Forum › Step Up To The Plate, Ladies discussion

Gudako%20profile
joined Nov 9, 2015

it's always fun getting into a yuri futa doujin and wondering "Who's gonna have the doodle?"

1362786978883
joined Dec 7, 2013

I appreciate that this is one of those rare futa doujins where the plot isn't basically "Holy fuck, dicks are AMAZING!" But on the other hand the presence of the dick is a bit baffling as there's no real reason for Rin to have one in the first place. You could do the exact same scene without it, and nobody would realize. So...really, why bother?

Why does futa get scrutinized so heavily compared to other kinks, geez. You barely ever see comments like this on basically any other tag, yet every futa doujin I click on will have at least a couple of people asking why it wasn't just 'regular yuri' or whatever.

It might be a bit shocking to people on here, but there are authors who like to draw futa - some prefer to draw it over vanilla yuri or het, some just like to draw it alongside their other works. So they do. it's literally that simple. They liked the idea of a futa story with Maki and Rin (not a yuri one or a genderbent one or anything like that) so they drew it.

And people saying "hurr the author only picked rin cuz she looks like a guy!" are really reaching hard for something to criticize. Not only has Bocha drawn vanilla MakiRin before (so it's obvious they're just a fan of the pairing in general), but there's plenty of futa Love Live doujins about basically every girl and pairing, yet as soon as it's the tomboy it's suddenly a grave sin? (lol who am I kidding, futa itself is a grave sin to a lot of the more fanatical yuri fans anyway)

Like, just stop. It's a kink. It's a pretty damn popular kink in ero doujins. There's likely no deeper meaning to any of this besides the author finding a futa ver. of this particular pairing hot.

Also sorry if this got a bit heated, it's just been bubbling up for a while since it seems there's the same damn comments and criticisms (or outright bashing) on every futa piece -_-

Heres%20wakasa
joined Jul 28, 2016

Wait, Rin's supposed to be a tomboy? As someone who has never watched the anime or read the manga and just reads the yuri doujins, I was really not aware of this... She doesn't look all that boyish to me, but I guess all those things where a girl looks exactly like a dude (nothing wrong with that, of course, just saying that it's fairly common and all) has made it difficult for me to recognize more subtle boyish appearances... I don't know... then again, it seems that RinPana doujins don't really show up much around here (at least not as much as NicoMaki and EliNozo doujins), so I suppose it's understandable that I know next to nothing about her (is she the girl that always says nya or is that Hanayo?).

last edited at Sep 17, 2016 9:02PM

Optimized-tonari_no_robot
joined Aug 24, 2015

I appreciate that this is one of those rare futa doujins where the plot isn't basically "Holy fuck, dicks are AMAZING!" But on the other hand the presence of the dick is a bit baffling as there's no real reason for Rin to have one in the first place. You could do the exact same scene without it, and nobody would realize. So...really, why bother?

Why does futa get scrutinized so heavily compared to other kinks, geez. You barely ever see comments like this on basically any other tag, yet every futa doujin I click on will have at least a couple of people asking why it wasn't just 'regular yuri' or whatever.

It might be a bit shocking to people on here, but there are authors who like to draw futa - some prefer to draw it over vanilla yuri or het, some just like to draw it alongside their other works. So they do. it's literally that simple. They liked the idea of a futa story with Maki and Rin (not a yuri one or a genderbent one or anything like that) so they drew it.

And people saying "hurr the author only picked rin cuz she looks like a guy!" are really reaching hard for something to criticize. Not only has Bocha drawn vanilla MakiRin before (so it's obvious they're just a fan of the pairing in general), but there's plenty of futa Love Live doujins about basically every girl and pairing, yet as soon as it's the tomboy it's suddenly a grave sin? (lol who am I kidding, futa itself is a grave sin to a lot of the more fanatical yuri fans anyway)

Like, just stop. It's a kink. It's a pretty damn popular kink in ero doujins. There's likely no deeper meaning to any of this besides the author finding a futa ver. of this particular pairing hot.

