My only question is this... when are they gonna make out?

Possibly never. If the series continues at this pace I bet it’s gonna get cancelled before they makeout again.

Citrus Chp#1 to this
How far have we come?

I feel like the people saying that Mei has regressed have, at the very least, misunderstood her character. She was never a "sexual predator", she was simply mimicking what she had seen (and done to her), "monkey see, monkey do" if you will. From the start, it was stated that she never enacted on her desires, always only focusing on being the obedient girl she assumed it was what it was expected from her.

Now thanks to Yuzu and everything they went through, she's finally enacting those desires, but she has absolutely zero ideas of what she's supposed to do, so her idea of taking things one step at the time is because she's learning on the fly alongside Yuzu. If anything, both of them are showing a maturity they lacked in Citrus, with Yuzu learning to be less impulsive and reigning in her overwhelming love for Mei, while Mei is slowly embracing and growing comfortable with showing her affection, while juggling her responsibilities as future chairwoman of Aihara Academy.

Yes, Sabu could have them making out and fucking like rabbits but that would be completely out of character.

I feel like the people saying that Mei has regressed have, at the very least, misunderstood her character. She was never a "sexual predator", she was simply mimicking what she had seen (and done to her), "monkey see, monkey do" if you will.

This is ridiculous--it's not about Mei being a "sexual predator," it's about her having once been an exceptionally mature and publicly confident person, someone who was not afraid to speak her mind or to confront others.

My complaints are not primarily about Mei's sexual persona but about her behavior as a person in general. Whatever her changing attitudes toward physical intimacy, the nervous, inarticulate Mei of Citrus+ is currently a pathetic shadow of the fiercely independent person who Yuzu originally fell in love with. (Her performances in front of the student body and the school board seem like mere callbacks to the character she originally was.)

Waaaaay back in Chapter 24 of the main series she and Yuzu were positioned to move forward as a couple, with Mei as the more grown-up but emotionally repressed one and Yuzu as the impulsive, emotionally candid one.

But since that point Sabu never really figured out how to portray them as two separate individuals who are fundamentally together. This recent "I want to start from the beginning" business is just the latest in long line of dodges that serve to postpone the presentation of Yuzu and Mei as an actual couple.

last edited at Oct 20, 2019 1:27PM

This is ridiculous--it's not about Mei being a "sexual predator," it's about her having once been an exceptionally mature and publicly confident person, someone who was not afraid to speak her mind or to confront others.

Doing as she was told without question, isn't something I'd call mature or independent. Because she only questioned Yuzu and her friends, when it really counted, she never stood up by herself.

Besides, people becoming bumbling idiots when talking or acting their feelings is something that happens.

My complaints are not primarily about Mei's sexual persona but about her behavior as a person in general. Whatever her changing attitudes toward physical intimacy, the nervous, inarticulate Mei of Citrus+ is currently a pathetic shadow of the fiercely independent person who Yuzu originally fell in love with. (Her performances in front of the student body and the school board seem like mere callbacks to the character she originally was.)

But Yuzu didn't fell in love with Mei because she was independent or fierce, she fell in love with her because Mei was a scared little girl who wanted to have her dad back.

Waaaaay back in Chapter 24 of the main series she and Yuzu were positioned to move forward as a couple, with Mei as the more grown-up but emotionally repressed one and Yuzu as the impulsive, emotionally candid one.

This is exactly how they're being handled now. en emotionally repressed person has a long way ahead before they become actually comfortable to enact their feelings.

But since that point Sabu never really figured out how to portray them as two separate individuals who are fundamentally together. This recent "I want to start from the beginning" business is just the latest in long line of dodges that serve to postpone the presentation of Yuzu and Mei as an actual couple.

So the emotional support for each other they show up on eavery chapter doesn't count as being a couple?

So the emotional support for each other they show up on eavery chapter doesn't count as being a couple?

This is the Mei who has to try to enlist Yuzu’s best friend to even talk to her alleged lover because Mei can’t bring herself to say anything, correct?

LOL—enjoy.

Haha man Blastaar destroying Citrus on this thread with the Power of Logic. Love it, I wish Sabu would read this

I feel like the people saying that Mei has regressed have, at the very least, misunderstood her character. She was never a "sexual predator", she was simply mimicking what she had seen (and done to her), "monkey see, monkey do" if you will. From the start, it was stated that she never enacted on her desires, always only focusing on being the obedient girl she assumed it was what it was expected from her.

