Forum › Netsuzou Trap discussion
I looked through the english copy of vol 1, seems like there are just 4 chapters, chapter 5 being part of vol 2.
Chapter 12 translation.
http://imgur.com/a/XWG7e
that last bit at the end made me laugh
Nice. First Yuma initiated kiss
Yuma being low key possessive is nice too
last edited at Sep 25, 2016 1:59PM
Progress! Woohoo!
Also, Takeda should have moved on a while ago.
Well, Hotaru convinced him he still has a chance, so I don't think that's entirely his fault too. Now obvious thing will be that they will somehow cover it up and make it seem like Hotaru was checking if Yuma was feeling ok. But maybe he will start getting a different development from now on too, and start realising what's going on. But since this is NTR, I don't think he will move on soon, as the whole point of the story is that they NTR their bfs.
I disliked Hotaru in the beggining, but now I find her the most interesting character. I like how, even though she is not the nicest person, you can still see how she cares about Yuma
He's a male character in a yuri manga. He will not get much sympathy from me.
^
As much as I hate heterosexuality in my yuri [and Kodama Naoko's stuff]; I don't get this animosity towards the only [yet] non-fucked up character. Having a Y chromosome doesn't make you a jerk, even if lots of men in yuri are.
And personally speaking, I don't consider this as a yuri. Sure, it involves two girls, but it's way too fucked up, it nearly gives me nausea.
I'll make enemies here, but for me, in this manga, the happiest end would be a het one (and god knows how this line is surprising from me) with Takeda and the dumb blonde-haired girl. The other two manipulative jerks just deserve sorrow and pain.
last edited at Sep 25, 2016 5:12PM
Ah true, wasn't Hotaru trying to fix their relationship?
It's most likely that no but, I wonder if Yuma would be honest about it, admit to Takeda that there has been "stuff" going on. Ever? A lot of chapters later? Soon?
The dirt Fujiwara has on them is mainly dirt cus it'd hurt Takeda, but I guess that like, he could still do messed up shit with it.
And personally speaking, I don't consider this as a yuri. Sure, it involves two girls, but it's way too fucked up
I didn't realise yuri solely involved healthy, happy relationships.
I didn't say I hated Takeda. I just can't give a single fuck about his plight.
Come on... he's got, like, myriads of girls to choose from and if he ever gets in a relationship with one, NOBODY will look at him funny (except maybe if age gap). He's hardly cornered. He just has to move on.
Yuma and Hotaru have something much more precious.
And personally speaking, I don't consider this as a yuri. Sure, it involves two girls, but it's way too fucked up, it nearly gives me nausea.
Well by definition yuri is girl x girl. But I have a question, why do you read this if it makes you feel nauseus?
I didn't realise yuri solely involved healthy, happy relationships.
That's a thing I've noticed in yuri fandom. Some readers can't handle a bit of angst, and even if the story is not bad, it will get labeled as "bad" because it contains stuff that are triggering.
Of course everyone is welcome to feel however they want about certain mangas, but when critising a story, I think we better try to see it from a more objective perspective.
Ah true, wasn't Hotaru trying to fix their relationship?
Yeah she talked with Takeda and told him that Yuma was behaving weird with him because there was another "guy" who liked Yuma. And in that chapter she said that person (obv refering to herself) was given up on trying to pursue Yuma.
But then Yuma kisses her and she can't help it.
Yuma and Hotaru have something much more precious.
I don't think so, but it's a matter of opinion here. I find Hotaru a manipulative and destructive jerk, and I believe nothing good will come from their [unhealthy] relationship in the mid-long run.
Well by definition yuri is girl x girl. But I have a question, why do you read this if it makes you feel nauseus?
I've dropped it; reading the comments is enough to know what happens.
That's a thing I've noticed in yuri fandom. Some readers can't handle a bit of angst, and even if the story is not bad, it will get labeled as "bad" because it contains stuff that are triggering.
Of course everyone is welcome to feel however they want about certain mangas, but when critising a story, I think we better try to see it from a more objective perspective.
