I love that Kuro is so chaotic and unpredictable that any of these could be her actual motivation. She is clearly super fucked up though, so perhaps she's trying to do all of the above heh.

Another reason could be Kuro wanted Mochida to hear so she'll know she isn't interested in the math teacher at all and Mochida will confirm her woman loving interests and maybe that'll get all the other girls to stop bothering about their heterosexual love lives.

Right now, she's the most complicated person in the manga for me since I feel like I don't know enough about her to really determine her actions. She's drawn with the that look on her face but then she's all smiles and cuddly with Aya and the author hasn't depicted that face during those moments so I can't help but feel like maybe she isn't that bad?

As for the Mochida's reasoning thing, I apologize for how unclear I was. I was actually asking why Mochida told Haruki about Aya and Kuro's relationship. She obviously wants Aya to stay with Kuro so she can hook up with the math teacher, but I'm struggling to understand why she thought that telling Haruki about their relationship would actually help her. I mean, it did, but I doubt that was her intention... or perhaps it was. Did she think that Haruki would support Aya's relationship with a creepy-ass teacher... I think any reasonable person would think that Haruki would instead want to stop that. I'm probably just overthinking this though; she was probably just seeing if Haruki thought Aya would stick with Kuro or just confiding in Haruki or something along those lines. It seems that everyone's scheming to some extent though, so I wouldn't be surprised if Mochida is too.

I maintain that her reasoning is simple one though I failed to elaborate. Mochida probably wants to gossip about her love life and the juicy thing she learned at school. Her school seems full of stuck up girls so maybe she doesn't have that many friends there so she hasn't been able to share this interesting tidbit she's learned?

But if she's a master manipulator then the other reason could be that she's hoping Haruki will spread the gossip about Aya and Kuro and somehow reach their school. Or maybe she's fishing for information about what Haruki knows about Kuro and Aya so she can blab back to her own school that Kuro and Aya are indeed in a relationship (she only heard Kuro propositioning Aya so she doesn't know if Aya agreed or not?). In either of those scenarios, Kuro gets fired/is forced to quit so she can have math teacher all to herself. Though I doubt she's that masterful since she's having trouble getting the attention of one guy.

I'm curious how you think sharing helped her so far? Since it benefits her more if Aya and Kuro continue their relationship?

I think it’s the basic story principle that “any stipulated originary trauma is always sufficient explanation” (even if to any sensible person it seems not at all sufficient, or even trivial).

It's tied to her heart break for sure, but I'm wondering if something more happened between her and Yoru? Was it just confessions that were outright rejected? Or did Yoru do anything to encourage the belief that maybe she and Kuro had a chance? I know she said she'll eventually find a guy, but if she allowed both the emotional and physical boundaries to dissolve between her and Kuro, then that might explain why Kuro's so hung up and became twisted.

Like in the series Liberty, where the MC has become a bizarre twisto sadist because of a breakup with a “lesbian until graduation” high school girlfriend, which any number of other yuri protagonists have dealt with by being sad for a while and then getting on with their lives (maybe with a later “you suck” confrontation at the cultural festival for closure).

I understand that it could be formulaic and simple but there's also a chance that there's a lot more that happened, which could help make Kuro's character more interesting and relatable.

It could be something worse, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it isn’t.

Same. But l think since we're only 9 chapters in, there's a chance we're going to get deeper development and delve deeper into the backstory of Kuro. Maybe it's just my writer brain kicking in, always furthering character development more than necessary or desired.

im waiting for Haruki and Mochida too

that teacher is so fuckin psycho dude

Perhaps there's something missing about a tag to put on, the yandere one?

I don't know if this was asked before, but what exactly is Sei's goal in letting Mochida know she's gay and having a relationship with a high schooler? I don't really see how that helps her in any way, unless she somehow knew she would tell Haruki all about her relationship with Aya.

I think it’s more or less in line with what we’ve seen of Sei up to this point. She stays seething in the closet in order to keep her livelihood intact, then engages in the most toxic sorts of relief to destress.

