I've been even a SFX editor and encoder for a fansub for years. A fansub that subbed almost exclusively artsy and niche anime. I've been into anime and manga for 15+ years. That experience with Touhou doujins comes from this reader. I hope you can check the date I registered here. Please note that I said "Touhou doujins", I find the Touhou universe interesting and some characters really well done.

I hope I'm not the only one that thinks that the yuri tag almost always mean a sub-par manga when it's not plain awful.
TL;DR Yuri genre is sub-par most of the time. This is one is so bad the only attention it receives comes from ppl that would read anything with the yuri tag.

Have to disagree on that point. I don't see much differences to other genres on terms of quality. Take any other genre and you get an equal ratio of good titles vs bad and even equaly inummerable short-manga and oneshots. It's just that compared the overall quantity in the yuri-genre is quite low. In other genres the scanlators can actually cherry-pick and most of the small titles or those of questionable quality don't even reach the readers awareness.

Have to disagree on that point. I don't see much differences to other genres on terms of quality. Take any other genre and you get an equal ratio of good titles vs bad and even equaly inummerable short-manga and oneshots. It's just that compared the overall quantity in the yuri-genre is quite low. In other genres the scanlators can actually cherry-pick and most of the small titles or those of questionable quality don't even reach the readers awareness.

Agree with you and don't know how that's disagreeing with me. That's why scanlating about everything you lay your hands on is a bad idea. I'm sure Yuri Project likes this manga and but I'm quite sure too that this got printed just because it's yuri and the genre is starving for content badly. You can see it quite often at the end of several chapters/oneshots where the author explains how she/he got the work for that project. It's the big fish in a small pond or small fish in a big pond issue every genre faces. If you don't sell making a sup-par shounen just make a sub-par yuri or any other niche genre. If you are a yuri reader (and I am) it's painful to pick a new release and realize how hideous most of the yuri stuff is and how precious quality yuri is.

Have to disagree on that point. I don't see much differences to other genres on terms of quality. Take any other genre and you get an equal ratio of good titles vs bad and even equaly inummerable short-manga and oneshots. It's just that compared the overall quantity in the yuri-genre is quite low. In other genres the scanlators can actually cherry-pick and most of the small titles or those of questionable quality don't even reach the readers awareness.

Agree with you and don't know how that's disagreeing with me. That's why scanlating about everything you lay your hands on is a bad idea. I'm sure Yuri Project likes this manga and but I'm quite sure too that this got printed just because it's yuri and the genre is starving for content badly. You can see it quite often at the end of several chapters/oneshots where the author explains how she/he got the work for that project. It's the big fish in a small pond or small fish in a big pond issue every genre faces. If you don't sell making a sup-par shounen just make a sub-par yuri or any other niche genre. If you are a yuri reader (and I am) it's painful to pick a new release and realize how hideous most of the yuri stuff is and how precious quality yuri is.

Dont know what yuri you have been reading but for the most part (minus this and citrus and mayyybe the feelings we must all endure but that has actual effort put into it) the yuri i have been reading has been pretty good recently (though i am starting to get annoyed with inugami-san to nekoyama-san for it just introducing a ton of characters and not even jokingly developing the relationship between the main characters like the manga is.....tbh atm i prefer sakura trick when it comes to comedy yuri because that at least even if played for laughs feels like legitimate attraction at the very least.........and im off topic again

After reading this thread and posting in it myself, I have come to the conclusions that this is Lemonade readers in a nutshell

After reading this thread and posting in it myself, I have come to the conclusions that this is Lemonade readers in a nutshell

Well i am a sith in the old republic......

After reading this thread and posting in it myself, I have come to the conclusions that this is Lemonade readers in a nutshell

Eh, it's a lot more weary than hate at this point. But "give in to the simmering annoyance" really doesn't have the same ring, so close enough.

I hope I'm not the only one that thinks that the yuri tag almost always mean a sub-par manga when it's not plain awful. That's why you have to dig so much to find anything worthwhile within this genre. With my post before I was trying to say that this manga is barrel bottom in about every aspect: art, story, development and characters wise.

You say that this manga fails on every category, art, story, development and characters, but you don't give any evidence to justify such an extreme point of view.

I can't argue with you on the art category, since I'm not an artist and I'm pretty sure that what you consider good art differs from what I consider good art. I'm just gonna point out that this manga's art is very, very simple, and yet, despite that, it doesn't feel amateurish at all. Almost like it's a stylistic choice rather than lack of skill. I personally find it very charming.

Now, I wish you'd explain yourself on why you'd say it fails in the story, development and character departments.

