Blastaar

You'd have more luck reading this entire thread to find the answer to that question.

This isn’t really a preference question, though, and I certainly don’t plan to argue back to anyone. I think that overall this story had a load of style but rather mishandled its characters by not giving the audience enough reasons to be invested in the relationship of the main couple. I’m just interested in why Seju seems to have sparked that degree of audience attachment.

Maybe it’s just that (in terms of the cues I was getting from the narrative) I always assumed all along that Sumin & Sungji were the inevitable couple, while others were reading the triangle as having a different potential resolution.

You'd have more luck reading this entire thread to find the answer to that question.

I actually have read most or all of the posts here at one point or another; I was hoping for maybe a condensed now-that-it’s-over-and-the-ships-are-all-in-port version.

last edited at Nov 18, 2017 3:11PM

You'd have more luck reading this entire thread to find the answer to that question.

I actually have read most or all of the posts here at one point or another; I was hoping for maybe a condensed now-that-it’s-over-and-the-ships-are-all-in-port version.

Ah, well good luck with that. I think a lot of it is more to do with the reader than anything else.

Understand the reader and you may understand their reasons.

last edited at Nov 18, 2017 3:37PM

Understand the reader and you may understand their reasons.

OK, then—that’s that.

Blastaar

I hope you still read the thread cause I'm giving you a proper answer as a Seju lover and a reader. It bugged me that you said you want a proper answer than general like Nora xDDDDD. And I hope you have enough patience to read my post, lol.

Honestly, though, to me, Seju is under-developed, lol. She has a potential back story, an interesting personality (cool, cold, quick wit and sarcastic sometimes) and a never-dying love. She has all the potential stuff to grow more than just an antagonist. This, once, has frustrated me to no end. Cause with a little touch, she could become an ultimate protagonist and grows more than this.

Anyway, back to answer your question. I think, in your comment, there is already a hint of the answer.

Her feelings do seem genuine your words

No matter who you are with a different perspective, if you're sane and not blinded by hatred towards Seju, one thing you have to remember from her is her love for Sumin. Isnt that already different than a typical antagonist? You could see her love for Sumin is incredible. She loves Sumin than anything else. And I think, at the end of the story, her love for Sumin has out-shined Sungji's, imo. A normal reader cant say Sungji loves Sumin more than Seju even at the end of the story but many could say "hey, I think Seju's love is greater than Sungji's". This is the difference. The protagonist's love cant be more than the antagonist's love. Its comparable and at some point its even in the losing side.

One more thing about Seju is she is not entirely good, nor is she entirely bad.

There are 2 types of typical antagonist in any kinds of stories: one is entirely bad who does all the things to get to the main character and pushes the protagonist into her worst nightmare, one is entirely good and angelic who is doing and supporting the protagonist in silence and love her in pain and agony and in the end, supporting the main couple without reasons or any will of fighting back.

One thing in common from this kind of antagonist? You cant relate to this character, one is too evil and one is too good to be true so you'll whole-heartedly support the main couple (even though, sometimes, there readers who might love the angelic antagonist, lolll)

Seju doesnt fit in into two kinds. She is in between two kinds, lolll. Not entirely good but not entirely bad. She is not as perfect as Sungji (sorry I still cant understand Sungji's angelic actions somehow), not as reasonable as Sumin (many readers think Sumin is more reasonable than Seju, I agree). But that makes her more human and I can understand why she did what she did. I can relate to her and sympathize her. This is the important point. I can understand her actions, based on my own experience as well as her past and her childhood, you might not be able to understand her, its up to the readers' emotional state and mindset anyway, but a lot can relate to her more than Sungji. Through her actions, good and bad, along with her mistakes, I could understand her.

For example, she lost Sumin over a cheating scenerio, based on her own insecurities about the ring. I can relate to her. No human is perfect, we can make a mistake and when you love someone too much, you'll afraid of losing that person, and build your own insecurities

Sungji is like a perfect image of what we humans want to be but never be able to be, who never makes a mistake, who is always so calm and come up with a perfect action and reasonable solution.

Seju is a clear version of us more. Someone who could make a mistake but desparately try to get back to what we once had, what we regret but in the end, we just had to let go cause we know its gone.

As an antagonist, Seju is a success. Where else can you find a perfectly-built like Seju? From the stunning appearance to complex personality?

She is just antagonist so she has to fill her basic role, the third wheel of the main couple and gets in their way. She has to fill that role, so sometimes you'll feel she is just that. She could be more but the author hasnt make her to be that far. Its regrettable.

last edited at Nov 18, 2017 9:22PM

As an antagonist, Seju is a success.

Thanks, that’s pretty much what I was looking for. I do actually think that (for the purposes of the story dynamic) Seju is overly-developed compared to the main pair. As you say, we do get a pretty clear picture of who she is and why she does what she does, which I don’t think is true of either Sumin (we get a good sense of who she is in relation to Seju, but not much sense of her as a complete personality outside of that) or Sungji—her “perfection” seems to be stipulated rather the outgrowth of a coherent backstory. So, yeah, a love triangle with two blurry protagonists and a vivid antagonist isn’t really a recipe for overall storytelling success.

