Forum › Definition of Yuri. What it is and what isn't.

Kururi
joined Aug 25, 2015

True they never said they're straight, but you know what? That's how the world works, homosexuals are the minority, most people and characters are considered straight by default, yuri and yaoi are the only genres we can expect homosexual characters in mangas, this is a slice of life so acting gayish is not the same as being gay, true they didn't say they're straight but the only reason people are considering them more gay is because of the kisses, take that away and it's as gay as any other slice of life with obviously straight girls, and about Ichinose saying things about them being a couple? Would not be the first straight character to joke like that, sorry if you feel offended by what I said but I'm just trying to be realistic here, believing without a doubt that they're completely gays after only 6 chapters is a recipe for disappointment if the manga ends with them being nothing more than friends.

Don't worry, I wouldn't feel offended by a fictional story that I didn't even write. It's not even close to be one of my favorites.
I just to feel the reaction people here have with these kind of manga is exagerated.
You're right that most people are straight, but you know what? We are talking about a media that sometimes makes every character gay. We are talking about a media that's about escapism with no compromise to reality to begin with...Remember, we're talking about a manga where girls can swap bodies by kissing.
There's a lot of slice of life that put male love interest to girls, or at least makes them interested in boys. When they don't do that, they clearly wants you to see it as you want. They're not supposed to be straight, they're not supposed to be lesbians either. They're supposed to be cute girls doing cute things. Everything else is up to reader's interpretation.

I'm expecting them to end nothing more than friends since the beggining, actually, because this is a gag manga. I expect Shinozaki to end the same way, and she's pretty gay. I'm also expecting that every character in Gintama will end up as just friends. Japan usually avoids romance in comedy stories. They have to maintain the status quo.

Anyway, in the end you seeing them as straight girls and people seeing them as lesbian are both wrong and right. They're neither. They are what you want them to be.
It's just...seeing this kind of conversation everytime a SoL story like this shows up is kind tiring.

Btw...Swap Swap's author isn't even an het author. She pretty much only did yaoi before. I don't think she's hypocrite enough to think only man can be gay.

last edited at Dec 22, 2015 6:31PM

F4x-3lwx0aa0tcu31
joined Apr 20, 2013

These girls never say they're straight, to begin with. You're just assuming they are because they're never saying that they're lesbians. That kind of view is way more heteronormative than the manga itself.

It's okay if I quote you on this alone? because is pretty related to my problem with most yuri works. Yeah they don't talk about their preferences, they just fall in love and we assume that they're lesbian and there was no need to say it/nobody asked... Or we assume that they live in a world where it doesn't matter, where the word homosexual doesn't exist, the closer we'll get is "B-But we're both girls...." in some cases. One case to show how stuuuuuuupid this practice can be would be Sakura Trick... The main characters are gay as wet spaghetti, oh but they don't know what they're doing huh? what could it be... hmmm the word escapes me Haruka, I give up! FUCK the line between making a naive character and dumb character is jumped in olympic levels. Even if we have a side serious couple (although they didn't use that word) in the series, you'll always have that fear that yeah they might end together but they can also say "Oh yeah those days... we were just fooling around".

Can I have something like Love Stage with girls?

Okay... Guys I'm done, that was all I wanted to say about it, I feel lighter

Kururi
joined Aug 25, 2015

Even if we have a side serious couple (although they didn't use that word) in the series, you'll always have that fear that yeah they might end together but they can also say "Oh yeah those days... we were just fooling around".

Is it different if they call themselves lesbians?
They can just grow up and think: "Oh, yeah, those days I fooling around calling myself a lesbian", or "Oh yeah, those days I thought I was a lesbian".
Again, everything that isn't in the story depends on your interpretation. If you became paranoid, nothing will matter.

Sakura Trick is pretty badly written, though.

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

MelonBun posted:

believing without a doubt that they're completely gays after only 6 chapters is a recipe for disappointment if the manga ends with them being nothing more than friends.

There's a really easy solution here, just don't expect a romantic conclusion, because the manga is honestly not a romance. You can assume the characters are gay even if they never make that conclusion for you, things don't have to spelled out for the reader. In the first place this is a gag manga at it's core, so being this paranoid is just ridiculous. SOL with straight characters doesn't have to end with them hooking up even when there's romantic subtext, you wouldn't default to assuming they're gay.

I don't expect romantic conclusions, specially from slice of life, but you know what most people do when they see a gay character? They assume it is yuri and if it don't end in relationship they feell they have been betrayed, Stretch is best example of that, Ran is obviously gay for Keiko, the manga was never meant to be yuri but people expected it anyway, because that's the logic of a lot of them:

  1. sees subtext between characters
  2. assumes one or both is gay or knows at least one is gay
  3. starts to call the manga yuri
  4. ??????
  5. becomes disappointed when the yuri that was never promised didn't happens

Some people take subtext as proof that it's going to be yuri, if it have a character that it is gay they pretty much take for granted a yuri ending, a good example of that is Working!! in that Yachiyo had romantic feelings for Kyouko but neither of them were gay, Kyouko never paid attention to her feelings and she's the only woman Yachiyo ever felt attracted because she was saved by her when she was young, it was not a surprise at all when Yachiyo ended with that guy.

Wtv posted:

Anyway, in the end you seeing them as straight girls and people seeing them as lesbian are both wrong and right. They're neither. They are what you want them to be.
It's just...seeing this kind of conversation everytime a SoL story like this shows up is kind tiring.

