^ That's a relief to hear. And I can understand where you're coming from; in a way I'm probably putting too much emotional investment into Hotaru's character which is why I felt sorry for her. But I do know how tiresome it can be to see someone "constantly throw themselves into fire", or so to speak.

Oh shiet, I'm kinda excited
I'm pretty excfited and happy about it actually, altho first finding out about Netsuzou Trap getting one legit made me laugh, even tho I do enjoy it too. It is pretty popular in Japan, but wow still.
I personally think it's great, it's been a while since the last yuri anime there just aren't many at all

Well, whatever western fans think of the series, Japanese fans clearly like it (and Citrus) because both seem to be doing quite well.

True. But there are some people that claim popular is different than being good. Imo indifference is the opposite of like. In this case, I think people love to hate this, but they are still somehow attracted to read more. Obviously everyone, but some of them at least.
It's a different type of yuri we haven't had since a long time.

@ Rina

I'm glad there are people who like this too. It's refreshing to read positive reactions.

I think people are too quick to judge this, because in the beggning there are too many things going wrong. When I first read NTR I didn't like Hotaru either. I did share the same opinion as some other people who dislike it. But after a while, we can see that she is more than what it seems to be. She genuenly cares for Yuma, even though her ways were not always right. This shows in chapter 8, where we can see their background and when Hotaru first got a boyfriend.
I believe Kodama has done a very good job with her character. Of course there are some clihes too though. But it's up to the reader to decide if they ruin the story for them.

But of course, angst and more dark themed mangas tend to be avoided by some readers. To me, I just like angst. I wouldn't want to watch yuris like this all the time, but once in a while it brings a balance between all the fluffy and subtext yuri we usually get.

last edited at Nov 15, 2016 4:31PM

@Rina I get your point too, the first 4 or 5 chapters i did feel bad for her, but when she never tried to do anything to get out of those situations and got herself and the other girl into more trouble, i just didn't care anymore. Maybe i'll give it another shot and try to see it in another perspective in the near future though.

@Faust There has been plenty of anime with yuri elements on it, but you're right, this is the first time in a while where the yuri is the main selling point. Kinda excited for that fact alone, maybe its a sign that we would get more and more yuri in the future? I'm getting ahead of myself here now.

@Faust There has been plenty of anime with yuri elements on it, but you're right, this is the first time in a while where the yuri is the main selling point. Kinda excited for that fact alone, maybe its a sign that we would get more and more yuri in the future? I'm getting ahead of myself here now.

With yuri not just present in subtle or less subtle ways (ngl, many not passing the limits of subtext), but actually as the genre of the work

NTR Trap has always felt male gazey to me, there's this way Kodama draws them, presents them. I wonder (+sorta fear) how male gazey the anime will be >_>

@Rina I get your point too, the first 4 or 5 chapters i did feel bad for her, but when she never tried to do anything to get out of those situations and got herself and the other girl into more trouble, i just didn't care anymore. Maybe i'll give it another shot and try to see it in another perspective in the near future though.

Understandably so.

Still, hope you could find some new insight or appreciation for Hotaru's character or the manga in general from another perspective.

last edited at Nov 15, 2016 5:00PM

@Faust There has been plenty of anime with yuri elements on it, but you're right, this is the first time in a while where the yuri is the main selling point. Kinda excited for that fact alone, maybe its a sign that we would get more and more yuri in the future? I'm getting ahead of myself here now.

With yuri not just present in subtle or less subtle ways (ngl, many not passing the limits of subtext), but actually as the genre of the work

NTR Trap has always felt male gazey to me, there's this way Kodama draws them, presents them. I wonder (+sorta fear) how male gazey the anime will be >_>

Yeah, it does feel like that since even one of the male characters tries to have a 3P with the girls. Still, i hope they don't handle the series like a hentai or an ero-anime.

@Rina I get your point too, the first 4 or 5 chapters i did feel bad for her, but when she never tried to do anything to get out of those situations and got herself and the other girl into more trouble, i just didn't care anymore. Maybe i'll give it another shot and try to see it in another perspective in the near future though.

Understandably so.

Still, hope you could find some new insight or appreciation for Hotaru's character or the manga in general from another perspective.

I'll try to watch it again once there's more chapters. I think the reason that i didn't like it that much is because the amount of chapters they were out were few when i started reading it. Maybe once there are more, i could legit start to care about the characters.

NTR Trap has always felt male gazey to me, there's this way Kodama draws them, presents them. I wonder (+sorta fear) how male gazey the anime will be >_>

Tbh I wouldn't mind if this was as echii as it is in the manga. To me the fanservice is normal, not something over the top, like say VDM.
But echii genre most of the time is judged poorly by the audiences. And if we take into account the already controversial nature of this manga, it will be an exploding situation imo. So only for this reason I think it should be better it they make it more age approapirate.
Since there are two canon yuri anime in one year centered on the romance exclusively and not as subplots or purely for fanservice, I think they should try to make it as appealing as possible.