Looking at Seju in imaginary person (rather than story dynamic) terms, I’ve seen (and slightly experienced) exes who enjoyed throwing hand grenades into the new relationships, so—not my favorite type. But that’s completely separate from Seju in the story.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. Wdtfs is still an enjoyable read (like I said, it has style to burn), despite some serious flaws as a work of art.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. Wdtfs is still an enjoyable read (like I said, it has style to burn), despite some serious flaws as a work of art.

You're welcome. I just think that I owe other readers who doesnt like Seju much an explanation why I love her for who she is.

She is not perfect and acted evil from time to time so to be able to get a lot of love, its questionable to many people.

I do actually think that (for the purposes of the story dynamic) Seju is overly-developed compared to the main pair.

I have to quote this though, lol xDDDDDD

Tbh, Seju is over-developed or under-developed. This depends alot on which perspective we're on, though xDDDDDD

Compare to other supposed-to-be-main couple, Seju is definitely over-developed xDDDDDD. As a mere antagonist, Seju shouldnt have that much details about her back story, her own emotional struggles and especially her love for the 1st main protagonist. This makes her overshadow the main couple and thus making the couple less special.

But if Seju is not an antagonist but as someone who has too many potential factors around her, her love, her past, her personality, Seju is under-developed. She has too much potential but didnt get to grow to the expectation of what she is possessing.

Basically, Seju is over-developed as an antagonist but didnt get to develop more to be a protagonist even though her back story is solid enough to be one. Seju is pretty much a half-ass character, lollll, too much to be antagonist but not get to be a protagonist.

Well, after all, Seju is the author's biggest success for winning readers' love but she is also their biggest flaw.

That's why I was saying that logic can't apply after ch92, to say Seju is over or underdeveloped can't be separated from the ending, but let's keep that aside for a moment.

Blastaar you said:

Sumin (we get a good sense of who she is in relation to Seju, but not much sense of her as a complete personality outside of that)

that's true, but then developing Seju this much contributed highly in developing Sumin. Without Seju's complexity, you can't have Sumin the way she is NOW or even push Sungji and Sumin in a relationship to begin with. Remember, Team Gaji chose back in the beginning to make Seju the one who brought Sungji to Sumin and pushed them to be together for reasons I speculated back then but don't apply right now. (remember, by the time Sumin dated Sungji she was already there for another play added to her +30 girls which was as well a reaction to her PAST WITH SEJU and PTSD caused by SEJU'S BROTHER).

(to explain Sumin's character YOU need Seju's full development) + (to understand Seju's individual actions, you need extra Seju's background)

= overdevelopment of Seju

had the story brought Sumin and Seju together in the end, would we say that Seju was over-developed still ?

I don't thinks so.

anyways, yoonie did a great job explaining why Seju is our favorite.. the way I understand her emotions and actions.. the way she keeps me anticipating her next move, intentions and how they all make sense.. and the how her morals were tested are so enjoyable to watch and inevitably made me think of her more and indeed love her the most. She the perfect imperfection from an artistic built.

last edited at Nov 19, 2017 1:22AM

yoonie0104

I never saw a highschooler reserve a whole restaurant for her friend and herself XD either!

=)))))) The life of a rich kid.

that's the weird part.. where is it XDD this ring drove me crazy and still is!

Artist's fault. She forgot to draw the ring, LOLLLL, or maybe forgot that they had their first sex after Sumin gave Seju the ring, LOLLLL

The more I enjoy the cute scenes, the harder it is for me to accept the main story's ending

Nah, dont be like that xDDDDD, when the side story about SuminxSungji coming, I'm pretty sure the other team's fans also think "why would people think of teampink ending when SuminxSungji is cute like this". It's just preference but I do really really wish they could handle the main couple better than this, that's for sure

And Nora, I texted you on discord, so if you have time, can you check it?

yoonie

=)))))) The life of a rich kid.

Girrrl.. it is lovely to be super rich when you are an introvert

. It's just preference but I do really really wish they could handle the main couple better than this, that's for sure

that's for sure..

And Nora, I texted you on discord, so if you have time, can you check it?

okay, I would go read the love letters XDD

Sorry,but can I ask if we still can read Wdtfs as soon as usual (unofficial version) or now we wait ten days long and purchase it?

Sorry,but can I ask if we still can read Wdtfs as soon as usual (unofficial version) or now we wait ten days long and purchase it?

sorry, you probably still have to wait the 10 days till you get the translation.

I personally talked to the writer who was frustrated on twitter that the illegal translation is hurting them. Honestly, they don't seem to seek solutions but rather be so emotional about it, with no logic whatsoever. I even got attacked by some sort of other korean writer/reader.. seems they either don't understand the problem or don't want to understand.

The problem with Lezhin is, if they can charge money for the english translation then they at least should be as fast the the person who DOESN'T get paid for their translation !

secondly, if they want people to take them seriously, then they should care more about their customers who complain about mistakes in the translation. QUALITY CONTROL

Lezhin doesn't reply and artists say it is not their problem, then they simply say here take my product with all the defects in it and pay for it with no complains !

if they don't care about their english readers, then why care about the losses from them not buying the Manhwa !

weird logic.