Now thanks to Yuzu and everything they went through, she's finally enacting those desires, but she has absolutely zero ideas of what she's supposed to do, so her idea of taking things one step at the time is because she's learning on the fly alongside Yuzu. If anything, both of them are showing a maturity they lacked in Citrus, with Yuzu learning to be less impulsive and reigning in her overwhelming love for Mei, while Mei is slowly embracing and growing comfortable with showing her affection, while juggling her responsibilities as future chairwoman of Aihara Academy.

Yes, Sabu could have them making out and fucking like rabbits but that would be completely out of character.

Readers would be hella happy tho. Isn’t that what matters?

Haha man Blastaar destroying Citrus on this thread with the Power of Logic. Love it, I wish Sabu would read this

I’m not interested in “destroying” anything. But I gave up making excuses for what was once one of my favorite series a long time ago. (Not that I thought it was ever great in terms of overall artistic execution, but it often did have a lot of refreshingly brash energy both in the characters and in some of the scenes.)

But from the very beginning of the series there were a lot of readers (sometimes it was me) straining to find psychological nuance and claiming to detect evidence of long-term narrative and thematic strategies that just never came to fruition, as ultimately demonstrated by that ridiculous finale to the main series, where all the supposedly insurmountable plot problems were handwaved away without even the pretense of explanation or justification.

I’m not surprised that people who are committed to doing so can find ways that these characters are self-consistent and the plot developments are plausible and logical—that’s what readers have been doing with Citrus all along.

But while Citrus was never a sophisticated work of narrative art, it started out being, in its own way, pretty much fun, and if readers are still having fun watching Yuzu and Mei blush at each other from across the room, well, more power to them.

(I must admit that I had hoped that if the whole gang were ever to go out to a lesbian sex movie, Mei and Yuzu might summon up the courage to actually hold hands.)

But while Citrus was never a sophisticated work of narrative art, it started out being, in its own way, pretty much fun, and if readers are still having fun watching Yuzu and Mei blush at each other from across the room, well, more power to them.

Thank you, Blastaar. While I may not agree with everything you say about this series, I at least respect you for giving logical and well thought-out reasons for why you have disdain for it. As opposed to a lot of the others on here who are just like "lolz no scissoring? Saburouta must be lynched!"

I'll admit, maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I am one of those people who still squeals everytime Mei blushes at Yuzu being cutesy and lovey. It may get repetitive, but it just makes me smile for some reason. With the way Chapter 6 and 7 played out, I have full confidence that Saburouta is going to bring them closer eventually, and I'm willing to wait however long it takes. Because in the end, after all this conflict and struggle, it's going to feel all the more rewarding.

last edited at Oct 20, 2019 6:29PM

I for one welcome our non-yuri overlords and can be of tremendous use in the non-yuri mines of Tokyo with my awesome powerful muscles and stamina.

I can't disagree with someone who doesn't like it, Sabu goes at her own pace. Could I--literally--write a better story than this? Would I read it?

Maybe Sabu is embarrassed by how trashy and inconsequential she treated these LGBTQ relationships at the outset and now she's trying to treat her characters with a little more respect. It's also Japan where people don't have sex, can't confront peers in the workplace, or their bosses, still work 70-hour plus workweeks, grow up knowing barely anything about politics. It's a society run by old people and 'tradition' with tons of centenarians.

Mei clearly betrayed and manipulated Yuzu to an extreme degree, which we all conveniently forget. I think Yuzu is just happy to have Mei around at this point. After all, we're still at the point in the story where they've just re-established Mei returning home after her being away for six months waiting for her male fiancee. They're starting to slowly rekindle the embers of their relationship--and they hadn't had sex up to the point before 36--though they were clearly on the doorsteps of it. Yuzu on the other hand, was definitely hot asf for Mei before 36--which is part of why it was so painful.

Mei NEVER reciprocated these feelings honestly. Since the story is told through the eyes of Yuzu, I can see why the audience feels like they were getting a sex scene. But Mei was manipulated by adults and never conceived of having the power of agency--there is a clear precedent in Japanese media of underpowered people finding it difficult to find agency for themselves.

Just look at Cold Fish (2010) where the main character is basically a giant pussy who gets roped into every little thing (crime, murder, sex) without ever a thought for himself or defending himself until the very end of the film. THAT'S what we're dealing with here, that level of a system washing over you and you being unable to speak out about it. In the west we do it all the time, but heck look at China, they're frigging communists brainwashed into whatever the party desires!

