This manga is definitely full of controversy - but it quickly became one of my favorites. This actually kind of shows the shit that people have to put up with in their lives and the characters really show depth. Pretty damn refreshing and thought provoking. I really empathize with botan. People need to use their brain and think about the consequences of their actions, and that being righteous may be different from being right. As you grow older, you realize that life is not moral dichotomy. Kashiwa fucked up big time.

last edited at Feb 12, 2015 9:24PM

I can see this and I agree, but I really, really didn't like how he was forgiven so easily. It kind of came across as "look at me being a pushy douchebag, but I am also the voice of reason!" And so he also ended up being the "hero." I can accept him as a flawed character, but not when he's also seen as the savior who doesn't reflect on his douchey behavior.

Oh, hell yeah, for sure. I still think it's straight-up bizarre how much screentime he's getting for a character who is really about as important as Botan's (ex)boss/lover. I think it's been mentioned a lot, in the comments, that for a story that gets it so uncommonly right when it comes to transgender experiences, the reflexive acceptance of normative gender bullshit is pretty jarring. This total side character is getting protagonist-level passes for shit that should (if only) relegate a boy to B-tier distraction at best, but it's fine for him because it's just so SWEET and ROMANTIC when guys are aggressively insensitive and continually hurt and disrespect the women in their lives because they're just so GOSH DARN in love!

I guess I'm just kind of inured to it, now I know what he was trying to do. Like, he's a garbage person and doesn't deserve nearly as much patience as he gets, but now I know what sort of character he's supposed to be, I don't have to try and figure out why he's so terrible and what purpose he even serves. He's just an interchangeable cipher for whatever terrible shojo drama Sakura's gotten herself involved in, so instead of trying to understand and dissect the implications and nuances of how other characters interact with him, I can just mentally replace him with a blob of plot convenience and ignore how shitty he actually is.

On a side note, "we can't get married and can't have children if we were the same gender" That's still a thing somewhere?

Yes, it is still very much a thing in Japan.

Some get around it by adopting one into the family of the other so they can share the same name, or they can marry someone who's a citizen of a country that allows same-sex marriage (but not another Japanese person) and that marriage will be recognized. But that's it.

Oh, and no adoption or artificial insemination for same-sex couples, sorry.

It seems that still slips my mind every now and then. It's completely normal where I live and it's treated completely normal by everyone so I tend to apply it to other people aswell.

On a side note, "we can't get married and can't have children if we were the same gender" That's still a thing somewhere?

In most of the world. ;/
Heck, I'm from Western Europe and it's a thing in my country. We only have civil unions and step-child adoption, no outright marriage or adoption as a same-sex couple.

last edited at Feb 12, 2015 11:25PM

ok i get where botan is coming from . . . but if she were my older sister, i'd kick her passive-aggressive ass

It feels like it's throwing too much drama on the table at once. It needs to pace itself better.

As an actual person who is going through transitioning (female to male in my case) I have to say that the dilemmas that Kashiwa goes through seem all too real, I live in a third world country so that is actually stuff we have to live through. However I was eager to read this manga since the author also worked in Ebisu san and Hotei san before, this is a terrible drop in quality writing since then... I don't know what to say, the characters are almost too easy to hate and i just don't even know what I can say about the development of the story as a whole. The portrayal of Kashiwa's mixed feelings about basically everything is pretty right though, so I give the author points for that since showing how such a character feels is pretty difficult for someone who hasn't actually gone through such an experience, aside from that all the rest of the manga is just pretty terrible.

Man this family is fucked.

Reading this manga makes me feel like giving everyone in this story a punch in the face.

Here as well...

Even when I really like Kizuki Akira's manga. And i don't really hate the cast or anything. But really do want to give each of them a punch

last edited at Feb 13, 2015 3:09AM

That was quit a heavy dose of truth, with all it's ugly consequences and hurt feelings. But i think this also makes a good starting point for the characters to grow. Because now they know the problems that are floating around and that everybody kept quiet about before.

Wow, I wasn't expecting Uozumi of all people to make more sense than Sakura (for like three pages or so, but still).

That was quit a heavy dose of truth, with all it's ugly consequences and hurt feelings. But i think this also makes a good starting point for the characters to grow. Because now they know the problems that are floating around and that everybody kept quiet about before.

I agree with this. Plus, at least some of the drama is now getting resolved.

The last page of Chapter 13 is pretty nice BTW.

I want to become boy. Kashiwa should change sex with me

It feels like it's throwing too much drama on the table at once. It needs to pace itself better.

That's how life is. It always throws out all the bad things at you at once.

It feels like it's throwing too much drama on the table at once. It needs to pace itself better.

