"Want to be strong? Learn to fight alone."

It's a /u/ manga. Not an /e/ manga.

Sorry Googled Anon, but I unironicaly had to google what E anime is. Ecchi. I don't get it. What ecchi has to do with this saying?

Basically /e/ is the 4chan board for solo girls. The point I'm making is that this is a yuri tokusatsu manga that goes to show how much stronger heroes can be with the power of friendship/teamwork/lesbianism. (eg. X eventually loses she's she single and grumpy). Complaining that the yuri heroine needs help from the other yuri heroine to win the day is like complaining that none of the Power Rangers ever try to beat the monster of the week on their own.

"Want to be strong? Learn to fight alone."

It's a /u/ manga. Not an /e/ manga.

Sorry Googled Anon, but I unironicaly had to google what E anime is. Ecchi. I don't get it. What ecchi has to do with this saying?

Basically /e/ is the 4chan board for solo girls. The point I'm making is that this is a yuri tokusatsu manga that goes to show how much stronger heroes can be with the power of friendship/teamwork/lesbianism. (eg. X eventually loses she's she single and grumpy). Complaining that the yuri heroine needs help from the other yuri heroine to win the day is like complaining that none of the Power Rangers ever try to beat the monster of the week on their own.

And that's one of the reasons I hated power rangers. I also loath this "Power of friendship" crap. Is clichê and a lack of imagination. Also:

Kuroko from Murcielago... Is a lesbian surrounded by a harem of assassin girls and wins her fights almost always on her own. Vivio and Einheart from the Fateverse as well. And Vivid/VividStrike is so about friendship is sickening. Velverosa from Mage and Demon Queen? Adora from She-ra? Mapple (probably yuri) from Bofuri? Kirika from Noir? Just because she is a lesbian in an yuri/GL setting she needs to be an inept who always needs to be rescue by another lesbian? What? That makes no sense.

And what you seem tô forget is that this is also an action manga. Even if it's yuri, it's about fighting as well. Someone who always loses or, in the very few moments they win is not because of their strenght will still be viewed as weak.

last edited at Nov 19, 2020 12:16AM

Kuroko from Murcielago... Is a lesbian surrounded by a harem of assassin girls and wins her fights almost always on her own. Vivio and Einheart from the Fateverse as well. And Vivid/VividStrike is so about friendship is sickening. Velverosa from Mage and Demon Queen? Adora from She-ra? Mapple (probably yuri) from Bofuri? Kirika from Noir? Just because she is a lesbian in an yuri/GL setting she needs to be an inept who always needs to be rescue by another lesbian? What? That makes no sense.

I don't really get your point tbh.Why being a lesbian has to do with everything ? Also, like some have said before, Rabbit has just found the device and started to fight on her own, without training. Of course she will get beaten by peoples who actually know how to fight, she has just fight antinoids of low levels. That's the main point between Rabbit and your examples, most of your examples is peoples who know how to fight and were trained (and Maple which is a special case).

Kuroko from Murcielago... Is a lesbian surrounded by a harem of assassin girls and wins her fights almost always on her own. Vivio and Einheart from the Fateverse as well. And Vivid/VividStrike is so about friendship is sickening. Velverosa from Mage and Demon Queen? Adora from She-ra? Mapple (probably yuri) from Bofuri? Kirika from Noir? Just because she is a lesbian in an yuri/GL setting she needs to be an inept who always needs to be rescue by another lesbian? What? That makes no sense.

I don't really get your point tbh.Why being a lesbian has to do with everything ? Also, like some have said before, Rabbit has just found the device and started to fight on her own, without training. Of course she will get beaten by peoples who actually know how to fight, she has just fight antinoids of low levels. That's the main point between Rabbit and your examples, most of your examples is peoples who know how to fight and were trained (and Maple which is a special case).

I made that response to another guy who said that since this was an yuri manga, it's normal that the lesbian #1 needs to always relly on lesbian #2 to fight. I disagreed with that setting examples of lesbians who can fight on their own. Being lesbian has nothing to do with anything. Even in the end of my comment I wrote "Tha makes no sense". Please. Read properly.

