Very cute. Hope they end up as vampire friends forever!

I don't. What happened?

It started with the yuri tag, because the scanlation team read ahead and saw it was yuri, but the first few chapters were a bit tame, so people were dogging to get the tag changed to subtext.

Now it's subtext but the chapters are starting to pick up and the same people complaining before are now wanting the tag changed back to yuri but we're now just mocking them: "they're just gal pals doing friend stuff as friends."

I've read Vol. 1-3 of Futaribeya and the yuri level is so low there that you can basically say it's your average CGDCT subtext manga with some fanservice here and there.

i think you can tell from reading like 1-2 chapters that its just subtext and an average CGDCT.

I've read Vol. 1-3 of Futaribeya and the yuri level is so low there that you can basically say it's your average CGDCT subtext manga with some fanservice here and there.

i think you can tell from reading like 1-2 chapters that its just subtext and an average CGDCT.

EXPN CGDCT?

I don't. What happened?

It started with the yuri tag, because the scanlation team read ahead and saw it was yuri, but the first few chapters were a bit tame, so people were dogging to get the tag changed to subtext.

Now it's subtext but the chapters are starting to pick up and the same people complaining before are now wanting the tag changed back to yuri but we're now just mocking them: "they're just gal pals doing friend stuff as friends."

I've read Vol. 1-3 of Futaribeya and the yuri level is so low there that you can basically say it's your average CGDCT subtext manga with some fanservice here and there.

Except for the kissing and the declaration of being a couple and Yukiko tagging it as yuri on their Pixiv.

Someone had to turn Irie into a bloodsucking fiend of the night. If it'd been a girl vampire, it would've complicated the yuri romantic picture. Hence: Comic Relief Dude Vampire.

I'm... Not sure that follows? If other people are right that the series isn't especially hard on the romance, and is just cute girls being gay as heck, then having a character who's a mentor in vampirism and yuri alike seems like it would've been fine? Would it have been that bad to flirt with her, as well?

Even then, I don't feel like I'm really complaining about the vampire dude being part of the story. I'm not even necessarily complaining about the story being set up in such a way that he only bit her because he was thirsty (in every sense of the word) and is heavily implied to have gotten off on what was pretty literally assault and quite metaphorically sexual.

I'm mainly confused about why the author made all these deliberate, intentional, and entirely optional decisions about the story and the very first thing that happened in it, if they were just going to say "Actually, forget about that, it's not important at all, let's get to the lesbian vampire schoolgirl thirsting after her buddies already".

I mean, maybe I wouldn't have been as bothered if the slacker vampire was a lady, and I am just being kneejerk oversensitive about having dudes in my yuri or whatever, but whether it's a guy slacker or a girl slacker, I still feel like being expected to forget about the entire inciting incident of the story is really weird, regardless of what it is or how important it's supposed to be in the long run?

If it wasn't important at all, wouldn't it be simpler to use some other goofier or more neutral reason for her vampirism, like if she had just always been a vampire unknowingly and had only awakened to it recently, or that she'd gotten into an accident and turning her was the only way to save her life? With either of those, it's even easier to have an excuse for the exact same slacker vampire dude to hang around, like if he's some distant vampire relative who's been told to show her the ropes, or that she feels indebted to him for saving her life and is giving him a place to stay in return. As it is, you run the risk of weirdos like me thinking it's kind of creepy for the guy who attacked her to just be living in her house for no reason and getting unnecessarily hung up on it.

I don't know. I've been having this problem with a few cute fun comedies overcomplicating their cute fun scenarios and making everything less cute and less fun and more creepy as a result, so maybe I have to accept that it's just a genre thing that I don't have a taste for.

this is definitely a story I'm going to be following! I'm calling it now, Nana is gonna turn at some point so that she and Yuu can live together forever. No dead lesbians around here :)

Also if I was immortal I would probably watch every anime and read every manga that alone would take up a couple of lifetimes all while sipping blood from a big gulp

Even then, I don't feel like I'm really complaining about the vampire dude being part of the story. I'm not even necessarily complaining about the story being set up in such a way that he only bit her because he was thirsty (in every sense of the word) and is heavily implied to have gotten off on what was pretty literally assault and quite metaphorically sexual.