In this case, when Mochida tries to hold her sexuality over her head, Sei realizes that she essentially holds all of the power in that moment - they’re alone, Mochida is seen as a goof-off, and there’s a degree of sexual threat too - and decides to engage in some pretty juvenile one-upping. She’s basically flexing a “yeah, I am; who the fuck are you even going to tell?” It’s very in the vein of traditional abuser tactics, like a lot if Sei’s behavior.

As for the Mochida's reasoning thing, I apologize for how unclear I was. I was actually asking why Mochida told Haruki about Aya and Kuro's relationship. She obviously wants Aya to stay with Kuro so she can hook up with the math teacher, but I'm struggling to understand why she thought that telling Haruki about their relationship would actually help her.

From how she’s been presented my take is just that it was typical teen goss combined with a bit of wanting to badmouth the woman her crush is crushing on to clear her nerves. I don’t really see Mochida being quite so manipulative; if she sabotages Sei it’ll likely be a decision she makes in the moment.

last edited at Apr 23, 2020 4:46PM

I'm currently on chapter 8, and I still need hours.to catch up with the latest chapter, so I'll just post my opinion now.

This is like MUL in the polygon unrequired love aspect but gross instead of depressing.
Mochida->Math Teacher->Kuro->Yuro
Haruki->Aya->Kuro

Also rule of Yuri pairing: You need one brunette and one blonde. Aya is brunette, Haruki is also a brunette, so this sets who the main ""love interest"" is supposed to be here.

Kuro is twisted. This manga shows extensively the stages of getting manipulated and falling into the pits of abuse. Aya is still underage and the teacher is literally a predator who takes advantage of her sexuality and slowly breaks her. Aya wants to erase her personality to be like Yuro. She is still very inexperienced with love and you know, first loves can be very intense even if they end up not meaning much. So her own feelings control her, and she is unable to stop it.
The teacher knows well what she's doing (like sending the nude pic of Aya to Haruki).I also suspect she might be calling Aya as Yuro on purpose. If they were the same age I'd say Aya is at fault too, but now there's this clear power dynamic.
Although I have to say I don't like Aya's character either.

The only character I like is Haruki (hope author doesn't mess her up), but at the same time I think she deserves better than Aya. So I don't ship them either.
Although in stories like this I wish for once we could get the love interest option who is not supposed to end up with the mc. This story could set a good example on how to move on and that intense love is not always the ultimate form of love, or healthy isn't boring because it may appear less intense.
I don't like how stories romanticize sick and abusive relationships, then the two mains end up together anyway, giving a false message that this is something normal or to be looked up to. I also think Kuro and Aya will end up together here anyway. Probably showing how Kuro just stopped being twisted after meeting the right girl, Aya, and getting cured. Becoming the best version possible for her, something like Shizuru from Mai Hime.

Why people end up thinking that stories are "how to live" guides... Or that there's only one way to make a story, the virtuos one and things need to be black or white.

You know what, I will just drop this entire thread, I rather discuss in mangadex or literally any other website about this manga....like I said, its the same over and over and over again.

I think it’s more or less in line with what we’ve seen of Sei up to this point. She stays seething in the closet in order to keep her livelihood intact, then engages in the most toxic sorts of relief to destress.

Her methods are corrupt and what she's doing with these three underage girls is certainly deplorable but I can't really say that using sex to vent out your frustrations is toxic. It is unhealthy that she's using Aya as a replacement for Yoru but what makes it despicable is that Aya was a 15 year old innocent virgin. But for Mochida and Haruki, that whole confrontation with Haruki makes me think she could just be convincing herself of her betterment. Now, she is the one who's being chased by people other people want...

Yet I can't help but feel she's not doing this for amusement. It's almost like she's doing it out of anger. Their situations are not unlike her own. She probably went through the same with Yoru and perhaps there's a part of her that hates her self because she thinks she's equally, if not more so, as pathetic as they are.

Also, I don't think she was lying about wanting someone (Though I'm Lysol percent sure she's talking about females only so sorry Math Teacher) to love her. At the moment she just prefers it be Yoru.