I think Mei is quite brave to go against all of this with her status, wealth, possible inheritance. To CHOOSE love, that was really the crux of the entire story. Western people think it all weighed on Yuzu's sexual fantasies, but she's working class. For Mei, this is all too real what she's risking giving up, fighting against the tide of tradition for one's own individuality and ambition, risking everything by going against the tide.

What we find easy perhaps they don't find so easy?

Mei is probably still half-embarrassed about hurting Yuzu, which probably means she's not so crazy to f*** right now. And the whole thing was very painful and emotional for her. She is very passive, she's gone by what people tell her to do her whole life, and just now she's starting to cut her own trail at a level--the executive level--that's probably a bit unheard of in an island nation that hasn't passed legislation to legalize same sex marriage yet.

This story is actually very Japanese in character and very progressive for the politics there. Meanwhile in the west that's not where we personally are right now.

You're free to have your own opinion and dislike this work, as all of your points are valid. But contrary to what this discussion may have you believe, some people, like myself, still love this story and these characters. Please don't invalidate that.

I didn't invalidate anything. I'm aware that Citrus is really popular, and outside of this forum people don't really criticize it much. Just making an observation that I think this is author's strategy to keep the story going, since most of the side characters haven't really offered anything significant. Most of them except Matsuri and Harumin could be removed from the story without anything changing.
You might say for example, the twins have pushed Yuzu to confess, but this really was unnecessary since Yuzu could have decided to do that on her own without the whole "my fated person" thing from Sarah, and we could see a more introspective Yuzu.
Without the twins there could still be a confession, but with them we got like at least five extra chapters. So furthering the length of this manga.
Then, Harumin's sister. Again, unnecessary drama and she became quickly irrelevant after expanding the story.
So the twins, Nene, Shirapon, Harumin's sister all have taken up a significant length of the story, but are discardable.
Notice how I didn't mention side characters like Yuzu's mom, Mei's dad and grandad, Yuzu's friends from middle school, the manager who Mei was going to get married to. Because these characters have actually contributed important parts to the story.
And frankly, even with this push from everyone, Yuzu and Mei development is still really slow. It feels like we're going in cycles which makes me believe even more that this is a way from the author to just add length to the story.
I don't have a problem with slow development as long as it makes sense. And yeah, some people might say love is not logical, but someone's actions still have to be based on something. People are still not mindless creatures to be acting completely random from one day to the other.

I agree with this point. A lot of the characters only came off as romantic rivals or other ways to develop Yuzu and Mei, help facilitate their relationship, and ended up coming off as extras once their introductory arcs were done. By comparison, Bloom Into You had only one "rival"- Sayaka- who came off as an actual three-dimensional character, rather than a plot device.

In fact, I'd suspect that this is why Citrus' story fell apart in the last two volumes of the original series, if not earlier- the author is decent at setting things up, but can't deliver the payoff. If the author doesn't have any sort of long term vision for all the side characters, then of course she'd struggle with the main couple, especially in the spin-off showing what happened between the resolution of Mei's second arranged marriage and her wedding to Yuzu.

I agree with this point. A lot of the characters only came off as romantic rivals or other ways to develop Yuzu and Mei, help facilitate their relationship, and ended up coming off as extras once their introductory arcs were done. By comparison, Bloom Into You had only one "rival"- Sayaka- who came off as an actual three-dimensional character, rather than a plot device.

Some may disagree, but I found Sayaka to be the only 3-dimensional character in Bloom Into You. Everyone else, from Doujima, Maki and even Koyomi were no more "developed" than any of the other less-significant characters in Citrus. But that's the thing. They don't need to be. They're side characters. They stay in the background and do their own thing, occasionally interacting with our main cast and getting some moments to shine. Like side characters are supposed to do.

Also, why is everyone sleeping on mah gurl Himeko? She had some great development over the course of the story! Not to mention her role as a "love rival" lasted less than a chapter and was never really taken seriously by either Mei or Yuzu.

And Matsuri's transition from manipulative and devilish gremlin to the voice of reason who genuinely cares about Yuzu and Mei's relationship... she's unquestionably best girl!

If you ask me, the majority of Citrus' cast (besides the twins, Shirapon and Mitsuko) are far from plot devices.

I for one welcome our non-yuri overlords and can be of tremendous use in the non-yuri mines of Tokyo with my awesome powerful muscles and stamina.

I can't disagree with someone who doesn't like it, Sabu goes at her own pace. Could I--literally--write a better story than this? Would I read it?

This post is a plausible interpretation of the story, like many generated by readers with, frankly, not a whole lot of help from Saburouta herself.

