Maybe this is just me rationalizing my previous attitude about a series that I once liked pretty much (even though I also thought it was kinda silly and flawed in construction), and where I was really rooting for the characters to be happy.

But in all my time in reading manga/comics, I've never had a stronger sense (for all the reasons we've discussed at length here) that the story the author thinks she's telling isn't the story she's actually telling. (Again, this is assuming that there is a happy ending and that there isn't some super-ninja-mangaka move coming up.)

noir66: I think we're gonna need a bigger twist than that. My current version involves Mei actually being the witch Yuko from xxxHolic in disguise, and the entire series is the required payment for a wish Yuzu had come true.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 1:49PM

once again it's yuzu running after her as***le sister who'd rather keep her family sh*tty inheritance and being some random guy breeding cow than live happilly evef after with her yuzu who actually REALLY loves her.... can someone explain to me WHY people still ship mei X yuzu and WHY yuzu keep chasing such an As***le as mei while mei didn't put any effort in their relationship since the BEGINNING? please tell me i want to understand.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 2:15PM

I honestly think Sabu knows exactly what she is doing. People have been interpreting this as a sweet love story for some reason, but it's not sweet right? It's bittersweet, as Sabu always said, so we are basically being the audience to a love train-wreck. We are meant to see it as a mostly one-sided, unfair love story. Mei is not the hero, she is the villain and the princess being rescued at the same time. People will see her differently according to their experiences. I wouldn't even discard a bitter ending at this point, but even what a happy or bitter ending would constitute is different for different people, again according to whether they see Mei as the villain or the fragile princess.

Personally in my opinion the ideal partner for Yuzu would be Harumin, but I don't want her to be with Harumin either because Yuzu friend-zoned Harumin so hard and Matsuri deserves Harumin much more at this point. So, I kinda wish for Mei to not get married and they both go their separate ways, grow up and meet up as adults to finish the unresolved feelings if any.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 3:53PM

I honestly think Sabu knows exactly what she is doing. People have been interpreting this as a sweet love story for some reason, but it's not sweet right? It's bittersweet, as Sabu always said, so we are basically being the audience to a love train-wreck. We are meant to see it as a mostly one-sided, unfair love story. Mei is not the hero, she is the villain and the princess being rescued at the same time. People will see her differently according to their experiences. I wouldn't even discard a bitter ending at this point, but even what a happy or bitter ending would constitute is different for different people, again according to whether they see Mei as the villain or the fragile princess.

Personally in my opinion the ideal partner for Yuzu would be Harumin, but I don't want her to be with Harumin either because Yuzu friend-zoned Harumin so hard and Matsuri deserves Harumin much more at this point. So, I kinda wish for Mei to not get married and they both go their separate ways, grow up and meet up as adults to finish the unresolved feelings if any.

i completly agree with you. especially about what you said about harumi. but if mei got married so be it! she isn't honest and for me she don't deserves happiness. so if she spend her life with a man she don't love only because of business well whatever. i just don't want to see yuzu suffer (ONCE again!)

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 5:04PM

@matsuri_wins That’s an interesting take, and a somewhat plausible one. But if that’s the case, I’d stil argue that it was a very badly mishandled one, with the text failing to send the right signals and messing around with irrelevancies for far too long.

Sure, readers interpret the actions of characters against a template of their own experiences and subjectivities, no doubt. But the idea that Mei is intended to be an ambiguous Rorschach blot subject to multiple, irresolvable interpretations implies that Saburouta is being a much more sophisticated and complex storyteller than anything else in the series suggests. To me, anyway.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 5:03PM

@matsuri_wins That’s an interesting take, and a somewhat plausible one. But if that’s the case, I’d stil argue that it was a very badly mishandled one, with the text failing to send the right signals and messing around with irrelevancies for far too long.

Sure, readers interpret the actions of characters against a template of their own experiences and subjectivities, no doubt. But the idea that Mei is intended to be an ambiguous Rorschach blot subject to multiple, irresolvable interpretations implies that Saburouta is being a much more sophisticated and complex storyteller than anything else in the series suggests. To me, anyway.

As to the author's exact intent, only she knows that, but it is very clear that Mei has always been purposely written to be a mysterious and ambiguous character. Who Mei really is as a person and what she is thinking and feeling behind her impenetrable mask has always been the central mystery behind this series. That much seems quite clear.

Saburouta is skilled at writing good characters and rather poor at writing plots which makes for an overall rather uneven experience for the reader. She has demonstrated that she is capable of rather sophisticated storytelling when it comes to character development and interaction. Chapter 36 was an example of what Saburouta is capable of at her best.