In this case, when Mochida tries to hold her sexuality over her head, Sei realizes that she essentially holds all of the power in that moment - they’re alone, Mochida is seen as a goof-off, and there’s a degree of sexual threat too - and decides to engage in some pretty juvenile one-upping. She’s basically flexing a “yeah, I am; who the fuck are you even going to tell?” It’s very in the vein of traditional abuser tactics, like a lot if Sei’s behavior.

But the fact that Mochida, someone who might be on the bottom of the social pyramid, has even heard about the rumor of her girl loving tendencies is a testament that the rumor has a strong following. Meaning there's a high chance Mochida will be believed by her superficial school mates. Also when Aya ends up actually visiting Sei's school there were students around. True they were alone in the room with only Mochida hearing but a lot of people could have seen her bring Aya into the faculty room so at this point it wouldn't take much to convince others about Sei's sapphic inclinations. Unless of course Mochida has a history of crying wolf. And seeing how easily Kuro recognizes Aya's uniform there would be no reason for her to believe that it would be impossible for Mochida to investigate and share details confirming Aya's existence and their connection.

Besides, Sei doesn't really seem like she's seen as an authority figure at school. How many high school students tease their teachers about dressing like old ladies or even discuss their sex/romantic life with them?

But in terms of juvenile one uppery, I can see Sei doing this just to flaunt the fact that Math Teacher wants her but she will never want him, effectively taunting Mochida about how she has to exert effort to capture his attention while all Sei has to do is stand in the same room for him to come panting after her.

From how she’s been presented my take is just that it was typical teen goss combined with a bit of wanting to badmouth the woman her crush is crushing on to clear her nerves. I don’t really see Mochida being quite so manipulative; if she sabotages Sei it’ll likely be a decision she makes in the moment.

Second on that wanting to talk smack about Sei with someone.

How did that rumor about Sei even start? Was she caught by one of her students on a date or did she date one of her students? Because if it's the latter, then she's probably not afraid of unemployment.

I know she said she didn't choose to work there but she's been there a while so if she's that miserable, surely she can ask for a transfer or look for a job somewhere else? It makes me think that she's not just hiding for fear of becoming unemployed, it's more like she wants to stay at that all girl school so she can keep checking out their goods. Almost like she's punishing herself or she just doesn't want to move on. She said her self that Yoru was a flashy girl, as was proven with the latest chapter, not unlike most of the girls at her school.

Though I admit, I may be reading into things too much but it seems too early in the game to assume simplicity with the characters and plot. I think there will be more flashbacks that'll further explore Sei's character and ultimately reveal how she transformed from such an eager and pure girl into a broken depraved manipulative being.

Why people end up thinking that stories are "how to live" guides... Or that there's only one way to make a story, the virtuos one and things need to be black or white.

The gray area is too broad for most people to understand. It’s easier and people love easy. They bask in simplicity. Also, we are conditioned to think there’s only two sides and there’s no way to justify ‘wrong’ acts.

You know what, I will just drop this entire thread, I rather discuss in mangadex or literally any other website about this manga....like I said, its the same over and over and over again.

Haven’t been on mangadex so I wouldn’t know what’s being discussed there. Is it virtually the same things?

last edited at Apr 23, 2020 9:09PM

Haven’t been on mangadex so I wouldn’t know what’s being discussed there. Is it virtually the same things?

More or less for what i've seen. There is even some same comments both here and Mangadex

Why people end up thinking that stories are "how to live" guides... Or that there's only one way to make a story, the virtuos one and things need to be black or white.

Some do, and some of us don't.

I know, I know, the "this character is bad and that one is worse" approach to literary criticism (since that's what we're all doing, call it that or not) seems like an astoundingly reductive straitjacket to jam every story into.

But if you have something to say about the story, I for one would like to hear it.

More or less for what i've seen. There is even some same comments both here and Mangadex

It’s expected that there’ll be similar topics being brought up again and again, even by the same people. If the repetitiveness is annoying to some people then perhaps it’s best to just stick to one forum. Otherwise, be prepared for repetition.

Just because you read it twice doesn’t mean the same for everyone else.

More or less for what i've seen. There is even some same comments both here and Mangadex

It’s expected that there’ll be similar topics being brought up again and again, even by the same people. If the repetitiveness is annoying to some people then perhaps it’s best to just stick to one forum. Otherwise, be prepared for repetition.