How can you apprehend a story purely objectively ? Are you a bot ? While you have to be objective while critising a story, I believe a part of subjectivity is welcomed aswell.
Once again, while I respect the author and acknowledge the quality of their works, I can't bring myself to like them.
As for the angst, there is a difference between good and pertinent angst / drama, and dumb angst just for .. angst ?
That's good angst. Too.
That's bad, or rather useless angst.
I'll end with the absolute line "To each their own". Good for you if you enjoy stories like this. It's just not my cup of tea.
Objectively, everything is enjoyable though.
last edited at Sep 25, 2016 5:50PM
Yeah she talked with Takeda and told him that Yuma was behaving weird with him because there was another "guy" who liked Yuma. And in that chapter she said that person (obv refering to herself) was given up on trying to pursue Yuma.
But then Yuma kisses her and she can't help it.
True, and after chapter 8 Yuma was always the one to go after Hotaru not the other way around, it seemed like Hotaru was really trying to move on, getting a job to get money to move out, being cold to Yuma etc but when she was with Yuma she still teased her a little but didn't go any further which led to Yuma taking the initiative in the last chapter.
He's a male character in a yuri manga. He will not get much sympathy from me.
Even though he is most pure character in this manga.
Why pure?
All Takeda's legit done in the entire series, is be nice, and desperate to get laid. Ofc you can be both nice and horny, one isn't necessarily the motive for the other, but I'm just.. I'm just personally on guard when it concerns him.
If by "pure" you mean innocent, and not as in "untainted", but "not guilty", how he didn't actually do anything backhanded that lead to hurting someone else, then yeah I agree.
But even though action-wise, he never really hurt anyone (I'm considering Yuma being sad/dumped, the consequences of making him feel rejected), I don't really care about him either.
Takeda is the most boring character of them all. He's like a bystander, a casualty from Yuma/Hotaru's mess, it's more what he represents, some kind of generic, plain boyfriend that is second best compared to Hotaru, someone to prove that Hotaru is more important, rather than who he is.
How can you apprehend a story purely objectively ? Are you a bot ? While you have to be objective while critising a story, I believe a part of subjectivity is welcomed aswell.
There is always a personal way to judge a story too, yes. Nothing can be judged 100% objectively. However, some people are just too prejudiced about certain stuff, which is different than simply critising a manga that is bad.
While I believe NTR does have chliches, for example Fujiwara being an asshole, Hotaru being like that with men etc, I believe they are not completely bad because we get some info from them. It explains Hotaru's character in a "show don't tell" technique.
We can see that she is self-destructive. And that she might care about Yuma more than herself, because she doesn't want Yuma to work in that place, while she doesn't care about working there herself.
I certainly didn't like Hotaru at first, but all these details subtly reveal more about her, and that she is not just a jerk, but also has a different side too. Of course that doesn't make her past actions ok, I just think she is more complex than a simply manipulative and bad person, which makes her interesting.
As for Takeda,I believe he does his part pretty good. He is here to show how even though he might be considered a great boyfriend, and even though Yuma knows it, she just can't fall in love with him.
If he was a jerk, we might still be thinking that, what if Yuma found "Mr. Right" who would be a better match for her than Hotaru. But his character is here to emphasise this point exactly. That no matter the guy, Yuma can't fall in love with him. And show the contrast with her when she is with Hotaru versus when she's with him.
He's a male character in a yuri manga. He will not get much sympathy from me.
Even though he is most pure character in this manga.
Why pure?
All Takeda's legit done in the entire series, is be nice, and desperate to get laid. Ofc you can be both nice and horny, one isn't necessarily the motive for the other, but I'm just.. I'm just personally on guard when it concerns him.
If by "pure" you mean innocent, and not as in "untainted", but "not guilty", how he didn't actually do anything backhanded that lead to hurting someone else, then yeah I agree.But even though action-wise, he never really hurt anyone (I'm considering Yuma being sad/dumped, the consequences of making him feel rejected), I don't really care about him either.
