why is there a gender bender tag ?

Well, that was indeed interesting, haha.

Nice read!

why is there a gender bender tag ?

Did you read the tag description?

hahaha, I forgot how funny this one shot was. funniest page in the whole thing (http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/gender_game#5).

that'll teach nosey wait staff for listening in on other people's conversations when they ought not.

Nice

"I prefer to top, I'm a butch"
"You could at least dress butch"

That kinda confused me, I'm not sure I know what femme/butch mean anymore, and what direct link it has on being top/bottom

"I prefer to top, I'm a butch"
"You could at least dress butch"

That kinda confused me, I'm not sure I know what femme/butch mean anymore, and what direct link it has on being top/bottom

In general, Butch is usually depicted as a top, and Femme as bottom, or so the stereotype would normally be. And butch is masculine, which femme is feminine.

"I prefer to top, I'm a butch"
"You could at least dress butch"

That kinda confused me, I'm not sure I know what femme/butch mean anymore, and what direct link it has on being top/bottom

In general, Butch is usually depicted as a top, and Femme as bottom, or so the stereotype would normally be. And butch is masculine, which femme is feminine.

Which is total bullshit.

"I prefer to top, I'm a butch"
"You could at least dress butch"

That kinda confused me, I'm not sure I know what femme/butch mean anymore, and what direct link it has on being top/bottom

In general, Butch is usually depicted as a top, and Femme as bottom, or so the stereotype would normally be. And butch is masculine, which femme is feminine.

Oh, thanks. Is that all there was to being butch/femme?

Which is total bullshit.

Tfw you've got both gender and lesbian expectations weighing on you
Mcs need a break from it all

last edited at May 3, 2016 4:01PM

"I prefer to top, I'm a butch"
"You could at least dress butch"

That kinda confused me, I'm not sure I know what femme/butch mean anymore, and what direct link it has on being top/bottom

In general, Butch is usually depicted as a top, and Femme as bottom, or so the stereotype would normally be. And butch is masculine, which femme is feminine.

Which is total bullshit.

Maybe so, but it was the norm for lesbian relationships for at least decades in the west, and still continues today to some degree. Like Fienberg's Stone Butch Blues was only in '93 but reflected strong roles in the lesbian community at the time.

Things have changed, but you still get butches and femmes even now. Not surprising Japan has run along much the same lines.

Faust posted:

Oh, thanks. Is that all there was to being butch/femme?

It is pretty much like seme/uke dynamic that just tries to mimic standard male top, female bottom way of thinking about het relationship. Typical attempt on making some standards and labels where they are not needed. One of main reasons why I got into yuri was because there was no such set roles in it.

Faust posted:

Oh, thanks. Is that all there was to being butch/femme?

It is pretty much like seme/uke dynamic that just tries to mimic standard male top, female bottom way of thinking about het relationship. Typical attempt on making some standards and labels where they are not needed. One of main reasons why I got into yuri was because there was no such set roles in it.

Almost all yuri is femme/femme. It's really rare to see anyone very butch at all, even the tomboys like Sun Jing in Their Story don't stray that far away. Ymir, maybe?

Faust posted:

Oh, thanks. Is that all there was to being butch/femme?

It is pretty much like seme/uke dynamic that just tries to mimic standard male top, female bottom way of thinking about het relationship. Typical attempt on making some standards and labels where they are not needed. One of main reasons why I got into yuri was because there was no such set roles in it.

Almost all yuri is femme/femme. It's really rare to see anyone very butch at all, even the tomboys like Sun Jing in Their Story don't stray that far away. Ymir, maybe?

"Modern" yuri or like, old school ones included?
Idk if it's just a few for old school, but I've been reading some of the Non-moe art one shots and there was A San Francisco Story, Double House with the mc with shorter and shorter hair maybe. I haven't checked out that many yet, but I have a slight feeling there might be more.

last edited at May 3, 2016 4:27PM

Faust posted:

Oh, thanks. Is that all there was to being butch/femme?

It is pretty much like seme/uke dynamic that just tries to mimic standard male top, female bottom way of thinking about het relationship. Typical attempt on making some standards and labels where they are not needed. One of main reasons why I got into yuri was because there was no such set roles in it.

Almost all yuri is femme/femme. It's really rare to see anyone very butch at all, even the tomboys like Sun Jing in Their Story don't stray that far away. Ymir, maybe?

"Modern" yuri or like, old school ones included?
Idk if it's just a few for old school, but I've been reading some of the Non-moe art one shots and there was A San Francisco Story, Double House with the mc with shorter and shorter hair maybe. I haven't checked out that many yet, but I have a slight feeling there might be more.

There are a couple in the Mist Magazine stuff, and A San Francisco Story would count I think. And Yamaji Ebine's stuff. But it's still pretty rare.

Speaking of the Non-moe art ones tho, they are kinda fascinating, a lot are adult life and dramatic/dark
It's like all the cute, fluffy school girl ones we have now are making up for it, with how much it contrasts

Nezchan posted:

Faust posted:

Oh, thanks. Is that all there was to being butch/femme?

It is pretty much like seme/uke dynamic that just tries to mimic standard male top, female bottom way of thinking about het relationship. Typical attempt on making some standards and labels where they are not needed. One of main reasons why I got into yuri was because there was no such set roles in it.

Almost all yuri is femme/femme. It's really rare to see anyone very butch at all, even the tomboys like Sun Jing in Their Story don't stray that far away. Ymir, maybe?

I don't have anything against tomboys but I prefer my yuri with 2 girly girls. Usually when series makes one of girl more tomoby-ish you can clearly feel it is only so we can see them as "normal" couple. It can be done well or reversed, but that is just my preference so majority of yuri being femme/femme is working just fine for me. When one is tomboy they usually are the one on top and follows other boring rules. With two femme/femme you can have way more interesting dynamics between them.

Years ago I didn't understand this but now I got enough knowledge to understand this and this is great

So I'm assuming from the context that "butch" and "femme" here were originally tachi and neko?

Faust posted:

Oh, thanks. Is that all there was to being butch/femme?

It is pretty much like seme/uke dynamic that just tries to mimic standard male top, female bottom way of thinking about het relationship. Typical attempt on making some standards and labels where they are not needed. One of main reasons why I got into yuri was because there was no such set roles in it.

Almost 10 years later lol
I don’t understand why yaoi is always brought up in these discussion lol but yuri being “free” from roles doesn’t mean irl japanese lesbians are, if you read autobiographical works like Honey & Honey, butch is tachi and femme is neko (that is thanks to the TL as they don’t use butch exactly, but the author says that although there are fem/oneesama tops and masc bottoms, the majority of nekos are femenine and tachis masculine) more newer works like Seibetsu X show that in blind dates in lesbian bars you have to specify if you are Tachi, Neko or Riba

last edited at Dec 15, 2025 10:54AM

I don’t understand why yaoi is always brought up in these discussion lol but yuri being “free” from roles doesn’t mean irl japanese lesbians are, if you read autobiographical works like Honey & Honey, butch is tachi and femme is neko (that is thanks to the TL as they don’t use butch exactly, but the author says that although there are fem/oneesama tops and masc bottoms, the majority of nekos are femenine and tachis masculine) more newer works like Seibetsu X show that in blind dates in lesbian bars you have to specify if you are Tachi, Neko or Riba

thank you for saying this. it's a relic of an older era of scanlation tbh, and the strictly defined roles IS a thing with japanese lesbians (for better or for worse). so the setup is that you have two tops, but "top" usually means "masculine" which is subverted. also holy shit this is old school