You have a point and I assume is related with the weird fixation the fandom has for seeing Yuzu and Mei fucking. I mean sure, it would be nice but I don't think that is something that would add something meaningful to the story as a whole.

I don't care if they have sex or not, though I do think sex in a romance story can be a meaningful act due to it being a way to progress physical intimacy, even if it's off camera. For some it's an important part of a relationship.

Also Citrus tends to be very sterile in general so I don't blame people for wanting more.

Personally, it's exactly because it's not a sexual series that I never understood the expectation for sex.

This has been discussed innumerable times here. The "readers only complain because they just want to see Mei & Yuzu fuck" canard has been refuted so many times and in such specific detail that to assert it again amounts to trolling.

As for people's expectations, I think Citrus at least early on was commonly thought of as this spicy taboo romance that would go places a lot of more fluffy romance wouldn't. That it would be more along the lines of Flowerchild's works maybe. Also perfectly fine if you don't agree with that impression, it's just the impression I got back in the day and some of what I saw people expecting when the original series first started. I sometimes still see social media treating Citrus like the most unholy and taboo of all lesbian romance because of the "incest", which feels like a joke to me but somehow people are serious.

Agreed. That perception was there, and it always didn't make sense. A lot of that came from the anime and reactions to the story's start, but the manga never went beyond its opening. People seemed to run away with "incest" and "sex". It's just never been that kind of story, and the series rationalized the opening sexual situations as part of Mei's coping with her life at that time. It was always just a moment. I wouldn't be against a sex scene eventually. I agree that it can be impactful. It just doesn't seem like Sabu cares for that. Maybe if she can find a narrative purpose for it (like there was in Bloom into You).

This has been discussed innumerable times here. The "readers only complain because they just want to see Mei & Yuzu fuck" canard has been refuted so many times and in such specific detail that to assert it again amounts to trolling.

Point me to the person who said or even implied that in this recent conversation? The topic was mentioned as part of a different talk. I think you're confused about what's being discussed.

last edited at May 23, 2025 5:38PM

Funnily enough, if you go back and re-read the final chapter episode of citrus, it can be argued that Yuzu and Mei did fuck offscreen.

last edited at May 23, 2025 5:42PM

This has been discussed innumerable times here. The "readers only complain because they just want to see Mei & Yuzu fuck" canard has been refuted so many times and in such specific detail that to assert it again amounts to trolling.

Point me to the person who said or even implied that in this recent conversation? The topic was mentioned as part of a different talk. I think you're confused about what's being discussed.

Right, I‘m confused. Lol.

Citrus has always been “Teenage Premarital Lesbian Bed Death.” Anyone who expected anything else is just being delusional.

last edited at May 23, 2025 5:48PM

Oh I was thinking back before the anime was even announced. Even just looking at the early covers and the cover picture Wikipedia uses, yes I know there's the classic saying don't judge a book by it's cover, regardless they definitely had an impression on people and expectations.

Where it's funny when I show friends Citrus covers next to covers for more wholesome Yuri series where the couple has a sex life, and my friends always think I'm messing with them when I ask guess which couple has a sex life?

Anyways it is was it is. At this point I'd simply enjoy more date chapters with them...getting pancakes together or something. Anything really at this point lol

Right, I‘m confused. Lol.

Citrus has always been “Teenage Premarital Lesbian Bed Death.” Anyone who expected anything else is just being delusional.

...Sure? Genuinely not sure what you're doing. Is this a bit? More sarcasm? Not very useful.

Where it's funny when I show friends Citrus covers next to covers for more wholesome Yuri series where the couple has a sex life, and my friends always think I'm messing with them when I ask guess which couple has a sex life?

Yeah, those covers can be funny and good marketing lol. I could see that. It's just once you actually read it, the series is pretty standard when it comes to actual sexual expression. Maybe we'll get that date once this busy period is over though. You think they don't have a sex life? Has the series communicated that? It wouldn't surprise me if they do have sex off screen but I don't remember if the series has said anything one way or the other.

last edited at May 23, 2025 7:04PM

Good marketing in at least ability to get people to check the series out, though awkward when they find out the series isn't what the early covers suggest lol

You think they don't have a sex life? Has the series communicated that? It wouldn't surprise me if they do have sex off screen but I don't remember if the series has said anything one way or the other.

You think maybe they're ninja assassins or JAV idols offscreen? They haven't shown it, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

Good marketing in at least ability to get people to check the series out, though awkward when they find out the series isn't what the early covers suggest lol

It worked out for her though but yeah. The series was a bit "risque" at first anyway so I think people got what they wanted. Well we know they did since the series took off. I mentioned the anime earlier but even getting an anime as an unambiguous yuri series back then was a feat.

last edited at May 23, 2025 7:58PM

Good marketing in at least ability to get people to check the series out, though awkward when they find out the series isn't what the early covers suggest lol

It worked out for her though but yeah. The series was a bit "risque" at first anyway so I think people got what they wanted. Well we know they did since the series took off. I mentioned the anime earlier but even getting an anime as an unambiguous yuri series back then was a feat.