Just because you read it twice doesn’t mean the same for everyone else.

Ah no i mean literally, the same comment was posted by Faust, both on Mangadex and Dynasty. I don't complain, i just pointed it out. I also often post similar comments between Mangadex and Dynasty

last edited at Apr 23, 2020 9:37PM

Ah no i mean literally, the same comment was posted by Faust, both on Mangadex and Dynasty. I don't complain, i just pointed it out. I also often post similar comments between Mangadex and Dynasty

Oh I didn’t think you were complaining. I get it. People post the same thing twice because they know that there are some who visit only one site and not both so they’d like everyone to read what they have to say and get feedback from all kinds of people.

last edited at Apr 23, 2020 10:05PM

Another reason could be Kuro wanted Mochida to hear so she'll know she isn't interested in the math teacher at all and Mochida will confirm her woman loving interests and maybe that'll get all the other girls to stop bothering about their heterosexual love lives.

Right now, she's the most complicated person in the manga for me since I feel like I don't know enough about her to really determine her actions. She's drawn with the that look on her face but then she's all smiles and cuddly with Aya and the author hasn't depicted that face during those moments so I can't help but feel like maybe she isn't that bad?

That reason is definitely another valid one. I don't know though, I feel like she definitely is that bad heh. It seems to me that all her smiles and cuddly stuff are just more ways to manipulate Aya. Perhaps she's genuinely happy in some cases though like when Aya came over in the most recent chapter... or when she fucked with Haruki. I sure hope that she does legitimately fall for Aya at some point though.

I maintain that her reasoning is simple one though I failed to elaborate. Mochida probably wants to gossip about her love life and the juicy thing she learned at school. Her school seems full of stuck up girls so maybe she doesn't have that many friends there so she hasn't been able to share this interesting tidbit she's learned?

But if she's a master manipulator then the other reason could be that she's hoping Haruki will spread the gossip about Aya and Kuro and somehow reach their school. Or maybe she's fishing for information about what Haruki knows about Kuro and Aya so she can blab back to her own school that Kuro and Aya are indeed in a relationship (she only heard Kuro propositioning Aya so she doesn't know if Aya agreed or not?). In either of those scenarios, Kuro gets fired/is forced to quit so she can have math teacher all to herself. Though I doubt she's that masterful since she's having trouble getting the attention of one guy.

I'm curious how you think sharing helped her so far? Since it benefits her more if Aya and Kuro continue their relationship?

From how she’s been presented my take is just that it was typical teen goss combined with a bit of wanting to badmouth the woman her crush is crushing on to clear her nerves. I don’t really see Mochida being quite so manipulative; if she sabotages Sei it’ll likely be a decision she makes in the moment.

She really should just tell everyone about Kuro and get her fired... it seems that she's not really a bad person (or as bad as everyone else anyway), so perhaps she doesn't want to go quite that far. It seems that sharing this teen goss with Haruki hasn't really helped her yet, at least in a way that she could have predicted. I was thinking she was hoping that Haruki would support Aya and ensure that she stays in the relationship for longer, but it seems that is not the case. Mochida definitely doesn't seem manipulative based on what we've seen so far, but she's definitely been smiling evilly a lot, so I thought she was up to something.

I think it’s more or less in line with what we’ve seen of Sei up to this point. She stays seething in the closet in order to keep her livelihood intact, then engages in the most toxic sorts of relief to destress.

In this case, when Mochida tries to hold her sexuality over her head, Sei realizes that she essentially holds all of the power in that moment - they’re alone, Mochida is seen as a goof-off, and there’s a degree of sexual threat too - and decides to engage in some pretty juvenile one-upping. She’s basically flexing a “yeah, I am; who the fuck are you even going to tell?” It’s very in the vein of traditional abuser tactics, like a lot if Sei’s behavior.

So, she was just trying to fuck with Mochida, huh... that's certainly also a valid Kuro move given what she just did to Haruki. Her penchant for just fucking everyone over is so hilarious to me, honestly.