Also sorry if this got a bit heated, it's just been bubbling up for a while since it seems there's the same damn comments and criticisms (or outright bashing) on every futa piece -_-

I wouldn't go so far as to say the author is getting hate for this. Rather its just a lazy, uninspired choice to slap a dick onto a character that is the least fem of the LL girls. It doesn't fit any kind of narrative, and certainly not a transgender one, reiterating that the author has no such intent and it is - as you say - just a fetish. However, unlike a decent amount of other fetishes, futanari can easily come across as harmful to the trans community. Futanari fetishizes, and at the same time, erases transgender people from representation in media. It turns the transwoman's body into a deviant desire, and acts to dehumanize real transgender people in the eyes of the media consumer.

So yes, when there are the number of trans people that use these forums, there is bound to be active discussion in these threads. To many trans people futanari is not just a harmless fetish to be hand waved and forgotten about as it can have a social effect on how people view them. That said, many of us are old and tired and accept that there is just not much media with transgender characters, so while futa isnt ideal, it can act as a makeshift outlet sometimes. So instead of being angry, I would just rather discuss/critique etc. Its more fun that way. And less exhausting.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Why does futa get scrutinized so heavily compared to other kinks, geez.

-looks at this thread-

-looks at the Yuzumori-san thread-

-looks back at this thread-

Seems legit.

Silliness aside though, what exactly did you expect? It's a fetish, by definition it's not part of the norm. You're gonna get people who don't agree with it, that's part of what you get when you sign up. If anything, considering how most people are on this site for girl-girl romance and/or lesbian sex, to say nothing of the fact that we have a lot of lesbians and trans women (and often both at the same time!) in the forums, the response to "You know what these lesbians need? More dick!" is a lot calmer than I would have expected. Most of the real "WTF is this shit?" reactions seem to be reserved for stuff like the horse dick one and the "throbbing, veiny erection that's wider than your waist" stories. As transbikes says, there's a lot more discussion/critique in this forum than actual hate and freakouts.

But even so, there are futa stories on this very reader that get loads of compliments. Look at Passionate Gaze, Happy Cherry 2 or those cute Touhou ones by Yudepii. People like those, and the most negative seems to be the occasional "welp, I'm not really into this". There are even some "throbbing member" stories that people seem to love, like Magnum Koichi, or those Celtrance ones where Kagami inexplicably has an enormous boner, or that downdight weird but weirdly heartwarming one with the poison futa ninjas getting each other pregnant. And let's not forget Light My Fire or I'll Hear Your Excuses. There's a lot of futa here that gets positive reactions, and even this one has people liking it.

Anime-anime-boy-black-and-white-boy-favim.com-1570867
joined May 7, 2014

' ' No matter what, I still very enjoy this.

joined Sep 12, 2014

I'm cool with futanari but not like this. Rin looks like a boy. I kind of want to give this one a "het" tag

Capture
joined Mar 12, 2014

If the artist really want to make Rin a self-insert "male" character, she wouldn't have all those nya moe stench about her, her mouth wouldn't be that cat-like shape and her eyes wouldn't be this big. Also, big note that is this isn't one of those "penis is awesome" futa.

I think artist just ship them is all. I enjoy it

Img_0469
joined Sep 9, 2016

Least fav rin x maki simply because rin is a girl and maki is hella gay so there's no point making rin a guy. Now if it was a strap on then that's different but this wasn't good. Maki's face was okay though

joined Apr 18, 2018

Rin looks like a fucking guy. Well whatever, on to the next one.

joined Aug 11, 2019

I appreciate that this is one of those rare futa doujins where the plot isn't basically "Holy fuck, dicks are AMAZING!" But on the other hand the presence of the dick is a bit baffling as there's no real reason for Rin to have one in the first place. You could do the exact same scene without it, and nobody would realize. So...really, why bother?

I don't hate it, but I'm not going to re-read it. Put me down for a "shrug and walk away" reaction.

It's probably because sex is much more pleasurable and meaningful with a dick.

Are you being sarcastic or are you just plain stupid? "More meaningful"? " More pleasurable"? Shut the fuck up, you sound like you don't know what a clitoris is, neither that there is more to sex than piv sex.

Junna-icon_jpg
joined Jul 29, 2017

Why are people always freak out over dicks, holy fuck. While I do think that there's definitely legitimate criticism and concern to be had over erasure... Still, a lot of the comments here just comes off as gender essentialist BS, honestly.

To those people who thought this is a het or genderbender... seriously? Just because Rin here wore traditionally non-feminine clothing and have dick doesn't mean she is any less a girl. (not to mention that she wears a skirt in the cover)

Futa type stuff makes me kinda sad because it feels like it undoes all that struggle and eventual acceptance to be how she wants to be.