To be completely honest, I feel that some important aspects of this manga are flying over a lot of people's heads, who are too busy lamenting the lack of yuri or hating on the guy. I feel that the main problem is that we were expecting a romance, when this manga isn't even tagged as such. I don't think this story's central theme is the girls' love for each other at all. This manga is about the protagonist's feelings and growth as a character.

It baffles me how you can say there's no character development in this manga, when in my eyes Youko's character development is amazing. This manga starts with the protagonist hating on the guy because he called her Imoko, and we're introduced to her dislike of being in her sister's shadow. But as it progresses, she realizes that she doesn't hate him /only/ because of that. What makes her hate for him so intense is that she feels like he's going to steal her best friend/crush from her. Of course, she takes a bit to realize that that's the reason she feels so hurt. It's obvious to the reader, too, especially when you compare her initial "Ugh, that dude is so annoying," reaction, in which she's angered by him but it's not like it's the end of the world, with the post-friend-having-a-crush heartbroken reaction, in which she is tormented by his existence.

So then we have the little arc of her ignoring her friend as punishment for liking the guy she hated. Now, regardless of whether you feel that her friend is a terrible person or not for liking the guy who calls Youko "Imoko" doesn't come into the equation here. What that arc was about was that Youko was playing it tough and giving her the cold shoulder on purpose out of spite, and she KNEW that. It's not "hmph, bitch deserved that." It's "crap, I'm hurting the girl I'm supposed to love, and yet I can't seem to stop because I'm too angry." That's what Youko is feeling during that arc, and I think it's amazing because it's such a human thing to do. I don't think I'm the only one who has ended up saying/doing hurtful things to the people who care about me because of my petty anger/frustration/jealousy. She's such a human character, and I love how in this manga it's not like she has a sudden realization that she's hurting her friend and suddenly gets over it and goes into full "I want my beloved to be happy" mode, but instead has to keep struggling with her negative feelings.

Now, even though I don't really like Keita as a person, I think that he, as a character, is a perfect foil to Youko. He is shown to be a dumbfuck who doesn't realize how what he says affects other people. He's annoying, rude, and gets in Youko's way. But he doesn't have bad intentions at all, and is shown to care enough about his Kouhai to go out of his way to apologize for something he didn't see as bad, just to get them to reconcile. I'm not saying he's a good person, nor am I saying he's a bad person either. He's a human, too, just like Youko, with good and bad points. I believe that Youko learning to deal with him as a person and accepting his good points as well as his shortcomings is a big part of her character development. She was demonizing him from the beginning, while later in the story she's shown to see him a bit more as his own person rather than just an asshole. She still hates him, but she also starts to understand him a bit, and if you don't think that shows how great her character development is, then I don't think you and I have the same definition of character development.

I can't really say much about Youko's crush, since I find her duller than a high school football player's mind, but I'm also biased because her crush on Keita and blindness to Youko's feelings frustrates me to no end. But that doesn't mean she's in the wrong or anything, and I like how little scenes that show her insecurity about her feelings lets us see that she's not the eternally smiling goofball that she seems to be on the outside. I do agree with a lot of people that since quite a while her whole character has revolved around her crush, and it's starting to get old.

What I'm trying to get at is that, yeah, I understand the guys who are complaining because they were expecting yuri romance; I also like my yuri stories to have proper romance between girls (though I agree with Sol Falling that the tag might be justified due to it dealing with the protagonist's frustration revolving around her attraction for a female friend). I also understand disliking it because it uses the typical het crush to get in the way of the best friend protagonist, it also annoys me a great deal. But saying it's the worst of the worst and not backing it up feels just like an excuse to bash something you don't like.

Ugh. I'm sorry for this tl;dr. This isn't my favorite manga either, but credit should be given where credit's due, and although I don't think this manga is a good yuri story in what I would expect from one, I do believe it's an amazing story about Youko's growth as a character.

last edited at Jun 2, 2014 8:23PM

I can't believe I'm answering this lol! XD

To be completely honest, I feel that some important aspects of this manga are flying over a lot of people's heads, who are too busy lamenting the lack of yuri or hating on the guy. I feel that the main problem is that we were expecting a romance, when this manga isn't even tagged as such. I don't think this story's central theme is the girls' love for each other at all. This manga is about the protagonist's feelings and growth as a character.

Honestly, I want a good story. My favorite mangas of all time are all extremely light or vague on the romance department. I'm not expecting a straight up hardcore yuri flowery love fest (though I like those a lot too). What I want is a good story. However, the yuri genre tends to have better romances from what I have experienced thus far.

