That's the problem with anime and manga; at their best, it's the best medium but, you have to wade through large amounts of crap to find it.

Now, why the fuck do I agree with that statement?

EDIT: Somehow I chuckled at this post of mine.

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 11:08AM

That's it though. It's a brute force method. It's so indelicate and unsubtle, it just feels cheap. While I have faith that Nakatani could handle it well, it would definitely have less of an emotional impact than most of the other methods that I can think of.

For me, this is the kind of writing a typical yuri manga would use and this isn't a typical yuri.

I mean... yeah. That's what I said.

Er...You can actually have consensual sex with people you like as friends or fellow human beings, treat them very well and not be in love with them. I just don't judge romantic love as an inherently superior expression of sexuality. But by all means, you are free to judge that kind of thought as "terrible" and "numb" I guess.

Not my point. I didn't have much time yesterday, so I cut myself short. You are acting like a caricature of what you think people like that talk like. Of course there are people who value short-term pleasure over emotional stability. They just don't talk like that.
And you misrepresented those studies, either to serve your needs or because you didn't bother actually reading it. Don't think everyone just eats up your words lol

Regardless, all I did was point out that it's common for people to fall in love due to repeated encounters like this. That's what I find interesting about Bloom Into You, in the sense that, it's the inverted process to how things are usually shown. I think falling in love before you kissed/touched someone or falling in love because you did are just different paths to the same emotion. In cultures with arranged marriages for example, the latter is the norm.

It has nothing to do with the the kissing or touching (or at the very least that's the least relevant part). That is what you projected on to it. It couldn't be more obvious that the kissing wasn't the trigger at any point. They obviously fell for each other due to aspects of their personality they liked about each other. In fact it's kind of repeated over and over. The physical aspect is basically just a manifestation of them liking each other... as it should be. I mean ffs, how many kisses were there before Yuu confessed? 3? 4? How many scenes were there where Yuu or Touko were obviously love struck without any physical intimacy happening? Countless.

Don't you dare undercut how terrible arranged marriages are. In almost all cases those don't end up "falling in love because of physical intimacy". In most cases that even has the opposite effect. Most spouses in arranged marriages consider a sexless marriage preferable over the alternative. Because of low compatibility. There is a reason we choose mates as a species and don't get assigned to them.

Great to know you have mind-reading abilities! Never thought I had been talking to Magneto all this time :P

In all seriousness though, you are fun to discuss with :D Hope I'm not pulling your leg too much.

Magneto can't read minds. Is that supposed to be the lame joke?
I am basing this all on what you display. No mind reading necessary. If this is a front, I don't know why you want to come off as someone so terrible, but be my guest. shrug

Boy, and people say Touko is stubborn . . . :)

Boy, and people say Touko is stubborn . . . :)

Well, if you keep throwing garbage at the trash compactor, don't be surprised when it gets crushed and processed.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

---

But I did miss all the (facepalm inducing) fun, so lemme try to come up with some stupid doujin titles too. Actual chapter title themed.

"Can't reach the orgasm."
"Can't hear the starting moan."
"Suddenly suffocating on your muffin."
"The skirt rises."
"Overflowing." (this one didnt even need a modifier)

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 12:05PM

"Fever"

"A fuck is just a fuck"

"The Gay Star."
"Voyeurism: Her sister's perspective."
"Many Secrets & Fetishes."
"They nicknamed it ' Lighthouse '."

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 12:15PM

This was so funny that I just couldn't keep it for myself, so I LITERALLY JUST SHOWED THIS SHIT to my GF. Thank y'all for the good laugh!

I have enjoyed silently reading everyone's reactions and theories up until these past recent pages. The negativity and personal attacks are entirely unnecessary, and quite frankly spoil the discussion of the manga. There's enough of that going around, and we certainly don't need that here.

I, however, hope that there will continue to be more open - and foremost, courteous - discussion, refuting theories, etc., free of disdain and feeling the need to make accusations towards each other, whether justified or not (there really is no need for the discussions to turn personal). If you find yourself getting irritated or agitated, might I suggest taking a breather first and do something else for a bit - it really does help. You're free to do whatever you want I suppose, but I doubt it's in your best interest to get so heated over something that is meant to be recreational enjoyment. With utmost sincerity, pretty please.