NTR Trap has always felt male gazey to me, there's this way Kodama draws them, presents them. I wonder (+sorta fear) how male gazey the anime will be >_>

Tbh I wouldn't mind if this was as echii as it is in the manga. To me the fanservice is normal, not something over the top, like say VDM.
But echii genre most of the time is judged poorly by the audiences. And if we take into account the already controversial nature of this manga, it will be an exploding situation imo. So only for this reason I think it should be better it they make it more age approapirate.
Since there are two canon yuri anime in one year centered on the romance exclusively and not as subplots or purely for fanservice, I think they should try to make it as appealing as possible.

Sexual objectification of women is common, but I wouldn't call it "normal", but maybe it's just me who's not always up for it. But I do agree with how it's the "nature" of the manga, I've almost forgot. The title already word plays on "NTR", the story has always had a sexual nature to it, true.
But I mean, the fanservice, it feels like it was drawn for men in particular, yknow? That's why I specified with the 'male gaze', and not just 'fanservice'.
The covers/chapter covers remind me of those of hentai anime, actually. The way they pose the girls.
I went to look for some pics:

There's that certain way the fanservice is, yknow?
Maybe it's just me, but that's what it reminds me of

Well, whatever western fans think of the series, Japanese fans clearly like it (and Citrus) because both seem to be doing quite well.

True. But there are some people that claim popular is different than being good. Imo indifference is the opposite of like. In this case, I think people love to hate this, but they are still somehow attracted to read more. Obviously everyone, but some of them at least.
It's a different type of yuri we haven't had since a long time.

Well, it's kind of fun to get your blood up over something, particularly something safe to dislike. People like horror because it elicits strong reactions, and so do soap operas when you get really into the characters. I think a similar mechanic is at play, at least with the western fans who keep on reading despite complaints.

I don't hate this series. The only reason I don't read it is because it has too much drama and angst and I'm not ready to invest into characters and give my feels if it isn't going to end in yuri. I'm willing to read it if I know for sure they end up together in mostly positive way. So I probably watch anime once it ends and I get confirmation how it ends.

I did hear a good bit about progress in the series and read thread for some time and from what I heard I agree Hotaru is pretty conflicted and sympathetic character. It might look like she goes too far sometimes, but I can get behind her reasoning and can't really hate her. So I'm totally ok with this series being adapted.

@ Faust

Not only men read this type of fanservice though. So I wouldn't call it necesserily male gaze, just simply fanservice.
Objectification is used in a negative way. But not all sexually suggestive actions are automatically derogative. Following this logic pretty much every anime could be viewed as such. We could even say it when a girl wears a dress that shows a bit of her cleavage.

NTR fanservice is not similar to what you posted above. Those are hentai ones and obviously there are panty shots, etc and more provocative poses. Also I assume way more happen in these shows than what the covers simply show.
Even if they chose to make NTR an echii type, they won't go to this level for sure. But imo a bit of fanservice in some yuri shows is not bad, whatever target audience they might have on mind.

People have wondered if Citrus has enough content for an anime, where it would end, but what about NTrap tho? It's half as long, and I feel like, in a way, not much has actually happened.
Or rather, things happen, but it's hard to sum up/separate the events at times, I'm just left with a vague idea of things

• Current relationship statuses/progression
• Amusement park
• Takeda tries to raise the sex flag
• Group trip (which includes snowboarding, flirting, Yuma/Hotaru tension, HotaruxFujiwara, more Yuma/Hotaru tension)
• Tension between Yuma/Takeda, Yuma suspects something is wrong with Hotaru's relationship, Hotaru confronting Yuma with "You're my cheating partner" = Yuma's denial
• Hotaru's suspected abuse, Yuma confronting Fujiwara, but forgetting about Takeda
• Yuma and Takeda break up, Hotaru "comforts" Yuma, Fujiwara catches them
• Blackmail
• Slice of life feel but Hotaru is distant?
• Drama (idr so this is just vagueness)
• Cram school + hostess part time job
• [I forgot what lead to this but] Takeda walks into Yuma and Hotaru in the infirmary, dun dun dun

Hm, I guess they probs do have enough content, lots of dialogue in there. Probably.

last edited at Nov 15, 2016 8:06PM

Macysan

Not only men read this type of fanservice though. So I wouldn't call it necesserily male gaze, just simply fanservice.

