I understand there's cognitive dissonance at play here: people see Shou as a creep and that means he can't possibly do work people like us would enjoy. He's doing work we enjoy. There seems to be that paradox.

It shouldn't be that hard to resolve.

It'll be resolved when people accept that they can enjoy things created by someone they personally find undesirable as a friend/associate/whatever.

Speculating whether or not Shou enjoys loli is likely pointless, but these are two pretty strong indicators: 1) He has no moral/ethical problem with it, as evidenced by his continued work, and 2) he has been featured as a guest in multiple lolicon doujinshi, something which earns him no income and boosts his credibility as a person who personally enjoys it.

In truth, many western artists draw and release ton of kink/fetish work, you just don't see or hear about them because it's looked down on in the west. The difficulty understanding really comes from cultural influences, I think. And I am certainly no exception in feeling ambivalent about enjoying certain artists creation's.

last edited at Mar 26, 2015 11:12PM

Also you misquoted me in the first place anyway. I meant he clearly must enjoy drawing yuri as well. I guess the phrasing was a little inexact. Hence the bit about the tracing, since it was Prism that got cancelled because of that scandal.

last edited at Mar 26, 2015 11:13PM

So because he enjoys loli everyone is getting on his shit now?

You realize he doesn't just draw loli porn right? you can like loli and other types of anime women too but one thing you should remember a loli =/= a real life child, the proportions for loli's tend to be totally wrong because the point of drawing a loli is to draw something small and cute, most of the time it isn't realistic at all because it isn't meant to be, the appeal of loli porn is seeing something small and cute in a perverted situation, its kind of a variation of the corruption fetish.
Liking loli porn in no way makes you a pedo, it no more makes you a creep than getting off to catgirls or tentacle porn does, it is FANTASY and you are acting as if liking loli porn is an exclusivity thing, news flash: you can like other types of porn too.

Im getting the feeling this topic is only being brought up in the first place because he is a man, stop that shit it gives this site a bad name.

It's human nature to be a lolicon guys. It has already been proven.

So if I understood it right, there is people here that think if a man draw lolicon he can't have the capacity to draw things like Stretch? That's really stupid...

I can't help but find funny when people discuss about lolicon, like Rosenakahara said most of them don't even have realist proportions, they're not real child, but someone always make a big deal of it, lf it was something "worse" like guro i would understand, but lolicon? Somethings I feel that they just don't want to admit they also like lolis.

This discussion would make more sense if Shou drew toddlercon, different of lolicon, they tend to have proportion of real toddlers except for the faces, but it's not like I know that because I have a directory full of toddlercon.

It's human nature to be a lolicon guys. It has already been proven.

Indeed, everyone should embrace lolis, but only their own lolis, it would cause problems to embrace the loli of other person, and a true lolicon would never touch a real little girl, because unfortunately they don't know how to keep secrets, not that I would try to touch one, nope, not at aaaaaaaaaall.....

^ well that was more than slightly creepy, changed my avatar to ari (OC by born-to-die) because i want to see how many people get on my shit for this.

^ well that was more than slightly creepy, changed my avatar to ari (OC by born-to-die) because i want to see how many people get on my shit for this.

Hey I'm not creepy, I just your typical nice guy that offer candy to your children and ask if they don't want to sit on my lap, perfectly normal.

I want a link to that avatar.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 10:42AM

Well, I mean, obviously people shouldn't judge Shou for drawing lolis, they should judge him for tracing. Yeah, my jokes date back to 2012, whatever. They also shouldn't judge people just because they like lolicon, probably. Even though most of the lolicons I saw on the net make that very difficult. But in the end, saying things like "Everybody is a lolicon" or acting like it's weird to be oppossed to what is basically child porn, even if it's in a drawn story, is just as wrong. Don't push your own morals onto others, you know?

I want a link to that avatar.

