ForumShimanami Tasogare discussion

Hot
joined Jun 5, 2015

So why exactly Misora got triggered?

Nep
joined Apr 28, 2016

i don't understand a damn thing

joined Oct 4, 2015

So why exactly Misora got triggered?

Possibly victim blaming ("Because you're cute")

More likely to do with how Misora only gets these compliments from Tasuku. Anonymous is the one Misora's interested in, supposedly, though this could also be an extreme tsundere reaction. Having Tasuku care so much yet the guy's totally not interested in them romantically.

They've always been extremely stand-offish towards Tasuku.

Edit: It also looks like Misora heavily struggles with gender perceptions. I think they might actually be a-gender with a preference for a female look. They seem to show a sort of revulsion to both genders and admire Anonymous for not being anyone or anything?

They might also having a growing sexual or romantic interest in men they perceive as in a negative light. (dirty desires and all that)

last edited at Oct 27, 2016 3:05AM

Hinataskype
joined May 26, 2011

ah, I like this a lot. A lot of deep stuff going on here, I got a little teary eyed too it hurt a bit to read some of this because it can be so painfully close to the truth.

Misora's little freak out.. or panic attack was very sudden and really caught me off guard. I want more though.. I like learning about all these characters.

Face
joined May 28, 2013

So much for sleeping tonight. Thought I'd just read one chapter to check it out, read every one.

Mikixseina
joined Jul 21, 2013

This hits so close to home, especially the feeling of wanting to come out but fearing your family rejecting you.

Roomfortwo
joined Feb 11, 2014

Damn, that's a great read. But that last chapter, "you got groped because you're cute", that was a total dick move. :/

joined Aug 6, 2015

This was a good read. Waiting for updates is going to be hell.

Cromartie%20highscool
joined Jun 7, 2014

a great break away from fluffy yuri, hope the update will be soon

joined May 7, 2015

Very nice art and good flow. It somehow reminds me of Bokura No Hentai.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Glad to see my suggestion got accepted :)

This hurts.

Btw, AFAIK, Misora identifies as male. Not as "agender". Though he may be unable to define what he is or wants to be yet. He's too young.

As for what triggered him, maybe it's the vague slut-shaming Tasuku made without thinking. As if he brought the groping upon himself, just by being cute in female clothes. Misora said "guys are gross". Meaning he feels uncomfortable looking like a boy. Doesn't mean he wants to be a girl. He just wants to look like one. Look like his sisters. He wants to be told the clothes look good on him. Not that he's cute.

And I have hunch the classmate Tasuku is attracted to, is going to corner him at some point.

last edited at Oct 27, 2016 2:16PM

Hot
joined Jun 5, 2015

I can't really see Tasuku's words as anything more than complement. It wasn't like he said it was Misora's fault for tempting it or anything. He simply stated the fact, that if Misora was seen as a boy or wasn't as pretty, he most likely wouldn't be targeted by scumbags like that. Definitely not like 3 times in the row. He was making genuine complement, "they are attacking you because you perfectly pass as a pretty young girl". Only two reason why Misora could get so angry about it is either if he doesn't like being called cute, which isn't true, or doesn't like to be seen as a women, which then sends totally mixed signs since he is cross-dressing. His outburst without explanation was childish, which I can blame on age, but getting all offensive and calling Tasuku faggot in front of people, which he knows he is afraid of them knowing, was just a plain dick move and I'd be really pissed or even hit Misora if I was in the same spot as Tasuku. Honestly, I'm surprised he kept calm enough to not start calling Misora a tranny or something back or trying to take his wig off. No matter how I look at it, Misora's tantrum was over the top and unjustified. He simply overreacted to Tasuku explaining why such thing happened to Misora, especially after showing clear disgust for such people.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Well, Misora is a pre-teen. Can't say he's exactly mature enough to know where he stands.

I don't know what he was expecting from Tasuku, but obviously not something like "cute girls have to expect that kind of behavior".

It shouldn't even be an issue about how Misora is cute or not. It just should be about how that guy was a predator and should be locked up. I mean, groping the ass of someone is already bad in itself, but of a grade schooler?

Roomfortwo
joined Feb 11, 2014

I don't doubt Tasuku meant that as a compliment, but in context, it wasn't.

And in the same context, Misora's outburst is understandable. He's never been comfortable enough to actually go outside with women's clothes, that's the first time he ever did and was happy with it so far. The groping came as an obvious shock and he turned to Tasuku to comfort, clinging to him, only to hear him say something that was meant as a compliment but could easily be heard as "that groper couldn't help doing that because you're cute like that, so it's your own fault".

When someone is getting groped or abused like that, you don't make it sound like it's "normal" or that the victim has some kind of responsibility in it because of how they are dressed or look. Hence why I consider his comment a dick move, though I admit it might be more a mistake caused by his ignorance. But considering how self-centered and hurt he's been so far from his friends teasing him about his sexuality, I'd have expected him to be a bit more sensitive.

Optimized-tonari_no_robot
joined Aug 24, 2015

Glad to see my suggestion got accepted :)

This hurts.

Btw, AFAIK, Misora identifies as male. Not as "agender". Though he may be unable to define what he is or wants to be yet. He's too young.

As for what triggered him, maybe it's the vague slut-shaming Tasuku made without thinking. As if he brought the groping upon himself, just by being cute in female clothes. Misora said "guys are gross". Meaning he feels uncomfortable looking like a boy. Doesn't mean he wants to be a girl. He just wants to look like one. Look like his sisters. He wants to be told the clothes look good on him. Not that he's cute.

And I have hunch the classmate Tasuku is attracted to, is going to corner him at some point.