I even had to stumble by an absolute logic-less person who said that even if I buy both Korean and English versions, me reading the unofficial translation hurts the writer.. I was like; did this person drink so much Air conditioner water ?? what kind of brain damage is that ?!

I am the one being hurt for paying TWICE and yet the writer and Lezhin don't care about the quality of their product that reaches me as a part of their english readers. then why cry over these " claimed" losses!

anyways, I didn't even get to the fact that actually, it is proven that most of pirate consumers would not buy the product anyways, whether the piracy stopped or not.
BUT at least a percentage of readers at this point would feel intrigued to buy the English copy IF and only IF it was right on time.
but hey !! they just want to sit down and cry about the world being a cruel place.. this is illegal and this is immoral.

alright,
and then ?
Solutions..

NO, we don't want to hear it :D

---

Simply, if you are not Korean, you are a second degree consumer who gets charged the same, gets lesser quality and they don't even bother to fix it. Just please don't hurt their feelings by reading an unofficial translation since your official one is full of mistakes at times because it HURTS their feelings !

---

The end of my rant really, hahaha.. phew, twitter is really a heated place

last edited at Nov 21, 2017 2:44PM

@Norah
Thank you for answering me very clearly. Although at some points I yet go thoroughly but I still can understand your saying as a reader who has fair paid ( I didn't, sadly ) and the author's reasonable matter, I do feel sorry for you and them.
P/s: You're brave as who daring to argue with authority to speak for readers right. It proved for your plausibility that they should pay more care on. Me (pirate consumer :( ) wouldn't say anything in the situation.

On a lighter note XDDDD, I recommend you guys to read Tamen de gushi if you guys are interested in some light story like Fluttering Feelings XDDDDDD. I havent tried reading it yet but my friends seem to like it.

The art is definitely not as awesome as wdtfs but its acceptable, and if you like the kind of story like FF, this story could be for you XDDDDDDD.

Methetruth

Thank you very much, I was a bit disappointed at the writer, other artists and at Lezhin as well. The sense of practicality and quality control let alone customer's experience enhancement are all together not there. I felt at some point that all that matters is the Korean reader while the English reader is a second degree even though they both pay the same for the product. after that talk, I am sorry to say that I sympathise less with them and the whole piracy matter.

yoonie0104

Thanks for the recommendation :D

Nora89

I'll just point out that Their Story (Tamen de gushi) is more a slice of life with a Yuri subplot rather than a Yuri manwha straight out like Fluttering Feelings or WDTFS.

Es0teric

hahahah, thank you very much for the warning XDD I barely think of Fluttering Feeling as a yuri XDD too innocent to be one. Now that I am unemployed, I can get educated and read some more XDDD

last edited at Nov 22, 2017 12:50PM

Es0teric

hahahah, thank you very much for the warning XDD I barely think of Fluttering Feeling as a yuri XDD too innocent to be one. Now that I am unemployed, I can get educated and read some more XDDD

I'd still recommend reading it as the dynamics between the characters is great and it's quite funny; just real slow in the Yuri developement.

Both Their Story and Fluttering Feelings are not yuri because they're shoujo ai. There's a bit of difference between the two.

Oh, so the English title for tamen de gushi is Their Story? Thanks for the information, xDDDDD, I havent even tried reading it yet, but I heard a lot from my friends, lol.

Their Story and Fluttering Feelings are the same type of story, together with Citrus, and some more. From what my friends have said, Their Story has a faster development between two girls than Fluttering Feelings, FF is real slowwwwwwwwwww, I honestly agree, lolll, but I still love FF, lol.

LustGreed

Depends if you are going by Japanese or American definitions ;) Since neither of these are from Japan we should probably just call them GL stories.

yoonie0104

Yeah Their Story and SQ: Begin W/Your Name! are the other titles for Tamen De Gushi.
Now is a good time to start reading Their Story though as it's finally moving forward in the GL romance department.

last edited at Nov 22, 2017 9:27PM

You guys were just saying in your previous statement that SQ and FF are not like "yuri enough". So I just use another Japanese term so I could differentiate them with other manwhas such as wdtfs, pulse etc..or maybe I just misunderstood it?(my apologies in advance haha) But anyway, I don't think they were more on slice of life since they're focusing on the (slow) build up of the protagonists feelings and relationship towards each other. Like, just because they don't go to bed and have sex right away would make it less of a "girls love" genre.

I'm glad that I read both (even tho FF was discontinued). SQ's previous chapters were really rewarding. Gives you the feeling like "It's worth the wait." Lol

last edited at Nov 23, 2017 1:08AM

Ah sorry no i didn't mean to imply that Their Story isn't "Yuri enough", just that not every chapter is about or contributes to the main couples romantic relationship. Not completely focusing on the main couples relationship has turned away some readers i noticed, even though the story has so many great attributes like Mophead and SJ's relationship. Which is why i tried to lower Nora's expectations a little.

On hind-site though I probably shouldn't have called the relationship a subplot though as that may have added to the misunderstanding :)

By the way Shoujo Ai is more an American term rather than Japanese

last edited at Nov 23, 2017 2:33AM