Is this damage control happening on the100writers account, or another one?

I keep thinking about The 100 and I fail to believe that a show that I trusted so much would pull off a cliche like this. Just like how everyone is saying Delphine is dead, I just don't believe it.
Sure, Lexa did in fact pass BUT we don't know for sure what's going to happen on The 100. I have a feeling that sooner or later we might regret bashing the writers.

Or maybe I'm in denial about both, that's also a possibility.

last edited at Mar 6, 2016 11:15AM

Well, he technically didn't lose his wife that long ago, so that might explain why their dynamic suddenly shifted from friends/parters to potentially something more. We'll see how that plays out.

Actually, that's what I have a problem with. The guy lost his wife that he loved a lot (they showed it as a very strong and passionate relationship) not too long ago but already had several romantic/sexual (more sexual than romantic) partner and all of a sudden wants his partner and close friend
I don't see how this could work well... maybe they will surprise me.
But still it's a shame, on TV a strong female/male friendship cannot exist, it's necessarily some kind of repressed love.

I'm hoping the lesbian tech gets more screentime next season, she's cute!

Totally agree

Kitsune Spirit

Is this damage control happening on the100writers account, or another one?

Not on the official account, but individual people have reacted. It'll take some time to round them up--give me a few hours and I'll post a list of links. I enjoy doing this, don't worry. I'm past the angry stage and I love seeing them squirm (mostly Rothenberg; the staff writers and cast were doing their job).

trafi

Well, he technically didn't lose his wife that long ago, so that might explain why their dynamic suddenly shifted from friends/parters to potentially something more. We'll see how that plays out.

Actually, that's what I have a problem with. The guy lost his wife that he loved a lot (they showed it as a very strong and passionate relationship) not too long ago but already had several romantic/sexual (more sexual than romantic) partner and all of a sudden wants his partner and close friend
I don't see how this could work well... maybe they will surprise me.
But still it's a shame, on TV a strong female/male friendship cannot exist, it's necessarily some kind of repressed love.

Yeah, it's sad that ultimately his wife was just a plot device. After a couple episodes of grieving she was all but forgotten.

Male/female friendships are few and far between in fiction, yes, but usually when they exist it's because one of them is black. That's why I'm willing to cut Murder in the First some slack, even if I'm not invested in the relationship myself (the recently widowed and long-time partners things, as you said, plus, you know, why date a guy when there's a cute girl right in front of you? I'm narrow-minded apparently).

last edited at Mar 6, 2016 2:25PM

Is this damage control happening on the100writers account, or another one?

Not on the official account, but individual people have reacted. It'll take some time to round them up--give me a few hours and I'll post a list of links. I enjoy doing this, don't worry. I'm past the angry stage and I love seeing them squirm (mostly Rothenberg; the staff writers and cast were doing their job).

All right, here's the link roundup. Apologies for the double post, the wall of text and the ton of links.

Jason Rothenberg (showrunner) went on a podcast to explain his writing choices. He genuinely had no idea people would react this strongly. Unfortunately for him, one of the hosts is a queer woman who was very affected by the episode and didn't let him change the subject even though he kept trying to. Highlights include (paraphrased) "But we killed Finn too! And he didn't die because he was straight!" and "Well yeah I wanted people to cry, like when [character] on Game of Thrones died". Not so much damage control in his case as making everyone angrier.

Javier Grillo-Marxuach (episode writer) answered critics on Tumblr and Twitter and after initially defending himself with the usual arguments, he seems (fingers crossed) to have understood the magnitude of their fuckup and posted this. He stopped trying to make excuses and said that he needs to gain people's trust back and will strive to do so in his future works (i.e. Xena). He's since been reblogging comments and publishing asks mostly without comment and cross-posting them to Twitter, presumably so that his straight followers can understand the LGBT community's point of view on the matter. I think this comment is a good sign.

Kim Shumway (staff writer) is on Tumblr and Twitter and she's said a few things on the subject but, again, she doesn't have any responsibility and was executing the showrunner's vision.

Adina Porter (Indra) has been an absolute treasure on Twitter and spent hours consoling fans. She didn't resort to empty words and let them grieve and process, and refused to rise to the bait of assholes who tried to make her tell people to keep watching or to dismiss their pain. And this particular asshole later deleted their tweet, but here's a screencap.

Ricky Whittle (Lincoln) posted a video (Youtube version) where he tells people to find someone to talk to and basically not to hurt or kill themselves. He makes the unfortunate "It's just a TV show" argument but it's clear he means well. If you kind of read between the lines, he says that you don't have to keep watching if it hurts too much. He seems to have some serious beef with Rothenberg (harassment issues apparently, nasty stuff) and has another project lined up so I think he just stopped caring.

