How does the student-council election fit into that theory? How does the date-with-written-manual fit into that? How does the introduction of Shirapon and the festival sequence support that?

I think the student council election, date manual and Shirapon fit into Mei being a twisted person because being twisted doesn't mean she is EVIL lol She has cute traits as well, and she DOES like Yuzu. She is just selfish, manipulative and emotionally immature. Which she kinds knows too, so it's not like this is hidden from the readers... In all these 3 arcs, you can see her as someone who is very rigid/controlling, and the type that cannot stand being vulnerable. For example, she wanted to be kissed by Yuzu and have her attention during the festival, but instead of being upfront about it, she went the passive-aggressive route by telling Yuzu she has "solved the issue" with Shirapon, knowing this would make Yuzu jealous.

Crudely put, I don’t see how you can have (from an authorial perspective) “Mei really has been a bitch all along” without also necessarily having “and Yuzu has been a complete idiot.” At that point we’ve moved from a poorly constructed plot to the author trolling the audience for the entire series. Maybe the final chapter will show that to have been the case.

I think Mei being a bitch all along is not the point, but more like, sometimes love is like that, we love people who have a lot of imperfections and it's up to us to accept that or not. Yuzu is an idiot only if, upon securing Mei for herself, Mei even then does not love her on the same level. But I don't think that would be the case, in fact Mei is having all these back-and-forth precisely because if she lowers her guard to Yuzu she in a way is a goner. She is going to be the totally over-dependent type which she was kinda becoming already. When we want something too much, as Mei wants to be loved, we may actually run away from it because of the fear of depending on it.

So I'm not defending Sabu's writing skills, as I think her plots tend to be simplistic. But as far as Mei's character goes I don't think there is a conflict between her being Bitch-san and being the one Yuzu chooses at the same time. If that means Yuzu is an idiot, I don't know; I personally think she could be in a healthier relationship, but no doubt there is something appealing about having all this attention from a Defrosted Queen lol

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 10:02PM

^OK, gotcha. Not the way I see it, but OK.

But as far as Mei's character goes I don't think there is a conflict between her being Bitch-san and being the one Yuzu chooses at the same time.

We shall see if Citrus-fandom assembled agrees with you. Lol

If the story had started out and stayed as Yuzu’s story alone as she struggled with her feelings towards this mysterious yet strangely attractive person, rather than starting as Yuzu’s story, developing into the story of the two of them as a couple, then backtracking so that Mei is nearly as opaque at the end as she was at the beginning (only now having racked up a bunch of “being shitty to Yuzu” points so that readers can hate her) that would be a much better story, or at least a more consistent one.

So as far this aspect goes, I tend to agree that it could be seen as bad writing by Sabu. There is, however, another possibility, which again we will probably have the answer to in this last chapter. The possibility is that this was never the story of Yuzu+Mei as a couple, and not Yuzu's story per se either, but rather the story of how Yuzu sees Mei. As she understands Mei better, Mei gets more "screen time". We the readers don't get any hints about the incoming betrayal because Yuzu never did. As the betrayal happens, Mei is no longer part of the story because Yuzu doesn't know who Mei is anymore, and again we are supposed to feel as she feels. Does that make sense?

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 10:13PM

If the story had started out and stayed as Yuzu’s story alone as she struggled with her feelings towards this mysterious yet strangely attractive person, rather than starting as Yuzu’s story, developing into the story of the two of them as a couple, then backtracking so that Mei is nearly as opaque at the end as she was at the beginning (only now having racked up a bunch of “being shitty to Yuzu” points so that readers can hate her) that would be a much better story, or at least a more consistent one.

So as far this aspect goes, I tend to agree that it could be seen as bad writing by Sabu. There is, however, another possibility, which again we will probably have the answer to in this last chapter. The possibility is that this was never the story of Yuzu+Mei as a couple, and not Yuzu's story per se either, but rather the story of how Yuzu sees Mei. As she understands Mei better, Mei gets more "screen time". We the readers don't get any hints about the incoming betrayal because Yuzu never did. As the betrayal happens, Mei is no longer part of the story because Yuzu doesn't know who Mei is anymore, and again we are supposed to feel as she feels. Does that make sense?

It absolutely does make sense, but again, I think it’s you writing a better, far more technically sophisticated and psychologically complex story than the author actually has done. For one thing, IMO, anyone who could actually execute the story you describe wouldn’t have spent so much time and energy on side characters and comedy routines, etc.