Takeda is the most boring character of them all. He's like a bystander, a casualty from Yuma/Hotaru's mess, it's more what he represents, some kind of generic, plain boyfriend that is second best compared to Hotaru, someone to prove that Hotaru is more important, rather than who he is.
You guys just highlighted the reasons I hate this manga.
Hakeda wanted to bang her .. well, because Hotaru did not ? One was behaving as nice as he could to achieve it and because he loved Yuma, the other manipulated her, toyed with her heart and guess who's being praised ?
The Yuma / Hotaru relationship is so unhealthy because Hotaru has a complete control of the so-called relationship. She NTR'd Hakeda and made Yuma fall in love with her (she was not in the beginning) to reject her, move on as @Asukaori stated and she's the one who can decide to put an end or not at the relationship. The two absolutely aren't on an equal footing with each other.
I don't even care about Fujiwara, he can stab himself to death, it wouldn't change anything. I firmly believe the worst is by far Hotaru. She may be more than a simple manipulative and bad person, but it doesn't change how destructive she is, even if she isn't purposely.
Sure, this will probably get a "happy" yuri end where the girls will end up together, but in an unhealthy relationship whence nothing good will come from, because of what I explained above.
99% of time in a yuri manga with het / bi, yuri end is the most suitable and wanted, because it's usually the purest / most honest / where the real love lies. Kodama Naoko just broke this and made the [hated] het ending the best choice; to likely end the story with the yuri end one.
Good job, Kodama ! (This is why I have respect for this author, they really have skill to make nauseus stories. I don't recall any other author this talented to write stories like this. Once again, it's just not my cup of tea).
Edit : Utoptia and Brolquiorra VS the world. United, we stand.
last edited at Sep 25, 2016 7:30PM
He's a male character in a yuri manga. He will not get much sympathy from me.
Even though he is most pure character in this manga.
Why pure?
All Takeda's legit done in the entire series, is be nice, and desperate to get laid. Ofc you can be both nice and horny, one isn't necessarily the motive for the other, but I'm just.. I'm just personally on guard when it concerns him.
If by "pure" you mean innocent, and not as in "untainted", but "not guilty", how he didn't actually do anything backhanded that lead to hurting someone else, then yeah I agree.But even though action-wise, he never really hurt anyone (I'm considering Yuma being sad/dumped, the consequences of making him feel rejected), I don't really care about him either.
Takeda is the most boring character of them all. He's like a bystander, a casualty from Yuma/Hotaru's mess, it's more what he represents, some kind of generic, plain boyfriend that is second best compared to Hotaru, someone to prove that Hotaru is more important, rather than who he is.
So you are saying you won't be horny with someone you love? His action are by far make me think that his gf is a jerk.
You guys just highlighted the reasons I hate this manga.
Hakeda wanted to bang her .. well, because Hotaru did not ? One was behaving as nice as he could to achieve it and because he loved Yuma, the other manipulated her, toyed with her heart and guess who's being praised ?
No one praises Hotaru tbh, mainly, ppl find her chaos interesting.
A fair amount of ppl root for each of them, from what I've seen.
No one is pretending Hotaru's actions aren't a big deal.
The Yuma / Hotaru relationship is so unhealthy because Hotaru has a complete control of the so-called relationship. She NTR'd Hakeda and made Yuma fall in love with her (she was not in the beginning)
That's kind of a bias/stretch isn't it? "Made" her fall in love with her
And I think Kodama's trying to hint that Yuma does hve some feels, but is just really oblivious to them. Something about being bothered when Hotaru gets boyfriends, but not feeling the same kind of discomfort when the other girls did.
In the last chapter, we realise that Yuma is actually kind of possessive or something? (Wow every plot point of this manga just passes right through me, i don't remember details about this at all)
to reject her, move on
She "rejected" her, iirc, because she decided that... Lol i don't remember. Probs cus she thought it'd be best for Yuma, trying to fix things up for her and Takeda and Yuma so she can be happy, trying to move on from the feelings she decided are one-sided.
as @Asukaori stated and she's the one who can decide to put an end or not at the relationship. The two absolutely aren't on an equal footing with each other.