Keep in mind that this is a work of fiction and everything is just speculation. Whether fiction or not, people, if nothing else, cannot be counted on to be consistent with their behaviour (we are all complex beings) so don’t take it too seriously this “it’s not in keeping with her character” business. It may not be considered “good” in a literary sense to have too many character inconsistencies, but it would not be completely unrealistic in a real-life setting.

To that end, may we get some good shed-lovin for the main couple, and at the very least, closure for each of our beloved characters, which I'm sure Nakatani will deliver.

I wish you all a happy day, fellow readers =)

"What happens when they're 'Both Alone'."

I have enjoyed silently reading everyone's reactions and theories up until these past recent pages. The negativity and personal attacks are entirely unnecessary, and quite frankly spoil the discussion of the manga. There's enough of that going around, and we certainly don't need that here.

I, however, hope that there will continue to be more open - and foremost, courteous - discussion, refuting theories, etc., free of disdain and feeling the need to make accusations towards each other, whether justified or not (there really is no need for the discussions to turn personal). If you find yourself getting irritated or agitated, might I suggest taking a breather first and do something else for a bit - it really does help. You're free to do whatever you want I suppose, but I doubt it's in your best interest to get so heated over something that is meant to be recreational enjoyment. With utmost sincerity, pretty please.

Keep in mind that this is a work of fiction and everything is just speculation. Whether fiction or not, people, if nothing else, cannot be counted on to be consistent with their behaviour (we are all complex beings) so don’t take it too seriously this “it’s not in keeping with her character” business. It may not be considered “good” in a literary sense to have too many character inconsistencies, but it would not be completely unrealistic in a real-life setting.

To that end, may we get some good shed-lovin for the main couple, and at the very least, closure for each of our beloved characters, which I'm sure Nakatani will deliver.

I wish you all a happy day, fellow readers =)

What a nice, wholesome, useful, and in all good post. Good day to you, too. And, also, good day to the rest of y'all.

"The boy who fucks me" (Maki x Doujima)

Not my point. I didn't have much time yesterday, so I cut myself short. You are acting like a caricature of what you think people like that talk like. Of course there are people who value short-term pleasure over emotional stability. They just don't talk like that.
And you misrepresented those studies, either to serve your needs or because you didn't bother actually reading it. Don't think everyone just eats up your words lol

I neither misrepresented the studies, which I have read some, nor the anecdotal evidence. Also, I'm not talking like some sort of group or caricature, just like myself.

When you say "Of course there are people who value short-term pleasure over emotional stability", I think you are having some difficulty in understanding nuance. There is nothing necessarily emotionally stable about relationships (they can be terrible too; divorce? cheating?fights? co-dependence?), just like there isn't anything necessarily unstable about friends with benefits or respectful casual sex. The manner of relating with others is what counts, and this is about personality traits and maturity. A selfish person in a relationship may be super in love with you, but they will likely still be selfish and cause you grief; a kind person who is your friend and that you happen to find attractive, and who you have good communication with, will be a much better source of emotional stability and support even if you are not in love.

And by the way, me saying those things doesn't mean I am against romantic relationships. All I'm doing is counter-arguing your apparent assumptions that there is something necessarily better about them and that just because someone doesn't see things in such black and white categories, they must be "terrible" and "numb".

Regardless, all I did was point out that it's common for people to fall in love due to repeated encounters like this. That's what I find interesting about Bloom Into You, in the sense that, it's the inverted process to how things are usually shown. I think falling in love before you kissed/touched someone or falling in love because you did are just different paths to the same emotion. In cultures with arranged marriages for example, the latter is the norm.

It has nothing to do with the the kissing or touching (or at the very least that's the least relevant part). That is what you projected on to it. It couldn't be more obvious that the kissing wasn't the trigger at any point. They obviously fell for each other due to aspects of their personality they liked about each other. In fact it's kind of repeated over and over. The physical aspect is basically just a manifestation of them liking each other... as it should be. I mean ffs, how many kisses were there before Yuu confessed? 3? 4? How many scenes were there where Yuu or Touko were obviously love struck without any physical intimacy happening? Countless.