Again, let me promise that if this author really does pull this out at the end somehow and demonstrates even one-half of the skill and subtlety attributed to her here, I will fully acknowledge it, because I have wanted this series to be good, and if it turns out that way, I’ll be glad to have been very wrong.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 10:31PM

I think all of us thought that this story is about a YuzuMei love story and we are disappointed because of this expectation. I am guilty of this.

Come to think of it, the title of the manga is Citrus, which is basically Yuzu's name so this manga is about Yuzu's story and development. Even I myself was expecting to see Mei's POV after she left Yuzu with a letter and was sorely disappointed when that didn't happen. This manga was never about Mei and was never about their love story. It has always been and will be about Yuzu because like one poster said here, we only come to understand Mei under Yuzu's POV and imo, Mei's development and screen time is dependent on how Yuzu sees her.

I'm now thinking that the ending might be bittersweet considering the title of this manga cos citrus tastes bitter, sweet and sour.

I'm now thinking that the ending might be bittersweet considering the title of this manga cos citrus tastes bitter, sweet and sour.

so this ISN'T going to end well. bittersweet is in itself a bad ending anyway.

Blastaar, sorry I was already adding to and editing my post before you responded, so I was under the impression it was still safe to do so. It's rather rude to edit something that somebody has already responded to and it was not my intent to do that to you.

When I have a bit more time I will come back and give you a proper and more in depth response as to why I thought Mei's behavior really was subtle, but effective foreshadowing for the fact that she had her upcoming arranged marriage looming over her and it was weighing heavily on her conscience the whole time Yuzu and her were together.

last edited at Jul 26, 2018 2:52AM

The only thing I expect from the end is disappointment, I already happened with AMANO Shuninta and Kadama Naoko, I thought that they would do something different and innovative but instead it was a final trap. Saburouta is doing the same, from the beginning he brought us a bittersweet story with hot scenes as a result what he has maintained all the way, it was entertaining to watch, but this time the only thing he will do is leave the fans disappointed.

Blastaar, sorry I was already adding to and editing my post before you responded, so I was under the impression it was still safe to do so. It's rather rude to edit something that somebody has already responded to and it was not my intent to do that to you.

When I have a bit more time I will come back and give you a proper and more in depth response as to why I thought Mei's behavior really was subtle, but effective foreshadowing for the fact that she had her upcoming arranged marriage looming over her and it was weighing heavily on her conscience the whole time Yuzu and her were together.

I think when the reader looks back it becomes pretty clear Mei was holding back all along because of the marriage (plus her vulnerability issues). Again the only reason why Sabu didn't show her thoughts and everything in a more obvious way is because the entire story is solely on Yuzu's perspective.

Sabu may not have handled the plot with grace, etc, but this one thing she did very well which is to make us feel like Yuzu feels. The emotional reactions to ch 36 are evidence. It can even be said, that the lots of attention given to side-characters etc, is because Yuzu gives all this attention to her friends (and sidesteps talking to Mei in-depth about anything, as if she is in la-la land or maybe sticking her head in the sand 24/7). It's not like we ever see how the friends are like without Yuzu around, except on rare occasions.

last edited at Jul 26, 2018 7:50AM

^ You guys have made your case, and it's an interesting one.

It may be true that elements in the story which I, and many other readers, have been interpreting as indicating a lack of focus and consistency on the part of the author have all been part of a larger master plan, and the ending will essentially re-write our understanding of the entire previous story, which will turn out to have been much more subtle and complex than readers have been perceiving all along.

That would be a remarkable turn of events. Let's see if it turns out to be true.

@Looking East: No worries about the edit thing--we're just chatting.

last edited at Jul 26, 2018 8:45AM

Citrus' anime doesnt cover even half of the content, how does that promote the much later volume? Its meant to promote the entire manga, not just the ending volume that the new readers wouldnt have any idea what was going on.

The anime did boost sales. The sales rankings on sites like amazon.jp surged. People either started from the beginning or picked up where the anime left off.

Many manga series don't get complete anime adaptations, since the source material was ongoing at the time. But many times they don't get second seasons, but rather are expected to just pick up and read the manga if they want to see more.

The possibility is that this was never the story of Yuzu+Mei as a couple, and not Yuzu's story per se either, but rather the story of how Yuzu sees Mei. As she understands Mei better, Mei gets more "screen time". We the readers don't get any hints about the incoming betrayal because Yuzu never did. As the betrayal happens, Mei is no longer part of the story because Yuzu doesn't know who Mei is anymore, and again we are supposed to feel as she feels. Does that make sense?

