top 10 haven't changed since, because I plan to make a meme out of this, and it would be really embarrasing if YagaKimi weren't 6th at the time I made that meme. -.-

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 1:50PM

I hope those top 10 haven't changed since, because I plan to make a meme out of this, and it would be really embarrasing if YagaKimi weren't 6th at the time I made that meme. -.-

It's currently 5th.

I think it's totally fine to read characters in particular ways and give them a label(s) so that you can better relate to or better understand the story from your individual point of view. It seems like a lot of people here relate to either Maki or Yuu in terms of being aro/ace so I'd say that's pretty cool.

And anyway, it's none of my business how others read characters as. I'm just here to dispel any potential misconceptions about aromanticism and asexuality.

This episode has made me glad that they didn't do three chapters per episode for the rest of it. The episode isn't bad, but it does feel a bit more rushed than other episodes

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 2:35PM

I hope those top 10 haven't changed since, because I plan to make a meme out of this, and it would be really embarrasing if YagaKimi weren't 6th at the time I made that meme. -.-

It's currently 5th.

Well, considering I decided not to make that meme video today, that's actually good news. BTW, where can I find those rankings or whatever?
EDIT: Also, sorry for being so spammy before my 5-day-long self-punishment. I'd say where you can find more info on that, but then this would be spam, and, also I'd be accused of advertising my posts, so it's better to play it safe.

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 2:56PM

Writing realistic characters is just good writing. If you can provide a link to something pro LGBT Nakatani has said, then you can have a stronger argument.

How about that time she wrote a Yuri manga? On a more serious note, she has an interview were she mentioned including male characters specifically to emphasize how the feelings between the girls are real.

Beyond that writing a story IS making a statement. Every decision an author makes in their story says something about how they think. Sayaka's subplot to me says that Nakatani thinks love between two girls is just as valid as love between a girl and a boy.

I view that as grounded writing. If the manga feels as real as possible: the impact is greater.

While writing does indicate something about the author, that doesn't change anything about the intent of the work. If she wanted to make a statement then the characters orientations would be more prevalent. Yuu and Touko could have gotten together and then deal with coming out instead of having the main focus be Touko's problems, the sensei having some sort of problem with her job because she has a girlfriend.

If in all her interviews she has never said 'I wrote this to better represent LGBT people' and the manga isn't saying much about LGBT people outside of what directly applies to the characters, then she's not trying to make a statement. In fact, thinking about it, you said 'Every decision an author makes in their story says something about how they think'. It has nothing to do with what she's trying to convey.

It wouldn't even be too hard for Nakatani to have turned this into LGBT commentary. Just having Yuu look up something like: 'is there something wrong with me if I've never fallen in love?' and finding a website about being asexual/aromantic would be enough to make me think it's a statement.

Give it up. You lost this argument pages ago.

I hope those top 10 haven't changed since, because I plan to make a meme out of this, and it would be really embarrasing if YagaKimi weren't 6th at the time I made that meme. -.-

It's currently 5th.

Well, considering I decided not to make that meme video today, that's actually good news. BTW, where can I find those rankings or whatever?
EDIT: Also, sorry for being so spammy before my 5-day-long self-punishment. I'd say where you can find more info on that, but then this would be spam, and, also I'd be accused of advertising my posts, so it's better to play it safe.

https://best100.animefestival.jp/

I hope those top 10 haven't changed since, because I plan to make a meme out of this, and it would be really embarrasing if YagaKimi weren't 6th at the time I made that meme. -.-

It's currently 5th.

Well, considering I decided not to make that meme video today, that's actually good news. BTW, where can I find those rankings or whatever?
EDIT: Also, sorry for being so spammy before my 5-day-long self-punishment. I'd say where you can find more info on that, but then this would be spam, and, also I'd be accused of advertising my posts, so it's better to play it safe.

https://best100.animefestival.jp/

Thanks

I was a little bit concerned about having 3 chapter's in one episode instead of 2 chapter's worth, but it turn out good.

Also, I watched the episode, and really enjoyed it, although it did feel a tiny bit rushed, but, over all, it was pretty good and was keeping to the manga. Now, I've noticed this before, but I somehow always forgot to mention in previous episodes: Koyomi has a deeper voice than what I imagined while reading the manga. The real problem wasn't with the episode itself, but the site I was using, as I litterally had to reload the page 5 times in order to watch it to the end.
On a barely-can-even-count-as-even-a-tiny-bit-related-note, during the "wholes" created by the long loading times, I got some weird ideas, but afterwards, when I think of sharing them here, my thoughts were: "No, BV. Nooo. No. Don't. Don't do another one of those crazy ideas that got you into deep trouble in the first place. Noooo. Nope. Stop.".

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 4:14PM

https://best100.animefestival.jp/

Banana Fish is way more popular than I thought.
YagaKimi jumping spots is great, though any more advances will be tough.

Episode 10 was cute, but… the "Riko trying to kiss Miyako while she's on the phone" scene was funnier in the manga. That's all I have to say.