I'm mainly confused about why the author made all these deliberate, intentional, and entirely optional decisions about the story and the very first thing that happened in it, if they were just going to say "Actually, forget about that, it's not important at all, let's get to the lesbian vampire schoolgirl thirsting after her buddies already".

I had the same thoughts at first, but I agree with the argument that Rin was probably just meant to be the catalyst for the plot. He may have been aroused, but Yuunagi's reaction to him sucking her blood wasn't even shown. That would be a pretty big thing to skip if she was meant to be attracted to him eventually. But yeah, the first few pages appear to set up a completely different story than what this will (apparently) turn out to be.
For what it's worth, the author said it's yuri on her blog. There's a post from September 2015 where she reassures people about Rin, but Japanese is hard and I'd just mistranslate it if I tried, but if she says it's yuri, I think we can trust her.

EXPN CGDCT?

"Cute girls doing cute things" (usually an all-female cast with minimal plot and various amounts of yuri subtext).

Some of the best yuri series have male characters in it, people really need to get over already. It's tagged yuri for a reason despite the uploaded chapters not showing anything concrete to base it on.

^ Yeah, I like yuri stories that have male characters (that aren't one-dimensional antagonists), so you know the girls don't just fall in love with each other because there aren't boys around. I think Rin is harmless... apart from the whole "turning the main character into a vampire" thing. They're a great comedic duo so far.

I had the same thoughts at first, but I agree with the argument that Rin was probably just meant to be the catalyst for the plot. He may have been aroused, but Yuunagi's reaction to him sucking her blood wasn't even shown. That would be a pretty big thing to skip if she was meant to be attracted to him eventually.

I'm not even worried about this turning het or setting up romantic tension between Irie and Slacker Vampire, and I don't expect that something bad is going to happen later in the story because of it. I just feel a bit creeped out knowing that (A) he's attracted to her, (B) he's already acted on that attraction by attacking her once, (C) he doesn't think much of attacking people if he wants it enough and can make them forget about it later, and (D) he's still going to live with her in her house for no reason at all.

Even if the author wants us to think of him as a harmless weirdo, and is trying to help us think of him as a harmless weirdo by making Irie treat him like a harmless weirdo, it would have been utterly trivial to set up the story so that he actually is a harmless weirdo, instead of making him do something that is by definition not harmless and then just using him as a harmless weirdo gag character anyway. If none of this is supposed to mean anything, then it was a bizarre and counterproductive choice to include it. It's a weird distraction that has no reason to exist, and it would have been incredibly easy for the author to arrive at this exact same scenario in a way that is simultaneously less creepy and less contrived. But they didn't. That's my problem.

I had the same thoughts at first, but I agree with the argument that Rin was probably just meant to be the catalyst for the plot. He may have been aroused, but Yuunagi's reaction to him sucking her blood wasn't even shown. That would be a pretty big thing to skip if she was meant to be attracted to him eventually.

I'm not even worried about this turning het or setting up romantic tension between Irie and Slacker Vampire, and I don't expect that something bad is going to happen later in the story because of it. I just feel a bit creeped out knowing that (A) he's attracted to her, (B) he's already acted on that attraction by attacking her once, (C) he doesn't think much of attacking people if he wants it enough and can make them forget about it later, and (D) he's still going to live with her in her house for no reason at all.

Even if the author wants us to think of him as a harmless weirdo, and is trying to help us think of him as a harmless weirdo by making Irie treat him like a harmless weirdo, it would have been utterly trivial to set up the story so that he actually is a harmless weirdo, instead of making him do something that is by definition not harmless and then just using him as a harmless weirdo gag character anyway. If none of this is supposed to mean anything, then it was a bizarre and counterproductive choice to include it. It's a weird distraction that has no reason to exist, and it would have been incredibly easy for the author to arrive at this exact same scenario in a way that is simultaneously less creepy and less contrived. But they didn't. That's my problem.

you guys really took this line about sexual thing going on with the bite too far into nonsensical delusions fueled by each other.

Especially considering that the manga itself did not even hint at such extremes these delusions have taken things to.