Let's agree to disagree about what happened in the manga, it's okay. But I kinda think you are misunderstanding me still...the impression I have is that you seem to believe if someone is having physical intimacy without being in love, it must mean they are not having any emotional intimacy. That's so unrealistic! lol

So of course Yuu fell in love with Touko because of the escalating physical and emotional intimacy. But all I'm saying is that at least from the way I read it, Touko kissing her, hugging her, being physically close etc was a very large component. I mean...do you seriously think if Touko just acted as platonic friend, just showing her personality without slowly easing her into being physical, Yuu would have fallen for her? If so then why was that part there, just to please the readers? lol

Don't you dare undercut how terrible arranged marriages are. In almost all cases those don't end up "falling in love because of physical intimacy". In most cases that even has the opposite effect. Most spouses in arranged marriages consider a sexless marriage preferable over the alternative. Because of low compatibility. There is a reason we choose mates as a species and don't get assigned to them.

So for sure FORCED arranged marriages are a bad deal. But it's well-known that in arranged marriages where the partners are not against it (typically because they have seen each other a few times and approve of each other, and find each other cute and pleasant enough to be around), yes they often do fall in love. I only have anecdotal evidence for this, mind you, but it's from several friends who married that way and come from this type of culture.

Great to know you have mind-reading abilities! Never thought I had been talking to Magneto all this time :P

In all seriousness though, you are fun to discuss with :D Hope I'm not pulling your leg too much.

Magneto can't read minds. Is that supposed to be the lame joke?

LOL :D I meant the other guy. Prof Xavier. It was supposed to be a lame joke of course, but got lamer by my mistake.

I am basing this all on what you display. No mind reading necessary. If this is a front, I don't know why you want to come off as someone so terrible, but be my guest. shrug

You may not like what I'm saying, but that's hardly evidence I'm terrible/numb. I could maybe think you are judgemental. But I won't, because I find your intense defense of these romantic ideas cute and refreshing actually.

Now can we move on? :P

I neither misrepresented the studies, which I have read some, nor the anecdotal evidence. Also, I'm not talking like some sort of group or caricature, just like myself.

Do I really need to explain why what you said about those studies is wrong and how you completely ignored context and details? I don't want to write 10 paragraphs for this nonsense. I sincerely hope you understand why your oversimplification is wrong.
Abridged: Sex is not the cause, it is an amplifier which is extremely dependant on existing compatibility. The idea that having lots of good sex makes people fall in love is not what those studies were proving.

When you say "Of course there are people who value short-term pleasure over emotional stability", I think you are having some difficulty in understanding nuance. There is nothing necessarily emotionally stable about relationships (they can be terrible too; divorce? cheating?fights? co-dependence?), just like there isn't anything necessarily unstable about friends with benefits or respectful casual sex. The manner of relating with others is what counts, and this is about personality traits and maturity. A selfish person in a relationship may be super in love with you, but they will likely still be selfish and cause you grief; a kind person who is your friend and that you happen to find attractive, and who you have good communication with, will be a much better source of emotional stability and support even if you are not in love.

And by the way, me saying those things doesn't mean I am against romantic relationships. All I'm doing is counter-arguing your apparent assumptions that there is something necessarily better about them and that just because someone doesn't see things in such black and white categories, they must be "terrible" and "numb".

Me not understanding nuance? That's really rich coming from you haha
The emotional stability comes from the relationship, not the sex. Having sexual relations with people you don't commit to is a short-term pleasure seeking desire. If you are friends with those people it has confirmed averse effects on that relationship. "Sex friends" and the like are unstable connections and no manner of maturity can make up for that.

You have to seperate friendship (which is obviously a stable kind of relationship and has usually a positive effect) from the rest. It kinda seems that you make me out to be against friendship somehow lol
Conversely I am not saying romantic relationships have to end well or are always healthy. The point is that sexuality and romantic love are subsets of seeking stability that you can't find with friends or family. "Casualizing" them is not beneficial for most people, exceptions being those who have a hard time forming emotional bonds in the first place. It's usually a sign of someone who had either been emotionally hurt before or someone who is afraid of connections.

People who talk this way purposely usually want to appear "numb to love and societal standards", to feel unique and in control. I keep saying you are acting like a caricature, because there are almost no people who are seriously like this.

Let's agree to disagree about what happened in the manga, it's okay. But I kinda think you are misunderstanding me still...the impression I have is that you seem to believe if someone is having physical intimacy without being in love, it must mean they are not having any emotional intimacy. That's so unrealistic! lol

So of course Yuu fell in love with Touko because of the escalating physical and emotional intimacy. But all I'm saying is that at least from the way I read it, Touko kissing her, hugging her, being physically close etc was a very large component. I mean...do you seriously think if Touko just acted as platonic friend, just showing her personality without slowly easing her into being physical, Yuu would have fallen for her? If so then why was that part there, just to please the readers? lol

I do disagree. Because... the manga is there. Everything is plain to see. If I was way too nice I'd say "It's your interpretation and that's fine", but you are (almost) objectively wrong due to the source material right in front of you. So I have a hard time not saying exactly that.