Maybe. But then when Hotaru does try to create distance (with their best interest in mind?) Yuma followed. Wtv Hotaru feels is best, she decides with both of them in mind, probably lol. She's not just toying and then dumping Yuma. Idk/didn't read Asukaori's post, but it's clear to me that, wtv the complications of their friendship, wtv emotions there are that they haven't shared with each other, they both care deeply about one another.
Takeda (tfw you forget the one "nice" character's name, because he's just that impressionable) can leave. Yuma and Takeda could have broken up whenever. Ofc, friendships end too, but whatever distance there was between Yuma and Hotaru, someone would close the distance and theyd talk again, worry about each other again.
Like ofc their friendship is far from ideal, but one thing i realised just now, is that at least, they care and look out for each other, and that's probs the most positive thing in the manga.
I don't even care about Fujiwara, he can stab himself to death, it wouldn't change anything. I firmly believe the worst is by far Hotaru. She may be more than a simple manipulative and bad person, but it doesn't change how destrutive she is, even if she isn't purposely.
Sure, this will probably get a "happy" yuri end where the girls will end up together, but in an unhealthy relationship whence nothing good will come from, because of what I explained above.
They likely won't get together if itll just be destructive and unhealthy. I know Hotaru straight up sexually harrasses her and plays it off because "they're both girls its okay", but i don't remember Hotaru actually doing anything to hurt Yuma... Right? >_>
I just have a feeling that if they get together, itll be after at least some development. I'm probs being optimistic here, but I'd like to believe that if they do date, itll be after they grow or something, rolls eyes
Aaahhh the sort of plot this is... Drama, angst, cheating, blackmail.
I can't tell if its a story that'll show eventual progress, or just ppl sinking deeper and deeper into bullshit and angst, but its not like we lost anything tbh. Idk if anyone has that high of expectations for this
So you are saying you won't be horny with someone you love? His action are by far make me think that his gf is a jerk.
Its that sort of doubt you have, when you aren't exactly sure if he loves her, or just wants to lose his virginity. Love and lust as different ideas by the way. I disliked him because well, ofc he's the foil of a yuri end, if you root for the yuri end, but also cus his intentions could be ambiguous. When Yuma seemed uncomfortable to sleep with him, you could interpret his reaction afterwards as pain from being rejected by his gf, or sulking cus she wasn't as eager as he was.
I'm not saying he's a bad person, i just don't really like him, and he's uninteresting. He also has the plainest character design to boot.
So you are saying you won't be horny with someone you love? His action are by far make me think that his gf is a jerk.
Its that sort of doubt you have, when you aren't exactly sure if he loves her, or just wants to lose his virginity. Love and lust as different ideas by the way. I disliked him because well, ofc he's the foil of a yuri end, if you root for the yuri end, but also cus his intentions could be ambiguous. When Yuma seemed uncomfortable to sleep with him, you could interpret his reaction afterwards as pain from being rejected by his gf, or sulking cus she wasn't as eager as he was.
I'm not saying he's a bad person, i just don't really like him, and he's uninteresting. He also has the plainest character design to boot.
Well i guess everyone to their own taste but i kinda think he is undeservingly getting that backlash of yuri genre.
So you are saying you won't be horny with someone you love? His action are by far make me think that his gf is a jerk.
Its that sort of doubt you have, when you aren't exactly sure if he loves her, or just wants to lose his virginity. Love and lust as different ideas by the way. I disliked him because well, ofc he's the foil of a yuri end, if you root for the yuri end, but also cus his intentions could be ambiguous. When Yuma seemed uncomfortable to sleep with him, you could interpret his reaction afterwards as pain from being rejected by his gf, or sulking cus she wasn't as eager as he was.
I'm not saying he's a bad person, i just don't really like him, and he's uninteresting. He also has the plainest character design to boot.Well i guess everyone to their own taste but i kinda think he is undeservingly getting that backlash of yuri genre.
i think people are just tired of the bullshit that happens in yuri .