BlueBerry posted:

In real life, once something is broken, it can't be repaired.

Haha yep, because in real life, hardly many people can put down their ego and be willing to reveal all of their insecurities to other human beings... I guess mutual trust is often an issue.

I personally experienced what Emi got through and I can tell that that there's no way I would have taken the person back, even if hey begged (though in hindsight, I should have seen it coming, but hey, when you're in love, you only see what you want to see.)

If you can't trust the other in a relationship, it's as good as dead.

Unless you're the type of person who can do poly, for which I tip my hat to, because that's something I'm fundamentally incapable of doing.

Unless you're the type of person who can do poly, for which I tip my hat to, because that's something I'm fundamentally incapable of doing.

I don't think so, poly still need agreement of all participants. They're like a couple with different number.

If you can't trust the other in a relationship, it's as good as dead.

Unless you're the type of person who can do poly, for which I tip my hat to, because that's something I'm fundamentally incapable of doing.

Wait, what? I'm going to assume this is just really bad wording, since poly relationships require a lot of trust and faith. Particularly in a society that's so hostile to them.

I feel like I could almost like this, but I would need to have any insight at all into what Mayu was even thinking this entire time. Like, if Mayu had some halfway sympathetic reason for acting so insensitive and fickle, then maybe I could get behind it, but the story just gives me nothing to work with, so... I don't know. You can call it realistic if you like, but having a character go through all this bullshit and then asking zero questions about why any of it happened (or asking those questions offscreen, after the story's already over and we don't get to see it) isn't any sort of realism I find interesting or compelling. It's actually anti-interesting, if anything, because all the parts I would have to stop and consider are literally the parts the author cut from the story, so all they've left me with is a shitty thing happening to a girl who doesn't deserve it, and there's really nothing else to think about beyond that.

Nezchan posted:

If you can't trust the other in a relationship, it's as good as dead.

Unless you're the type of person who can do poly, for which I tip my hat to, because that's something I'm fundamentally incapable of doing.

Wait, what? I'm going to assume this is just really bad wording, since poly relationships require a lot of trust and faith. Particularly in a society that's so hostile to them.

I guess I just worded it poorly. Or the conjunction of my two sentences didn't work well. I didn't mean that trust is meaningless in a poly relationship, on the contrary.

I just meant that if you're in a (healthy) poly relationship, you cease to be possessive toward the other(s) and trust becomes somehow implied, because it wouldn't work without it. Then it becomes a non-issue. (still not sure I can express what I mean clearly though).

In my case, I meant that I'm just your average jealous possessive type and the mere idea that my girlfriend would fool around with someone else, with or without my knowledge, whether seriously or not, is a dead stopper.

That's more like an open-relationship argument then than a poly-relationship argument, I'd say.

Either way, I suppose I kinda like this manga for the discussion / that it's not so "clearly, this is X" - it can be taken multiple ways and you might appreciate them for giving love another chance or you might think they are foolish or you might be somewhere in between or whatever. That's certainly something I can appreciate.

But it still didn't really work for me, I have to say. Maybe if the author had more time to really develop the entire thing.

I just meant that if you're in a (healthy) poly relationship, you cease to be possessive toward the other(s) and trust becomes somehow implied, because it wouldn't work without it. Then it becomes a non-issue. (still not sure I can express what I mean clearly though).

Oh, there's definitely room for possessiveness in a poly relationship. It's just being possessive of more people, is all, and the insecurity of wondering if they're just as possessive of you. But short of being able to read minds, you just never know, whether it's poly or mono.

But there's a lesson there, that I think applies to this story. That is: Human relationships are messy. Very messy. It's hard to really make a definitive statement that something like the situation here, by the end of it, wouldn't work in the long run because...sometimes it does. By contrast, very orthodox situations that should work, don't. Connections between humans in the Real World (tm) are chaotic and often unpredictable, which I think is one reason fiction, with its more simplified arrangements, can be so satisfying.

oh man, this is my kind of drama.

Bisexuality ain't easy. People often think that being bisexual means double the fun. It's not. It's just being twice the confused, twice the anxious, twice the heartaches. And this portrays it pretty well. She was horrible, sure, but it's not like she's doing it out of malice. She's confused and anxious. She hurt her girlfriend pretty badly, but she was hurting too.

This feels realistic and I'm loving it

Am I legitimately reading "she can't help it, she's bisexual"

Not to mention "twice the anxiety and heartaches", how would you even know that or measure it? This whole comment is ridiculous.