Yes that is exactly what I think. As she didn't feel anything from these physical interactions when she really wanted to, despite thinking "This should make me feel something, but it doesn't." Until the sports festival, where Yuu internally realized "This admiration I feel for her is more than a platonic feeling" (not spoken, just implied).
Touko loved Yuu and wanted to do physical things with her, as all lovers do... Yuu simply let it happen. These parts were there due to Touko's input. Yuu grew emotionally during the manga and the physical aspect just added on to it. It was neither the trigger, nor necessary for the change to occur.
Once again, physicality is important for relationships, but it was not relevant to Yuu falling for Touko.

So for sure FORCED arranged marriages are a bad deal. But it's well-known that in arranged marriages where the partners are not against it (typically because they have seen each other a few times and approve of each other, and find each other cute and pleasant enough to be around), yes they often do fall in love. I only have anecdotal evidence for this, mind you, but it's from several friends who married that way and come from this type of culture.

If it's arranged, it's forced. That's kinda what that term means in this context...
Yes, there are lucky cases where the spouses did have chemistry despite having no choice.
And yes, there are also versions where there are several marriage interviews and the partner has an "illusion of choice", but ultimately only the freedom to choose between a couple of names, rather than finding the love he/she wants. It's like a really crappy Tinder which you can't escape lol

There is complex psychology involved here too. People always desire to be happy, so they will change and bend to adapt as best as they can. The most extreme examples being things like Stockholm Syndrome. You can fall in love with anyone if you force yourself enough. Our minds are weak like that.

You may not like what I'm saying, but that's hardly evidence I'm terrible/numb. I could maybe think you are judgemental. But I won't, because I find your intense defense of these romantic ideas cute and refreshing actually.

Now can we move on? :P

You seem to get quite hung up one the numb part, guess that hit a nerve as well. I can't call this act anything but terrible, but I'm not here to insult you all day. That is just my genuine reaction to such exaggerated statements. ┐(´д｀)┌

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 1:42PM

staaaahhp

staaaahhp

Look, I understand your sentiments, but matsuri_wins and I are both mature enough to have this discussion without strangling each other and it still relates to the manga (mostly), so it's not bad to let all of it out.

Uh... unfortunate phrasing is unfortunate.

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 2:21PM

staaaahhp

Look, I understand your sentiments, but matsuri_wins and I are both mature enough to have this discussion without strangling each other and it still relates to the manga (mostly), so it's not bad to let all of it out.

Uh... unfortunate phrasing is unfortunate.

You sure about that? You did admit to getting defensive in the past, but why is there a need to get defensive if you felt no insult? "Unfortunate phrasing" cannot be ignored because this is entirely a textual medium. But I suppose masturi_wins also has a choice not to respond to you so.. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Seeing that you're unlikely to cease, I wish you a good day, and I guess I'll stay off the forums for a while :\

"The boy who fucks me" (Maki x Doujima)

... Maki is an ace, therefore I'm opposed to that prospect...

If there is anything caricatural/stereotypical going on here is that I love discussing ad-infinitum like every good engineer about topics I find interesting. Apologies if it seemed like I was fighting BugDevil or something, hope I conveyed the discussion was in good fun! BugDevil replying intelligently just fueled the flames of interest :D

I think we can stop for now though since I believe it's a stalemate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHsPMxe7bOk

How is this video simultaneously appropriate and inappropriate in this situation?

"The boy who fucks me" (Maki x Doujima)

... Maki is an ace, therefore I'm opposed to that prospect...

Do you think that will stop the Fujo's?

Also, technically, Maki isn't necessarily ace, he is aromantic though

last edited at Oct 31, 2018 4:40PM

Well, even though we were never told so, I got the impression that he's also an ace. But whatever...

Also , if you ask me, I'd say that for someone to be aromantic but not asexual is weirder than the other way around. But that may be just my preconceptions.

Also , if you ask me, I'd say that for someone to be aromantic but not asexual is weirder than the other way around. But that may be just my preconceptions.

But objectively, neither case is weird. Let those preconceptions take a backseat to enjoying the variety of human experience :)

Can't wait for the new chapter to be dropped. I just went over the raws and I want to discuss it.