She is simply doing the same exact thing Umiko does when specs get changed. The game designer should be told that their inability to do their job is hurting the rest of the team. If a coder has to spend 2 months on every little game event then that's just going to cause delays. So better to let Hajime know that she needs to get it together rather than just letting her string an intern around in circles.

Yes, but with one crucial difference: She is just a lowly student on evaluation, trying to get into a company, while Umiko can tell Hajime or whoever she likes what she's thinking of changes because they're on the same level in the company hierarchy. If an intern in my company would be this cocky towards my employees, no matter their skill, after 3 months their out.

It seems to me that Naru is focused on doing what she's told and following the letter of the law, while the veterans are thinking about making a game that's fun to play. That means lots of annoying changes, and it is true that vets need to be reminded how vulnerable a new employee would feel about missing deadlines, etc.. Umiko is second to none in getting annoyed at last-minute changes, but as she says, "I don't want to give up on the desire to create a good product."

Yes. I think she has skill in programming, but she is absolutely unsuited for working in this particular company. She understands programming a game but she has no idea of creating a game.

last edited at Aug 31, 2017 11:39AM

Morgan posted:

It seems to me that Naru is focused on doing what she's told and following the letter of the law, while the veterans are thinking about making a game that's fun to play. That means lots of annoying changes, and it is true that vets need to be reminded how vulnerable a new employee would feel about missing deadlines, etc.. Umiko is second to none in getting annoyed at last-minute changes, but as she says, "I don't want to give up on the desire to create a good product."

Yes. I think she has skill in programming, but she is absolutely unsuited for working in this particular company. She understands programming a game but she has no idea of creating a game.

Well they (Momo and Naru) made a game previously, not a big game but she does have a small idea ... All she needs is experience in a real company and words from Umiko would help her understand, "absolutely unsuited" is putting it too far, for example Kou at first was put in charge and what happened? she has the skills but wasn't good working with people and the whole project was affected and many people had to leave, would that make her absolutely unsuited for the company? Did they fired her? nah all she needed was time and Naru too, at the end of the chapter Naru is told that Hajime is new at being leader and why the changes are made (Thanks Umiko!), I love how these conflicts arise but they don't take too long to be resolved, and so, Naru is now more experienced and suited for this.

Because, of course we love these characters, we've been seeing it for years, we know that they're good people so a part of us wants to side with them no matter what, But Naru doesn't know, Momo doesn't know ... Nenechi does know and she's more relaxed so in a professional point of view, Naru is not in the wrong, but if this keeps up worst case scenario Momo gets to stay and they fire Naru and that would really fucking sucks and I don't think Momo would like to stay after that, but that wouldn't be New Game material... That would be Shirobako

last edited at Aug 31, 2017 1:14PM

Their student project game is actually probably the least believable thing in the entire manga.

Naru seems to only care about making games with Momo, which would explain why she treats the current project, where she's not doing that, almost like a school assignment. Which is again problematic, because Momo is going into graphics, so they won't be directly working together on just about anything.

Honestly, the entirety of Naru's aspirations seems to be "Momo wants to make games, so I want to join her", which makes some of the extreme lengths she goes to accomplish it and how serious she takes it seem a bit absurd.

And makes her seem even worse for being so condescending about Nene's reason not being serious enough.

Granted she may have more reasons, but that's all she's actually given. And she hasn't given any other characters the benefit of a doubt, so why should she get one!

Yes, but with one crucial difference: She is just a lowly student on evaluation, trying to get into a company, while Umiko can tell Hajime or whoever she likes what she's thinking of changes because they're on the same level in the company hierarchy. If an intern in my company would be this cocky towards my employees, no matter their skill, after 3 months their out.

I'm sorry but that's just piss poor management then. I get the idea of seniority but it that is what you go on when a new employee rightfully calls out a veteran then you're just cementing the issue. You need new blood to mix up things and try to find new solutions to old problems, you don't do that by firing every new face that has the balls to call out issues. Hell, companies like Amazon encourage new employees to have a spine and voice their opinions and frustrations.