That chapter made it very clear that she had been foreshadowing and intentionally building Mei's characterization with this over arching plot twist in mind since the first few chapters of the manga. It was in that chapter that we finally see all the puzzle pieces fall into place as to why Mei has acted the way she has up until this point. That chapter gave me a new found respect for Saburouta as a writer. Having said this, she is also capable of some really cheesy soap opera style cliches when it comes to trying to drive the plot along. She basically has these well developed and quite nuanced characters trapped in the story line from a bad daytime drama. Anyway I don't mean to diminish her work, but rather to point out that she is more skilled than a lot of people give her credit for. It's just that her skill set as a writer is a bit uneven.

Unfortunately, given her weakness when it comes to crafting the plot, I think ending the story well is going to be quite a test for this mangaka. I wish her luck with it.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 6:20PM

As to the author's exact intent, only she knows that, but it is very clear that Mei has always been purposely written to be a mysterious and ambiguous character. Who Mei really is as a person and what she is thinking and feeling behind her impenetrable mask has always been the central mystery behind this series. That much seems quite clear.

You’re right about that, and it’s well said. Yuzu, on the other hand, is quite the opposite (that’s why, despite what a number of readers believe, I thought that for quite some time in the story the two of them had real chemistry as a couple).

If the story had started out and stayed as Yuzu’s story alone as she struggled with her feelings towards this mysterious yet strangely attractive person, rather than starting as Yuzu’s story, developing into the story of the two of them as a couple, then backtracking so that Mei is nearly as opaque at the end as she was at the beginning (only now having racked up a bunch of “being shitty to Yuzu” points so that readers can hate her) that would be a much better story, or at least a more consistent one.

Saburouta is skilled at writing good characters and rather poor at writing plots which makes for an overall rather uneven experience for the reader. Unfortunately, given her weakness when it comes to crafting the plot I think ending the story well is going to be quite a test for this mangaka. I wish her luck with it.

As do I.

Edit: Following up on your edit:

That chapter made it very clear that she had been foreshadowing and intentionally building Mei's characterization with this over arching plot twist in mind since the first few chapters of the manga. It was in that chapter that we finally see all the puzzle pieces fall into place as to why Mei has acted the way she has up until this point.

Here I think we disagree. Had the arranged-marriage issue been kept alive in the story from time to time, even in very slight ways, I would agree with you.

But the story was built on Yuzu and Mei facing a series of hurdles (some of them very preposterous, to be sure) to their being together. The engagement to Rapey-sensei was disposed of pretty definitively when the grandfather says, “It’s time for you and you alone to decide how to live your life.” Her later determination to take over the school is never put in terms of “and that will require an arranged marriage” until the surprise is sprung on everyone at the summer getaway. (I know there may be a couple of very vague but inconsequential hints that we understand later, but basically the issue comes from nowhere as far as readers are concerned.)

That brings up the inside-the-story, character issue: since Mei knew (we are supposed to now understand) that taking over the school always required an arranged marriage undertaken by her own choice, yet she never said a word to Yuzu about it, her relationship with Yuzu from that point onwards (i.e., most of the story) was based on false pretenses and inevitably headed toward a betrayal.

I really don’t think that readers are supposed to think of Mei as unworthy of Yuzu at this point; I think we’re supposed to be sympathetic to Mei’s emotional anguish but we haven’t been given enough reason to do so.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 6:36PM

I think we were actually supposed to see Mei as someone who was full of false pretenses and mindlessly heading toward a betrayal actually, while at the same time feeling bad for her because we also see her as Yuzu sees her. She has displayed self-hatred (like calling herself "twisted"), had sexual harassment problems and was aggressive towards people like Nene and Matsuri. I mean, what in Mei's characterization has ever shown her to be A Good Person(tm)?

Also the grandfather statement is well known to have been mistranslated. He actually said "for now".

Basically if readers were seeing Mei as someone who needs to be saved, that's only because Sabura was successful in making them ignore the evidence and see her as Yuzu sees her.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 8:48PM

^ Like I said, it’s an interesting theory. But I see it as a function of readers rehabilitating the story rather than an author’s actual accomplishment, simply because too much of the story hasn’t been about that at all.

How does the student-council election fit into that theory? How does the date-with-written-manual fit into that? How does the introduction of Shirapon and the festival sequence support that?

Crudely put, I don’t see how you can have (from an authorial perspective) “Mei really has been a bitch all along” without also necessarily having “and Yuzu has been a complete idiot.” At that point we’ve moved from a poorly constructed plot to the author trolling the audience for the entire series. Maybe the final chapter will show that to have been the case.