How did that rumor about Sei even start? Was she caught by one of her students on a date or did she date one of her students? Because if it's the latter, then she's probably not afraid of unemployment.

It seems like it's all just baseless rumors at this point since I recall the girls were saying in one of the earlier chapters that they thought Kuro was looking at them in a pervy way or whatever. It would be interesting if she did date someone before though I haven't really seen any indications of that yet.

On a side note, I thought that woman at the end of Chapter 5.5 was Aya until the end and I was like "Wait, since when was Aya a mangaka? And why is she named FLOWERCHILD now?" It was only at the end that I realized it was the real-life backstory for Warikitta (what shall we abbreviate this to, I wonder? WariKan? I don't quite know how these anime abbreviations work, but that seem similar to stuff like YagaKimi and whatever anyway).

Why people end up thinking that stories are "how to live" guides... Or that there's only one way to make a story, the virtuos one and things need to be black or white.

Some do, and some of us don't.

I know, I know, the "this character is bad and that one is worse" approach to literary criticism (since that's what we're all doing, call it that or not) seems like an astoundingly reductive straitjacket to jam every story into.

But if you have something to say about the story, I for one would like to hear it.

Too bad that i don't believe Serenata will come back to the thread. You can see in the spanish thread that they seem dissapointed that the english readers don't seem to see the manga like them. I don't know why they don't even try to explain. Althought i believe it's because are not nice with Sei or Aya and worse, some even defend Haruki.I don't hold any grudge on my fellows hispanophons yuri comrads but they seem to have a problem with how peoples comments this one.

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 7:21AM

That reason is definitely another valid one. I don't know though, I feel like she definitely is that bad heh. It seems to me that all her smiles and cuddly stuff are just more ways to manipulate Aya. Perhaps she's genuinely happy in some cases though like when Aya came over in the most recent chapter... or when she fucked with Haruki. I sure hope that she does legitimately fall for Aya at some point though.

I’m definitely not claiming she’s a saint but she seems more like she got screwed over so she’s lashing out. And the fact that we are getting flashbacks about her life with Yoru leads me to believe it wasn’t just confessions that were rejected. Yoru seems like the type to do things to keep Sei on her hook.

Haruki herself isn’t an innocent victim. She stuck her nose in the cookie jar and got caught up in a mouse trap. She invaded Aya’s privacy, just like Sei did when she sent that soft core, I say that because Aya wasn’t really showing her shit she had a sheet across her boobs, picture to Haruki who isn’t acting out of concern but self preservation. She has said she doesn’t want Aya to change and wants Aya to stay just where only she can reach her.

I know Sei is using Aya and yes she manipulated Aya to a certain degree but it’s ultimately diminishing Aya’s own choices.

Aya chose to go on a dating app, even lied about her age just so people would feel comfortable with approaching her, and also knew that Sei wasn’t wrong to ultimately reject her if she said no. Let’s not forget, she seemed to be expecting to match up with a guy so I’m fairly certain she knew there would be some Sexual advances thrown her way. Perhaps not consciously but Aya has proven she’s not stupid or entirely naive. There’s no way Sei could have manipulated her into observing Sei at her school.

The author has set it up to show that Aya is craving to break out of her monotonous lonely world. She knows Sei is using her but she feels she’s getting something out of being Sei’s replacement while for Sei, she has some one there for her. She even got Aya her own set of table ware which lead me to think Sei doesn’t have a habit of just picking up random women on line to bang at her place though I could be wrong.... They’re having more interactions that have less to do with sex and more for comfort and security, which is what both need.

Sei’s surroundings at school aren’t great. The students are kind of assholes and she has that teacher after her... it’s not all rainbows and unicorns for her so I think there’s a reason the author has taken the time to depict how miserable Sei’s own life is.

Anyway I don’t think she’s completely irredeemable at this point in the story.

She really should just tell everyone about Kuro and get her fired... it seems that she's not really a bad person (or as bad as everyone else anyway), so perhaps she doesn't want to go quite that far. It seems that sharing this teen goss with Haruki hasn't really helped her yet, at least in a way that she could have predicted. I was thinking she was hoping that Haruki would support Aya and ensure that she stays in the relationship for longer, but it seems that is not the case. Mochida definitely doesn't seem manipulative based on what we've seen so far, but she's definitely been smiling evilly a lot, so I thought she was up to something.