Hajime has a problem, she knows she has a problem but doesn't know how to deal with it. If Naru didn't confront her then they would have been stuck in a loop trying to finish a simple mini-game. If she didn't push the issue of the deadline then Hajime would have kept using the excuse that there is leeway and that they shouldn't worry about it. This would have caused delays, Hajime would have looked bad for poor planning skills, Naru would have looked bad for not getting enough work done fast enough. Naru forcing Hajime to get serious about planning is a good thing that benefits both parties.

Tsubame is one cheeky fucker

Yes, but with one crucial difference: She is just a lowly student on evaluation, trying to get into a company, while Umiko can tell Hajime or whoever she likes what she's thinking of changes because they're on the same level in the company hierarchy. If an intern in my company would be this cocky towards my employees, no matter their skill, after 3 months their out.

I'm sorry but that's just piss poor management then. I get the idea of seniority but it that is what you go on when a new employee rightfully calls out a veteran then you're just cementing the issue. You need new blood to mix up things and try to find new solutions to old problems, you don't do that by firing every new face that has the balls to call out issues. Hell, companies like Amazon encourage new employees to have a spine and voice their opinions and frustrations.

Hajime has a problem, she knows she has a problem but doesn't know how to deal with it. If Naru didn't confront her then they would have been stuck in a loop trying to finish a simple mini-game. If she didn't push the issue of the deadline then Hajime would have kept using the excuse that there is leeway and that they shouldn't worry about it. This would have caused delays, Hajime would have looked bad for poor planning skills, Naru would have looked bad for not getting enough work done fast enough. Naru forcing Hajime to get serious about planning is a good thing that benefits both parties.

No. Just no.
Of course she has the right to point out problems. Pointing out upcoming problems is good. BUT she has to mind her status in the company. As for now she's JUST a student on probation. Getting cocky - not only with Hajime but with other fellow colleagues as well - is a no go. As far as I see her until now, she just does her work but is absolutely no teamplayer. I give it to her that the whole situation is new to her, BUT despite her skill I would not hire someone actively working against their team.

Then again, this manga has nothing to do with real live companies. A company working this way would just get bankrupt after months. In the end all are happy because Naru and Momo integrate, everyone get's a job because reasons and all of them just get "New Game Washed" til their all the same mediocre character without much depth. So who cares. This great manga should have ended after the first game. Now it's just mediocre.

Their student project game is actually probably the least believable thing in the entire manga.

Naru seems to only care about making games with Momo, which would explain why she treats the current project, where she's not doing that, almost like a school assignment. Which is again problematic, because Momo is going into graphics, so they won't be directly working together on just about anything.

Honestly, the entirety of Naru's aspirations seems to be "Momo wants to make games, so I want to join her", which makes some of the extreme lengths she goes to accomplish it and how serious she takes it seem a bit absurd.

And makes her seem even worse for being so condescending about Nene's reason not being serious enough.

Granted she may have more reasons, but that's all she's actually given. And she hasn't given any other characters the benefit of a doubt, so why should she get one!

Exactly what I was thinking when I said that she understands programming a game but she has no idea of creating a game. All I get of her is that she wants to work with Momo and that she wants the job therefore. Yes, she may be good a programming, but she doesn't care one bit about the finished product. She wants to get the minigame done because of the deadline but also because of her evaluation - even if it feels wrong.

If I had to sum her up, Naru is a cocky little bitch, that doesn't care about the finished product as long as she'll get a personal advantage out of it. Not someone I'd like to hire for my company.

last edited at Aug 31, 2017 7:33PM

No. Just no.
Of course she has the right to point out problems. Pointing out upcoming problems is good. BUT she has to mind her status in the company. As for now she's JUST a student on probation. Getting cocky - not only with Hajime but with other fellow colleagues as well - is a no go. As far as I see her until now, she just does her work but is absolutely no teamplayer. I give it to her that the whole situation is new to her, BUT despite her skill I would not hire someone actively working against their team.

Her "status" shouldnt mean a damn thing since she is 100% correct. Hajime needed to be told that she had to do her damn job so that the team could move forward. Hajime constantly switching specs while stringing along a coworker is the problem that needed to be addressed, not Naru's attitude. If it were then Umiko would have reprimanded her instead of agreeing.