Second: Rapid ONLY gets beat up. After so many beatings someone would thought she would be able to handle herself. She's no longer an amateur. She had enough fights to get some experience, but it's still a MASSIVE jobber.

last edited at Nov 19, 2020 5:00PM

After so many beatings someone would thought she would be able to handle herself.

That's not eaxctly how it work thought.You get better by training, not by getting beaten up every fight, plus that, meaning Hayate isn't really strong.

Second: Rapid ONLY gets beat up. After so many beatings someone would thought she would be able to handle herself. She's no longer an amateur. She had enough fights to get some experience, but it's still a MASSIVE jobber.

Way I see it, the fundamental problem here is that you're expecting her to be Batman when she's actually Kick-Ass - picking fights with Batman no less.

After so many beatings someone would thought she would be able to handle herself.

That's not eaxctly how it work thought.You get better by training, not by getting beaten up every fight, plus that, meaning Hayate isn't really strong.

Holy shit. In my comment I made very clear she would get stronger by EXPERIENCE after many FIGHTS to NO LONGER BE AN AMATEUR, but you get only one sentence and focus on it. like that? Just like how misunderstood my previous comment, you did the same with this one.

And thank you for giving a link that exactly proves my point. Hayate is weak and I don't like her because of that. That's my whole point in this discussion.

Second: Rapid ONLY gets beat up. After so many beatings someone would thought she would be able to handle herself. She's no longer an amateur. She had enough fights to get some experience, but it's still a MASSIVE jobber.

Way I see it, the fundamental problem here is that you're expecting her to be Batman when she's actually Kick-Ass - picking fights with Batman no less.

That's...... Actually a quite fitting analogy....

Holy shit. In my comment I made very clear she would get stronger by EXPERIENCE after many FIGHTS to NO LONGER BE AN AMATEUR

That will be true if she didn't fight stronger opponents each time. Just because you got beaten up by Medium level opponenents 2 or 3 times doesn't you can take on high level one all off a sudden.

Holy shit. In my comment I made very clear she would get stronger by EXPERIENCE after many FIGHTS to NO LONGER BE AN AMATEUR

That will be true if she didn't fight stronger opponents each time. Just because you got beaten up by Medium level opponenents 2 or 3 times doesn't you can take on high level one all off a sudden.

She had MANY fights over the manga. Not just 2 or 3 times and still can't beat medium and low level ones (she even had to be saved by Honey Trap fighting an antinoid). Let alone high level ones. Everyone is stronger than her in this manga, that's why I see her as the "Yamcha" of this series. There is nothing to discus about this particular subject. Someone who only loses and needs rescuing all the time is, by definition, weak. And Hayate has been like this since the very first episode and so far that hasn't changed.

There is more than 1 kind of strength. Honey is the one winning battles for her? Great! If she hadn't won Honey over, the aliens would already be ruling the Earth. That's real power.

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 7:50PM

There is more than 1 kind of strength. Honey is the one winning battles for her? If she hadn't won Honey over, the aliens would already be ruling the Earth. That's real power.

So she should just be a motivational speaker, then. She seems be better at that then fighting. If it wasn't for Honey, she would've been defeated and dead more than three times now. And yes... Rapid only wins because of Honey.

last edited at Nov 19, 2020 8:02PM

There is more than 1 kind of strength. Honey is the one winning battles for her? If she hadn't won Honey over, the aliens would already be ruling the Earth. That's real power.

So she should just be a motivational speaker, then. She seems be better at that then fighting. If it wasn't for Honey, she would've been defeated and dead more than three times now. And yes... Rapid only wins because of Honey.

You do realize that this series is chock-full of sentai references? Heroes on your daily/weekly sentai shows never go full ape-shit on people until the last five minutes of an episode. Your average 5-10 year old kid isn't going to be able to comprehend complex plotlines (or at least, studios don't think they'll be able to comprehend them), so it's a lot easier to put in villains with an interesting design each week and run the same basic fight structure all over again. Sentai makes a shit-ton of money from merchandising, so the focus is much more on equipment than it is on moves- rather than having a whole set of skills or choreographing fights with unnamed moves, these shows just feature certain devices, weapons or powers that get activated at a certain point into the fight and wipe the enemy out in one hit. The reason you have big casts is, as mentioned by posters above, to instill in kids a respect for the power of friendship and cooperation, and also to create a larger cast of merchandisable characters with their own, individual merchandisable equipment.