How does the student-council election fit into that theory? How does the date-with-written-manual fit into that? How does the introduction of Shirapon and the festival sequence support that?

I was gonna comment about this but you did it first, I think people here are being way too optimistic about how the story developed, I mean if that is true and Mei knew all along that she had to go with the arranged marriage thing and was planning to do it then she is even worse that I was thinking of her before. Like "I know I'll have to marry a random guy to inherit the school so better have my fun now with my sister while I can" and after the student-council election -> date-with-written-manual -> festival sequence happened she was like "well that was fun, now Yuzu get the fuck out of here time to go back to business", like those douchebag characters in shoujo manga that just go out with the girl till he is bored and then dump her.

The possibility is that this was never the story of Yuzu+Mei as a couple, and not Yuzu's story per se either, but rather the story of how Yuzu sees Mei. As she understands Mei better, Mei gets more "screen time". We the readers don't get any hints about the incoming betrayal because Yuzu never did. As the betrayal happens, Mei is no longer part of the story because Yuzu doesn't know who Mei is anymore, and again we are supposed to feel as she feels. Does that make sense?

How does the student-council election fit into that theory? How does the date-with-written-manual fit into that? How does the introduction of Shirapon and the festival sequence support that?

I was gonna comment about this but you did it first, I think people here are being way too optimistic about how the story developed, I mean if that is true and Mei knew all along that she had to go with the arranged marriage thing and was planning to do it then she is even worse that I was thinking of her before. Like "I know I'll have to marry a random guy to inherit the school so better have my fun now with my sister while I can" and after the student-council election -> date-with-written-manual -> festival sequence happened she was like "well that was fun, now Yuzu get the fuck out of here time to go back to business", like those douchebag characters in shoujo manga that just go out with the girl till he is bored and then dump her.

Except Mei had miscalculated and fallen for Yuzu hard...

Have you watched Fingersmith before? This manga is like going towards Fingersmith's direction... with the way you interpreted Mei's character. Only difference is, viewers are able to sympathize with Maud (a conniving character in Fingersmith but ended up falling in love with the girl she conned) because the author gave us her POV.

If Sabu is planning to make us sympathize with Mei, she had failed because there isn't much POV given to her. In the end, all the readers are left with is only our own interpretation of Mei. Or maybe that's what Sabu wanted all along - for us to have a split decision on Mei and a debate about her lol.

Mei clearly was reluctant to enter this relationship but ended up not being able to say no to Yuzu (who would, the girl is irresistible), then tried to still not get too deep into it but fell hard for Yuzu instead. By the time she realized she was completely in love, the whole arranged marriage process had already started. It's not black and white, she can simultaneously be sincerely in love with Yuzu AND be in the wrong for not communicating properly the situation, being a coward about it and sticking her head in the sand throughout, then running away when sh*t truly hit the fan. Think about it though: how many of us have made the same mistakes, even if perhaps at a smaller scale (or some of us for sure at a bigger scale, like cheating on someone we genuinely love)? I think the hate Mei gets is precisely because she f*cked it up, a lot of us f*ck it up on the daily and it's horrible to watch the train-wreck unfold lol

last edited at Jul 26, 2018 10:58PM

Have you watched Fingersmith before? This manga is like going towards Fingersmith's direction

I read the plot from wikipedia and it was pretty interesting but the thing here is that Mei is the only one doing the deceiving here, Yuzu is being honest and giving it all for them to get together but Mei priorities lie elsewhere and still she does the whole romancing the dumping thing, that's why I can't stand her.

Here is my rant about Citrus
I dunno I like Mei but there is a lot about her character that I feel is lacking. Mei deserved a lot more scenes fleshing out her personality and motivations than what we were given. She is written too much like those inscrutable dark haired beauties of yuri yore and it really detracts from her character.
For example, look at Raven from Teen Titans. When she is first introduced she seems like just a moody goth girl. She is mysterious and leaves you wanting more. However, as the series progresses she is given so much development over time that when her arch ends you feel like you truly understand her and empathize with her. At the end of her arch she is a dramatically different character than how she was first introduced. What a shame it would have been if she had merely remained the brooding, moody character she was introduced as. I feel that way about Mei, it seems like a shame. Do I still like her? Yeah because I am always drawn to that type of character, but I cant help feeling like something is still missing. That is frustrating.
Okay so another aspect of the story that hardly has a mention is Mei's family and the obligation that she carries. There are a precious few scenes devoted to that and it is virtually forgotten until much later. That is why it feels weird when it suddenly rears its ugly head again. Mei's willingness to seemingly throw Yuzu under the bus wouldn't have felt like such a betrayal for a lot of people if there had been more effort into explaining why she had felt cornered into that situation. More scenes with Mei's grandfather and father would really helped as well. What was the catalyst that made Mei's father turn from his obligation and leave Mei behind? Also maybe Mei's mother? She is such a non entity that Mei might as well as have come from a test tube.