Lindsey Morgan (Raven) told people that she agreed with some of their points and they could discuss it with her if they found her in person (Tweet). She also apparently liked at least one tweet that said the way the death happened was bullshit.

Also, Amber Benson, the woman who played Tara on Buffy (whose death was ripped off for that scene), weighed in to say it's terrible that LGBT characters still get killed off for shock value but to please stop sending death threats to the dude who wrote the episode.

There's more, obviously. Grillo-Marxuach and at least another writer shared the numbers to crisis hotlines, but I didn't immediately start keeping track of everything. Note how Rothenberg, the one person with the most responsibility, hasn't actually said or done anything remotely helpful in this situation and let everyone else deal with it.

...Yes I do have a lot of free time on my hands at the moment, why do you ask? :p

...Yes I do have a lot of free time on my hands at the moment, why do you ask? :p

Thanks for that. It's nice to see at least some of them are trying to make things better, huh?

While we're on the unfortunate topic, I figured I'd mention Arrow in which a queer female character was killed as well. However, she was quite literally resurrected in the recent season. Whether it was intentional or not, I do not know.

Thank you TB, you do the yuri goddesses' work. :)

The next post down on Amber's tumblr, she looked like she hadn't slept for a few days.

In other news: I've been reading Popcorn Love by KL Hughes. I think it sufferes from not knowing when to end the story. It's not bad, just very saccharine.

last edited at Mar 7, 2016 12:35AM

There wasn't such a backlash when they 'killed off' Shaw as far as I recall. Granted, her death was epic and maybe that's why there wasn't such an uproar, plus they showed her alive and 'well' a little later. But it goes to show that people can accept such things if they're written good. Well, they also didn't make it clear whether or not she was dead or not but due to the wounds it was hard at the time to think otherwise, as well as why they did what they did. I still think that one of them will die. Most likely Root.

bob2alien

While we're on the unfortunate topic, I figured I'd mention Arrow in which a queer female character was killed as well. However, she was quite literally resurrected in the recent season. Whether it was intentional or not, I do not know.

Sometimes I read the TVtropes Bury Your Gays page and I make myself sad.

telamon

There wasn't such a backlash when they 'killed off' Shaw as far as I recall.

I remember Afterellen immediately writing it off as yet another dead queer woman, without mentioning the real-life circumstances that led to that decision. That made people angry.
Other than that, I think it's a combination of several factors. That show's audience not using social media as much outside of Facebook (because they're older I guess?) and the ship's fandom being a lot smaller, especially before it was revealed to be canon; the uncertainty that gave people hope; the fact that neither of the showrunners are on Twitter (and I'm really grateful for that) and didn't make comments that would come across as insensitive...
Plus, as you said, it was just handled better. Many people have said that they would have been willing to accept Lexa's death, expected it even, if it had been more fitting for her character. And if the creative team hadn't been actively courting an LGBT audience for the past year while knowing what would happen. That's what pissed me off the most, personally.

But now I REALLY hope both Root and Shaw make it out alive, even if it isn't very likely. People's tolerance for LGBT character deaths has dropped after this debacle, and rightfully so. It would have to be executed flawlessly for the show's queer audience to even consider accepting it.

While it pisses me off I really hope they don't give gay characters blanket immunity to getting killed off. I don't want to be patronized like that. If they have to die, make their death fitting to the character.

But now I REALLY hope both Root and Shaw make it out alive, even if it isn't very likely. People's tolerance for LGBT character deaths has dropped after this debacle, and rightfully so. It would have to be executed flawlessly for the show's queer audience to even consider accepting it.

I would love nothing more than both of them survive, I bet it will be Shaw killing Root off, cause they got the brainwashed plot going in that little town. Also, Harold's fianceé is coming back (it's his wife in RL) The thing is that would be very in-character but people will cry again because of it. I wouldn't mind if Shaw is crippled but lives and Root is doting over her (even as she is herself quite broken, but emotionally)

While it pisses me off I really hope they don't give gay characters blanket immunity to getting killed off. I don't want to be patronized like that. If they have to die, make their death fitting to the character.

The problem is that it has happened waaay too often, writers killing off lesbian characters, and no matter how fitting it would be or how epic they go out, people will riot, cause the happy end for lesbians as main characters or as close to them is practically non-existent.

The problem is that it has happened waaay too often, writers killing off lesbian characters, and no matter how fitting it would be or how epic they go out, people will riot, cause the happy end for lesbians as main characters or as close to them is practically non-existent.