This is me irl except it wasn't a happy ending

This is slice of life for sure... Is this would happen to me, I would let her go. Obviously she takes Emi for granted and doesn't take the relationship seriously. Someone like that deserves a big f*ck you.

I agree with the previous comments, when something like this happens it's almost impossible to fix. You might try again, but the underlying insecurities and blame will eventually reach a boilingpoint. You will be somewhat suspicious of each other the whole time, the trust is mostly gone after all. You basically convince yourself to try again because you're in love and don't want to lose your partner, but it almost never ends well. Too much damage has been done.

last edited at Nov 1, 2017 5:45PM

I don't get all the "it's good because it's realistic" comments. I'm very sorry for you if that is your reality and you're being strung around like that.

We find it more realistic because we're seeing a story where the asshole who's constantly screwing her "Girlfriend" over is finally being told that what she's doing is wrong. It's more realistic because in real life you don't simply take someone back after they break up with you out of nowhere, then one day they just come back and act like you and them never broke up in the first place. It's good to see that realism applied here.

Are you being sarcastic?

Umm, no.
I'm saying that Mayu, who is shown to be an inconsiderate ass here thinks that she can just repair her relationship with Emi with a simple "let's get back together" and everything will be ok. When that's not how things work at all in real life, and this Oneshot shows us a realistic outcome to the situation.

I don't get all the "it's good because it's realistic" comments. I'm very sorry for you if that is your reality and you're being strung around like that.

We find it more realistic because we're seeing a story where the asshole who's constantly screwing her "Girlfriend" over is finally being told that what she's doing is wrong. It's more realistic because in real life you don't simply take someone back after they break up with you out of nowhere, then one day they just come back and act like you and them never broke up in the first place. It's good to see that realism applied here.

Are you being sarcastic?

Umm, no.
I'm saying that Mayu, who is shown to be an inconsiderate ass here thinks that she can just repair her relationship with Emi with a simple "let's get back together" and everything will be ok. When that's not how things work at all in real life, and this Oneshot shows us a realistic outcome to the situation.

I asked because you are just wrong. Mayu is never told that what she is doing is wrong, not once. She even asks Emi why she kissed her thinking that Emi didn't think she did anything wrong. And Emi takes her back after Mayu just shows up like nothing happened. Mayu literally shows up one day, acts like it's no big deal, hangs out, has sex, and asks to get back together. There's nothing about this that is realistic according to your comment.

last edited at Nov 1, 2017 6:40PM

Umm, no.
I'm saying that Mayu, who is shown to be an inconsiderate ass here thinks that she can just repair her relationship with Emi with a simple "let's get back together" and everything will be ok. When that's not how things work at all in real life, and this Oneshot shows us a realistic outcome to the situation.

I asked because you are just wrong. Mayu is never told that what she is doing is wrong, not once. She even asks Emi why she kissed her thinking that Emi didn't think she did anything wrong.

Lol, I was referring to the end of the Oneshot. Right here, Emi pretty much tells Mayu how what she did was cruel and how It affected her.

"Do you have any idea what you did...? I'm amazed you can say that after tossing me around like that."

And Emi takes her back after Mayu just shows up like nothing happened.

It's saying is that Emi just broke down crying in front of Mayu explaining her feelings to her. No part of that scene implies that Emi took her back.

Mayu literally shows up one day, acts like it's no big deal, hangs out, has sex, and asks to get back together. There's nothing about this that is realistic according to your comment.

Do you realize that Emi was emotionally conflicted at that point? Mayu was toying around with her feelings, that scene doesn't support the fact that Emi took Mayu back, it supports the fact that Mayu is a shitty inconsiderate person.

No she didn't, she asks Mayu if she knows how Emi feels and she says "no". She doesnt seem to think thay what she did was wrong or even sorry for it.

No part of that scene says thay Emi said a god damn thing, it just ends with her crying. For all we know she just turned around and slammed the door in her face or just kissed her telling her that she loved her. Fact is that Mayu is never told thay what she did was wrong at any point in this one shot.

You are calling it realistic despite what we saw. The scene when Mayu just shows up to hang out and Emi let's her is the point where this manga lost all resemblance to reality.

No she didn't, she asks Mayu if she knows how Emi feels and she says "no". She doesnt seem to think thay what she did was wrong or even sorry for it.

I never said that Mayu realized that what she did was wrong.