Please don't air quotes agender Nya-chan.

last edited at Oct 27, 2016 3:03PM

Hot
joined Jun 5, 2015

Chantelune posted:

The groping came as an obvious shock and he turned to Tasuku to comfort, clinging to him, only to hear him say something that was meant as a compliment but could easily be heard as "that groper couldn't help doing that because you're cute like that, so it's your own fault".

But he never freaking said it. He explained to him the reasoning why he was targeted. Not that it was his fault, because he was dressed cute, but because those assholes choose cute people. He opened with "So disgusting people like that really do exist..." That doesn't sound like someone shaming you. Misora overreact on his own, assuming that is what Tasuku meant, even if he really assumed that, since we are still not 100% sure.

When someone is getting groped or abused like that, you don't make it sound like it's "normal" or that the victim has some kind of responsibility in it because of how they are dressed or look.

But that is how world works. Until we live with assholes that do that kind of shit, being pretty does make you a more likely victim. Maybe it isn't "normal" in a sense it should happen, but it is something that can happen more often, the prettier you are. And I agree that saying "it was your fault for dressing pretty" etc. is pretty terrible thing to say, but that doesn't take from you responsibility of being careful and defending yourself. Instead of lying or sugar-coating it, Tasuku did the reasonable thing and told Misora straight "if you are pretty, you need to be careful". Now that I thought about it more, that was actually the best thing he could tell him and yet still Misora goes ape shit over it. If you want to tell me it is sexist or something, that women should be able to dress however they want without getting molested, tell it to those scumbags that do it, not to me.

Dynasty
joined Apr 18, 2013

I also agree, that the main character didn't do anything wrong in the last chapter. Yeah, maybe the line he used was a little bit unfortunate, but it was totally obvious, he just wanted to calm down Misora, not to blame him for provoking the attacker. He also asked, if he saw who it was, so it also seems pretty obvious to me that if the Misora actually saw someone, then the main character would hit the pervert or something. So defnitely not a rude behaviour at all. On the other hand Misora was probably extremely shocked (considering his age and the situation), so it's understandable, he was exteremely agitated and got it the wrong way - but he was still the only one being extremely rude and insensitive So blaming the main character seems extremely harsh to me.

Roomfortwo
joined Feb 11, 2014

It's how Misora took it while being freaked out at the groping. People in such case tends to take things in the worst way. It's not what Tasuku meant, but that's how Misora understood it because of the situation, hence why it added fuel to his freaking out.

Hot
joined Jun 5, 2015

Chantelune posted:

It's how Misora took it while being freaked out at the groping. People in such case tends to take things in the worst way. It's not what Tasuku meant, but that's how Misora understood it because of the situation, hence why it added fuel to his freaking out.

Chantelune posted:

"you got groped because you're cute", that was a total dick move. :/

Chantelune posted:

could easily be heard as "that groper couldn't help doing that because you're cute like that, so it's your own fault".

Hence why I consider his comment a dick move, though I admit it might be more a mistake caused by his ignorance. But considering how self-centered and hurt he's been so far from his friends teasing him about his sexuality, I'd have expected him to be a bit more sensitive.

And yet you put 100% blame on Tasuku.

Purple Library Guy
Kare%20kano%20joker
joined Mar 3, 2013

Tasuku is older and didn't just get groped.
Certainly his intentions were not bad, he just didn't realize what he was doing, and that's understandable; he's young too, not savvy about this stuff really, it was in the moment and a quite stressful one, and look at all of the well-meaning people on here who somehow don't understand after thinking about it what the guy did wrong. But it's like running over someone by accident--that you didn't intend to does not mean they don't have broken bones and internal bleeding. It would have been better to say something different because that line was going to hit like a slap in the face, just as it's better to drive defensively and pay attention, because what you don't intend could fuck somebody up.

Purple Library Guy
Kare%20kano%20joker
joined Mar 3, 2013

Overall, this is seriously good. It's kind of a pity about the tags, they're technically accurate but result in a pretty misleading impression--I would never have read this if I only encountered it here.

Hot
joined Jun 5, 2015

Ok, you guys are making shit up now. It must be nice to live in your perfect world, where nothing bad can happen, if you believe it is wrong, so there is no need to be careful.

Hinataskype
joined May 26, 2011

An aside, but Tasuku has been doing nothing but pushing and pushing Misora into identifying as a girl, whether they want to or not. He has been constantly praising them whenever they present fem, saying that they look cute over and over. Which, isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the kid is going through a really confusing part of their life right now and should have some room to figure things out on their own. Gentle encouragement is nice, but I feel like Tasuku has been going over the line and coming off like he's already decided what gender Misora should be. And that might have also played into why Misora was so angry at what Tasuku said.

I don't entirely agree with this, I'll admit when Tasuku first found out about Misora dressing as a girl that yes, he definitely thought Misora did want to be a girl and thought it would be in his best interest to try and help Misora figure out what he wanted. But in a later chapter, Misora refers to himself as a guy and Tasuku smiles/is happy with Misora's own decision that he decided for himself. Misora LIKES being complemented that he looked good in women's clothes, as shown when complimented by Anonymous as well, and I believe Tasuku is just being honest. He's not pressuring Misora to identifying as a girl, he's just trying to be friends with him and help Misora sort out some of his insecurity issues like Tasuku himself has been helped.

Purple Library Guy
Kare%20kano%20joker
joined Mar 3, 2013

An aside, but Tasuku has been doing nothing but pushing and pushing Misora into identifying as a girl, whether they want to or not.

I also don't think that's true. Geeze, one or two compliments and now it's "pushing and pushing"?

Purple Library Guy
Kare%20kano%20joker
joined Mar 3, 2013

Ok, you guys are making shit up now. It must be nice to live in your perfect world, where nothing bad can happen, if you believe it is wrong, so there is no need to be careful.

Whatever else there might be no need for, I'd say there's certainly no need to get personal.

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