What the hell... I literally just read Amano Shuninta's "Dust that Make Up Our World" yesterday and stopped at the part where Ruki was going after the straight Sachi, and here's Kei going after another straight Sachi...

So let me get this straight. She was using the president girl as a substitute for the guy she was still in love with? President girl realizes this and they break up. President girl starts doing things that the other girl was doing because she still loved her like the other girl loved the guy?

Of course the ambiguity defeats the purpose of the story. Especially when almost every major detail is ambiguous. Why does Kei hate smoking so much and why does she associate it only with men? Is Sachi still dating the guy? Did Sachi ever even date the guy or was it a one sided crush? Why did Sachi vanish for three months and then show up like it was nothing? Where did she even go? Is Kei just a rebound or does Sachi actually love her? Do they actually break up or does Sachi finally feel like she can move on and keep on being with Kei? If the entire plot of the story is left up to individual interpretation then it's not well written.

On the contrary pax reminds me of Hidetaka Miyazaki's story telling(dark souls director) in no way would I ever say his is bad at telling a story quite the opposite. Personally I love it when storys make you participate it makes you more attached to the world if you also created your own interpretation. It makes me more atached to the characters and the world they live in.

Of course the ambiguity defeats the purpose of the story. Especially when almost every major detail is ambiguous. Why does Kei hate smoking so much and why does she associate it only with men? Is Sachi still dating the guy? Did Sachi ever even date the guy or was it a one sided crush? Why did Sachi vanish for three months and then show up like it was nothing? Where did she even go? Is Kei just a rebound or does Sachi actually love her? Do they actually break up or does Sachi finally feel like she can move on and keep on being with Kei? If the entire plot of the story is left up to individual interpretation then it's not well written.

On the contrary pax reminds me of Hidetaka Miyazaki's story telling(dark souls director) in no way would I ever say his is bad at telling a story quite the opposite. Personally I love it when storys make you participate it makes you more attached to the world if you also created your own interpretation. It makes me more atached to the characters and the world they live in.

Except Dark Souls is a video game whose lore is built around the idea of adventuring out in order to find clues to piece it all together. It's a mystery that the players have to choose to engage in or completely miss out on. It's like being a detective or archaeologist. PAX is a two chapter manga that just blatantly leaves out important details and there is absolutely no way for us to figure out what happened. The manga is about these two characters and their relationship and yet after reading it we still don't know anything about it. Their pasts, presents and futures are all left in the dark with no clues for us to find to figure out what the hell even happened.

last edited at Jun 19, 2017 7:10PM

Wouldn't the fact that Sachi is going to buy new headphones and wants to be with Kei while she does so mean that she is giving up on the old love?

Wouldn't the fact that Sachi is going to buy new headphones and wants to be with Kei while she does so mean that she is giving up on the old love?

It very well could, but unfortunately Kei doesn't believe that.

The manga is about these two characters and their relationship and yet after reading it we still don't know anything about it.

We know what the author wanted to convey, which is that Kei believes her partner is emotionally unfaithful to her, and feels sad and lonely. You say over and over again that all the plot points are ambiguous but that's not the case. The details are ambiguous.

Their pasts, presents and futures are all left in the dark with no clues for us to find to figure out what the hell even happened.

For one, there are clues. We can look at Kei's hatred of tobacco smoke, and imagine she had a traumatic experience with a man who smoked tobacco threatening her relationship. We can look at Sachi going to the store to buy new headphones, and infer that she may be trying at a new start with Kei, unbeknownst to Kei. We can look at the last page of Kei smoking a cigarette and glaring into the pitch blackness, and infer that the relationship is ending or at least not going anywhere happy.

I don't love this manga by any means, but there's definitely an intention, a feeling conveyed. Details periphery to that intention being left to the imagination are NOT a sign of an inept writer.