That's how life is. It always throws out all the bad things at you at once.

Life and fiction aren't the same thing, nor should they be.

It feels like it's throwing too much drama on the table at once. It needs to pace itself better.

That's how life is. It always throws out all the bad things at you at once.

Life and fiction aren't the same thing, nor should they be.

Agree there. (Let's ignore the fiction that tries to aim to be "as close to life as possible"/realistic)

So Botan kicks her sisters in the curb, including Momiji who is only 12 years old, because she doesn't like them disagreeing with her affair with some married guy? You have to be quite a fucking bitch to value your senseless flings over your family's well-being. I, for one, have kicked people out of my life for a lot less, and I hope those sisters will decide to distance themselves from Botan as much as they possibly can. It must be harsh for them to realize that their oldest sister is a piece of shit, but that's just how it is.

more like, she's just tired of life ruining her hopes and dreams.

What's with all the hate with Botan?

No doubt that she's in the wrong being in a sexual relationship with a married man, but the thing can be resolved by settling it using the adult matter. The relationship could be kept in the dark if Momiji didn't just throw all the facts to the family.

Look at what she done for the family;
When Kashiwa suddenly come back, and said she wanted to be a female. At first, she was in total confusion, but she did not deny the feeling that Kashiwa wanted to be a female. After that she went and check the cost of getting a sex change while the two little sisters are still not accepting the fact that Kashiwa wanted to be a female.
She did not change how her younger sister's attitude towards hobbies and love life.
She gave up her education and come out to the working society just to aid the family in their future education.

What about the married man and Botan?
That guy told her about his wife made him the bento. Botan even told him to not throw away the feelings his wife had (in the bento) since the family love is free and endless.
To be honest, their relationship is wrong, but who is the one to make things going to the wrong route are the adults, not the innocent child that the man have.
Never ever put an innocent child in front of this matter, no one likes it. Adult got to do what adult do.

Botan's family told her to find someone who she can marry and not find someone that she loves. She's fine being the one left out as long as the relationship is kept properly instead of the situation like this. When she was 18, she need to do what a normal 18 years old does not need to do. She need to raise this family selflessly, no matter what she want, she NEED to put the family first before anything. Yet, she not allow to have this feelings towards a man just because he's married. She's wrong having this feelings, but this is the only time she is thinking for herself. Yet the family just want to think what's just and what's wrong.

She's basically tired of this world that she need to think for the family instead of herself, that's why she left. Isn't it good? I mean, since the family don't understand how she feel, don't you think it's time to take one step back and think of the whole situation instead of throwing the whole blame towards Botan and the married man?

In summary, no one's absolutely right, no one's absolutely wrong either. The only thing to blame is that the adult world is not something that can be easily understand.

I wasn't planning on saying anything but all that hate against Botan and what some people said about Kasumi is annoying me.

What's with all the hate with Botan?

It was kind of expected, there is a lot of people who don't like cheating, so when she left the family because she could not stand it anymore of course those people would be the first to judge her and forget all those years that she sacrificed eveything for her family.

When Kashiwa suddenly come back, and said she wanted to be a female. At first, she was in total confusion, but she did not deny the feeling that Kashiwa wanted to be a female. After that she went and check the cost of getting a sex change while the two little sisters are still not accepting the fact that Kashiwa wanted to be a female.
She did not change how her younger sister's attitude towards hobbies and love life.
She gave up her education and come out to the working society just to aid the family in their future education.

You forgot that she was also saving money for Kashiwa sex change.

She's basically tired of this world that she need to think for the family instead of herself, that's why she left. Isn't it good? I mean, since the family don't understand how she feel, don't you think it's time to take one step back and think of the whole situation instead of throwing the whole blame towards Botan and the married man?

In summary, no one's absolutely right, no one's absolutely wrong either. The only thing to blame is that the adult world is not something that can be easily understand.

Like you said her family don't understand how she feel, they didn't even try, they just thought that they where doing the right thing without really knowing anything except that Botan lover hit her, the fact that they where going to talk with Botan boss in front of his house without thinking of the consequences, and the fact that Momiji was there, what kind of idiot takes a child to a situation like that? Just shows how much they where blinded by ther righteousness, thinking that they had any right to say how Botan should live her life after all she did for them, everything that happened after that is their fault.

It must be harsh for them to realize that their oldest sister is a piece of shit, but that's just how it is.

Piece of shit? Just how much more Botan need to sacrifice for her family? Sakura and Momiji are just two child who don't know anything about the world, and Kashiwa wans't even planing on coming back home, she only came back because it was necessary to save money for the surgery.
Botan accepted them, never judged them or said how they should live their lifes, if anyone in that family is a piece of shit it's her sisters.