She doesn’t seem to have those kinds of designs yet. She’s not a bad person. Just totally immature. Though I think firing will be her ultimate goal which if you ask me is fucked up because she’s not doing it to protect her fellow students she’s going to do it just to get Sei away from Math Teacher.

It seems like it's all just baseless rumors at this point since I recall the girls were saying in one of the earlier chapters that they thought Kuro was looking at them in a pervy way or whatever. It would be interesting if she did date someone before though I haven't really seen any indications of that yet.

It seems like the girl with the lollipop was the one who instigated that whole conversation. She was the one that suggested Sei wanted them and then followed up with saying that she heard the rumor, which means she had prior knowledge about Sapphic Sei and that’s probably what led her to believe that Sei was perving on them.

On a side note, I thought that woman at the end of Chapter 5.5 was Aya until the end and I was like "Wait, since when was Aya a mangaka? And why is she named FLOWERCHILD now?" It was only at the end that I realized it was the real-life backstory for Warikitta (what shall we abbreviate this to, I wonder? WariKan? I don't quite know how these anime abbreviations work, but that seem similar to stuff like YagaKimi and whatever anyway).

WariKan sounds good.

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 12:35AM

Too bad that i don't believe Serenata will come back to the thread. You can see in the spanish thread that they seem offensed that the english readers don't seem to see the manga like them. I don't know why they don't even try to explain. Althought i believe it's because are not nice with Sei or Aya and worse, some even defend Haruki.I don't hold any grudge on my fellows hispanophons yuri comrads but they seem to have a problem with how peoples comments this one.

That’s sad since we seem to have a common mind set about the story and characters. There are a lot of people defending/siding with Haruki and I get why it’s frustrating and even disappointing when you find out you’re in the minority, that what seems super clear and concise since it’s spelled out on the pages are still impossible to be understood by who you felt were your peers.

Too bad that i don't believe Serenata will come back to the thread. You can see in the spanish thread that they seem offensed that the english readers don't seem to see the manga like them. I don't know why they don't even try to explain. Althought i believe it's because are not nice with Sei or Aya and worse, some even defend Haruki.I don't hold any grudge on my fellows hispanophons yuri comrads but they seem to have a problem with how peoples comments this one.

That’s sad since we seem to have a common mind set about the story and characters. There are a lot of people defending/siding with Haruki and I get why it’s frustrating and even disappointing when you find out you’re in the minority, that what seems super clear and concise since it’s spelled out on the pages are still impossible to be understood by who you felt were your peers.

Speaking only for myself, I’ve been surprised to find that so many readers don’t seem to care very much about stories as stories, (i.e., the creation of narrative works of art) and basically see stories as more-or-less transparent containers for imaginary people, whose actions readers then get to pass moral judgments on.

Hence all the discussion of which characters are “bad people,” or which one’s motivations justify their actions, or who is a criminal, etc.

Such judgments are part of any reading of characters, of course. But what that’s all that there is, (especially for stories like this one, where there’s no right-acting moral center character, and where all the characters are deeply flawed and make unwise decisions), forum discussions often become a moralizing merry-go-round, with readers choosing up sides “for” or “against” certain characters. And that often ends up not having much to do with the story that’s actually being told by the author.

Everyone reads stories differently. Some people completely detach the story from reality, others read it with real life on mind.
I don't see how the later should be frowned upon more. A lot of stories are trying to pass a morale in the end too. Some readers can even take example for their real life situations from stories. If you are not one of them, good. But that doesn't mean everyone shouldn't read it in the realistic way either.

In the wdtfs fandom, the love antagonist Seju was often criticized for her character. I liked her but I didn't get offended if someone else didn't. Everyone has the right to read a story differently. If you disagree, it's more productive to point out the reasons and arguments why rather than complaining about the ones who disagree.
And personally I'm just tired of having to excuse some characters' actions and certain situations because it's a fictional story.
Fifty shades was a shit story with a creepy love interest and people got to point that out. Why should it be different for mangas?