So then we have the little arc of her ignoring her friend as punishment for liking the guy she hated. Now, regardless of whether you feel that her friend is a terrible person or not for liking the guy who calls Youko "Imoko" doesn't come into the equation here. What that arc was about was that Youko was playing it tough and giving her the cold shoulder on purpose out of spite, and she KNEW that. It's not "hmph, bitch deserved that." It's "crap, I'm hurting the girl I'm supposed to love, and yet I can't seem to stop because I'm too angry." That's what Youko is feeling during that arc, and I think it's amazing because it's such a human thing to do. I don't think I'm the only one who has ended up saying/doing hurtful things to the people who care about me because of my petty anger/frustration/jealousy. She's such a human character, and I love how in this manga it's not like she has a sudden realization that she's hurting her friend and suddenly gets over it and goes into full "I want my beloved to be happy" mode, but instead has to keep struggling with her negative feelings.

Youko's friend completely ignored the fact she was insulted, humiliated, and offended by his actions. Most people I know of who had friends that did this have their friendship seriously threatened or it's broken up and almost never repaired. I saw no decent character growth here when there could have been some real solid growth for a character to actually move on from a friend (which I rarely see happen in romances).

Now, even though I don't really like Keita as a person, I think that he, as a character, is a perfect foil to Youko. He is shown to be a dumbfuck who doesn't realize how what he says affects other people. He's annoying, rude, and gets in Youko's way. But he doesn't have bad intentions at all, and is shown to care enough about his Kouhai to go out of his way to apologize for something he didn't see as bad, just to get them to reconcile. I'm not saying he's a good person, nor am I saying he's a bad person either. He's a human, too, just like Youko, with good and bad points. I believe that Youko learning to deal with him as a person and accepting his good points as well as his shortcomings is a big part of her character development. She was demonizing him from the beginning, while later in the story she's shown to see him a bit more as his own person rather than just an asshole. She still hates him, but she also starts to understand him a bit, and if you don't think that shows how great her character development is, then I don't think you and I have the same definition of character development.

Just to reconcile for the sake of reconciling is a pretty big douchy move on his part since he didn't take the time to really understand Youko's position. Then he continues calling her Imoko and turns it into her identity after she was clearly offended and hurt by it. Lastly, her friend has been spectacularly unsupportive of Youko this entire time. Youko growing as a character would have been to dump her friend after the initial bout about Keita and then no giving in with him when they first tried to reconcile. She's also coming across as a bit of a lone wolf since it seems everyone is sticking up for Keita and not really trying to tell him off when he's hurting Youko or giving her more support and advice. And her character development seems to be the only one trying to make any headway, like pushing against a crowd. That is why this is very frustrating for me. I felt like it had a few chances to really see the whole cast have some parallel development but instead we do and don't see it with Youko. Also, my huge disliking of Keita stems from the fact I knew a guy in my high school who was like that. A lot of people became very annoyed with him because he never took anything seriously and was always goofing around. When he started going to far or just getting on people's nerves we'd tell him off, and this went for a whole range of different personalities. Thus my dislike of Keita comes from that and also just how the story has been progressing.

Also, this has far more yuri content than Stretch which has very very subtle hints that only people wearing incredibly thick yuri goggles can claim to be seen. But for me, I usually want a good story first, and a romance second. The het storyline isn't an issue as a plot device but it becomes an issue with how it's been written (especially in this instance). Like you, I think Youko as a character has shown SOME character development, but it's hard to measure when no one else seems to be growing alongside her. She showed me a lot of potential initially but I felt like she missed some very big chances from growth which made me wonder if she was "out of character" for those scenes just to prolong the drama. (I.E. the author created these characters but when one's personality would take them in an entirely new direction, the author didn't want that to happen so they did this and that instead. Basically, I though Youko had more back bone but when it came time for the show down she didn't stand her ground the way I thought she was being portrayed. That made wonder if she was written out of character.)

I'm also starting to think I may need to take a break from Lemonade and come back to it with a fresher set of eyes and a clearer thought process.

wow.. so much text...
Call me strange, but I kind of enjoy this, too.

By enjoy I means I got irritated to Keita too, just like how Youko get irritated to him. It doesn't means I like it when I get irritated by something, but it means I feel I can understand how the main character feels. Means I understand whats going on here, on the story. And that makes me enjoy the story.

After I think about it, I think I'm understand now why I can't enjoy Akuma no Riddle. I think that's because I don't understand what's going on there.

He likes her .... I can't breathe!

And then you think we finally got ride of him and BOOM! he comes back to say his final "Imoko" ... I love this series

He likes her .... I can't breathe!