Yeah the series was a big success back then, which in my opinion anyhow is the main reason why the series is still going with this sequel. The original series had problems but generally it had more going on that engaged the audience, this sequel in my opinion largely feels like it's heavily leaning on the previous success of the series and it's established fans. That's simply my thoughts and regardless I'm happy for people that are enjoying Plus.

Personally, it's exactly because it's not a sexual series

Citrus was quite sexy early on, including Mei nearly forcing herself onto Yuzu. And yeah, very sexy covers. And by the end, they're engaged and sharing a bed.

hat I never understood the expectation for sex. The desire to see it? Sure. But there seemed to be an expectation for something the series never was or tried to be.

Expectation for something the series basically promised. Also, most people complaining are not actually demanding explicit X-rated scenes; your "expectation for sex" words are what provoked Blastaar's response. What we expected was any sign of physical affection or chemistry, not to mention emotional affection.

In Citrus, they were a pretty horny pair of teenagers. In Citrus+, they mostly act like actual sisters who are forced to share a bed for some reason. It's disconcerting and disappointing, and the very rare exceptions don't save the series.

Expectation for something the series basically promised. Also, most people complaining are not actually demanding explicit X-rated scenes; your "expectation for sex" words are what provoked Blastaar's response. What we expected was any sign of physical affection or chemistry, not to mention emotional affection.

Blastaars original response was this:

"This has been discussed innumerable times here. The "readers only complain because they just want to see Mei & Yuzu fuck" canard has been refuted so many times and in such specific detail that to assert it again amounts to trolling."

Which had nothing to do with anything being discussed and certainly wasn't anything I'd ever said or implied.

The whole focus on sex was just a side comment that someone made, which me and another commenter start talking about our feelings about sex in Citrus, casually. No one said anything about sex being the reason for disliking Citrus. I'm not sure what Blastaar even jumped in to say, honestly. It was completely unrelated.

Citrus was quite sexy early on, including Mei nearly forcing herself onto Yuzu. And yeah, very sexy covers. And by the end, they're engaged and sharing a bed.

Yeah, I already addressed in my earlier comment. I said that it was sexual earlier on largely as a result of Mei's mental state and the situation they were in but it never crossed the lines it set. Sexuality was present but nothing promising or implying sex. As the series progressed it became more and more clear it was focused on their interpersonal drama and not much else. So by the time we were onto Citrus+, years after Citrus, I didn't get the expectation still being there for some.

As for my saying "expectations for sex," yeah some people do have that expectation or desire. You yourself said you felt the series even promised it. So I'm not sure what you mean there.

last edited at May 23, 2025 9:20PM

The covers become less horny and more dramatic as the series progresses tho

And the vol 1 cover got recontextualized when it was reused for the special edition of citrus+ vol 1

The covers become less horny and more dramatic as the series progresses tho

I know, I did specify early covers in my wording for that reason. The initial covers were meant to be very alluring and it set certain expectations for people at that time.

The covers become less horny and more dramatic as the series progresses tho

I know, I did specify early covers in my wording for that reason. The initial covers were meant to be very alluring and it set certain expectations for people at that time.

You're right about the early covers and your point was appreciated before things got derailed. I hadn't thought about them until you mentioned it. I also didn't realize the Citrus+ cover was a direct callback to volume 1 (but fully clothed with wedding rings, smiles and a loving grab rather than all that mental anguish and skin).

last edited at May 24, 2025 7:54AM

This pretense of being baffled about what I was getting at is fascinating; rainbow8 had no trouble at all. Readers of Citrus+ didn’t necessarily expect explicit on-panel sex scenes (although obviously some did), but they did expect, as they had every reason to do, a yuri romance manga that built on the MCs’ prior relationship from the original series rather than an arbitrary regression and a substantially rebooted characterization of one of the two protagonists.

And the idea that “for all we know, Yuzu and Mei might be having sex off-panel” is a bizarre violation of the most fundamental principles of understanding narrative. Certainly some actions are always assumed to take place outside a story’s representation (we don’t see every meal, bath, or bathroom break a character makes), but when the story itself makes a major point of the characters giving each other kisses on the cheek, the notion that sex may be taking place off-panel because it’s not thematically important is quite preposterous.

It’s long been obvious that the series as a whole has backed off considerably from its fairly racy beginnings, but the depiction of the MCs on the covers and in associated marketing images still emphasize a degree of romantic connection and physical intimacy that the actual story rarely even remotely approaches.