To be expected from dynasty scans comment sections, not really surprised.

last edited at Feb 14, 2017 7:02AM

you guys really took this line about sexual thing going on with the bite too far into nonsensical delusions fueled by each other.

Especially considering that the manga itself did not even hint at such extremes these delusions have taken things to.

To be expected from dynasty scans comment sections, not really surprised.

Nah, to be honest I didn't think of any sexual implications for Rin and Yuunagi until it was pointed out (I'm kind of dense). Knowing it's yuri according to people who have seen the raws, it looks like the kind of thing you're supposed to shrug off and forget about, but that doesn't work for everyone.
Sorry, I'm not trying to sound antagonistic but I'm not wording things well. Basically I'm shrugging and saying "to each their own".

Although I guess it would have been funny if Rin had tripped over nothing and accidentally bitten Yuunagi like some sort of cliché clumsy protagonist.

Also, people seems to think that Rin "chose" Yuu, but even him didn't know biting her would actually turn her and he certainly didn't plan on it. The whole "biting has sexual undertone" might also just be him having fun at Yuu's reluctance to bite people.

So far, he's mostly there to serve as info dump about vampires, even him staying at Yuu's place is probably just a convenient way to have him around without wasting pages on Yuu going to see him or him poping out of nowhere convenientely. He's already there and can give his information any moment, I see it as narrative convenience, nothing more.

you guys really took this line about sexual thing going on with the bite too far into nonsensical delusions fueled by each other.

Especially considering that the manga itself did not even hint at such extremes these delusions have taken things to.

To be expected from dynasty scans comment sections, not really surprised.

There's really no need to call people out and rudely dismiss what they say as delusions, especially when they actually tried to lay out where they're coming from + it didn't even seem vitriolic in any way (which is more than I can say about others). I had to double-check to see that this really is the comments section of a manga tagged with 'comedy' and yet quite a few of these comments have no chill.

Someone had to turn Irie into a bloodsucking fiend of the night. If it'd been a girl vampire, it would've complicated the yuri romantic picture. Hence: Comic Relief Dude Vampire.

I'm... Not sure that follows?

Is it plausible? That's the real question you should be asking. We're not doing a mathematical proof here. This is Kremlinology. We're second-guessing an author's intentions based on indirect info.

I'm mainly confused about why the author made all these deliberate, intentional, and entirely optional decisions about the story and the very first thing that happened in it, if they were just going to say "Actually, forget about that, it's not important at all, let's get to the lesbian vampire schoolgirl thirsting after her buddies already".

I think it's very, very likely that you are putting waaaaaaaaaaaay more thought into this than the author did. You are overanalyzing something that was never meant to be analyzed, much less overanalyzed.

And don't get me wrong: That's great fun. I do it myself. I can entertain myself for hours asking questions like "In the Ice Age movies, who does Diego eat?" He's a feline, so he's an obligate carnivore, which means he must eat meat to survive. And yet all the animals are sentient and sapient. So who does he eat? What are the implications for Sid and Manny? Surely they know that he's off eating some sentient creature whenever he gets hungry. Does that make them willing accomplices to his acts of murder? Are they turning a blind eye simply because they like him?

But I recognize that I'm pondering ramifications that were never meant to be pondered. It is almost a 100% certainty that Diego the Sabre-toothed Tiger was put in as a character because someone thought it would be cool to have a sabre-toothed tiger as a character, and for absolutely no other reason.

So while it's fun and enjoyable for me to ponder these things, I also know that I'm spinning my wheels for no reason other than my own amusement. I think you're probably doing the same thing with your analysis of Vampire Slacker Dude. He seems to exist as (A) a catalyst for the main plot; and (B) a source of cheap comedy. I would be very surprised indeed to discover that the author put much more thought than that into him.

The alternative is that the author did indeed consider all of the things you're considering, and thought about all the ramifications you're thinking about, and put in the Vampire Slacker Dude anyways. Which, I think you'll agree, would imply some mildly ugly things about the author. Since I have no reason to believe the author is guilty of those ugly things, I think Occam's Razor suggests that the author is just going for cheap laughs.