What I would like ideally is blanket immunity for a while. Let us have happy endings without fear of them getting killed off... I don't have an ideal timeframe for how long the immunity lasts - a decade's worth of shows maybe? I just want it.

I just want lesbian romances to get the same respect as straight ones.

last edited at Mar 7, 2016 1:17PM

The ending where you save Arcadia bay, without spoiling too much, it is longer and you see the effects the decision has and Chloe's funeral. It's well done and very emotional. I watched a youtuber who chose that ending first and I actually teared up watching it. While the one where you save Chloe it's just them driving through and out of the town in the pickup truck. As for which one I think is better, I like the one where you save Chloe, mostly because I'm all for giving the finger to fate and such. Fun fact, depending on your choices you can actually kiss Warren near the end.

Heh, I thought it was going to be that ending, in my case I save Chloe cause fuck everyone else, Bae before Bay! I also knew you could have romance with Warren instead, but by chapter 2 I was already tired of his shit

After fan reaction to what they did in 100 I don't think that they will kill Shaw for good, maybe we'll see her only in the end of the season or in the next season, leaving us wondering what happened, I actually suspect that if they were going to kill her they might have changed their minds thanks to 100, it would make fans really happy and make sure to keep them continue watching it too

Well, I guess that we can say that not everything is lost at least? Javier Grillo-Marxuach did say he will try to gain people trust again in his next work (Xena), so maybe now we can hope that they will do it properly after all the shit they did? Well, technically it's Jason Rothenberg who did most shit, but since it hit the fan it affected everyone, even those who didn't have much saying, from what people say of him I doubt Javier Grillo-Marxuach could have done anything to change that death or make it better, and even if it was possible with the things he say like wanting to make people cry like in Game of Thrones he would probably make fans give up on it anyway, now the question is if the serie will continue or if it lost enough fans to be cancelled.

And melevas, where is your avatar from?

last edited at Mar 7, 2016 1:51PM

Person of interest will end with Shaw and Root living as psycho as ever ever after and having lots of psycho science babies. What death ? Who said death ? I don't see no death ._.

Sometimes I read the TVtropes Bury Your Gays page and I make myself sad.

telamon

Why would you do that to yourself?

Spoilers for PoI's next season. Read at your own risk.
Shaw is gonna come back in episode 2-4 (I remember it was confirmed) and is probably gonna be in the show until the last episodes, since it is very possible that this is the last season (13 episodes and all). As well as Grace is gonna be back (confirmed as well), Harold's ex-fianceé. And people are gonna be very skeptical of her(Shaw's) return (bar Root, cause Root is just in too deep)

Far as I remember, this is what I read from interviews and stuff about the new season.

last edited at Mar 7, 2016 2:07PM

After fan reaction to what they did in 100 I don't think that they will kill Shaw for good, maybe we'll see her only in the end of the season or in the next season, leaving us wondering what happened, I actually suspect that if they were going to kill her they might have changed their minds thanks to 100, it would make fans really happy and make sure to keep them continue watching it too

I really hope the writers and staff for POI are paying attention to the fan's reactions to the 100.

The problem is that it has happened waaay too often, writers killing off lesbian characters, and no matter how fitting it would be or how epic they go out, people will riot, cause the happy end for lesbians as main characters or as close to them is practically non-existent.

What I would like ideally is blanket immunity for a while. Let us have happy endings without fear of them getting killed off... I don't have an ideal timeframe for how long the immunity lasts - a decade's worth of shows maybe? I just want it.

There's an old saying, the origins of which are obscure, that says "In the first act get your principal character up a tree; in the second act, throw stones at them; in the third, get them down gracefully."

When it comes to lesbian characters, there's been a persistent habit of skipping the last step. Or rather, to exchange stones for firearms and get them down that way. We need at least some projects to follow through on the "getting them down" bit.

Kitsune Spirit

What I would like ideally is blanket immunity for a while. Let us have happy endings without fear of them getting killed off...

Same. I just would like to be able to count happy f/f couples on more than one hand. I really don't want to praise Glee for anything it did, you know? It feels like praising your puppy for shitting on the bed instead of the carpet.

bob2alien

Why would you do that to yourself?

Morbid curiosity I guess haha. And sometimes I have trouble imagining that things are actually that bad, so I need a reality check.

telamon

I would love nothing more than both of them survive, I bet it will be Shaw killing Root off, cause they got the brainwashed plot going in that little town.

O_o You have a twisted mind. If they do that, I'll be traumatized!
Have you seen Chris Fisher's POI Noir pictures for next season? He posted some of Shaw post-Samaritan and she looks rough. Huge bags under her eyes and a suspicious bandage under her ear.

