Guys... No one's forcing you to read it...

After 13 chapters, hearing the same complaints every time gets kind of old... =A=

After 13 chapters, hearing the same complaints every time gets kind of old... =A=

You said it.

After 13 chapters, hearing the same complaints every time gets kind of old... =A=

You said it.

As old as her plots and development?

It is fine if you like the same yuri story all over and over and over again with different art. Because now really, she barely moved past changing the hairstyle of one of the main characters.

As old as her plots and development?

It is fine if you like the same yuri story all over and over and over again with different art. Because now really, she barely moved past changing the hairstyle of one of the main characters.

Yeah, we get it. You don't like it. You don't have to read it. Let us enjoy it and find better pastures.

Kayo-chin posted:

Man, and I thought I was old! (I'll be 28 this year). Such a horrible feeling approaching the age of 30 without having achieved anything...

Seems to be fairly unique to this site in my experience. I'll be turning 29 myself and on the other sites I frequent I tend to be around 5-6 years older than the average user generally, if not a bit more.

Ropponmatsu posted:

Guys... No one's forcing you to read it...

I can't speak for everyone but personally I've got someone holding a gun to my head forcing me to read every chapter. Then again I'm not one of the ones complaining about the developments anyways. Also thanks for translating.

Are you people really that pissed off? God damn, where is all this vitriol every time a trope filled oneshot gets loaded up on here? How many truly original stories can you claim that you have read on here?

A yuri romance manga about two gay teenagers who are stuck in the closet! Who would have thought that gays would have a hard time coming out in traditional thinking Japan???/s

I never thought I would say this in a serious manner but check your privilege. Most of the world still doesn't accept gays, it's a bit of a riskier situation to let their sexuality be found out.

The best part is that you are acting like it came out of left field when the whole series is built on the idea that Hina is scared of letting people know about her true self. In chapter 6 her friends badmouth the possibility of a lesbian going to their school, but you think she should just come right on out? It's not bad writing, it seems you guys just don't have good reading comprehension.

For me, I appreciate the ex-girlfriend red herring. I don't remember ever reading a yuri manga where one girl thought she had a chance because she knew the other girl was interested in women, only for her to be indirectly turned down because of the other's anxiety over society's homophobia. But I guess I have some to add to my "to read" list since that's apparently an overused trope according to some people here.

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 7:00AM

Are you people really that pissed off? God damn, where is all this vitriol every time a trope filled oneshot gets loaded up on here? How many truly original stories can you claim that you have read on here?

A yuri romance manga about two gay teenagers who are stuck in the closet! Who would have thought that gays would have a hard time coming out in traditional thinking Japan???/s

I never thought I would say this in a serious manner but check your privilege. Most of the world still doesn't accept gays, it's a bit of a riskier situation to let their sexuality be found out.

The best part is that you are acting like it came out of left field when the whole series is built on the idea that Hina is scared of letting people know about her true self. In chapter 6 her friends badmouth the possibility of a lesbian going to their school, but you think she should just come right on out? It's not bad writing, it seems you guys just don't have good reading comprehension.

For me, I appreciate the ex-girlfriend red herring. I don't remember ever reading a yuri manga where one girl thought she had a chance because she knew the other girl was interested in women, only for her to be indirectly turned down because of the other's anxiety over society's homophobia. But I guess I have some to add to my "to read" list since that's apparently an overused trope according to some people here.

applauds
I feel like this was what Ropponmatsu's been trying to get at for the past four or so pages, LOL.

Woah, woah. Hold your horses.

I do understand people having a hard time confessing to someone else being gay or het. What I don't understand is why every story has to pull the same keynotes. It's like the Canon by Pachelbel of yuri. Aren't you even a bit baffled that something supposedly out of the ordinary always develop in the same way? It's like watching the ninth reboot of Spiderman.

Oneshots are that, oneshots. You don't have to wait for months to find out that the story didn't develop an inch or in fact it went back to square one and all this while you fear the author pulling the same old yuri tropes again and again.

This has nothing to do with not understanding the degree of homophobia in Japan or anywhere else. It has to do with the quality of the media being discussed. If you think that yuri should get a free pass whatever the quality just because it is somewhat gay maybe it is you who should check your privilege.

Woah, woah. Hold your horses.

I do understand people having a hard time confessing to someone else being gay or het. What I don't understand is why every story has to pull the same keynotes. It's like the Canon by Pachelbel of yuri. Aren't you even a bit baffled that something supposedly out of the ordinary always develop in the same way? It's like watching the ninth reboot of Spiderman.

Oneshots are that, oneshots. You don't have to wait for months to find out that the story didn't develop an inch or in fact it went back to square one and all this while you fear the author pulling the same old yuri tropes again and again.

This has nothing to do with not understanding the degree of homophobia in Japan or anywhere else. It has to do with the quality of the media being discussed. If you think that yuri should get a free pass whatever the quality just because it is somewhat gay maybe it is you who should check your privilege.