Beware my google skills

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 10:49AM

I hope you're not saying Shou's lolicon girls aren't supposed to be real child. I f you are then you're burying your head in the sand (first time trying this expression =D).

Edit : I'm not saying anyone is wrong to read them, just that it is a fact in Shou's manga that the girls are generally elementary schooler (or middle school maximum)

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 11:13AM

Well, I mean, obviously people shouldn't judge Shou for drawing lolis, they should judge him for tracing. Yeah, my jokes date back to 2012, whatever. They also shouldn't judge people just because they like lolicon, probably. Even though most of the lolicons I saw on the net make that very difficult.

Tracing jokes never get old, and judging people because what they like is stupid, but it's true that most lolicons give a bad name to the rest of lolicons, most of us just like to appreciate the beauty of little girls, give them candy, make them sit on our laps, make poses and take some pictures (specially if they're using small or little cloth), steal one of their panties, things perfectly normal and acceptable, there is a line a real lolicon will never cross, that line is the little girl panties, because they always tell someone about it eventually...

But in the end, saying things like "Everybody is a lolicon" or acting like it's weird to be oppossed to what is basically child porn, even if it's in a drawn story, is just as wrong. Don't push your own morals onto others, you know?

I hate when people push their moral on others, it's not like their moral or opinions is part of a religion, because we all know that it's religious people that like to push their moral on others, and although I agree that from a certain perspective it is basically child porn, we should never forget that in the end it's not the same thing, as it's only lines on paper, not real children.

I want a link to that avatar.

Beware my google skills

Amazing skills, I didn't know about born-to-die, going to have a busy day looking at his drawings...

I hope you're not saying Shou's lolicon girls aren't supposed to be real child. I f you are then you're burying your head in the sand (first time trying this expression =D).

So you're saying that Shou not only do tracing, but make lolicon based on real child? and nope they're not real, deal with it.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 11:12AM

I hope you're not saying Shou's lolicon girls aren't supposed to be real child. I f you are then you're burying your head in the sand (first time trying this expression =D).

So you're saying that Shou not only do tracing, but make lolicon based on real child? and nope they're not real, deal with it.

I'm not saying they are based on reals kids that he saw on the street (x)) I'm saying they ARE childs. They are not some fantastical creature who look younger that they are. The aim of these manga is for them to be young. It is pedo porn.

Sorry if If I didn't make myself clear

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 11:17AM

I hate when people push their moral on others, it's not like their moral or opinions is part of a religion, because we all know that it's religious people that like to push their moral on others, and although I agree that from a certain perspective it is basically child porn, we should never forget that in the end it's not the same thing, as it's only lines on paper, not real children.

Well, if it was real child porn with real children, I wouldn't attempt to defend you guys. It still sexualizes little children, though, and obviously people are going to be uncomfortable with that.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 11:19AM

I hope you're not saying Shou's lolicon girls aren't supposed to be real child. I f you are then you're burying your head in the sand (first time trying this expression =D).

So you're saying that Shou not only do tracing, but make lolicon based on real child? and nope they're not real, deal with it.

I'm not saying they are based on I'm saying they are. They are not some fantastical creature who look younger that they are. The aim of these manga is for them to be young. It is pedo porn.

Sorry if If I didn't make myself clear

Well that is your opinion, no matter how much I look at them, they will always be made of paper and ink, not of flesh and bones, so not real child or pedo porn.

You guys hopefully know that the word lolicon just exists to soften the blow that the word pedophilia holds but that discussion would just highlight more deeprooted problems and go absolutly nowwhere

I hope you're not saying Shou's lolicon girls aren't supposed to be real child. I f you are then you're burying your head in the sand (first time trying this expression =D).

So you're saying that Shou not only do tracing, but make lolicon based on real child? and nope they're not real, deal with it.

I'm not saying they are based on reals kids that he saw on the street (x)) I'm saying they ARE childs. They are not some fantastical creature who look younger that they are. The aim of these manga is for them to be young. It is pedo porn.