Male gazey fanservicey IS intended for a male audience, hence the term "MALE gaze". The same way that, when you watch Free!, you do realise that it was meant for a female audience. It doesn't mean guys can't enjoy, but it's obvious that Free!'s fanservice was done for the female eye
I'm not sure how to put it into words, but there's a different feel to it, you can generally tell/feel, when something is more male gazey.
Actually, fanservice depicting women IS the male gaze. Media generally doesn't sexualize women to attract female consumers... .-.
I don't mean that women can't enjoy it but... there's.. probably a different way to present it....

NTR fanservice is not similar to what you posted above. Those are hentai ones and obviously there are panty shots, etc and more provocative poses. Also I assume way more happen in these shows than what the covers simply show.

No shit lol, I was just comparing the covers. It just seems to me that the way Kodama is presenting and selling her work resembles porn. NTrap's fanservice itself if very borderline, a lot of nudity is strategically "censored", or they're undressed at just the right amount to cover nipples and all. The way Kodama draws erotic scenes, she could easily get away with showing legit sex scenes without actually showing anything or having to blur anything out.
But yeah, I'm not saying it's hentai, it's not. I'm just comparing the cover arts, the way hentai and Kodama's cover art similarly promote and highlight the female heroines of their "works".
It is that sort of plot after all, it's full of the feeling of risk, being "caught in the act". The plot, the characters, what the drama revolves around, it's profoundly erotic/sexual, it just doesn't/hasn't crossed that line into actual sex [yet].
The series' hook is legit "We have a secret we can't tell our boyfriends", +"this secret between girls", it totally sounds sleezy, and indeed, it is pretty sleazy. This could have easily been a pornographic series.
So yeah, I agree, there will be fanservice, it's literally the kind of story it is, it'd be silly to expect otherwise. I'm just thinking that it's drawn in way that seems aimed at a male audience.

last edited at Nov 15, 2016 8:40PM

Gah, of all the yuri things that could be adapted into anime, this manga gets an anime?!? THIS ONE? Well, I'm probably still gonna watch it since I already endured all the shit NTR threw at me already anyway... I'm sure it can't get any worse (disclaimer: I haven't read past Chapter 6 yet, so maybe I'll be proven wrong...)

I heard that Citrus was pretty bad too, but, eh, I'll give it a shot when the anime is released.

Dont worry we still have flip flappers and izetta, the good will balance out this shit and citrus

I see what you mean, but i don't think this type of fanservise falls under the "male gazey" category.
Can you bring an anime or manga example where there is regular female nudity or yuri action that you think doesn't belong to this category?
Because by these criteria seems like every female nudity show is basically male gaze.

To me, shows like VDM fall under that category, where the target audience is men. They usually have big boobs and the girls show more promiscouty than focusing on the romance. Also phallic shaped stuff.
Shows like these are more targeted to male audience. Not that this is what every guy likes, or not interested in the romance though

NTR starts from the romance and feelings that lead to the fanservice. In the less female friendly shows you are refering, romance doesn't exist, or it's there as subplot or to only lead to fanservice.

Surprisingly, VDM had quite an appeal to female audience as well though.

I see what you mean, but i don't think this type of fanservise falls under the "male gazey" category.
Can you bring an anime or manga example where there is regular female nudity or yuri action that you think doesn't belong to this category?

The nsfw art from the sex scenes in the VN Kindred Spirits on the Roof weren't male gazey.
Hmm, this doesn't seem male gazey XD I think Ooshima Tomo's are generally fine? I can't always figure out which ones are and which ones aren't, admittedly, but I feel like some, like VD for instance, are very much so, like this one maybe? You don't have to read it btw, just.. skim maybe, at best.

Because by these criteria seems like every female nudity show is basically male gaze.

Sorry :/ I'm not sure how to explain it myself

To me, shows like VDM fall under that category, where the target audience is men.

Very much so

NTR starts from the romance and feelings that lead to the fanservice. In the less female friendly shows you are refering, romance doesn't exist, or it's there as subplot or to only lead to fanservice.

Actually, it starts with Hotaru feeling Yuma up during karaoke. I don't think romance really matters, in the sense that it's not an absolute requirement for it not to be male gazey.

Surprisingly, VDM had quite an appeal to female audience as well though.

I heard that it was cus they liked the girls' relationships in the show. Honestly, I really liked Valkyrie Drive, regardless of the fanservice. Fanservice, male gazey or not, isn't necessarily a bad thing for me, I wouldn't dismiss something just cus it has fanservice. VD's were pretty extreme actually, but I still enjoyed other aspects of it, with the occasional/frequent cringe at the breasts, but I still enjoyed it. I was just commenting on Ntrap's. Its fanservice isn't a bad thing, it wouldn't stop me from reading it, but I just couldn't help but notice the way the girls are usually presented, that's all. It certainly matches the premises I guess? People reading it aren't people who absolutely want/seek to read about healthy relationships. NTrap is erotic, it's dramatic, it's exciting I guess? It fits.

last edited at Nov 15, 2016 8:58PM

@Kal3d and @MacySan

The amount of chapters being available does feel like it would play a factor into the overall impression or enjoyment of the story, or by extension, Hotaru's character herself.