This isn't just sentai-exclusive either- if you've ever watched a magical girl show aimed at kids, like Precure, or even pro-wrestling (John Cena's Five moves of Doom), you'll see a very set pattern to the fights. People want to see patterns, to predict the flow of fights, to boo when the heroes get beaten down and cheer when they pop back up, to sing along with heroic themes when they blast out, to say the invocation lines they've heard a hundred times before. People don't watch sentai to be shocked or surprised- they know it's predictable, and focus more on the emotional content (which, in this case, is our leading pair of lesbians).

The point is, if you're going into this series with huge expectations of thrilling fights, you're not going to be satisfied. Sometime is pretty committed to following a sentai-based story structure and using the tropes and conventions of the medium, which is the entire appeal. Audiences in Japan (for whom the story is intended), will probably lap it up and cheer every time they see a reference to something they recognize from their childhood. You seem to want the series to be something that it isn't, and although half-a-dozen people have explained this to you in various ways, the argument's still ongoing.

Basically, this is never going to turn into some kind of shonen battle series, because it was never supposed to be one in the first place. Your problems and complaints with the way fights are portrayed will never be addressed, because for the author, they aren't issues, but selling points. What you're doing here is the equivalent of criticizing a boxing match for not featuring piledrivers, or saying that a magical girl series is shit because none of the girls come up with 500 IQ plans to ambush the monsters that they know are going to show up each week. You're missing the point, and therefore, this argument has become pointless.

As a solution, you could either understand and accept what this series is trying to do with its fights and keep reading it for the yuri, or just drop it altogether if it isn't to your liking. This isn't like some arc or plot development that'll come and go- it's a vital part of the series' identity. Otherwise, this'll just turn into another one of those Futaribeya-type threads where one person criticizes the series for being something that it doesn't want to be and never promised to be, while others strive valiantly to explain an entire genre as good or bad storytelling.

Basically /e/ is the 4chan board for solo girls. The point I'm making is that this is a yuri tokusatsu manga that goes to show how much stronger heroes can be with the power of friendship/teamwork/lesbianism. (eg. X eventually loses she's she single and grumpy). Complaining that the yuri heroine needs help from the other yuri heroine to win the day is like complaining that none of the Power Rangers ever try to beat the monster of the week on their own.

Wait does that mean once X gets herself a wife/girlfriend then she'll start winning more?

Basically /e/ is the 4chan board for solo girls. The point I'm making is that this is a yuri tokusatsu manga that goes to show how much stronger heroes can be with the power of friendship/teamwork/lesbianism. (eg. X eventually loses she's she single and grumpy). Complaining that the yuri heroine needs help from the other yuri heroine to win the day is like complaining that none of the Power Rangers ever try to beat the monster of the week on their own.

Wait does that mean once X gets herself a wife/girlfriend then she'll start winning more?

This kind of buff doesn't work with villains. Also X was in love with Honey Trap so she had to get off that before.

There is more than 1 kind of strength. Honey is the one winning battles for her? If she hadn't won Honey over, the aliens would already be ruling the Earth. That's real power.

So she should just be a motivational speaker, then. She seems be better at that then fighting. If it wasn't for Honey, she would've been defeated and dead more than three times now. And yes... Rapid only wins because of Honey.

You do realize that this series is chock-full of sentai references? Heroes on your daily/weekly sentai shows never go full ape-shit on people until the last five minutes of an episode. Your average 5-10 year old kid isn't going to be able to comprehend complex plotlines (or at least, studios don't think they'll be able to comprehend them), so it's a lot easier to put in villains with an interesting design each week and run the same basic fight structure all over again. Sentai makes a shit-ton of money from merchandising, so the focus is much more on equipment than it is on moves- rather than having a whole set of skills or choreographing fights with unnamed moves, these shows just feature certain devices, weapons or powers that get activated at a certain point into the fight and wipe the enemy out in one hit. The reason you have big casts is, as mentioned by posters above, to instill in kids a respect for the power of friendship and cooperation, and also to create a larger cast of merchandisable characters with their own, individual merchandisable equipment.