As Sigmund Freud once (allegedly) said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

last edited at Feb 14, 2017 9:43AM

As Sigmund Freud once (allegedly) said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Freud, not allegedly this time, also said that we all want to kill our father and have sex with our mother. [The opposite for girls].
Not sure if we should blindly follow what he said ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

last edited at Feb 14, 2017 10:35AM

Maybe a vampire is just a vampire. Maybe he lied to her, and he's actually killed thousands of humans over the centuries and loves doing stuff for shits and giggles.
Maybe vampires are cold, cruel, brutal and savage beings.
Maybe vampire are actually sacred and should not be turned into "cute" things. One can hope right? ;_;

Freud, not allegedly this time, also said that we all want to kill our father and have sex with our mother. [The opposite for girls].
Not sure if we should blindly follow what he said ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Freud had a lot of "funny" ideas indeed.

last edited at Feb 14, 2017 11:43AM

So while it's fun and enjoyable for me to ponder these things, I also know that I'm spinning my wheels for no reason other than my own amusement. I think you're probably doing the same thing with your analysis of Vampire Slacker Dude. He seems to exist as (A) a catalyst for the main plot; and (B) a source of cheap comedy. I would be very surprised indeed to discover that the author put much more thought than that into him.

Well, yes. I do agree. I don't think the author did it intentionally. At worst, I think the author may have been a bit careless. And I certainly have written a frankly excessive amount about this. But I didn't get the creepy feeling by analysing it, I got the creepy feeling by reading it for the first time with no expectations and reacting to it naturally. The analysing came afterwards, when I wanted to know exactly what I found off-putting about it, and whether it really was just an irrational fear of yuri dudes, which is apparently an awful scourge of yuri comments sections everywhere. So even if I'm told not to think about it so much, that only gets me as far as being unable to identify why I felt uncomfortable, if I should expect more of whatever it is from the story in the future, or if the problem is actually me and some weird hangup that I need to get over by myself.

Even then, that process took me all of ten minutes to think about. It was never that deep. The weird and complicated and excessive part came from repeatedly trying to explain my thoughts to others, because I felt unable to get my reasoning across. Saying it in general terms didn't work, so I said it in more specific terms, and when saying it in more specific terms didn't work, I gave a point-by-point explanation of what I thought and why I thought it, and when I gave a point-by-point explanation of what I thought and why I thought it, I was told I'd analysed it too much. So fuck me, really. I should've quit when I was only slightly behind.

As Sigmund Freud (allegedly) said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

And sometimes a vampire has been a metaphor for sexual politics ever since it was first put to paper and this actual manga used its second chapter to explicitly connect its own form of vampirism to sexual desire and pleasure, as if it was a central theme of the manga. But I guess that's looking at it too deep.

Well, yes. I do agree. I don't think the author did it intentionally. At worst, I think the author may have been a bit careless. And I certainly have written a frankly excessive amount about this. But I didn't get the creepy feeling by analysing it, I got the creepy feeling by reading it for the first time with no expectations and reacting to it naturally. The analysing came afterwards, when I wanted to know exactly what I found off-putting about it

And that's fine. I'm certainly not telling you that you're wrong, nor that your analysis is invalid. Death of the author means that there are no privileged interpretations. Nobody (not even the author) gets to say "THIS is what this work means, and all other interpretations are wrong." (Most days I'm a firm believer in the death of the author. There are, however, days when I harbor a black suspicion that it's just something literature professors came up with because they were tired of having their analyses challenged with "Well the AUTHOR OF THE WORK says that she meant...")

My point was simply that this work probably doesn't benefit from too much thought. Which is hard to avoid if you're the kind of person (like me!) who likes to think about stuff. So I get it. Really, I do. (Seriously. Ever seen the kiddie show "Meteor and the Mighty Monster Trucks". There are clearly cars in the world of the Mighty Monster Trucks, because every episode features the monster trucks driving over some. Are they sentient like the monster trucks are? Is their world one of never-ending horror? Are they hunted down by roving bands of monster trucks?)

and whether it really was just an irrational fear of yuri dudes, which is apparently an awful scourge of yuri comments sections everywhere. So even if I'm told not to think about it so much, that only gets me as far as being unable to identify why I felt uncomfortable, if I should expect more of whatever it is from the story in the future, or if the problem is actually me and some weird hangup that I need to get over by myself.