This manga is cringy. I think that's the best way to describe it.
I would also summarize the series as embarrassing.

It saddens me to know that despite all the intimacy that Mei and Yuzu have had (no matter how forced it was) they have never really had sex, knowing that it is something that involves both emotional and carnal bonds.
While it's pretty sure that Mei has already had sex with her ex-fiancé, that means that Mei feels much more identified with her ex-fool (who treated her as one more step to achieve success) than with Yuzo, who is one of the few people who shows interest in her.

No @Amberheart, Mei didn't have sex with the teacher. Especially not if he's her fiancé before the marriage her grandfather already prepared for her after school at this time, not knowing that this man was manipulating her. The more she had with him was these molesting and forced kisses we saw... enough to already give her a very disturbed view on physical intimacy.

If you talk about Mei's behavior in chapter 8 ("that is your first time"), it is clear that she's all bravado and tries to project the image of an experienced and assured person when she's not. It's one of her traits: keeping control by showing she's full of confidence when she lacks this confidence. Another trait is that she's someone that mimic things she reads or listens to because she needs guidance and needs "to follow the plan". She quoted Nene's word about her admiration for Yuzu in volume 5. We know she read Yuzu's mangas, so she probably copies lines and gestures she saw ...

It's especially proved during one of the bonus when she perfectly quotes the Peach sisters and knows the exact page of her quote.

She is also looking for a book on "Romance for beginners" in volume 6 at the Academy's library. So Mei is totally clueless about these things, she doesn't have the first-hand experience except chapter 1.

It's a real misunderstanding of her character if you proclaim she had sex already. I will add, it is an arranged marriage with the teacher so of course, she is still a virgin! And from the air of disgust she had in chapter 1 after the kiss, pretty sure that she didn't identify, as you state, with him. She's disconnected, her feelings and her mind in one part, her body in the other part.

last edited at Jul 31, 2018 2:24AM

No @Amberheart, Mei didn't have sex with the teacher. Especially not if he's her fiancé before the marriage her grandfather already prepared for her after school at this time, not knowing that this man was manipulating her. The more she had with him was these molesting and forced kisses we saw... enough to already give her a very disturbed view on physical intimacy.

If you talk about Mei's behavior in chapter 8 ("that is your first time"), it is clear that she's all bravado and tries to project the image of an experienced and assured person when she's not. It's one of her traits: keeping control by showing she's full of confidence when she lacks this confidence. Another trait is that she's someone that mimic things she reads or listens to because she needs guidance and needs "to follow the plan". She quoted Nene's word about her admiration for Yuzu in volume 5. We know she read Yuzu's mangas, so she probably copies lines and gestures she saw ...

It's especially proved during one of the bonus when she perfectly quotes the Peach sisters and knows the exact page of her quote.

She is also looking for a book on "Romance for beginners" in volume 6 at the Academy's library. So Mei is totally clueless about these things, she doesn't have the first-hand experience except chapter 1.

It's a real misunderstanding of her character if you proclaim she had sex already. I will add, it is an arranged marriage with the teacher so of course, she is still a virgin! And from the air of disgust she had in chapter 1 after the kiss, pretty sure that she didn't identify, as you state, with him. She's disconnected, her feelings and her mind in one part, her body in the other part.

Don't assume that romantic experience and sexual experience equate to the same thing. For instance most cheap hookers are grand masters when it comes to sexual prowess, yet many of these same women have very little experience with actual romance outside of the occasional beating from their pimp.

I am not saying Mei is a hooker, just that her behavior is quite indicative of somebody that has quite a bit of real world sexual experience, but little or no real romantic experience. Particularly in the early chapters she is shown to be very physically sexually aggressive and quite adept at physical seduction, but conversely is incredibly underdeveloped when it comes to understanding or sharing emotional intimacy with others.