[edit: this is obviously my interpretation and hopefully gets us closer to the truth. There will probably be misinterpretations]

I enjoyed this. It took some time to interpret which is great (more 'show don't tell' please) and the questions asked on here helped piece something together.

So Sachi was missing for three months. We're not given many clues but probably enough. The 'boyfriend' is gone (Sachi talks about how close they were that his smell got into her stuff) and a lot of songs have been written about someone she loves/loved. when they kiss for the first time in the 2nd chapter, Kei notices the tobacco smell is diffrent.

Kei knows Sachi is weak, or rather struggling. And so she takes it upon herself to prove to Sachi she is strong by piercing her ear. She substitutes her ear for Sachi's and later herself for the guy. She doesn't want the piercing nor does she want to smoke. But she is doing these things for Sachi.

In chapter 1 Sachi is singing a song she wrote. Kei tells her to stop smoking (though i don't think Sachi was a smoker since she doesn't taste of it) and Sachi responds that she needs to stop and remembers the 'boyfriend'. There are a number of ways to go but perhaps, just perhaps, she starts letting go of him. Maybe not, though it seems an acknowledgment that it isn't working or cannot work. She is surely not talking about the act of her smoking though.

Sachi decides not to pierce her ears because she has Kei who did it in her stead. She also wants to get new headphones to get rid of the smell. I think Sachi has lingering feelings but wants to get over them. And maybe Kei is just a rebound but Sachi needs her and Kei knows that.

Also, i doubt they seperated. If they did, why is Kei smoking? Kei takes it upon herself to fulfil a position that she thinks Sachi needs. The Devil you know is better than the Devil you don't know? Something about familiarity perhaps.

Anyway, that was heaps of fun. Hopefully i didn't miss anything important.

last edited at Jun 20, 2017 6:06AM

We know what the author wanted to convey, which is that Kei believes her partner is emotionally unfaithful to her, and feels sad and lonely. You say over and over again that all the plot points are ambiguous but that's not the case. The details are ambiguous.

No, we don't know what the author wanted to convey, that's the whole point. You don't know, I don't know, because the story was muddled garbage. The plot is ambiguous. You don't know what is even happening during the events in the manga, for fucks sakes it goes from a random kiss to Sachi missing for three months to them fucking like bunnies, and you don't know how it ends.

For one, there are clues. We can look at Kei's hatred of tobacco smoke, and imagine she had a traumatic experience with a man who smoked tobacco threatening her relationship. We can look at Sachi going to the store to buy new headphones, and infer that she may be trying at a new start with Kei, unbeknownst to Kei. We can look at the last page of Kei smoking a cigarette and glaring into the pitch blackness, and infer that the relationship is ending or at least not going anywhere happy.

If your clues require their own ambiguous interpretation then they are not clues. They are just more bullshit you have to dig through to try to figure out what the hell is going on. Kei hates tobacco, we don't know why she hates it. We don't know how the headphones are connected to her ex-boyfriend, so her buying new ones doesn't have any meaning. Kei smoking while wearing Sachi's headphones doesn't mean anything, it's not a clue. It's a convoluted mess that means nothing. It's the yuri equivalent of throwing a bucket of paint against a canvas and trying to interpret meaning from it. We don't know why she is wearing the headphones, we don't know why she is even smoking. Also, she's not staring into pitch blackness, she is staring at the reader from the corner of her eye.

I don't love this manga by any means, but there's definitely an intention, a feeling conveyed. Details periphery to that intention being left to the imagination are NOT a sign of an inept writer.

When literally every detail is left up to imagination and interpretation then it's a sign of an inept writer. When two polar opposite interpretations are equally plausible then it's a sign that the writer is terrible at conveying whatever intention they had.

We know what the author wanted to convey, which is that Kei believes her partner is emotionally unfaithful to her, and feels sad and lonely. You say over and over again that all the plot points are ambiguous but that's not the case. The details are ambiguous.