Then again, this manga has nothing to do with real live companies. A company working this way would just get bankrupt after months. In the end all are happy because Naru and Momo integrate, everyone get's a job because reasons and all of them just get "New Game Washed" til their all the same mediocre character without much depth. So who cares. This great manga should have ended after the first game. Now it's just mediocre.

Again, sorry, but you're just wrong. This is how some of the most successful companies in the world work now-a-days. I've worked at Amazon, they literally have it written on the walls to challenge seniors when they do something you don't agree with. I seriously mean it, they literally wrote the words "Have a backbone, stand up for yourself." on the walls in the break rooms.

Besides, how would fresh blood challenging seniors cause the company to go bankrupt? You know what would cause a game company to go bankrupt? Game designers constantly changing specs and never being happy with the results. This would lead to delays, which would lead to fans losing interest (especially for a new IP), which would lead to publishers pulling out, which would lead to cancelling the game. If Umiko didn't challenge Hazuki or Naru didn't challenge Hajime then no actual work would ever get done.

I am genuinely curious how much longer people will be able to contine defending Naru's actions amd attitude.

last edited at Aug 31, 2017 10:43PM

I am genuinely curious how much longer people will be able to contine defending Naru's actions amd attitude.

It doesn't matter what the future brings, she is 100% right in her current actions. Hajime apologized and Umiko didn't reprimand her.

Hajime apologized because she is a nice person.

Whether Naru would be right or wrong in the real world is irrelevant; in the world of the story her attitude needs to fundamentally change, which is exactly what Umiko (gently) tells her in the last two panels.

I just can't see Hajime as being nearly as in the wrong as some other people are. It's Hajime's job to get the minigame past inspection. If she turns it in for inspecting and it isn't good enough for Hazuki, at worst the work will be outright rejected, while at best Hazuki will demand numerous changes of her own (or just say "try a bit more"), which would cause even worse delay.

Hajime seems to have a firm grip on when the deadline is "on paper" and when things actually need to be done by, and a good idea of the kind of things Hazuki might find lacking. Naru wanting to turn something in way ahead of schedule to impress people is the least of her worries. Hajime has a much bigger picture to worry about, while Naru only cares about herself. (Not realizing that in the long run, worrying about the bigger picture could actually end up making her look much better)

But even if you do think Hajime is being completly terrible, calling Naru "100% correct" is absurd. There are clearly better ways she could have handled it, and better ways she could have put it. Acting bitchy and essentially insulting a senior staff member that is supervising you to their face when you've barely been there a full month is never what I would call "being correct" in your actions or attitude.

I don't think Naru is completely right and without fault, I mean, even Momo (her best "friend" who is also new in the company) came out and said "Are you really okay with this?" and we see her trying to ignore the fact that the game had issues, in short trying to just get the task done and nothing more, is it good? bad? she pretends that it doesn't matter because she can pull out the "I was just following instructions", so in a way she can be useful to get shit done and that's good for a company but when it comes to making a game fun you need to be open minded and have patience, this is where she really makes friction with the team because everyone knows this already, maybe it's a matter of passion.

That's where you can tell how the author puts her there to be a problem, almost forcing her to be unnaturally awful and unfriendly with everyone but Momo... But from that to say stuff like "D-Did she dare to speak her mind?! THAT FUCKING BITCH!!!" I just wonder what kind of things are you all seeing that I am not. Umiko told her some pretty wise words, if she follows that or not is what would determine if she is indeed good or bad for me.

PS: And in the case that she doesn't realize her main problem (what everyone knows already) and comes with yet more friction and conflict I could consider that bad writing or forced drama... I mean... Umiko just told her, Momo told her too and she thought about it in her desk.

last edited at Sep 1, 2017 1:35AM

It's less that she spoke up and more about how she said it. Like, what purpose does bringing up Hajime's own status at the company really serve there other than to be a not-so-veiled jab at her?

Addendum: If she'd simply asked how breaking the deadline would affect her evaluation as a provisional employee, it wouldn't bother me nearly as much. But she had to do it in a very passive-aggressive and nearly condescending way.

last edited at Sep 1, 2017 1:49AM

Whether Naru would be right or wrong in the real world is irrelevant; in the world of the story her attitude needs to fundamentally change, which is exactly what Umiko (gently) tells her in the last two panels.