And Mei has in fact been unnecessarily harsh at times, but in Matsuri’s case, she had it coming. lol

for myself (and it's only a personal opinion not the truth) mei is just a heartless b*tch who never intend to return yuzu's feeling until the moment she really began to realise that she was "in love". plus she is a coward! she never face yuzu to tell her the truth. as someone said this is a betrayal. because it's mei who made move on yuzu (she kissed her without a warning it was almost as if she wanted to rape her) so when she qualifie herself as "twisted" for me it's kinda true. for me she will stay the sicko who made a move on her new "sister" on their first meeting only to constantly reject her (sadistic?) AND the coward unable to face her true feelings and unable to be honest with others. (sorry but leaving your "girlfriend" with just a letter to explain how you bretrayed her all along it's really the most cowardly thing i could imagine.) and i apologize for those who like mei.i also agree with the other post saying that yuzu as also been an idiot! that far too true. she IS too naive! looks like a SM relationship! mei is torturing yuzu and yuzu seems to want more!

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 9:25PM

How does the student-council election fit into that theory? How does the date-with-written-manual fit into that? How does the introduction of Shirapon and the festival sequence support that?

I think the student council election, date manual and Shirapon fit into Mei being a twisted person because being twisted doesn't mean she is EVIL lol She has cute traits as well, and she DOES like Yuzu. She is just selfish, manipulative and emotionally immature. Which she kinds knows too, so it's not like this is hidden from the readers... In all these 3 arcs, you can see her as someone who is very rigid/controlling, and the type that cannot stand being vulnerable. For example, she wanted to be kissed by Yuzu and have her attention during the festival, but instead of being upfront about it, she went the passive-aggressive route by telling Yuzu she has "solved the issue" with Shirapon, knowing this would make Yuzu jealous.

Crudely put, I don’t see how you can have (from an authorial perspective) “Mei really has been a bitch all along” without also necessarily having “and Yuzu has been a complete idiot.” At that point we’ve moved from a poorly constructed plot to the author trolling the audience for the entire series. Maybe the final chapter will show that to have been the case.

I think Mei being a bitch all along is not the point, but more like, sometimes love is like that, we love people who have a lot of imperfections and it's up to us to accept that or not. Yuzu is an idiot only if, upon securing Mei for herself, Mei even then does not love her on the same level. But I don't think that would be the case, in fact Mei is having all these back-and-forth precisely because if she lowers her guard to Yuzu she in a way is a goner. She is going to be the totally over-dependent type which she was kinda becoming already. When we want something too much, as Mei wants to be loved, we may actually run away from it because of the fear of depending on it.

So I'm not defending Sabu's writing skills, as I think her plots tend to be simplistic. But as far as Mei's character goes I don't think there is a conflict between her being Bitch-san and being the one Yuzu chooses at the same time. If that means Yuzu is an idiot, I don't know; I personally think she could be in a healthier relationship, but no doubt there is something appealing about having all this attention from a Defrosted Queen lol

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 10:02PM

^OK, gotcha. Not the way I see it, but OK.

But as far as Mei's character goes I don't think there is a conflict between her being Bitch-san and being the one Yuzu chooses at the same time.

We shall see if Citrus-fandom assembled agrees with you. Lol

If the story had started out and stayed as Yuzu’s story alone as she struggled with her feelings towards this mysterious yet strangely attractive person, rather than starting as Yuzu’s story, developing into the story of the two of them as a couple, then backtracking so that Mei is nearly as opaque at the end as she was at the beginning (only now having racked up a bunch of “being shitty to Yuzu” points so that readers can hate her) that would be a much better story, or at least a more consistent one.

So as far this aspect goes, I tend to agree that it could be seen as bad writing by Sabu. There is, however, another possibility, which again we will probably have the answer to in this last chapter. The possibility is that this was never the story of Yuzu+Mei as a couple, and not Yuzu's story per se either, but rather the story of how Yuzu sees Mei. As she understands Mei better, Mei gets more "screen time". We the readers don't get any hints about the incoming betrayal because Yuzu never did. As the betrayal happens, Mei is no longer part of the story because Yuzu doesn't know who Mei is anymore, and again we are supposed to feel as she feels. Does that make sense?

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 10:13PM

If the story had started out and stayed as Yuzu’s story alone as she struggled with her feelings towards this mysterious yet strangely attractive person, rather than starting as Yuzu’s story, developing into the story of the two of them as a couple, then backtracking so that Mei is nearly as opaque at the end as she was at the beginning (only now having racked up a bunch of “being shitty to Yuzu” points so that readers can hate her) that would be a much better story, or at least a more consistent one.