Thiaguinho-sama

After fan reaction to what they did in 100 I don't think that they will kill Shaw for good

The entire season 5 of POI has been filmed and some cast and crew members have moved on to other projects, so they can't change anything now. At this point we're just waiting for the network to stop holding the show hostage and just air the last season already :(

The entire season 5 of POI has been filmed and some cast and crew members have moved on to other projects, so they can't change anything now. At this point we're just waiting for the network to stop holding the show hostage and just air the last season already :(

I see, that's a shame, although POI staff didn't do shit and seens to hear what fans say, unlike 100 staff, so unlike pretty much everything else where I expect the worst, I think we can hope that they will give us what we want, if not they will at least do it in a good way.

last edited at Mar 7, 2016 4:14PM

O_o You have a twisted mind. If they do that, I'll be traumatized!
Have you seen Chris Fisher's POI Noir pictures for next season? He posted some of Shaw post-Samaritan and she looks rough. Huge bags under her eyes and a suspicious bandage under her ear.

Not really twisted, it's just a logical conclusion :P And no I haven't seen the pictures, but if what is in there is any indication, then my theory could be very accurate.

I think we can hope that they will give us what we want, if not they will at least do it in a good way.

Considering that initially there was no intention of making Root/Shaw (but they did because the chemistry between them was just that good) and they made it because they saw it as good, even if it's not what we want (a happy ending, that will not happen, and they've said it themselves) it will be good, so far they haven't disappointed. The writing is stellar, and they've said that the ending is closed off enough so that it doesn't need a new season, but not to that extend that a new network can't pick the show up and make a 6th season or more.

last edited at Mar 7, 2016 5:06PM

I see, that's a shame, although POI staff didn't do shit and seens to hear what fans say, unlike 100 staff, so unlike pretty much everything else where I expect the worst, I think we can hope that they will give us what we want, if not they will at least do it in a good way.

Yeah, but the 100 writers seemed to understand what their fans told them, and it turns out they were lying the whole time! I think it was a brutal reminder that most TV producers just don't care about underrepresented groups. The POI writers were the only ones I was willing to trust not to fuck up their LGBT characters and now I'm not sure what to think anymore. Ugh.

But to their credit, I don't remember them congratulating themselves about Root and Shaw and how progressive and brave their show is. They're usually pretty matter-of-fact, like in this article (vague spoilers for season 5). Nolan's answer made me chuckle.

Not really twisted, it's just a logical conclusion :P And no I haven't seen the pictures, but if what is in there is any indication, then my theory could be very accurate.

When the season starts we should take bets on how both of them could die :p Maybe gallows humor will make it hurt less.

When the season starts we should take bets on how both of them could die :p Maybe gallows humor will make it hurt less.

Hah, well, you already know what I think will happen xD

And that's what I like about the writers (in regards to them not conversing with the fans) they write what they write and aren't influenced by what the fans want, and just tell the story how they want and aren't thinking a little later about how they're gonna take back what they included because of the fans and how it clashes with their original idea, and now they gotta do something that the audience is gonna completely hate, because they tried to pander to people.

Their killing off of characters is important (in how it plays out for the rest), and not just in line for what GoT might do (ie, shock value). Considering the aftermath of Carter's death was pretty substantial, and we saw how the team took Shaw's 'death' and brought back a little of their ruthlessness (reminded us, really, how they are still the killers they've been and they're not 'cured'). Even Scarface. And they are open with why they killed off Carter, later on how Sarah Shahi was pregnant, and initially it was supposed to be John that died, and I think that would've been for real, not how Shaw went out.

Anyway, ranting, but yeah. Even if they kill off all of the characters, I'm sure it will be epic, even if I'll be pissed for a little while. If you're dubious, just look at the scenes in 'If-Then-Else' and the numerous ways in which they were killed. Even though you knew that it was a simulation, it still was heartbreaking (especially Root's conversation with Shaw over the phone, before she cut the cables with the axe).

last edited at Mar 7, 2016 6:50PM

When the season starts we should take bets on how both of them could die :p Maybe gallows humor will make it hurt less.

Gallows humor is best humor! What should we bet with? Internet points? Cookies?? Lillies???

Heh, I thought it was going to be that ending, in my case I save Chloe cause fuck everyone else, Bae before Bay! I also knew you could have romance with Warren instead, but by chapter 2 I was already tired of his shit

While I had nothing against Warren he didn't really have that big a part in the story imo, plus that attempted hug in ep 1 just cracks me up.