This isn't just sentai-exclusive either- if you've ever watched a magical girl show aimed at kids, like Precure, or even pro-wrestling (John Cena's Five moves of Doom), you'll see a very set pattern to the fights. People want to see patterns, to predict the flow of fights, to boo when the heroes get beaten down and cheer when they pop back up, to sing along with heroic themes when they blast out, to say the invocation lines they've heard a hundred times before. People don't watch sentai to be shocked or surprised- they know it's predictable, and focus more on the emotional content (which, in this case, is our leading pair of lesbians).

The point is, if you're going into this series with huge expectations of thrilling fights, you're not going to be satisfied. Sometime is pretty committed to following a sentai-based story structure and using the tropes and conventions of the medium, which is the entire appeal. Audiences in Japan (for whom the story is intended), will probably lap it up and cheer every time they see a reference to something they recognize from their childhood. You seem to want the series to be something that it isn't, and although half-a-dozen people have explained this to you in various ways, the argument's still ongoing.

Basically, this is never going to turn into some kind of shonen battle series, because it was never supposed to be one in the first place. Your problems and complaints with the way fights are portrayed will never be addressed, because for the author, they aren't issues, but selling points. What you're doing here is the equivalent of criticizing a boxing match for not featuring piledrivers, or saying that a magical girl series is shit because none of the girls come up with 500 IQ plans to ambush the monsters that they know are going to show up each week. You're missing the point, and therefore, this argument has become pointless.

As a solution, you could either understand and accept what this series is trying to do with its fights and keep reading it for the yuri, or just drop it altogether if it isn't to your liking. This isn't like some arc or plot development that'll come and go- it's a vital part of the series' identity. Otherwise, this'll just turn into another one of those Futaribeya-type threads where one person criticizes the series for being something that it doesn't want to be and never promised to be, while others strive valiantly to explain an entire genre as good or bad storytelling.

Holy crap. You wrote so much just to completely and utterly miss my point. I don't have a problem with the "complexity" of the fights or the lack of it. The action scenes are quite good. I have a problem with how completely inept the MC is. So what? A sentai or whatever genre must have a weak MC? That's inane. I don't have a problem with an entire genre. I never said that. I have a problem with this one and it's proagonist. I can't take her serious.

Also, this is not an inate problem of Sentais. There are several Sentai MC who are strong on their own. Vivid and Nanoha - the apex of friendship crap - is a good example of it. You also used John Cena's example (weird, but okay). He rarely loses fairly. And it's an extremely simple storyline with a "MC" who is legitimatly strong and a rather good balance between losses and wins.

You read too much into it and read it complety wrong... Bringing up a genre I have no problem with. And no work is free from criticism and I should just accept a work because it's yuri? The tag says "action", so I gonna judge it because of the action as well. People give Citrus shit because of the forced drama not because of the yuri in it. I'm not gonna focus on one aspect of a series and ignore the other. They are both part of it.

The manga is trying to send the message of friendship to little kids? Cool. But they can do that without presenting a hero so damn weak. There are examples of that.

last edited at Nov 20, 2020 2:50PM

Also, this is not an inate problem of Sentais. There are several Sentai MC who are strong on their own. Vivid and Nanoha - the apex of friendship crap - is a good example of it.

Vivid and Nanoha aren't sentai protagonists, they're magical girls. Lyrical Nanoha was also specifically made to be more action-packed and cater to adult men who liked explosions, so it's extremely atypical even for a magical girl series. You're using the exceptions to criticize the norms, while also completely and totally missing the actual genre that the norms come from.

You read too much into it and read it complety wrong... Bringing up a genre I have no problem with. And no work is free from criticism and I should just accept a work because it's yuri? The tag says "action", so I gonna judge it because of the action as well. People give Citrus shit because of the forced drama not because of the yuri in it. I'm not gonna focus on one aspect of a series and ignore the other. They are both part of it.