So as far this aspect goes, I tend to agree that it could be seen as bad writing by Sabu. There is, however, another possibility, which again we will probably have the answer to in this last chapter. The possibility is that this was never the story of Yuzu+Mei as a couple, and not Yuzu's story per se either, but rather the story of how Yuzu sees Mei. As she understands Mei better, Mei gets more "screen time". We the readers don't get any hints about the incoming betrayal because Yuzu never did. As the betrayal happens, Mei is no longer part of the story because Yuzu doesn't know who Mei is anymore, and again we are supposed to feel as she feels. Does that make sense?

It absolutely does make sense, but again, I think it’s you writing a better, far more technically sophisticated and psychologically complex story than the author actually has done. For one thing, IMO, anyone who could actually execute the story you describe wouldn’t have spent so much time and energy on side characters and comedy routines, etc.

Again, let me promise that if this author really does pull this out at the end somehow and demonstrates even one-half of the skill and subtlety attributed to her here, I will fully acknowledge it, because I have wanted this series to be good, and if it turns out that way, I’ll be glad to have been very wrong.

last edited at Jul 25, 2018 10:31PM

I think all of us thought that this story is about a YuzuMei love story and we are disappointed because of this expectation. I am guilty of this.

Come to think of it, the title of the manga is Citrus, which is basically Yuzu's name so this manga is about Yuzu's story and development. Even I myself was expecting to see Mei's POV after she left Yuzu with a letter and was sorely disappointed when that didn't happen. This manga was never about Mei and was never about their love story. It has always been and will be about Yuzu because like one poster said here, we only come to understand Mei under Yuzu's POV and imo, Mei's development and screen time is dependent on how Yuzu sees her.

I'm now thinking that the ending might be bittersweet considering the title of this manga cos citrus tastes bitter, sweet and sour.

I'm now thinking that the ending might be bittersweet considering the title of this manga cos citrus tastes bitter, sweet and sour.

so this ISN'T going to end well. bittersweet is in itself a bad ending anyway.

Blastaar, sorry I was already adding to and editing my post before you responded, so I was under the impression it was still safe to do so. It's rather rude to edit something that somebody has already responded to and it was not my intent to do that to you.

When I have a bit more time I will come back and give you a proper and more in depth response as to why I thought Mei's behavior really was subtle, but effective foreshadowing for the fact that she had her upcoming arranged marriage looming over her and it was weighing heavily on her conscience the whole time Yuzu and her were together.

last edited at Jul 26, 2018 2:52AM

The only thing I expect from the end is disappointment, I already happened with AMANO Shuninta and Kadama Naoko, I thought that they would do something different and innovative but instead it was a final trap. Saburouta is doing the same, from the beginning he brought us a bittersweet story with hot scenes as a result what he has maintained all the way, it was entertaining to watch, but this time the only thing he will do is leave the fans disappointed.

Blastaar, sorry I was already adding to and editing my post before you responded, so I was under the impression it was still safe to do so. It's rather rude to edit something that somebody has already responded to and it was not my intent to do that to you.

When I have a bit more time I will come back and give you a proper and more in depth response as to why I thought Mei's behavior really was subtle, but effective foreshadowing for the fact that she had her upcoming arranged marriage looming over her and it was weighing heavily on her conscience the whole time Yuzu and her were together.

I think when the reader looks back it becomes pretty clear Mei was holding back all along because of the marriage (plus her vulnerability issues). Again the only reason why Sabu didn't show her thoughts and everything in a more obvious way is because the entire story is solely on Yuzu's perspective.

Sabu may not have handled the plot with grace, etc, but this one thing she did very well which is to make us feel like Yuzu feels. The emotional reactions to ch 36 are evidence. It can even be said, that the lots of attention given to side-characters etc, is because Yuzu gives all this attention to her friends (and sidesteps talking to Mei in-depth about anything, as if she is in la-la land or maybe sticking her head in the sand 24/7). It's not like we ever see how the friends are like without Yuzu around, except on rare occasions.

last edited at Jul 26, 2018 7:50AM

^ You guys have made your case, and it's an interesting one.

It may be true that elements in the story which I, and many other readers, have been interpreting as indicating a lack of focus and consistency on the part of the author have all been part of a larger master plan, and the ending will essentially re-write our understanding of the entire previous story, which will turn out to have been much more subtle and complex than readers have been perceiving all along.