And then you think we finally got ride of him and BOOM! he comes back to say his final "Imoko" ... I love this series

I am completely confused as to who he was talking about, I assumed Youko, but I also thought he was talking about Maki, but then for Youko why would he call it a "Losing Battle" unless he knew Youko's orientation, honestly what he said, no matter who he meant, only makes sense if he knows Youko's orientation and intentions .

All well one more chapter till the special Hug

last edited at Jun 7, 2014 8:07PM

Wait, I was right? He didn't keep Maki from confessing to spare her feelings, it was because he actually liked someone else?

It's amazing that every, every time I read a chapter of this I end up fairly irritated. Oh, and then when I thought that guy leaves to never come back, not only he did come back, but also we know he likes Youko. I'm going to cool off my head a bit.

last edited at Jun 7, 2014 8:16PM

It's amazing that every, every time I read a chapter of this I end up fairly irritated. Oh, and then when I thought that guy leaves to never come back, not only he did come back, but also we know he likes Youko. I'm going to cool off my head a bit.

don't worry one more chapter and its all over, and the ending is Youko/Maki

A story of everyone being an idiot.
You know what, you can even call them super-mature, cause I only remember this level of idiocy during late teens.

It's amazing that every, every time I read a chapter of this I end up fairly irritated. Oh, and then when I thought that guy leaves to never come back, not only he did come back, but also we know he likes Youko. I'm going to cool off my head a bit.

don't worry one more chapter and its all over, and the ending is Youko/Maki

...............................thats rushed as fuck, just end it with them being friends cause i see 0 romantic potential between Youko and maki even with my yuri goggles set to past my shipping of the teachers from azumanga diaoh, hell it got set past my shipping of toph and katara THAT'S how powered up my yuri goggles are right now

A story of everyone being an idiot.
You know what, you can even call them super-mature, cause I only remember this level of idiocy during late teens.

Im at the very tail end of my late teens and im not an idiot :(

last edited at Jun 7, 2014 8:31PM

God damn. The guy graduates and because the all-important fuckass that nobody likes is leaving we get a timeskip. Who is the MC in this again?

last edited at Jun 7, 2014 8:38PM

A story of everyone being an idiot.
You know what, you can even call them super-mature, cause I only remember this level of idiocy during late teens.

Im at the very tail end of my late teens and im not an idiot :(

Yeah, but you're a yuri fan. That's a sign of high intelligence.

God damn. The guy graduates and because the all-important fuckass that nobody likes is leaving we get a timeskip. Who is the MC in this again?

Yeah, but if they didn't have a time skip they'd actually have to put all the groundwork of a Maki x Youkou relationship in the story. And really, who'd want to read that crap?

TBH I've only read like 5 random chapters + the last one so far.

With just that (to me) this manga comes off as the 7 hour long car rides (if we go over the speed limit) when I have to go to another city, the roads go around mountain ranges with lots of crazy turns. I always get sick with something, one of my worst experiences being a brutal case of diarrhea and there is only 1 place to stop when out of the cities. Thats my luck I guess.

7 hours stuck in a car
Lots of twists and turns
Over the speed limit
While having diarrhea
Only 1 stop while on the road

Sometimes, the trip is just not worth the pain.
A few days later the family plans a recreational trip to the same city... NO THANKS!

(But hey, the comments here are hilarious)

A story of everyone being an idiot.
You know what, you can even call them super-mature, cause I only remember this level of idiocy during late teens.

Im at the very tail end of my late teens and im not an idiot :(

Yeah, but you're a yuri fan. That's a sign of high intelligence.

so all the youtube comments calling me dumb for liking a show as "repetitive" (seriously every episode has a kiss but as far as repetitiveness goes that's it, plus even those progress cause first episode with get stiff embarrassed and near the end we get tongue and "you're acting aggressive today" talk.......im ranting again dammit) as sakura trick were just jelly of my superior intellect? awesome.

Yeah, but if they didn't have a time skip they'd actually have to put all the groundwork of a Maki x Youkou relationship in the story. And really, who'd want to read that crap?

Or they would have to do the SMART thing and make Youkou realize: maki is not gay and never will be, i need to get over her

last edited at Jun 7, 2014 8:51PM

Whoo! Time skip~
I love time skips!
And why the heck is that senpai still visiting!?

so all the youtube comments calling me dumb (snipped)

Liking or not liking a genre of media doesn't actually reflect anything on intelligence. That poster was just patting themselves and you on the back.
Life advice: never scroll down to the comments section on Youtube. Nothing good comes from it.

last edited at Jun 7, 2014 11:30PM