And about Kasumi, we can assume that she is straight and before going out with Kashiwa and that she never dated a girl, you people really thought that she would not like to marry and have children? that she would not prefer that Kashiwa stayed a man? how the only good relationship could be ruined when she said that despite the fact that she would like those things she still want Kashiwa to change sex? there are people out there who would take advantage of the situation to make their partner not change sex, the fact that Kasumi still wants Kashiwa to change sex just show how much she love her.
Sure this is not one of the most realistic mangas, but the fact that there is people who didn't like what Kasumi said just shows that the fluffy and happy yuri where not bad happens and everyone accept lesbians, is corrupting your judgment about how things really work, sure there are places where gay are accepted and can have lifes like that, but it's not the case in most of the world, especially Japan.

I hope that my english was good enough so that what I wrote makes sense...

last edited at Feb 17, 2015 5:00PM

I don't think Kashiwa's girlfriend is being totally cissexist and not understanding. I got the idea that she loves Kashiwa and wants to marry her and have kids with her but realizes the difficulty of two women being together in Japan. She wouldn't be able to marry her or adopt kids with her if Kashiwa was legally female. Maybe she could stay living as a woman but keep her papers male, but it seems like she's too dysphoric.

I hope Kashiwa's girlfriend didn't just dump her . Also if ch 15 is the last chapter it is left open and makes me wonder wtf . If this is the end , it really sucks !

I hope Kashiwa's girlfriend didn't just dump her . Also if ch 15 is the last chapter it is left open and makes me wonder wtf . If this is the end , it really sucks !

Did not really get a good understanding on the dialogue they had at the resaurant, but I think they stayed together. Obviosly there were conflicting emotions, she wanted her to go through with it cuz it was something Kashiwa wanted, but not herself. ("Get rid of my hesitation", what does that mean here?... Well, don't really care enough for this to go through the chapters I skipped.)

Aaaanyways, you can see them shopping together in the time skip panels http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/kyou_kara_yonshimai_ch15#24

last edited at Feb 18, 2015 9:23PM

I hope Kashiwa's girlfriend didn't just dump her . Also if ch 15 is the last chapter it is left open and makes me wonder wtf . If this is the end , it really sucks !

It don't looks like Kasumi dumped Kashiwa and by their reactions we should assume that the call in the end was from Botan, man those vague ends really sucks...

"Get rid of my hesitation", what does that mean here?

I think that she's not sure the relationship wil work with Kashiwa being female so she is hesitant, as far as we know Kasumi is/was straight, so maybe she just wants Kashiwa to show to her that the relationship will work, maybe it's the translation that ended too much vague, or she just wants Kashiwa to teach her how to enjoy the pussy...

I remember reading somewhere, possibly here on Dynasty, that Kyou Kara Yonshimai was a drop in quality compared to Ebisu-san and Hotei-san, I had a look in the other mangas from Satou Nanki, there there are only five of his mangas translated, Ichigo no Gakkou (2007), Megane x Parfait! (2007), Usotsuki Paradox (2009), Ebisu-san to Hotei-san (2010) and Kyou Kara Yonshimai (2013), It's just my opinion but from what I read it's more likely that in Ebisu-san and Hotei-san is where the quality had gone up, and in Kyou Kara Yonshimai the quality dropped to the same of his previous works.

And about Kasumi, we can assume that she is straight and before going out with Kashiwa and that she never dated a girl, you people really thought that she would not like to marry and have children? that she would not prefer that Kashiwa stayed a man? how the only good relationship could be ruined when she said that despite the fact that she would like those things she still want Kashiwa to change sex? there are people out there who would take advantage of the situation to make their partner not change sex, the fact that Kasumi still wants Kashiwa to change sex just show how much she love her.

Sure this is not one of the most realistic mangas, but the fact that there is people who didn't like what Kasumi said just shows that the fluffy and happy yuri where not bad happens and everyone accept lesbians, is corrupting your judgment about how things really work, sure there are places where gay are accepted and can have lifes like that, but it's not the case in most of the world, especially Japan.

I hope that my english was good enough so that what I wrote makes sense...

Just wanted to say that Kasumi is the character I liked most in the whole manga. I totally understand her saying she prefers Kashima staying male or wanting to have kids and all. The thing what I had problems with were the words "If you had the surgery we'll eventually have to break up." It may sound naive but I believe if you really love someone you would stay together with that person even if he/she had a sex change. In that way I really find what Kasumi said later on to Kashima in the diner that much more satisfying.

And yes, your english was more than good enough. I was born in America and mine isn't nearly that good :x