Again, you're free to criticize the action to the high heavens, but it's not gonna change, because there is a market for it that clearly appreciates what Sometime is doing (or the manga wouldn't get a whole second arc). As stated before, your grievances are this manga's literal USP, so if you see it fit to criticize the 'action' for not matching your expectations, you'll just end up here every time a new chapter comes out, complaining about the same tired old issue. If that's what you want to do, then knock yourself out. I expect that people who appreciate the series for what it is will simply ignore you as time goes by.

I don't even see the point of continuing that conversation, it's just going in circle.

I don't even see the point of continuing that conversation, it's just going in circle.

Yeah, it's rapidly approaching "why doesn't the supervillain just shoot the hero with a gun" territory. And this is a series where the supervillain has actually shot someone with a gun.

last edited at Nov 20, 2020 4:17PM

Vivid and Nanoha aren't sentai protagonists, they're magical girls. Lyrical Nanoha was also specifically made to be more action-packed and cater to adult men who liked explosions, so it's extremely atypical even for a magical girl series. You're using the exceptions to criticize the norms, while also completely and totally missing the actual genre that the norms come from.

Vivid and Nanoha have the exactly same troops you see here. Girls with superpowers and magic / tecnology, both have transfomations, the battles are linear, but engaging, power of friendship and love, yuri and action and easy tô understand plotline. The same demografic that watches the Nanohaverse can read this manga and not tell the difference in genre. The only diference is that the girls from Nanoha are actually strong. And my critic about weak characters I do it in every genre. Be it Sentai, shounen, fantasy, or even ocidental works. I also have a problem with Yamcha and some of the characters in Naruto. I have no problem with the "norm" of the genre ir whatever. This has nothing to do with genre. I have the problem against weak main and secondary characters. I've said this só many times. How is that so hard o understand? It's not that complicated.

Again, you're free to criticize the action to the high heavens, but it's not gonna change, because there is a market for it that clearly appreciates what Sometime is doing (or the manga wouldn't get a whole second arc). As stated before, your grievances are this manga's literal USP, so if you see it fit to criticize the 'action' for not matching your expectations, you'll just end up here every time a new chapter comes out, complaining about the same tired old issue. If that's what you want to do, then knock yourself out. I expect that people who appreciate the series for what it is will simply ignore you as time goes by.

Nobody.posts a comment expecting to change anything in a series. Are you for real? A comment section is to 1) Express an opinion and 2) Debating. That's what's happening here. Anyone who posts a comment expecting this will somehow change the story of a creator all the other way of the globe is delusional. I am doing this to express what I think and counterargument ideas about this subject I disagree with. If the creator wants to keep Hayate as a punching bag, be my guest. I don't have to like it. And people who appreciate this are free.to debate with me or anyone else If they feel like It or ignore it. It's their choice no matter what you expect from them.

last edited at Nov 20, 2020 5:29PM

I don't even see the point of continuing that conversation, it's just going in circle.

Yeah, it's rapidly approaching "why doesn't the supervillain just shoot the hero with a gun" territory. And this is a series where the supervillain has actually shot someone with a gun.

I just expect, this time, Hayate dodges the bullet and wins the fight.

I just expect, this time, Hayate dodges the bullet and wins the fight.

While complaining about how the apple isn't an orange is doubtless a gift that keeps on giving I daresay most will find the topic quite stale.

Fruitless, even.

I don't even see the point of continuing that conversation, it's just going in circle.

Yeah, it's rapidly approaching "why doesn't the supervillain just shoot the hero with a gun" territory. And this is a series where the supervillain has actually shot someone with a gun.

Because then she couldn't get herself a cute wife (Hayate).

There is more than 1 kind of strength. Honey is the one winning battles for her? If she hadn't won Honey over, the aliens would already be ruling the Earth. That's real power.

So she should just be a motivational speaker, then. She seems be better at that then fighting. If it wasn't for Honey, she would've been defeated and dead more than three times now. And yes... Rapid only wins because of Honey.