You only see it this way if you seriously think that Rin simply having a dick means having her feminity erased. Sorry, but I disagree. (more on that later)

on top of that as a trans woman myself Rin never, ever feels like she's trans in the series.

And I also know lots of trans people (which may or may not include myself) who view/HC Rin as trans, likely the most popular HC in LL, at that! To the point of arguing that Rin is at very least a trans-coded character. A lot of this can be attributed to her character arc of being more confident with her feminity— which a lot of trans women i know can relate to.

That said, many of us are old and tired and accept that there is just not much media with transgender characters, so while futa isnt ideal, it can act as a makeshift outlet sometimes.

I can definitely agree with the broader point of futanari as a fetishization. But there are trans people (which may or may not include me) who are willing to (hesitantly) look past the problematic parts of the genre and seek to find gems like this very doujin.

It's always a joy for me to find futa that doesn't focus much on (and fetishize) the dick, like it's just there unlike those doujins with ridiculous gigantic dicks And it's especially futa doujins like these that really could've been a transgirl yuri one. And oh yeah, kinda related but there might be a problem of transgirl doujins that get mistagged as futa in hentai sites.

Also, the other reason why, unlike most people here, I'm not concerned about the dick here that much is because I don't see the very concept of dicks as, intrinsically, a male thing. Seriously y'all need to learn about the mouthfeel. Feminine dicks, girl dicks, are a thing, y'know, and they are not any less feminine.

This is also why I have zero problems thinking all-pussy yuri not much differently from a futa yuri or a trans yuri. As long as it's between girls, it's yuri. And a girl having a dick, may it be a futa or a transgirl, doesn't mean that they are any less of a girl. Fuck gender essentialism, basically. (Oh yeah, might be a little too late to say, but I define futa as a fictional trope that involves a cis girl that, by artistic license, just so happened to have a dick)

Personally, it's doujins like this (which can easily be otherwise interpreted as a trans girl yuri) that the little lesbian trans girl in me really find validating, honestly.

last edited at Oct 31, 2019 7:11AM

W
joined Jun 5, 2015

Perlen297 posted:

This is also why I have zero problems thinking all-pussy yuri not much differently from a futa yuri or a trans yuri.

Great for you. Not everyone can see it like you though.

As long as it's between girls, it's yuri.

Nobody (at least in this thread) questioned it, but I agree that futanari girls (or trans girls just to be clear) aren't any less girls.

Feminine dicks, girl dicks, are a thing, y'know, and they are not any less feminine.

How masculine or feminine dick is is up to debate, but for most (or at least me) the issue is more that I'm attracted to pussies, while I'm not attracted to dicks and I can't really change that. Same for boobs. I'm specifically attracted to female anatomy, so giving girl a dick is heresy for me.

Oh yeah, might be a little too late to say, but I define futa as a fictional trope that involves a cis girl that, by artistic license, just so happened to have a dick.

Unless something changed when I wasn't looking, I'm pretty sure that always was the definition of futanari.

To elaborate, my main issue with most of futanari works is that they seem to exist mainly for 2 reasons. Either that artist have no idea how to write sex between 2 girls or that without dick, there'd be no way for male reader to insert (pun unavoidable) themselves into the sex. And both of those are insulting, because whatever you agree with it or not, they do perpetuate the stereotype that dick is everything in sex. Without it you can't really experience the true pleasure. I saw plenty hentais where experiencing real dick was painted as the ultimate experience. Even if before it girl used dildos, which often were bigger than any dick could realistically be, having sex with the "real deal" was still so much more amazing.

Also, it only applies to futanari stuff. True trans stories are completely different matter. As I said my issue is about adding dick to a girl, rather than when said girl was born with dick in the first place.

And there's also my 100% biased opinion that there's not enough yuri and the one that we have rarely portray lesbian sex accurately and/or well, so whenever we get next futanari doujinshi instead of yuri one, I'm annoyed (even if I know, if it wasn't futa, it probably wouldn't exist in the first place).

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

As I said my issue is about adding dick to a girl, rather than when said girl was born with dick in the first place.

Most of the time, adding a dick is either made by magic/god/drugs and the dick disappeared at the end and for the second case i do believe it's called Hermaphrodism, which is more or less what Futanari stand for. I'm not an expert so i don't know if Hermaphrodism and Trans can be linked. I believe Futa Trans is more in the gender bender tag, then again i'm no expert so i can be wrong.