Except her attitude is exactly like Umiko's. Umiko has a far worse attitude towards Hazuki, even going as far as threatening her with physical violence if she makes spec changes.

There are clearly better ways she could have handled it, and better ways she could have put it.

There really isn't. She put it exactly as she should have, with the cold hard truth. She was very open about why she was irritated and what Hajime had to do in order for the team to move forward. She explained that she was under pressure to get the work done so that she can get hired and didn't have the luxury of messing around with her first project. She accepted the first spec changes despite pushing the dead line, its the second change and the possibility of further delays that ticked her off.

It's less that she spoke up and more about how she said it. Like, what purpose does bringing up Hajime's own status at the company really serve there other than to be a not-so-veiled jab at her?

To point at the fact that Naru is on thinner ice, that she can't screw around because she is under a microscope while Hajime doesn't have nearly as much pressure on her. Naru has much more to prove and Hajime didn't understand that.

Umiko isn't really an apt comparison, as she takes that attitude for completely different reasons, as she has clearly stated, and she actually does care about making the product better. Naru only seems to care about getting things done as assigned, damn the final quality.

And the thing is, Naru can't even be sure they're evaluating her so heavily on speed. Since she's doing actual work for the game they are making, they might put more emphasis on the total quality of the final product. So she'd be screwing herself by trying to rush out something that ends up being poorly-designed.

Umiko isn't really an apt comparison, as she takes that attitude for completely different reasons, as she has clearly stated, and she actually does care about making the product better. Naru only seems to care about getting things done as assigned, damn the final quality.

How does she take the attitude for a completely different reason? She doesn't, she clearly states that she is annoyed with Hazuki constantly changing specs and forcing the programming team to work overtime. Yes, Naru seems to care about getting her assigned work done on time, because that is her job. Why wouldn't she get mad at other forcing more work on her just because they didn't get it right the first or second time?

And the thing is, Naru can't even be sure they're evaluating her so heavily on speed. Since she's doing actual work for the game they are making, they might put more emphasis on the total quality of the final product. So she'd be screwing herself by trying to rush out something that ends up being poorly-designed.

Except she wouldn't. She is not the designer, a poorly designed event would solely fall on Hajime. Do you know what would reflect badly on Naru? Only getting one event done in a 3 month span.

... Are you people really debating work place ethics in a place like this?

last edited at Sep 1, 2017 4:37AM

Her entire assignment is to make a minigame to be included in the final product. That is the entirety of what her hiring will be evaluated by. If the minigame ends up being too uninteresting and is cut from the game, she would have failed that assignment in the most literal sense.

Why wouldn't they want to see how well a programmer is able to work with the design team to produce a final product?

If she werent so singlemindedly obsessed with speed, maybe she'd realize there are other ways of looking at it. The mechanics being made more complex just gives her a better chance to show of her coding skill. And that's another thing they might be looking at. Rushing to turn in something really simplistic might not impress them as much as well-coding something much more difficult.

I don't know where you're getting this "only getting one project done is going to ruin her evaluation" thing. At no point did anyone say they'd be graded on how much work they get done. Just on how well they perform on their assigned task.

I was just wondering why people are still defending her...

Then I'm like, "Oh, we haven't released those chapters yet..."

last edited at Sep 1, 2017 6:58AM

I think one comparison we can make is to Shirobako, where one guy who had been burned over the issue of speed vs. quality at his previous job kept getting told off for turning in crappy inbetweens. Granted I don't know what the difference of overall stress is between anime and video game development, but there's always that conflict of balancing making things good and making things fast, as well as the difficulty in remaining professional when something unexpectedly changes.

Every fictional storyworld sets up its own value system. Sometimes that's the same as in the real world, sometimes it's entirely different, and sometimes its the same in some respects and different in others. In the New Game world, working to make the best, most fun game you can is the first priority; work procedures are important as the necessary means to that end, but ultimately secondary to the main goal. Naru doesn't get that yet, and she needs to. (I strongly suspect that she will.)