This pretense of being baffled about what I was getting at is fascinating; rainbow8 had no trouble at all. Readers of Citrus+ didn’t necessarily expect explicit on-panel sex scenes (although obviously some did), but they did expect, as they had every reason to do, a yuri romance manga that built on the MCs’ prior relationship from the original series rather than an arbitrary regression and a substantially rebooted characterization of one of the two protagonists.

I find it genuinely difficult to understand when you're being sarcastic and interjecting into a conversation with unrelated points. A straightforward response would have been much clearer—most of your replies have been the opposite. You also tend to be consistently sarcastic, short, indirect, and rude. That communication style causes regular miscommunications, as I’ve seen. Regarding the "some obviously did" comment about expecting sex, yes, I was specifically referring to those individuals who expect sex. So, once again, I’m not sure why we’re generalizing as though I said everyone expects sex.

And the idea that “for all we know, Yuzu and Mei might be having sex off-panel” is a bizarre violation of the most fundamental principles of understanding narrative. Certainly some actions are always assumed to take place outside a story’s representation (we don’t see every meal, bath, or bathroom break a character makes), but when the story itself makes a major point of the characters giving each other kisses on the cheek, the notion that sex may be taking place off-panel because it’s not thematically important is quite preposterous.

Once again, you're responding in an overly dramatic way. I wasn’t making an argument about whether they had sex off-screen—I mentioned it briefly as part of a question to gauge someone else’s reaction. The point was, I didn't remember if the series had hinted at their having a sexual life off-screen, so I was wondering out loud before maybe rereading for myself. I said: "It wouldn't surprise me if they do have sex off-screen, but I don't remember if the series has said anything one way or the other." Yes, if they have a sexual life Sabu doesn't want to show, I would expect the series to hint at or communicate that in some way. I didn't remember. I don't know how that comment turns into "bizarre violations of the most fundamental principles of understanding narrative."

It’s long been obvious that the series as a whole has backed off considerably from its fairly racy beginnings, but the depiction of the MCs on the covers and in associated marketing images still emphasizes a degree of romantic connection and physical intimacy that the actual story rarely even remotely approaches.

That’s a fair and accurate point, but I was talking about whether it implies an expectation of sex for those who do expect it—especially since the other comment suggested that sex was essentially promised. They apparently are part of that group. So once again, this is completely unrelated to the conversation I was having with someone else.

last edited at May 24, 2025 9:43AM

Because that's intentional. Arata was introduced as a way to make Yuzu feel truly jealous, and she was just acting out because she didn't know how to deal with those feelings. I'd argue that if the underlying theme in the original story was Mei's personal growth spurred by Yuzu's presence in her life, citrus+ is all about moving Yuzu's character forward.

Yuzu being jealous (for no reason) happened the first maybe in chapter 2 of Citrus and has happened several times since, but I thought we were past that. We're talking about 2 girls that not only have been together for quite a while, but they're officially engaged. Do we still need introduction of new characters for yet another unsubstantiated jealousy? Is this the only thing that happens in this relationship?
Concerning sex, I never really expected it to be shown, though it's an integral part of a relationship and should still happen even if off-screen. However that's probably not even in the top 5 things that this relationship still needs to properly develop, I literally cannot see Yuzu and Mei being a consolidated couple at all.

last edited at May 24, 2025 9:30AM

Yuzu being jealous (for no reason) happened the first maybe in chapter 2 of Citrus and has happened several time later on, but I thought we were past that. We're talking about 2 girls that not only have been together for quite a while, but they're officially engaged. Do we still need introduction of new characters for yet another unsubstantiated jealousy? Is this the only thing that happens in this relationship?

I just saw your comment right as I posted my response to someone else. I agree. I don't think Arata being used primarily for jealousy works as well. Personally, I don't think that's his role, or at least not his main role. I was worried that would be all he was used for, but as it's progressed, it seems his purpose has either shifted or was always meant to be more.

What's your PFP btw?

last edited at May 24, 2025 9:33AM

Yuzu being jealous (for no reason) happened the first maybe in chapter 2 of Citrus and has happened several time later on, but I thought we were past that. We're talking about 2 girls that not only have been together for quite a while, but they're officially engaged. Do we still need introduction of new characters for yet another unsubstantiated jealousy? Is this the only thing that happens in this relationship?

I just saw your comment right as I posted my response to someone else. I agree. I don't think Arata being used primarily for jealousy works as well. Personally, I don't think that's his role, or at least not his main role. I was worried that would be all he was used for, but as it's progressed, it seems his purpose has either shifted or was always meant to be more.

What's your PFP btw?