That would be a remarkable turn of events. Let's see if it turns out to be true.

@Looking East: No worries about the edit thing--we're just chatting.

last edited at Jul 26, 2018 8:45AM

Citrus' anime doesnt cover even half of the content, how does that promote the much later volume? Its meant to promote the entire manga, not just the ending volume that the new readers wouldnt have any idea what was going on.

The anime did boost sales. The sales rankings on sites like amazon.jp surged. People either started from the beginning or picked up where the anime left off.

Many manga series don't get complete anime adaptations, since the source material was ongoing at the time. But many times they don't get second seasons, but rather are expected to just pick up and read the manga if they want to see more.

The possibility is that this was never the story of Yuzu+Mei as a couple, and not Yuzu's story per se either, but rather the story of how Yuzu sees Mei. As she understands Mei better, Mei gets more "screen time". We the readers don't get any hints about the incoming betrayal because Yuzu never did. As the betrayal happens, Mei is no longer part of the story because Yuzu doesn't know who Mei is anymore, and again we are supposed to feel as she feels. Does that make sense?

How does the student-council election fit into that theory? How does the date-with-written-manual fit into that? How does the introduction of Shirapon and the festival sequence support that?

I was gonna comment about this but you did it first, I think people here are being way too optimistic about how the story developed, I mean if that is true and Mei knew all along that she had to go with the arranged marriage thing and was planning to do it then she is even worse that I was thinking of her before. Like "I know I'll have to marry a random guy to inherit the school so better have my fun now with my sister while I can" and after the student-council election -> date-with-written-manual -> festival sequence happened she was like "well that was fun, now Yuzu get the fuck out of here time to go back to business", like those douchebag characters in shoujo manga that just go out with the girl till he is bored and then dump her.

The possibility is that this was never the story of Yuzu+Mei as a couple, and not Yuzu's story per se either, but rather the story of how Yuzu sees Mei. As she understands Mei better, Mei gets more "screen time". We the readers don't get any hints about the incoming betrayal because Yuzu never did. As the betrayal happens, Mei is no longer part of the story because Yuzu doesn't know who Mei is anymore, and again we are supposed to feel as she feels. Does that make sense?

How does the student-council election fit into that theory? How does the date-with-written-manual fit into that? How does the introduction of Shirapon and the festival sequence support that?

I was gonna comment about this but you did it first, I think people here are being way too optimistic about how the story developed, I mean if that is true and Mei knew all along that she had to go with the arranged marriage thing and was planning to do it then she is even worse that I was thinking of her before. Like "I know I'll have to marry a random guy to inherit the school so better have my fun now with my sister while I can" and after the student-council election -> date-with-written-manual -> festival sequence happened she was like "well that was fun, now Yuzu get the fuck out of here time to go back to business", like those douchebag characters in shoujo manga that just go out with the girl till he is bored and then dump her.

Except Mei had miscalculated and fallen for Yuzu hard...

Have you watched Fingersmith before? This manga is like going towards Fingersmith's direction... with the way you interpreted Mei's character. Only difference is, viewers are able to sympathize with Maud (a conniving character in Fingersmith but ended up falling in love with the girl she conned) because the author gave us her POV.

If Sabu is planning to make us sympathize with Mei, she had failed because there isn't much POV given to her. In the end, all the readers are left with is only our own interpretation of Mei. Or maybe that's what Sabu wanted all along - for us to have a split decision on Mei and a debate about her lol.

Mei clearly was reluctant to enter this relationship but ended up not being able to say no to Yuzu (who would, the girl is irresistible), then tried to still not get too deep into it but fell hard for Yuzu instead. By the time she realized she was completely in love, the whole arranged marriage process had already started. It's not black and white, she can simultaneously be sincerely in love with Yuzu AND be in the wrong for not communicating properly the situation, being a coward about it and sticking her head in the sand throughout, then running away when sh*t truly hit the fan. Think about it though: how many of us have made the same mistakes, even if perhaps at a smaller scale (or some of us for sure at a bigger scale, like cheating on someone we genuinely love)? I think the hate Mei gets is precisely because she f*cked it up, a lot of us f*ck it up on the daily and it's horrible to watch the train-wreck unfold lol

last edited at Jul 26, 2018 10:58PM

Have you watched Fingersmith before? This manga is like going towards Fingersmith's direction

I read the plot from wikipedia and it was pretty interesting but the thing here is that Mei is the only one doing the deceiving here, Yuzu is being honest and giving it all for them to get together but Mei priorities lie elsewhere and still she does the whole romancing the dumping thing, that's why I can't stand her.