I wouldn't take her passive-aggressive behavior as a proof of it, especially if we replace things into context. A Japanese arranged marriage with a groomed female heir of a prestigious family with a member of the school team. I think that people really try to put western google here. So I still find unlikely that Mei had sex, really, especially when we look at the way the kiss of chapter 1 happens (at school since the teacher, as a future fiancee in an omai wouldn't date or meet Mei at home alone, just had some social meetings with her to conclude the future contract) and with the way the teacher is talking with his lover on the phone : "until then, the most I will do is to be affectionate" [それまではせいぜい可愛がるさ] meaning he won't do anything more than we already saw (kiss) before being married to Mei when she'll be 18 to have status and prestige.

Edit : 可愛がる means be sweet, caring in a very cute way, pampering. The Japanese word clearly excludes sexual undertones. If the teacher would have already had sex with Mei, he wouldn't have used this word.

Let's not talk about the huge scandal that led him to leave the school without notice for just kissing her meaning he already went to far...

If we take into account Mei's way to retaliate against Yuzu's "romantic kiss" speech, we can think that Mei wanted to show to Yuzu how it was far from being romantic. She was clearly hurt by Yuzu's cockiness here, Yuzu, of course, being ignorant of Mei's real situation. For just the kiss ... I think that is enough for her to imagine using physical intimacy as a way to control people, without having been in a sexual situation with the teacher. The chapter 8 scene happens just after Mei has been in touch with Yuzu's readings, she's still the mimic specialist she's in the manga because it's difficult for her to act accordingly to her true self.

The author, sadly, never made things clear about that (even though I find the wording enough), but I never saw, except here and on some western social forums, readers believing she had sex, not among Japanese readers. Because the fact she's in an arranged wedding exclude sexual relationships before it.

EDIT : sorry for the edit, but I needed to check at home my Japanese volumes, and I think that the infamous chapter 8 scene that people (here) read as Mei being familiar of sexual acts is almost a translation trap. Not the first time the Seven Seas translation and the fansub's one miss a word (Remember the "for a while" forgotten).

chaopter 8 : https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/citrus_ch08#3

Mei's quote in third panel : 優しくするわはじめてなんでしょう?

It is usually translated with "I'll be gentle for your first time". this is a plausible interpretation cause at this moment, translators read Mei's behavior as being potentially promiscuous. So it can make sense if we forget other hints and the cultural context of the omaï, and also Mei's real personality that will transpire more and more after volume 2.

But, the Japanese wording doesn't explicitly mention the 2nd person. The first time mentioned by Mei isn't specifically exclusively Yuzu's one (implying it is not Mei's first).

The sentence is more ... "I'll be gentle for the first time, don't you agree ?" or more "How about I be gentle for the first time?". Or, literally, "How about I act with gentleness for the first time". Which can explain why Japanese readers never really bothered with the theory of Mei having had sex already, cause well, the wording is clear for them.

The first time here {はじめて} isn't explicitly the first time someone makes love ... it is not a noun but a temporal adverb. This can imply that it is also her first time or more than that: she knows Yuzu likes gentleness and sweetness, she is a pure romantic, so Mei believes she has to act caringly, sweetly in contradiction of her forceful ways to take control of Yuzu the previous times she used physical intimacy.

The Japanese sentence doesn't really state 100% that it's only Yuzu's first time, cause there isn't the equivalent of "your". Once again, we have a mimic Mei. She read Yuzu's manga, saw sweet love scenes (remember Harumin mimicking a position she read) and imagine that is what she has to do to shut Yuzu in a more satisfying way. Her previous tactics were to be abrupt as the teacher was with her, but she thinks she knows Yuzu better and changes her tactic, to use something sweeter.

last edited at Jul 31, 2018 6:16AM

That's a pretty good explanation, I guess we can all agree Mei never had sex and so much is lost in translation. Regardless, I don't think she will have sex in the manga either. We can only hope I suppose...

I don't think she'll have sex either. The more we can hope is maybe a morning after scene after some time skip. But at this pace, it seems we can hardly predict now what the author will give us or not in the last chapter more than the expected reconciliation scene.

last edited at Jul 31, 2018 11:44AM

And that's why I like Kodama. I don't think I can read any long series from Saburouta anymore, good grief! "Blue balls" at their finest.

It's fine, I think the user up there is just obsessed with the idea of ntr (in many series here) so he/she finds a way to distort the plot to make sense of it.