It's always surprising to me how many people see the story that they want to be there rather than the actual text that is there.

Still, a game designer needs to be able to polish their "blueprint" before having the programmers work on it and not just have them rework all of it after every instance for adjustements that could have been noticed beforehand with just a little bit more time spent on it. In this case, it's kinda like Hajime is an architect who draw a house, then once built, noticed that it was missing a window, then once the window has been added, realized that the size is wrong. ^^;

That she wanted to add something more to the mini-game isn't exactly the issue here. That she asks for a new version before taking the time to figure out as many of the changes that are required and how they might impact the mini-game and the rest of the game is.

Especially since it'll need to be integrated to the rest of the game, so every delay to its completion will have repercutions on the whole game's dev timetable.

last edited at Sep 1, 2017 9:25AM

I'm not sure comparing it to architecture is the best example. Even the best game designers don't always notice everything they could do to improve design until after they've actually tried it out for themselves. And Hajime is still learning.

That's why it seems a safe bet that they were likely given a deadline with a lot of extra leeway in the case they go over.

Her "status" shouldnt mean a damn thing since she is 100% correct. Hajime needed to be told that she had to do her damn job so that the team could move forward. Hajime constantly switching specs while stringing along a coworker is the problem that needed to be addressed, not Naru's attitude. If it were then Umiko would have reprimanded her instead of agreeing

No, that's where you are fundamentally wrong. It is in fact 100% irrelevant if she is right or wrong. A lowly intern on probation getting cocky with hired full time employees and on top of that not being able to work with a team means your out. In any company that relies heavily on teamwork like a gaming company "solo players" are simply not needed. I get it that you really like Naru, but realistically spoken: if she doesn't get her act together no company would hire her after her probation.

Except she wouldn't. She is not the designer, a poorly designed event would solely fall on Hajime. Do you know what would reflect badly on Naru? Only getting one event done in a 3 month span.

Again: I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. Naru has exactly ONE assignment to do at the moment. Her utmost priority is to do THIS assignment an nothing else. Sure, a poorly designed event would fall on Hajime, but I don't see a single reason why not getting done more work in 3 Months would fall on her if the company doesn't assign more work to her. In fact if her colleagues-to-be evaluate her work and all they can tell is that Naru tried to rush through every work assigned to her and not caring about the finished product just to get it done, instead of her finishing her given task(s) with the quality the company is know for - I don't know if THAT'S an evaluation Naru likes to have.

Still, a game designer needs to be able to polish their "blueprint" before having the programmers work on it and not just have them rework all of it after every instance for adjustements that could have been noticed beforehand with just a little bit more time spent on it. In this case, it's kinda like Hajime is an architect who draw a house, then once built, noticed that it was missing a window, then once the window has been added, realized that the size is wrong. ^^;

That she wanted to add something more to the mini-game isn't exactly the issue here. That she asks for a new version before taking the time to figure out as many of the changes that are required and how they might impact the mini-game and the rest of the game is.

Especially since it'll need to be integrated to the rest of the game, so every delay to its completion will have repercutions on the whole game's dev timetable.

To be honest: Hajime felt something is "wrong" with the minievent but couldn't point out what exactly. BUT Naru is the first who found the "error" of the game having only 2 characters playing. Despite the fact it felt wrong to her, she never told anyone and just programmed it anyway. Afterwards, after telling Hajime and co about it she complains about programming it all again. That's not really how teamwork's done.

The second Problem wasn't really a thing before they added more characters. Even Hajime didn't found anything wrong with the second version until Momo mentioned Peco's face being visible. And right after that the conversation between Naru and Momo shows that she really doesn't care about the event anyway and just wants to get it done. Like I've said before: Naru doesn't work for the game, she works solely for her evaluation.

Even the best game designers don't always notice everything they could do to improve design until after they've actually tried it out for themselves.

That's right. And if we think back when Nene was debugging the game: she not only found bugs in the game but she also found many problems with the lore which "should" normally be found by the ones making the game. But i think it's the same phenomenon like writing text - if you work with something for too long, you don't notice small errors anymore.

last edited at Sep 1, 2017 10:25AM