You do realize that this series is chock-full of sentai references? Heroes on your daily/weekly sentai shows never go full ape-shit on people until the last five minutes of an episode. Your average 5-10 year old kid isn't going to be able to comprehend complex plotlines (or at least, studios don't think they'll be able to comprehend them), so it's a lot easier to put in villains with an interesting design each week and run the same basic fight structure all over again. Sentai makes a shit-ton of money from merchandising, so the focus is much more on equipment than it is on moves- rather than having a whole set of skills or choreographing fights with unnamed moves, these shows just feature certain devices, weapons or powers that get activated at a certain point into the fight and wipe the enemy out in one hit. The reason you have big casts is, as mentioned by posters above, to instill in kids a respect for the power of friendship and cooperation, and also to create a larger cast of merchandisable characters with their own, individual merchandisable equipment.

This isn't just sentai-exclusive either- if you've ever watched a magical girl show aimed at kids, like Precure, or even pro-wrestling (John Cena's Five moves of Doom), you'll see a very set pattern to the fights. People want to see patterns, to predict the flow of fights, to boo when the heroes get beaten down and cheer when they pop back up, to sing along with heroic themes when they blast out, to say the invocation lines they've heard a hundred times before. People don't watch sentai to be shocked or surprised- they know it's predictable, and focus more on the emotional content (which, in this case, is our leading pair of lesbians).

The point is, if you're going into this series with huge expectations of thrilling fights, you're not going to be satisfied. Sometime is pretty committed to following a sentai-based story structure and using the tropes and conventions of the medium, which is the entire appeal. Audiences in Japan (for whom the story is intended), will probably lap it up and cheer every time they see a reference to something they recognize from their childhood. You seem to want the series to be something that it isn't, and although half-a-dozen people have explained this to you in various ways, the argument's still ongoing.

Basically, this is never going to turn into some kind of shonen battle series, because it was never supposed to be one in the first place. Your problems and complaints with the way fights are portrayed will never be addressed, because for the author, they aren't issues, but selling points. What you're doing here is the equivalent of criticizing a boxing match for not featuring piledrivers, or saying that a magical girl series is shit because none of the girls come up with 500 IQ plans to ambush the monsters that they know are going to show up each week. You're missing the point, and therefore, this argument has become pointless.

As a solution, you could either understand and accept what this series is trying to do with its fights and keep reading it for the yuri, or just drop it altogether if it isn't to your liking. This isn't like some arc or plot development that'll come and go- it's a vital part of the series' identity. Otherwise, this'll just turn into another one of those Futaribeya-type threads where one person criticizes the series for being something that it doesn't want to be and never promised to be, while others strive valiantly to explain an entire genre as good or bad storytelling.

Holy crap. You wrote so much just to completely and utterly miss my point. I don't have a problem with the "complexity" of the fights or the lack of it. The action scenes are quite good. I have a problem with how completely inept the MC is. So what? A sentai or whatever genre must have a weak MC? That's inane. I don't have a problem with an entire genre. I never said that. I have a problem with this one and it's proagonist. I can't take her serious.

Also, this is not an inate problem of Sentais. There are several Sentai MC who are strong on their own. Vivid and Nanoha - the apex of friendship crap - is a good example of it. You also used John Cena's example (weird, but okay). He rarely loses fairly. And it's an extremely simple storyline with a "MC" who is legitimatly strong and a rather good balance between losses and wins.

You read too much into it and read it complety wrong... Bringing up a genre I have no problem with. And no work is free from criticism and I should just accept a work because it's yuri? The tag says "action", so I gonna judge it because of the action as well. People give Citrus shit because of the forced drama not because of the yuri in it. I'm not gonna focus on one aspect of a series and ignore the other. They are both part of it.

The manga is trying to send the message of friendship to little kids? Cool. But they can do that without presenting a hero so damn weak. There are examples of that.

You sure do like to complain a lot for no reason, huh? If you dont like a series, theres a simple fix. Dont read it.

For the love of Mara why can't y'all stop complaining? You don't like it, you don't read it, end of story. Bothering people on the comment section isn't gonna change anything, especially when no one wants to hear what you're saying