No, we don't know what the author wanted to convey, that's the whole point. You don't know, I don't know, because the story was muddled garbage. The plot is ambiguous. You don't know what is even happening during the events in the manga, for fucks sakes it goes from a random kiss to Sachi missing for three months to them fucking like bunnies, and you don't know how it ends.

For one, there are clues. We can look at Kei's hatred of tobacco smoke, and imagine she had a traumatic experience with a man who smoked tobacco threatening her relationship. We can look at Sachi going to the store to buy new headphones, and infer that she may be trying at a new start with Kei, unbeknownst to Kei. We can look at the last page of Kei smoking a cigarette and glaring into the pitch blackness, and infer that the relationship is ending or at least not going anywhere happy.

If your clues require their own ambiguous interpretation then they are not clues. They are just more bullshit you have to dig through to try to figure out what the hell is going on. Kei hates tobacco, we don't know why she hates it. We don't know how the headphones are connected to her ex-boyfriend, so her buying new ones doesn't have any meaning. Kei smoking while wearing Sachi's headphones doesn't mean anything, it's not a clue. It's a convoluted mess that means nothing. It's the yuri equivalent of throwing a bucket of paint against a canvas and trying to interpret meaning from it. We don't know why she is wearing the headphones, we don't know why she is even smoking. Also, she's not staring into pitch blackness, she is staring at the reader from the corner of her eye.

I don't love this manga by any means, but there's definitely an intention, a feeling conveyed. Details periphery to that intention being left to the imagination are NOT a sign of an inept writer.

When literally every detail is left up to imagination and interpretation then it's a sign of an inept writer. When two polar opposite interpretations are equally plausible then it's a sign that the writer is terrible at conveying whatever intention they had.

You seem angry at something if you don't like it you don't need to come here to attempt to silence the people who do enjoy creating theories and never being sure of anything.

Of course the ambiguity defeats the purpose of the story. Especially when almost every major detail is ambiguous. Why does Kei hate smoking so much and why does she associate it only with men? Is Sachi still dating the guy? Did Sachi ever even date the guy or was it a one sided crush? Why did Sachi vanish for three months and then show up like it was nothing? Where did she even go? Is Kei just a rebound or does Sachi actually love her? Do they actually break up or does Sachi finally feel like she can move on and keep on being with Kei? If the entire plot of the story is left up to individual interpretation then it's not well written.

On the contrary pax reminds me of Hidetaka Miyazaki's story telling(dark souls director) in no way would I ever say his is bad at telling a story quite the opposite. Personally I love it when storys make you participate it makes you more attached to the world if you also created your own interpretation. It makes me more atached to the characters and the world they live in.

Except Dark Souls is a video game whose lore is built around the idea of adventuring out in order to find clues to piece it all together. It's a mystery that the players have to choose to engage in or completely miss out on. It's like being a detective or archaeologist. PAX is a two chapter manga that just blatantly leaves out important details and there is absolutely no way for us to figure out what happened. The manga is about these two characters and their relationship and yet after reading it we still don't know anything about it. Their pasts, presents and futures are all left in the dark with no clues for us to find to figure out what the hell even happened.

There's something fun in storytelling you don't need to know about past or future. Again use dark souls even now that we have all the information we will ever get when know nothing about the future of the world and in the past we only know of a few key points and there are about 10 plausible theories. There is no difference between a story told by game, book, manga, cartoon, movie, or word and dark souls and it's story with context locked to it's actual lore and the lore is about what happened but the gaps in time are massive and because how time works in souls it makes people rip their hair out. Also it must be said the complaints thrown at it are unreal considering the number next to it's name is 2 not 20 not 200 just 2 wait for the thing to finish before you get up in arms about a story that has yet to be told.