Sorry if If I didn't make myself clear

this logic is retarded, "you like the way loli's look therefore you MUST want to fuck little girls"

also this "They are not some fantastical creature who look younger that they are." you know loli's can fit into that category right?

Hell i tend to avoid little kids at all costs, they are annoying little shits.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 11:32AM

I hate when people push their moral on others, it's not like their moral or opinions is part of a religion, because we all know that it's religious people that like to push their moral on others, and although I agree that from a certain perspective it is basically child porn, we should never forget that in the end it's not the same thing, as it's only lines on paper, not real children.

Well, if it was real child porn with real children, I wouldn't attempt to defend you guys. It still sexualizes little children and obviously people are going to be uncomfortable with that.

It don't need to be lolicon, people will always find something that makes them uncomfortable, but I understand they side, that kind of thing is not for everyone, and you can't even try to defend real child porn, there is a universe of difference between lolicon and real child porn, there is no argument that could be used to justify or excuse if it's real.

And lolicon aside, isn't child pretty much sexualized by a lot of things nowadays? japan is the most obvius of course, but a lot of the world do things that sexualizes childs today, and that's horrible.

You guys hopefully know that the word lolicon just exists to soften the blow that the word pedophilia holds but that discussion would just highlight more deeprooted problems and go absolutly nowwhere

Nothing can soft pedophilia, it involves real children, and sure pedophilia is a serious problem, but don't come saying that loli porn creates more pedophiles, okay lolicon is about drawings of children, but they will never be the same.

You guys hopefully know that the word lolicon just exists to soften the blow that the word pedophilia holds but that discussion would just highlight more deeprooted problems and go absolutly nowwhere

If I'd think like that, all the rape doujins would literally kill me inside. I have to seperate beween fiction and reality or I'd probably come to hate Japanese people.
I generally agree, though. I'm not saying all lolicons are sick or something but assuming that lolicons won't ever fall into pedophilia is questionable.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 11:35AM

I hope you're not saying Shou's lolicon girls aren't supposed to be real child. I f you are then you're burying your head in the sand (first time trying this expression =D).

So you're saying that Shou not only do tracing, but make lolicon based on real child? and nope they're not real, deal with it.

I'm not saying they are based on reals kids that he saw on the street (x)) I'm saying they ARE childs. They are not some fantastical creature who look younger that they are. The aim of these manga is for them to be young. It is pedo porn.

Sorry if If I didn't make myself clear

this logic is retarded, "you like the way loli's look therefore you MUST want to fuck little girls"

also this "They are not some fantastical creature who look younger that they are." you know loli's can fit into that category right?

Hell i tend to avoid little kids at all costs, they are annoying little shits.

You didn't read what I said from the begining. Here I was talking about Shou's lolicon. And I never said If you read these you will and want to fuck child in real life. Don't make me say things I never said.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 11:46AM

this logic is retarded, "you like the way loli's look therefore you MUST want to fuck little girls"

A lot of people do that, you like X them you must also do X.

also this "They are not some fantastical creature who look younger that they are." you know loli's can fit into that category right?

Don't they fit that most of the time? they don't look like real little girls or act like them most of the time, their proportions and face are not realistic

Hell i tend to avoid little kids at all costs, they are annoying little shits.

Me too, most children are extremely annoying.

You guys hopefully know that the word lolicon just exists to soften the blow that the word pedophilia holds but that discussion would just highlight more deeprooted problems and go absolutly nowwhere

If I'd think like that, all the rape doujins would literally kill me inside. I have to seperate beween fiction and reality or I'd probably come to hate Japanese people.

After all rape, mind break, mind control, guro, ntr and other genres that can be put with them that I read, I would have already given up on humanity and killed myself in despair if i thought they where real.

I generally agree, though. Probably not for all lolicons, but assuming that most lolicons won't ever cross the line is definitely questionable.