Apparently you don't understand because you think that Hina should just come right on out after a misunderstanding. Because an old friend who jokes about being her ex showed up she should all the sudden announce her love to Hana and live happy ever after. Now that would actually be bad writing.

You can talk about using the same keynotes or tropes all you want but if you can't pin point a list of manga where a girl got her hopes up about dating someone who she thought was into women only to be indirectly shot down due to her anxiety of society's homophobia then maybe you might have a point.

You're just complaining because this is another manga that takes a realistic look at how gay teenagers in Japan would come out of the closet. Turns out it's a tough thing to do and requires a lot of denial when others come close to discovering the truth. Other than supposedly following old tropes like you claim how is this bad writing? Are we not allowed to have stories about girls being unable to come out or would that just be bad writing?

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 7:49AM

Like some other people, I'd like to see more yuri where the main characters are aware of their sexuality from the start and clearly identify as lesbians, or at least as liking girls too. The whole spiel about being angsty because they are not accepted in society gets tiresome, because I ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH OF THAT IN REAL LIFE.

Like Beloved for example.

It was fine to write "what is this feeling?", "but we are both girls..." and "I'm normal, I swear!" stories 10 years ago, but I wish Milk would go past that, instead of rehashing them.

Some people like it, okay, but if she hadn't written Girlfriends beforehand, I think the reactions would be less lenient.

I don't think Orestes is complaining about the events in the chapter specifically. I think they're trying to say that Morinaga's works as a whole has become stale because she doesn't really change anything up throughout most, if not, all of her works.

Meanwhile, Cannibal is trying to stress that Hina's denial/lie and Hana being shut down are somewhat accurate representations (or... accurate enough) of how homosexuality is viewed in Japan.

I feel like both sides are... talking about something different? Correct me if I'm wrong.

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 7:54AM

Then people can enjoy reading stories like Beloved or Wife and Wife. Just because it's possible for Milk to write something fluffy or pure lesbian drama doesn't mean that she has to in order to write a good story. Doesn't matter what kind of stories you read a decade ago, this is stuff kids today still have to worry about. It's realistic situations, unlike something like Pulse where every woman in the city is apparently lesbian or bi and has slept with this one particular doctor.

We can still get good action movies no matter how many explosions and gun fights we have seen before, we can get good yuri no matter if they reuse the issue of denial and the difficulties of coming out of the closet.

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 7:57AM

Then people can enjoy reading stories like Beloved or Wife and Wife. Just because it's possible for Milk to write something fluffy doesn't mean that she has to in order to write a good story. Doesn't matter what kind of stories you read a decade ago, this is stuff kids today still have to worry about. It's realistic situations, unlike something like Pulse where every woman in the city is apparently lesbian or bi and has slept with this one particular doctor.

We can still get good action movies no matter how many explosions and gun fights we have seen before, we can get good yuri no matter if they reuse the issue of denial and the difficulties of coming out of the closet.

I think Morinaga's works are pretty cute still, even if they're extremely cliche~

In any case, I just felt like you two were not really touching upon the same subject. It seemed like your points were more directed towards the people that, earlier in the thread (comments that are now deleted), pointed out Hina's lie (the "I'm normal" line). Those users showed dissatisfaction with Hina essentially labeling anything other than heterosexuality as "abnormal" (which wasn't really the point of the story, but let's not broach this topic again... there's a reason why it got deleted).

However, what Orestes is talking about should probably be left for the author discussion page, because their comments were showing displeasure over Morinaga's overused tropes and were not really related to the series at hand.
www.dynasty-scans.com/forum/topics/6478-morinaga-milk-discussion <-- Just... don't be too harsh with the discussion here, I guess? (Apparently, there was some drama here earlier, so let's not revive that)

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 8:02AM

Apparently you don't understand because you think that Hina should just come right on out after a misunderstanding. Because an old friend who jokes about being her ex showed up she should all the sudden announce her love to Hana and live happy ever after. Now that would actually be bad writing.

You're saying this as if the author had nothing to do with the setup to begin with. The development comes right out of the author's script. The old friend situation came right out of her hand.

You can talk about using the same keynotes or tropes all you want but if you can't pin point a list of manga where a girl got her hopes up about dating someone who she thought was into women only to be indirectly shot down due to her anxiety of society's homophobia then maybe you might have a point.

Why a list?, you can make a really simple diagram and cover 90% of yuri development in manga. If you had been around as long as me you should know this by now.

You're just complaining because this is another manga that takes a realistic look at how gay teenagers in Japan would come out of the closet. Turns out it's a tough thing to do and requires a lot of denial when others come close to discovering the truth. Other than supposedly following old tropes like you claim how is this bad writing?

If you think that any manga with moe art is a realistic look at anything you're beyond help.

It would be nice if moderators didn't have to step in after every release we make for this series...