Oh, yeah I'm so angry that I have to try and silence people by giving my own opinion! I'm a monster. /s

You are just wrong, there is considerable differences between how stories should be told between books, comics, cartoons and games. They are completely different mediums that require different methods. Games, like dark souls, can be successful hiding the story behind random NPC encounters, item descriptions, cutscenes and player choices. That doesn't work in manga or books unless it's a "choose your own adventure" type of deal. Comics and manga rely on art just as much as actual writing, they have the ability to show and not tell, unlike books where they can literally only tell you. Many game developers have hired professional book writers to write their stories and they quickly find out that it's a completely different ball game, especially for open world RPGs

Now about PAX itself, if we don't know the past, can't tell what the hell is going on in the present, and have no clue what's the come in the future it's simply not good writing. It doesn't matter if there is going to be a PAX 3 because what we have seen from the first two chapters is that we won't be able to tell what the hell is going on anyways. It's going to be a convoluted mess that requires the reader to fill in gaps every page because the writer has no idea how to make a coherent story. Once again, this story went from a completely random kiss to Sachi disappearing for three months to them fucking like rabbits with almost nothing said or showed to explain how any of it lead from one to the other. You can argue that we don't need to know about their pasts, you can argue for an open end about the future, but it's hard to argue that we don't need to know anything about the events presented in the manga.

Oh, yeah I'm so angry that I have to try and silence people by giving my own opinion! I'm a monster. /s

You are just wrong, there is considerable differences between how stories should be told between books, comics, cartoons and games. They are completely different mediums that require different methods. Games, like dark souls, can be successful hiding the story behind random NPC encounters, item descriptions, cutscenes and player choices. That doesn't work in manga or books unless it's a "choose your own adventure" type of deal. Comics and manga rely on art just as much as actual writing, they have the ability to show and not tell, unlike books where they can literally only tell you. Many game developers have hired professional book writers to write their stories and they quickly find out that it's a completely different ball game, especially for open world RPGs

I have to agree. It's not like in a game where you can actually explore and interact with the world you're in to put together the story. Manga, on the other hand, needs details because the reader is unable to explore the world to get an answer. And when we get vague details, the reader isn't able to piece the story together.

Now about PAX itself, if we don't know the past, can't tell what the hell is going on in the present, and have no clue what's the come in the future it's simply not good writing. It doesn't matter if there is going to be a PAX 3 because what we have seen from the first two chapters is that we won't be able to tell what the hell is going on anyways. It's going to be a convoluted mess that requires the reader to fill in gaps every page because the writer has no idea how to make a coherent story. Once again, this story went from a completely random kiss to Sachi disappearing for three months to them fucking like rabbits with almost nothing said or showed to explain how any of it lead from one to the other. You can argue that we don't need to know about their pasts, you can argue for an open end about the future, but it's hard to argue that we don't need to know anything about the events presented in the manga.

Re-reading it now, it felt like the author had an idea of what they wanted the story to be about, but ended up adding too much. As a result, they made the story too "Event A happens then Event B happens followed by Event C." This seems more like a first draft of a story, in terms of writing. I don't think we need to know the future of these two characters (I can tolerate open endings), but you're right. We need to know what's happening to the characters in the present because SO MUCH IS GOING ON, but in order to do that, we need to know some backstory, but that's kept vague.

Overall, it was a good effort, but...this author really should've reviewed their storyline a few more times before proceeding with it.

I did not see that coming. I'm fine with it overall.

Meh...

what the actual fuck is this ?!
it left nothing but bitter taste in my mouth

I'm not againts het or anything like that but , I'm here for yuri goddammit! I feel like being deceived facepalm

You should read Happy End by Sukekoro

last edited at Dec 14, 2017 10:26PM

Man, I like some angst but not when the writing is a bit (read: totally) crap. I feel like if the author tried to be less artsy and "deep" this could've been a good read. Disappointing, and not because of the het.

The response to this was exactly what I'd expected. Personally I don't mind the premise, I don't mind angst, cheating and other detestable things but I still expect some coherence, this idk. It was alright, could have been so much better though.