No part of that scene says thay Emi said a god damn thing, it just ends with her crying. For all we know she just turned around and slammed the door in her face or just kissed her telling her that she loved her.

Now you're just contradicting yourself. Your previous post was literally saying that this Oneshot implied that Emi took Mayu back and now you're switching arguments so suddenly.

Fact is that Mayu is never told thay what she did was wrong at any point in this one shot.

She definitely said (or at least implied) that what Mayu did caused great stress to her. I don't see how that isn't pretty much the same thing as telling her that what she did was wrong since Mayu isn't dumb enough to not know that causing people stress is....Y'know....Wrong.

You are calling it realistic despite what we saw. The scene when Mayu just shows up to hang out and Emi let's her is the point where this manga lost all resemblance to reality.

I just said that Emi was emotionally conflicted when Mayu came by her place, meaning that she wasn't sure how she felt when Mayu came back. What exactly did you expect her to do? Kick her out?

last edited at Nov 1, 2017 10:26PM

This is me irl except it wasn't a happy ending

Good for you, if you're Emi irl.

This is very sad. But that what really happen in reality life. A bisexual gf always confuse which side should she choose. After a long term relationship with girl,soon enough she will felt she should start dated guy as well and secretly dated behind you. In the end she want to stay with both side. Well that happen on my life,Emi feeling and how dumb is she all was same as me :/

last edited at Nov 2, 2017 9:40AM

No she didn't, she asks Mayu if she knows how Emi feels and she says "no". She doesnt seem to think thay what she did was wrong or even sorry for it.

I never said that Mayu realized that what she did was wrong.

You literally said that Mayu was told that what she did was wrong, that in itself is wrong. The manga ends before that happens.

Now you're just contradicting yourself. Your previous post was literally saying that this Oneshot implied that Emi took Mayu back and now you're switching arguments so suddenly.

I'm not talking about what happened after the manga. I'm talking about Emi alloying Mayu to just waltz into her home, hang out with her and then had sex. She already took Mayu back.

She definitely said (or at least implied) that what Mayu did caused great stress to her. I don't see how that isn't pretty much the same thing as telling her that what she did was wrong since Mayu isn't dumb enough to not know that causing people stress is....Y'know....Wrong.

Except she never says that she caused her stress, she just acts astonished, she never actually told Mayu that she was wrong.

I just said that Emi was emotionally conflicted when Mayu came by her place, meaning that she wasn't sure how she felt when Mayu came back. What exactly did you expect her to do? Kick her out?

Yes, like an actual adult would have. An actual person would have questioned their lesbian girlfriend why they were dumping them for a man, they would have gotten upset, they would not have let them into their apartment right after the break up, they would have told them to go fuck themselves. Nothing about this manga is realistic, no one reacts like Emi does to this situation. And there is no one dumb enough like Mayu to just show up to hang out with the girl they literally just broke up with as if it wasn't a big deal. It's asinine melodrama story telling.

last edited at Nov 2, 2017 10:10AM

Nothing about this manga is realistic, no one reacts like Emi does to this situation. And there is no one dumb enough like Mayu to just show up to hang out with the girl they literally just broke up with as if it wasn't a big deal. It's asinine melodrama story telling.

You would be surprised how far from the truth what you are saying is, in real life. There are more than enough Mayus running around, and there are quite a bit of Emis too, who do cling to a relationship so hard they take their Mayus back (even though in this particular instance, we do not actually know if she did that).

Edit: Just to clarify, since I realised I should have quoted more of your post, to put it into context, her letting her inside was perfectly realistic. Some people, and I kind of suspect Emi probably has shades of this, cling to their love interests to the point they will accept any kind of social interaction, and they will even take their lovers back, if presented with the opportunity. Many people would tell Mayu to go fuck herself, but as I said, you would be surprised at the number of people who would not.

last edited at Nov 2, 2017 10:43AM

Waste of time. Garbage.

Double!

Edit: Just to clarify, since I realised I should have quoted more of your post, to put it into context, her letting her inside was perfectly realistic. Some people, and I kind of suspect Emi probably has shades of this, cling to their love interests to the point they will accept any kind of social interaction, and they will even take their lovers back, if presented with the opportunity. Many people would tell Mayu to go fuck herself, but as I said, you would be surprised at the number of people who would not.