It seems to have become canon that the entire Mei-Yuzu romantic relationship from Chapter 24 (Mei agrees that she and Yuzu will love each other) until the start of the arranged-marriage arc constitutes conscious or unconscious bad faith by Mei, a transgression against Yuzu for which she now feels guilty and is attempting to make up for by her present “sincere” behavior.

But there’s no evidence at all that the arranged marriage was actually part of the story’s long-term trajectory until it suddenly re-appeared at the end of Chapter 32. Nothing in the Shirapon/festival/ring-exchange segment of the story indicated that the Yuzu-Mei relationship was doomed and that Mei was actually destined to marry a guy (except Mei’s characteristic mopey expression, which has always functioned as a sort of Rorschach test for readers to project onto Mei any motivation they want).

The suggestion that the final arc was basically an authorial ass-pull is supported by the preposterous Chapter 36 time skip (you know, the one with the letter where Mei says “I will not be able to meet you in person any more” even though they’re both going to the same school the whole time.)

What I have seen in this series is an author struggling to resolve a series of self-imposed narrative dilemmas and ultimately throwing up her hands in order to rush to the predestined happy ending, and a whole lot of readers rather heroically putting in a great deal more focused work and attention to detail in order to make the story unified and coherent than the author herself has done.

I actually think Citrus has a very good cast of side characters that for the most part feel pretty 3D, and I agree also that they are better characterized than all side characters of YagaKimi with the exception of Sayaka. Even the twins are pretty ok: although they were used as plot devices, I didn’t feel they were less well developed because of that. So I would say the only poorly developed character is Shirapon, who seems to have a kickass backstory what with her yakuza family, but there has been no time to show more about it yet.

I also agree with the stuff people said above about Mei having to get used to being in a relationship with Yuzu again, etc. Well it’s been only a month since she has returned home. My problem is not so much with the fact that she hasn’t made out with Yuzu yet, but rather her overall behaviour which is very unlike how she used to behave during the course of the story. Besides that, the MAIN thing that bothers me is the way Sabu is handling Mei and Yuzu’s process of being in a relationship again. As Blastaar said, these are 2 people who live together and in fact sleep on the same bed. It seems a no-brainer to me that the first thing to show in Citrus+ once Mei came back was how they behaved when sleeping side by side again, how the initial conversation was etc. Did they touch at all, were there apologies? Heck even if they were silent, those are the moments to show. Instead, she is showing us a version of the story centred around the school as though we are “complete outsiders” to their relationship if that makes sense...

I agree with this point. A lot of the characters only came off as romantic rivals or other ways to develop Yuzu and Mei, help facilitate their relationship, and ended up coming off as extras once their introductory arcs were done. By comparison, Bloom Into You had only one "rival"- Sayaka- who came off as an actual three-dimensional character, rather than a plot device.

Some may disagree, but I found Sayaka to be the only 3-dimensional character in Bloom Into You. Everyone else, from Doujima, Maki and even Koyomi were no more "developed" than any of the other less-significant characters in Citrus. But that's the thing. They don't need to be. They're side characters. They stay in the background and do their own thing, occasionally interacting with our main cast and getting some moments to shine. Like side characters are supposed to do.

Also, why is everyone sleeping on mah gurl Himeko? She had some great development over the course of the story! Not to mention her role as a "love rival" lasted less than a chapter and was never really taken seriously by either Mei or Yuzu.

And Matsuri's transition from manipulative and devilish gremlin to the voice of reason who genuinely cares about Yuzu and Mei's relationship... she's unquestionably best girl!

If you ask me, the majority of Citrus' cast (besides the twins, Shirapon and Mitsuko) are far from plot devices.

Regarding the Bloom Into You cast, I personally felt they had lives of their own that, while connected with the leads in some ways, didn't solely exist to push the plot forward. For example, Koyomi has her own dream of becoming an author, which is touched on in Chapter 25, and for her, writing the school play is a way of furthering that dream. Maki also serves well as a foil to Yuu, and while Doujima's mostly comic relief, there are moments when he shows a surprisingly reliable side.

I actually liked Himeko more than most of the rest of Citrus' cast, particularly her friendship with Mei. It was nice to see Matsuri come to care about Yuzu and (to some extent) Mei, but it was also a bit difficult to accept how easily she got off for blackmailing Mei.