Look, for what it's worth, my comments to you specifically have been essayed in a congenial and collegial tone. That was how I intended it, at any rate. If they've caused you distress (and it seems that maybe they have), my apologies. You seem like a sharp cookie, and I enjoy this kind of discussion, as evidenced by my ability to ramble on and on about it. (You should see the three paragraphs I deleted!)

Also a good illustration of semiotics/death of the author. My intent don't mean beans. Communication is mediated. You bring your own personality and experiences to the table when you interpret a given work. Even a work like a message forum post.

As Sigmund Freud (allegedly) said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

And sometimes a vampire has been a metaphor for sexual politics ever since it was first put to paper and this actual manga used its second chapter to explicitly connect its own form of vampirism to sexual desire and pleasure, as if it was a central theme of the manga. But I guess that's looking at it too deep.

Sure, vampires have been used as a rape metaphor since God wore a serafuku. Though these days I think that has been thoroughly surpassed by the "Vampires as superheroes with an unusual diet" approach.

I guess my question is: Would the vampire in this manga still be a rape metaphor if it were female?

Exactly the kind of story I wanted when I spotted that vampire tag

Vankomycin posted:

Nobody (not even the author) gets to say "THIS is what this work means, and all other interpretations are wrong." (Most days I'm a firm believer in the death of the author.

I cannot disagree with this more. It doesn't matter that your own personal interpretation is wrong. You are free to interpret it however you like. The author definitely does, however, have the right and authority to say you are interpreting it incorrectly. After all, they kinda wrote it. Nobody knows what was intended better than they do.

Vankomycin posted:

Nobody (not even the author) gets to say "THIS is what this work means, and all other interpretations are wrong." (Most days I'm a firm believer in the death of the author.

I believe you should be careful with this statement. While I do agree that anyone can interpret a work differently, and those interpretations wouldn't be necessarily wrong, there are some people who can thoroughly misread a work; and in that case, the author- rather than should, has to enlighten them.

Contextualizing a bit, and following your aforementioned statement, it's like saying nazi's interpretations of Nietzsche weren't wrong, and that the latter [if he had been alive] shouldn't have said anything. I'm exaggerating purposely, but you got my point.

Vankomycin posted:

Nobody (not even the author) gets to say "THIS is what this work means, and all other interpretations are wrong." (Most days I'm a firm believer in the death of the author.

I cannot disagree with this more. It doesn't matter that your own personal interpretation is wrong. You are free to interpret it however you like. The author definitely does, however, have the right and authority to say you are interpreting it incorrectly. After all, they kinda wrote it. Nobody knows what was intended better than they do.

The author may have intended to convey a certain meaning. That doesn't mean he/she succeeded in doing so. The author is not infallible.

The author may have also created additional meaning he/she never intended to create. See "author not infallible" above.

In addition, all commuincation is mediated. Or, to put it another way, interpretation of a work is an active act, not a passive one. Each person brings their own personalities and experiences and biases and prejudices to the table when they interpret a work. A person raised in rural Zimbabwe is not going to take away the same interpretation of Romeo and Juliet as a person raised in urban London. So even if the author were infallible, he/she still wouldn't be able to convey his/her thoughts with 100% accuracy, because reasonable people with good intentions can still come away with wildly varying interpretations of the same piece of media.

Certainly, there are common and uncommon interpretations of a given work. And authors with talent and skill can usually create a work such that the common interpretations of that work jibe with his/her intentions. But the uncommon interpretations are just as valid (and occasionally more interesting).

Yeah, no, still ain't that convincing. A wrong interpretation is just that, wrong. Over analyzing and trying to force a message that isn't there is not magically valid. You can have an opinion, but to say that your opinion is what the piece is trying to convey despite opposition from the author then you are no more less wrong. Creators have the power of "Word of God" and can say that your interpretation is wrong.

Yeah, no, still ain't that convincing.

shrug

The notion that the author's intent isn't privileged is one of the cornerstones of modern literary critical theory. This ain't just me, some guy on the Internet, making shit up.