And a few would have pulled out a knife and murdered them on the spot, doesn't make it realistic.

last edited at Nov 2, 2017 11:00AM

Edit: Just to clarify, since I realised I should have quoted more of your post, to put it into context, her letting her inside was perfectly realistic. Some people, and I kind of suspect Emi probably has shades of this, cling to their love interests to the point they will accept any kind of social interaction, and they will even take their lovers back, if presented with the opportunity. Many people would tell Mayu to go fuck herself, but as I said, you would be surprised at the number of people who would not.

And a few would have pulled out a knife and murdered them on the spot, doesn't make it realistic.

I'm not sure how this follows. The fact that some would be hostile doesn't invalidate that some wouldn't, therefore it's an option that really happens.

last edited at Nov 2, 2017 11:12AM

And a few would have pulled out a knife and murdered them on the spot, doesn't make it realistic.

If they were shown to be prone to violence, or otherwise unstable, then yes, that too would be realistic. Not here, though, since she is not presented as such character. The letting-her-awful-ex-inside, though, that can fly pretty easily. Seems like your definition of realistic is entirely based on what most people would do in a certain situation. And as I said, you would be surprised just how many people would be ready to do what Emi did here. Some of them repeatedly. With the same offender.

Edit: Just to clarify, since I realised I should have quoted more of your post, to put it into context, her letting her inside was perfectly realistic. Some people, and I kind of suspect Emi probably has shades of this, cling to their love interests to the point they will accept any kind of social interaction, and they will even take their lovers back, if presented with the opportunity. Many people would tell Mayu to go fuck herself, but as I said, you would be surprised at the number of people who would not.

And a few would have pulled out a knife and murdered them on the spot, doesn't make it realistic.

I'm not sure how this follows. The fact that some would be hostile doesn't invalidate that some wouldn't, therefore it's an option that really happens.

So literally everything that doesn't break the laws of physics can be considered realistic? Well, there goes another descriptive word in the "pointless" pile.

Not here, though, since she is not presented as such character.

Why not? Some people just snap. It would totally be realistic for Emi to murder Mayu. Most realistic heart throbbing story on Dynasty I would have to say.

It's not realistic, it's melodrama. It does not make any sense why Emi would accept the break up with a smile, it doesn't make sense that she doesn't say ask about her lesbian girlfriend deciding to go out with a man, it doesn't make sense that Mayu would just show up to hang out, it doesn't make sense that Emi would allow her without saying a word. Even in the most toxic relationships one person at always asks "why".

last edited at Nov 2, 2017 11:56AM

Emi is pretty clearly from the beginning portrayed as the kind of person who doesn't want to be any trouble, doesn't want to say or do anything that might embarrass either her or anyone else, doesn't want to make waves. She doesn't talk about her emotions or needs, especially when presented with a fait accompli; from her perspective that would just make things more uncomfortable without changing anything. She's repressed. There are a lot of people like that in real life; due to differences in upbringing unfortunately a lot more of them are girls than guys. And I think Japanese culture leads to a lot more Japanese people being like that than, say, Americans being like that. But it's not that uncommon anywhere. I don't think there's a serious argument to be made that this isn't realistic; the people claiming it isn't just aren't the polite, self-effacing type, and may never have paid much attention to anyone who is. (For the record, I'm clearly not that type, but I have paid attention to a fair number of people who are)

For someone like her it's a bit of a breakthrough that she was able, at the end, to actually say yes, I have feelings too, I have a point of view and it matters, I'm upset and that's an issue.

As a side note, I think there are some indications that Mayu does realize she did some heinous stuff. When they meet, and Emi tells her "You're the worst", she replies, "Yeah . . . the worst. That might be true." And at the end she doesn't just say she doesn't know, she says, "So tell me. I'll accept it, so tell me everything."

I'm far from being a Mayu fan. I probably wouldn't have taken her back, and if I did it would have been harder than that--probably. On the other hand, I remember when I was nuts about someone and how much pride I would probably have been willing to dump out the window for that. Anyway, there's plenty to get upset about in Mayu's behaviour in the actual manga. But some of the people talking about this are ignoring part of what's going on in the manga and instead getting upset about a one-sided version of it with important bits sort of psychologically removed. So for instance, lines like "What's with that? You think I'll just go 'sure'? You and I are nothing any more!" don't seem to exist for some of the ways people are reading this. And the way people talk about what she did keeps sliding back into the way people talk about cheating, even though what she did was something different. I love discussing stories, and it's fair enough that people's reactions to the stories reflect their hangups--what else will they reflect?--but I hate when people start mentally rewriting the stories to fit their reactions better.

last edited at Nov 2, 2017 1:01PM