@MacySan

Perhaps it's bias from having a preconception of the series before reading, but I didn't really notice how the earlier chapters were done badly. Though I do agree that subsequent chapters did a really great job detailing Hotaru's real feelings with the reveal that she only started dating guys because she felt that she was being a burden to Yuma's popularity and how her self-destructive tendancies were likely due to her feeling that she doesn't deserve to be with Yuma openly as her girlfriend.

This might probably be just my own speculation, but it seems like whenever Hotaru gets close to Yuma but the latter backs away, she ends up throwing herself into another self-destructive activity, almost as if she feels guilty or wrong for her advances towards Yuma. The amount of internalized hatred that Hotaru has for herself due to her feelings for Yuma makes her character so compelling to follow; she wants to be with Yuma, but the latter's responses is making her hate herself even more for having such feelings.

Yuma herself, also has a rather compelling development, especially now that she is starting to realize that she wants Hotaru by her side no matter what + the hints that she always had feelings for Hotaru.

Personally, it feels to me that the underlying theme in all this is Hotaru and Yuma reconnecting their relationship due to a misunderstanding back then, and I really want them to get together.

And in regards to the art-style of the work, I've to admit that part of the reason why I put off reading this for so long was because of how sensual the girls and the covers for the manga are drawn, it just makes me feels a slight bit uneasy although I don't know how to clearly explain it.

Still, after actually reading it and making comparison with something like say, Mira's works, I think Netsuzou TRap is kinda well-balanced on the scale of explicit content; Naoko's artstyle is definitely very sensual in this work, but yet I think it works very well in how it delicately portrays the intimacy between Hotaru and Yuma in a way that captivates the audience's attention but yet still maintains a form of elegance to it. Not to say that Mira's works are not elegant in any regard, it's just her artstyle leans more towards depicting the bold, burning passion and desire that her characters feel for eachother and in it's own way, perfectly captures the emotion of the moment.

Also, on the topic of Valkyrie Drive, while I think that it could've been better without some of the more questionable scenes in the series (as much as it is arguable that in a meta sense, those scenes portray how het relationships are viewed in the story's universe), I guess I found it somewhat appealing for at least trying to make the emotions that the core characters feel towards one another genuine instead of relegating it to just plain fanservice, not that it doesn't do that for the secondary mooks and characters, but I think it's the thought that counts.

last edited at Nov 16, 2016 4:03AM

Looking at the covers again, I just realised that each one is an escalation. I hadn't realised cus in the 2nd cover, we saw less boobage than the first, but I finally noticed that in fact, they're getting more and more undressed. Lmao @both the shirts and skirts coming off at the same time

^ Oh, you're right...do I actually want to know what Vol 4's cover will look like? XD

Also for the record if anyone is wondering why I keep stylizing the title as Netsuzou TRap, it's the official twitter hashtag for the anime.

^ Oh, you're right...do I actually want to know what Vol 4's cover will look like? XD

Also for the record if anyone is wondering why I keep stylizing the title as Netsuzou TRap, it's the official twitter hashtag for the anime.

I wonder if for the final volume, they'll be as "undressed" as Kodama can get away with
Ye, Netsuzou TRap is the pun for NTR. I write it more often as NTrap tho cus it's just shorter, clear enough and visually more appealing to me

^ To look forward or not to look forward, that, is the question (lol)

NTrap is a bit easier on the eyes, yes, Though I can't help to read it as N-trap or NT-rap for some reason XD

Lmao I just.. I just don't read it out loud, even in my head haha
That reminds me, we sorta just assume that NTR is a pun on the abbreviation for netorare, but... it could very well be (and probs is, imo) netori, couldn't it? >_>
Or just never mind, it's pretty arguable. We see Takeda being ntr'd, seeing Hotaru doing the "stealing", but I guess it depends on who you're rooting for, as you could very well see Hotaru being ntr'd, as Takeda was the new boyfriend, so the plot really started with Hotaru's childhood friend/love being taken away from her.

^ I'm leaning more towards it being netori myself tbh, and I think it's pretty much set now that Hotaru and Yuma will end up together.

I mean, I've not read any of Kodama Naoko's works prior to this one (though I am planning to read Renai Manga and A World without Freedom), but the way the plot is being set up just feels like it will have yuri end; like I said before, this feels more like a story of Hotaru and Yuma rediscovering their lost love and reconnecting with eachother.

Also, on a more random note, a clear indicator that I'm head-over-heels for a pairing is when my avatar changes to feature that pairing.

last edited at Nov 15, 2016 11:43PM