Regarding Yuzu and Mei's relationship, I do agree that there's going to be more than a little awkwardness as they try to rebuild their relationship after the events of the end of Volume 9 up until the last chapter of the original series. In that sense, I appreciate that Citrus Plus actually tries to fill in the blanks and bridge the gap between Yuzu talking Mei out of the arranged marriage and actually getting together with her. Of course, I can't help but worry that there will be some sort of contrived drama at the eleventh hour, but since the story's still in its early phases, we'll just have to see how it goes.

last edited at Oct 20, 2019 9:16PM

its looks like mei doesnt feel so good in her life... somehow there are lot of things in this story still make me worry a lot,,, Im still not sure If mei and yuzu already happy,,, they seems still have such a burden on their shoulder,, is this the risk of same sex relationship ??

It was nice to see Matsuri come to care about Yuzu and (to some extent) Mei, but it was also a bit difficult to accept how easily she got off for blackmailing Mei.

The monster-to-pussycat makeover was actually something of a Citrus specialty, including the sociopath Matsuri becoming the voice of reason; Harumin’s big-sis student-council-president-from-Hell turned siscon, and Shirapon—who once looked liked a quasi-supernatural threat to reveal the MCs secret romance—became the keeper of wacky yakuza henchmen.

Not to mention Grandpa . . .

The monster-to-pussycat makeover was actually something of a Citrus specialty, including the sociopath Matsuri becoming the voice of reason; Harumin’s big-sis student-council-president-from-Hell turned siscon, and Shirapon—who once looked liked a quasi-supernatural threat to reveal the MCs secret romance—became the keeper of wacky yakuza henchmen.

Not to mention Grandpa . . .

To be fair, Matsuri already was kind of a voice of reason when she was first introduced. She hammered into Yuzu the idea that step-sisters dating would never be accepted, and we saw her helping her friend recover from a breakup when she first appeared (even though she wasn't being genuine XD). I think her (arguably) quick turnaround is due to the fact that, despite her devious nature, she actually did care about Yuzu. And when Yuzu gave her that snap-back-to-reality talk about love, she realized that, knowing Yuzu loves someone else now, the best way she can show her love for Yuzu is by supporting her all the way.

The others, however, I can agree out of the blue. Especially Grandpa and Mitsu... ko... wait, she's a siscon? Isn't she supposed to be involved with Maruta? Kowalski, Analysis!

last edited at Oct 20, 2019 11:28PM

I still think Yuzu deserves a better gf than Mei.....
I already don't like Sayaka (cause she's a mini-Mei)
Why do these girls (Yuzu and Miyubi) feel attracted to cold characters? It's just boring

Sayaka isn't as cold as dead ice like Mei. Her response was sheepish and cute when Miyabi told her she was hungry. She just has a brave personality but not something unfeeling.

The others, however, I can agree out of the blue. Especially Grandpa and Mitsu... ko... wait, she's a siscon? Isn't she supposed to be involved with Maruta? Kowalski, Analysis!

OK, “siscon” might be a bit of a stretch, but there’s no doubt she’s shown to be a biker assassin on the outside with a soft, gooey center where lil sis is concerned.

EDIT: And given the blinding speed with which she was rehabilitated, it’s easy to forget that the Matsuri we first meet is a twisted piece of work indeed. She’s a borderline sadistic criminal before she’s transformed into a music chick with a bit of an attitude.

last edited at Oct 21, 2019 12:10AM

They should read 1x1/2 to give themselves some confidence

I believe, although with no evidence, that Matsuri is still pretty high in sociopathy but circumstances lead to her good behaviour. Like the fact that she genuinely cares for Yuzu and has probably been trying to catch Harumin’s attention. If she continued to misbehave Harumin would not let her become closer.

I believe, although with no evidence, that Matsuri is still pretty high in sociopathy but circumstances lead to her good behaviour. Like the fact that she genuinely cares for Yuzu and has probably been trying to catch Harumin’s attention. If she continued to misbehave Harumin would not let her become closer.

That's a more satisfying theory than the idea that the reckless and gratuitously cruel person of the early chapters was instantly domesticated by a study session with Mei.

Again, another instance where volatile and unpredictable characters have become much more tamped down and, dare I say it, ordinary, over the course of the series.

There was a point in the series where I even thought Mei was a bit of a sociopath too, since she emphasized how similar Matsuri and her are.

But...nope. We wish, at least it would keep stuff interesting. Early on I genuinely felt the point of the series was to show this sexy clash of Yuzu and Harumin being these normal, sweet people, and having to deal with crazy girls like Mei and Matsuri xD

last edited at Oct 21, 2019 10:40AM