No, my points are directed at Orestes and Anonko who seem to think that a story about teenagers coming out of the closet is somehow now automatically bad writing. The Morinaga should write about something else as if there was a shortage of fluff or drama filled adult stories. Apparently there is no shortage of coming out stories so Morinaga should just stop for whatever reason.

Ahh...

I'm sorry for getting involved.
I will just...
depart...

Cannibal posted:

Apparently there is no shortage of coming out stories so Morinaga should just stop for whatever reason.

Actually there isn't. It is the most done to death story archetype, that is why people who read yuri for a bit longer are so sick of it (including me). I don't mind it, but not when it takes entire story and then once it is finally solved, the series ends.

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 8:15AM

You're saying this as if the author had nothing to do with the setup to begin with. The development comes right out of the author's script. The old friend situation came right out of her hand.

Yeah, it's called a red herring and it was used as a device for Hana to figure out her own feelings while also setting up an unusual situation.

Why a list?, you can make a really simple diagram and cover 90% of yuri development in manga. If you had been around as long as me you should know this by now.

I can try to find the one one shot I can think of that uses a similar situation, but to say that it covers 90% of yuri development is just a blatant lie. I don't remember Milk using a similar situation in any of her other series, please which one does the MC gets her hopes up that her romantic interest is interested in women only for it to be shot down? Should not be hard to name it.

If you think that any manga with moe art is a realistic look at anything you're beyond help.

Oh, yes, because everyone knows that art style is indicative of how realistic the situation is./s

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 8:23AM

Apparently there is no shortage of coming out stories so Morinaga should just stop for whatever reason.

Actually there isn't. It is the most done to death story archetype, that is why people who read yuri for a bit longer are so sick of it (including me). I don't mind it, but not when it takes entire story and then once it is finally solved, the series ends.

So you don't mind it but you do mind it? So no more coming out stories despite the fact that reality still doesn't make it that easy? If you did that with every other type of story then nothing would ever come out again. Every single type of story and genre has been done to death, even the fluffy yuri and the melodramatic yuri. Doesn't mean that it should stop being made.

All I know is, I have only been reading Yuri for about 4 months now. So I do not know, nor do I care, about any old works by this author, nor what tropes she might be reusing from her older works. To me, this story is fun, cute, sweet, fluffy, and romantic. I do not care if it is fresh or stale, it is still an enjoyable read.

You folks who insist on bagging on the story with all the vitriol you can muster are kind of a drag.

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 8:32AM

See? The "ex" is not ex in the end. This is the same old Morinaga.

Yeah, it's called a red herring and it was used as a device for Hana to figure out her own feelings while also setting up an unusual situation.

In such an unusual and original fashion.

I can try to find the one one shot I can think of that uses a similar situation, but to say that it covers 90% of yuri development is just a blatant lie.

Schoolgirl + Schoolgirl = 90% covered
In the case of MM Schoolgirl + Schoolgirl = 99.9%

You can start there.

I don't remember Milk using a similar situation in any of her other series, please which one does the MC gets her hopes up that her romantic interest is interested in women only for it to be shot down? Should not be hard to name it.

Kisses, Sighs, and Cherry-Blossom / This Love From I Can't Remember When
In Girlfriends there is a whole het arc based on this premise.
In Secret of the Princess the whole story is based on this.
In The Secret Recipe there is an "I'm normal" arc.

Oh, yes, because everyone knows that art style is indicative of how realistic the situation is./s

Anyone with common sense. Yeah.

In such an unusual and original fashion.

Apparently so since you can't name one manga that does the same thing.

Schoolgirl + Schoolgirl = 90% covered
In the case of MM Schoolgirl + Schoolgirl = 99.9%

You can start there.

It looks like I misunderstood, I didn't think you were going to actually make the claim that school girl yuri is automatically bad writing but you surprised me.

Kisses, Sighs, and Cherry-Blossom / This Love From I Can't Remember When
In Girlfriends there is a whole het arc based on this premise.
In Secret of the Princess the whole story is based on this.
In The Secret Recipe there is an "I'm normal" arc.

Sorry, where was the red herring ex girlfriend that gives MC hope of having a relationship only to be dashed? None of those? You seem to make huge generalizations of the story in order to make such connections. Might as well say that Morinaga writes too much yuri romance, maybe her next series should be a het harem shounen in order to spice things up.

Anyone with common sense. Yeah.

Now that is a new low, I guess Husky and Medley isn't as true as the author claimed. I guess books can't tell a realistic story since their just words on paper, no realistic art at all./s

last edited at Jan 22, 2017 8:57AM

I gave you examples and you didn't acknowledge any of them. Why should I worry? Anything tagged "Aaaangst" have a really high chance to portrait just that.

Never said that Schoolgirl yuri is bad writing, what I said is that if you're going to put additional value to it you shouldn't even bother.

They weren't coworkers and schoolgirls at the same time too. So different. Absolutely not the same thing.

Husky and Medley is based on a 2chan story. Same way Marimite is a light novel. Putting pretty drawings on top doesn't stop them from having a different origin and serving different purposes.