Definitely, if a loli offered herself to me and I would not be caught because she would not tell anyone, my brain would freeze and I would not know what to do, I prefer to not even think of that possibility, as I would possibly make a choice that should not be made.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 11:44AM

Definitely, if a loli offered herself to me and I would not be caught because she would not tell anyone, my brain would freeze and I would not know what to do, I prefer to not even think of that possibility, as I would possibly make a choice that should not be made.

and as i said before thats when it gets creepy, i like the way loli's are drawn, i like loli porn and i like non loli porn, say i was transported into a hentai world would i do a loli though? noooopee, granted it would be a hentai world so i would be having sex with SOMETHING by the end of it but see what you just said borders dangerously close to pedo

Well, this escalated quickly. Mostly I was just trying to get at what Yuppers said, though they clearly thought I was commenting on Shou's loli work negatively. I just think his characterisation of his lolis is creepy, that's not a reflection on my opinion of Shou. (That would be more influenced by the tracing scandal than anything.) It's no different to saying I think Murcielago is gratuitously violent. Just because I may say that doesn't mean I think Yoshimura Kana is a repressed spree killer or anything. (I do think it's gratuitously violent, but so's Quentin Tarantino, and it doesn't necessarily bother me.)

Definitely, if a loli offered herself to me and I would not be caught because she would not tell anyone, my brain would freeze and I would not know what to do, I prefer to not even think of that possibility, as I would possibly make a choice that should not be made.

and as i said before thats when it gets creepy, i like the way loli's are drawn, i like loli porn and i like non loli porn, say i was transported into a hentai world would i do a loli though? noooopee, granted it would be a hentai world so i would be having sex with SOMETHING by the end of it but see what you just said borders dangerously close to pedo

And you think I don't know that? I'm not the kind of person that could be classified as "good", the only reason I'm don't do a lot of shit is because I don't have the courage to do and I know I would go to jail or be beaten by someone as I'm small and weak, and I'm talking about any shit, not about touching little girls.

But even if I'm a shitty person, I don't think I would touch a little girl, sure the possibility of doing without any consequence would be really tempting, but even if you're a horrible person, there are things that should not be made, like rape or pedo, murder and torture is okay.

And if I was transported to hentai world, from 6 to 50 I would do any of them... but knowing my luck I would end up in the yaoi part of the hentai world.

Nothing can soft pedophilia, it involves real children, and sure pedophilia is a serious problem, but don't come saying that loli porn creates more pedophiles, okay lolicon is about drawings of children, but they will never be the same.

We got a little hotheaded didn't we?

Riddle me this: would you, in this day and age, type in the words ''pedophilia'', to tag-search anything unless you can show someone a well written tasteful article about the subject matter (or something that demonizes them, because I was referencing actually exactly that) that doesn't put you in a difficult spot that you have to justify yourself?

Lolis are substitute to children, there is no way to say this nicely, even if she is supossed to be a 1000 year old witch from the future or something, if you deconstruct ALL lolicon doujinshis it would be called pedophilia in their world.

Oh, and no I am not judging any of you, please never ever believe this.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 12:06PM

But even if I'm a shitty person, I don't think I would touch a little girl, sure the possibility of doing without any consequence would be really tempting, but even if you're a horrible person, there are things that should not be made, like rape or pedo, murder and torture is okay.

All right, is that because of your english/syntax/me missunderstanding something or are you saying murder and torture are okay?

Anyways, yes there are things that shouldn't be done and you not doing them - for whatever reason - is all nice and well but you need to realize that not every person thinks like that. The are serial rapists and murderers in jail and on the streets, so a person that happens to like lolicon and decides to try for himself is not all that implausible.

As Maus said better than I was able to: drawn or not, they are substitutes for children.

last edited at Mar 27, 2015 12:13PM

tfw you apparently inadvertently made someone reveal they're a paedophile on dynasty