Speaking only for myself, I’ve been surprised to find that so many readers don’t seem to care very much about stories as stories, (i.e., the creation of narrative works of art) and basically see stories as more-or-less transparent containers for imaginary people, whose actions readers then get to pass moral judgments on.

You must never have seen any type of movie where there are the bad guys and you root for the good ones to win? Is it weird and offensive to judge the morale of the villains?

last edited at Apr 24, 2020 3:46PM

Speaking only for myself, I’ve been surprised to find that so many readers don’t seem to care very much about stories as stories, (i.e., the creation of narrative works of art) and basically see stories as more-or-less transparent containers for imaginary people, whose actions readers then get to pass moral judgments on.

You must never have seen any type of movie where there are the bad guys and you root for the good ones to win? Is it weird and offensive to judge the morale of the villains?

This bizarre response is a prime example of the kind of projection that habitually plagues the "this character is a bad person"-centric discussions and turns them into personalized "more moralistic than thou" pissing contests.

The terms "weird" and "offensive" are imported into this conversation by you and have nothing to do with what I was talking about. At most, I implied that the single-minded focus on "correct behavior by imaginary persons" to the exclusion of everything else is reductive and often ends up with the discussion far removed from the story that's actually being told.

Speaking only for myself, I’ve been surprised to find that so many readers don’t seem to care very much about stories as stories, (i.e., the creation of narrative works of art) and basically see stories as more-or-less transparent containers for imaginary people, whose actions readers then get to pass moral judgments on.

Hence all the discussion of which characters are “bad people,” or which one’s motivations justify their actions, or who is a criminal, etc.

Such judgments are part of any reading of characters, of course. But what that’s all that there is, (especially for stories like this one, where there’s no right-acting moral center character, and where all the characters are deeply flawed and make unwise decisions), forum discussions often become a moralizing merry-go-round, with readers choosing up sides “for” or “against” certain characters. And that often ends up not having much to do with the story that’s actually being told by the author.

Personally, I think people tend to dissect depending on genre. For comedies I don't really see much comments on character's motivations and things but it seems different when it concerns drama and romance. Mostly I think these types of stories mean to offer more than entertainment and escape. The more serious subjects tend resonate stronger emotions with people, leading to all these discussions about morality and whatnot.

I like to understand characters, their motivations and pain and experiences, because they are the ones who can ultimately make a story different enough to stand out.

Also, what more can we expect from the internet? It's basically where people can enjoy the freedom of speaking out without any serious repercussions.

Everyone reads stories differently. Some people completely detach the story from reality, others read it with real life on mind.
I don't see how the later should be frowned upon more. A lot of stories are trying to pass a morale in the end too. Some readers can even take example for their real life situations from stories. If you are not one of them, good. But that doesn't mean everyone shouldn't read it in the realistic way either.

In the wdtfs fandom, the love antagonist Seju was often criticized for her character. I liked her but I didn't get offended if someone else didn't. Everyone has the right to read a story differently. If you disagree, it's more productive to point out the reasons and arguments why rather than complaining about the ones who disagree.
And personally I'm just tired of having to excuse some characters' actions and certain situations because it's a fictional story.
Fifty shades was a shit story with a creepy love interest and people got to point that out. Why should it be different for mangas?

I get sucked into the discussions because I genuinely would like to have a rational conversation about the story and characters. Then when I read, some times I wonder whether or not I missed something in the story. It is a bit frustrating because it feels like people just blatantly ignore major key points, dialogue, actions, etc. because they want so badly for their character to have the morale high ground so they can remain 'the best' in their eyes. I understand that type of bias exists but it still irritates me from time to time, probably because we already deal with that stuff IRL outside of these forum pages.

Personally, I think people tend to dissect depending on genre. For comedies I don't really see much comments on character's motivations and things but it seems different when it concerns drama and romance.

I would refer you to the Hana ni Arashi folder, where discussions of “who’s right/who’s wrong/who should apologize” can take up page after page in reference to one of the airiest (and most delightful) fluffballs going.

But you’re right that it’s when drama timidly rears its head that such eruptions tend to happen.

With this angst-fest, well, . . .