It's Undertaker from Kuroshitsuji/Black Butler

Yuzu being jealous (for no reason) happened the first maybe in chapter 2 of Citrus and has happened several time later on, but I thought we were past that. We're talking about 2 girls that not only have been together for quite a while, but they're officially engaged. Do we still need introduction of new characters for yet another unsubstantiated jealousy? Is this the only thing that happens in this relationship?

I just saw your comment right as I posted my response to someone else. I agree. I don't think Arata being used primarily for jealousy works as well. Personally, I don't think that's his role, or at least not his main role. I was worried that would be all he was used for, but as it's progressed, it seems his purpose has either shifted or was always meant to be more.

What's your PFP btw?

It's Undertaker from Kuroshitsuji/Black Butler

Isn't there a new season of Black Butler out now? I've never read or watched, but that image was cool. Thanks!

Yuzu being jealous (for no reason) happened the first maybe in chapter 2 of Citrus and has happened several time later on, but I thought we were past that. We're talking about 2 girls that not only have been together for quite a while, but they're officially engaged. Do we still need introduction of new characters for yet another unsubstantiated jealousy? Is this the only thing that happens in this relationship?

I just saw your comment right as I posted my response to someone else. I agree. I don't think Arata being used primarily for jealousy works as well. Personally, I don't think that's his role, or at least not his main role. I was worried that would be all he was used for, but as it's progressed, it seems his purpose has either shifted or was always meant to be more.

What's your PFP btw?

It's Undertaker from Kuroshitsuji/Black Butler

Isn't there a new season of Black Butler out now? I've never read or watched, but that image was cool. Thanks!

Yeah a new season is currently airing and wraps up in June I believe. The mangaka also worked on Twisted Wonderland, an official Disney villain husbando IP, and an anime for the IP starts in October, though I'm not sure how much Yana Toboso is involved. Still in theory it sounds like a good year for people that are fans of her work.

You can imply sex without drawing porn. Show them in bed with bare shoulders peeking out from under the sheets. Draw one pouncing on the other, with hearts and "aah!" in the next panel, as if the character are below the panel border. Quips about being worn out last night. Good old fade to black. Taking a shower or bath together when mom's not home (and again, you don't even have to draw them naked in the shower) Etc.

Instead, have they ever kissed on the lips in Citrus+? Instead they mostly act like sisters, with Yuzu being a bit clingy. Exceptions being the "day in the life" special, quite recent in the sequence, and the push-down, also recent and also rejected by Mei at the time.

Instead, have they ever kissed on the lips in Citrus+? Instead they mostly act like sisters, with Yuzu being a bit clingy. Exceptions being the "day in the life" special, quite recent in the sequence, and the push-down, also recent and also rejected by Mei at the time.

I don't think they act like sisters at all but we'll have to agree to disagree there. To me they act like what I always assumed they were meant to mirror: a stereotypical old japanese worker type who is a bit reserved physically and emotionally, with their spouse who is more open and bubbly. They just seem like an old school married couple that has skipped certain steps but are behind on others.

You can imply sex without drawing porn. Show them in bed with bare shoulders peeking out from under the sheets. Draw one pouncing on the other, with hearts and "aah!" in the next panel, as if the character are below the panel border. Quips about being worn out last night. Good old fade to black. Taking a shower or bath together when mom's not home (and again, you don't even have to draw them naked in the shower) Etc.

Yeah that's all I expect this series to do (which is part of the discussion we were having). I don't expect to see any extended sex scene and even sex scenes don't imply porn. They can be tasteful (like Fluffycow mentioned) but even that seems far fetched for this series.

I don't remember if the series has ever hinted at anything more between them but I'm assuming it hasn't. It wouldn't surprise me if we do eventually get something that hints at their having had a more developed sexual life but that's to be seen and doesn't seem like a focus at all.

last edited at May 24, 2025 3:22PM

what an intense debate and how clarifying of the current situation of citrus+. if as readers we had received our dose of romance between yuzu and mei in citrus+ today we would not be talking about sex or sex no, we would be enjoying "that passionate kiss, that romantic dinner, that trip of lovers to an onsen" etc... an explicit sex scene between yuzu and mei was never a priority for the majority of citrus readers. to think that mei and yuzu have had sex off screen is absurd because the story makes this point clear. yuzu is like an open book and matsuri would have already informed us readers hahahahaha. or is it that we do not remember how yuzu felt when matsuri gave her a book of "how to please your partner" in vol 4 hahahaha. the only ones who "fuck like rabbits" off-screen when they are together are mei's father and yuzu's mother in the room next to where our useless lesbians sleep hahahahaha. sabu decided to nerf mei from the beginning of citrus+ in that conversation with matsuri and putting the president mei and her responsibilities above yuzu's girlfriend very much above even when the relationship could not start from scratch, because they are official girlfriends and they promised to get married, which makes their relationship already on another level. greetings

last edited at May 25, 2025 4:38AM