Junna-icon_jpg
joined Jul 29, 2017

To elaborate, my main issue with most of futanari works is that they seem to exist mainly for 2 reasons. Either that artist have no idea how to write sex between 2 girls or that without dick, there'd be no way for male reader to insert (pun unavoidable) themselves into the sex.

Oh, those are totally valid reasons and I definitely agree. A lot of futa works do play into that stereotype being "dick is everything", which I hate.

Also, it only applies to futanari stuff. True trans stories are completely different matter. As I said my issue is about adding dick to a girl, rather than when said girl was born with dick in the first place.

When it comes to the "adding dick to a girl", just gonna say that this can be done in and go to different ways– and which way it goes pretty much dictates whether or not I would enjoy that particular futa work. That said, I'm not rather fond of doujins that have a girl grow a dick and then all the other girls around her suddenly want to fuck her. What doujins I do enjoy are those that start with the girl already having a dick, without explanation nor questions asked. And particularly those that are written as your typical yuri rather than like a het doujin (hope you get what I mean– like, they're just so wildly different).

One example of that is this very doujin. Rin just has a dick and that's okay. And it's usually doujins like this that can be easily be interpreted as transgirl yuri, making it more validating, for me personally.

When it comes to the discourse around futanari, whenever there's someone who says that they don't like it, the only thing that really matters to me is the reason behind that dislike. Most of the time, it's transphobic and gender essentialist BS. Well heck, transphobia and gender essentialism, in general, are prevalent issues around futanari and that applies to the authors too– some of them do actually play into the whole "making yuri het".

Lastly, just like to point out that I'm not 100% comfortable defending futanari, like, most of it is just plain bad, problematic and plays into harmful stereotypes. But then, within the trope is plenty of diversity of different works with their own takes on the concept– and there are works that just gets it right and isn't just a fetish, like this one. This is why I barely read futa doujins anymore and just go to Ao3/fanfiction for futa content instead. In there, there's like a disproportionate amount of actually good and "yuri-style" futa yuri compared to futa doujins. I recommend especially Love Live works, especially because there's a couple of authors in Ao3 that do lots of great futa yuri fanfics of that series. Go check 'em out!

last edited at Oct 31, 2019 12:57PM

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

Again, i'm no expert and i might say bullshit but it's farely rare that Futanari in doujin are called trans, for what i've read most of the time they call themselves Futanari or third gender like in Futanari no Elf

last edited at Oct 31, 2019 1:43PM

Junna-icon_jpg
joined Jul 29, 2017

Lilliwyt posted:

Again, i'm no expert and i might say bullshit but it's farely rare that Futanari in doujin are called trans, for what i've read most of the time they call themselves Futanari or third gender like in Futanari no Elf

Futanari and trans girls are not the same at all (futa are cis girls with a dick), so just nope. The only cases where it'd be fine for one to call the girl trans in a futa doujin is when the doujin itself isn't a futa work but actually a trans one. A doujin site mistagging a trans girl as futa actually does happen often. Though it still stands that trans people in hentai/doujins are really really rare.

last edited at Oct 31, 2019 3:09PM

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

This seems like an odd place to resurrect this hoary old argument seeing how long it's been since anyone actually commented on it. I mean seriously, there were two comments over the course of two and a half years prior to your contribution.

Let's allow the poor thing to rest in peace already.

Junna-icon_jpg
joined Jul 29, 2017

Nezchan posted:

This seems like an odd place to resurrect this hoary old argument seeing how long it's been since anyone actually commented on it. I mean seriously, there were two comments over the course of two and a half years prior to your contribution.

Let's allow the poor thing to rest in peace already.

Oh sorry about that. I just so happened to find this doujin, got curious with the comments and ended up really itching to respond to certain posts in the thread.

Edit: Unless someone wants to bump this further... regardless, I'm already satisfied with the response I got.

last edited at Nov 1, 2019 3:52AM

Z7geahm
joined Sep 7, 2016

looks like het sex to me, at least show us Rin's upper body.

Minami
joined Jun 25, 2019

looks like het sex to me, at least show us Rin's upper body.

Author said in the postword that it want to draw Rin with a dick and not Rin as a boy so it's not het.

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