I won't quote everything but I agree with what you said, at least Ichinose I admit and even expect to later be confirmed she's actually gay, but in most cases they never confirm anything and all interpretations are actually valid, the reason this conversation happens with every slice of life is because like I said before, people takes for granted something that was never going to happen, slice of lice suffers that because most of it involve girls acting gayish and people think yuri will happen.

Btw...Swap Swap's author isn't even an het author. She pretty much only did yaoi before. I don't think she's hypocrite enough to think only man can be gay.

True, I read those yaois she made, they're not just yaoi but trap yaoi, it's the only reason I really believe we can hope Swap might become yuri, but I still don't want to hope because they can easily end with nothing happening.

Thanks for what you said Serenata, that's pretty much what I wanted to say about how we expect yuri just to be disappointed.

Wtv posted:

Even if we have a side serious couple (although they didn't use that word) in the series, you'll always have that fear that yeah they might end together but they can also say "Oh yeah those days... we were just fooling around".

Is it different if they call themselves lesbians?
They can just grow up and think: "Oh, yeah, those days I fooling around calling myself a lesbian", or "Oh yeah, those days I thought I was a lesbian".
Again, everything that isn't in the story depends on your interpretation. If you became paranoid, nothing will matter.

Sakura Trick is pretty badly written, though.

I believe the problem is not that some become paranoid but that some people insist non stop certain manga is yuri or that will definitely end in yuri that it hits a nerve for some people, that's why some start to become paranoid and start the discussion again instead of just enjoying the manga for what it is and stop putting expectations on it, and about what Serenata said, I think she meant that in-story, when in the ending they disregard everything as fooling around, slife of life that is default, it's rare when they take all the gay moments serious, as for that in yuri, I don't think we could call yuri a manga with that kind of ending.

And on Sakura Trick, I maintain my theory that those girls are "special" in a mentally challenged way, really, they live in what seens to be a perfectly normal world, there's a limit on how innocent a character can be without being completely unrealistic, but if you stop to see it as the love story of two mentally challenged girls, it all makes sense.

Sorry for the late post and if it any part of don't seens to make sense or feel incomplete, had a little blackout here so I kind of lost my line of thought.

last edited at Dec 22, 2015 10:11PM

Kira%202
joined Nov 29, 2014

Woah, you went full on discussion in here. I really don't feel like participating in all of it but I'd like to point out that male and female homosexuality aren't treated the same in media a lot of the time. Just watch Faking It, made by a gay man so he should kind of be more understanding, right? Still men are either straight or gay while women are straight or bi. Except for the biphobic girlfriend, of course. Until too many people complained about it and he included bi guys.
And I've never seen a gay guy be turned straight by a woman.

last edited at Dec 22, 2015 10:03PM

Solid%20ice%20heart%203-29-15
joined Mar 30, 2015

yuri (ū'rē) n. 1 the mutual or one-sided attraction or love between females 2 a genre of anime, manga, or other media that contains it [Y-] 3 a given Japanese female name meaning 'lily' 4 a given Russian male name meaning 'farmer'

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Woah, you went full on discussion in here. I really don't feel like participating in all of it but I'd like to point out that male and female homosexuality aren't treated the same in media a lot of the time. Just watch Faking It, made by a gay man so he should kind of be more understanding, right? Still men are either straight or gay while women are straight or bi. Except for the biphobic girlfriend, of course. Until too many people complained about it and he included bi guys.
And I've never seen a gay guy be turned straight by a woman.

Gay men have famously been, shall we say not the best allies to the B and T parts of the acronym. Which is where the gag that it's actually the GGG(L) community comes from. So none of that about Faking It really surprises me.

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

OriginalGengar posted:

Woah, you went full on discussion in here. I really don't feel like participating in all of it but I'd like to point out that male and female homosexuality aren't treated the same in media a lot of the time. Just watch Faking It, made by a gay man so he should kind of be more understanding, right? Still men are either straight or gay while women are straight or bi. Except for the biphobic girlfriend, of course. Until too many people complained about it and he included bi guys.

True, can't argue with that, go search yaoi in any reader and you can see how they're treated different, but most yaoi you're going to find are the bad yaoi, when I compare male and female homosexuality in manga, yaoi and yuri in this case, I tend to ignore those bad yaois because they don't do justice to the genre, they're pretty much nothing more than something to satisfy the fetish of straight woman, when I think about yaoi I prefer the mangas that are like yuri, that are about their feelings and life, that tries to make real characters instead of simple jerk seme and innocent uke cliches.

I'm always in full discussion mode, if I know about the subject I discuss pretty much anything.

And I've never seen a gay guy be turned straight by a woman.

I don't believe anyone can be turned regardless of sexuality, if they turn they're either lying to themselves or they're actually bisexual, althouh I believe it is possible for some people to fall in love with someone of the oposite/same sex and remain gay/straight, but it would be something rare that probably won't work for more than obvious reasons.

Nezchan posted:

Gay men have famously been, shall we say not the best allies to the B and T parts of the acronym. Which is where the gag that it's actually the GGG(L) community comes from. So none of that about Faking It really surprises me.

I think the problem is men itself, don't matter the sexuality but it seens men in general tends to be less understanding of other groups so I'm not surprised that G men are bad allies to B and T, but they're good allies to L? And are L good allies to B and T? And on the subject of B and T, don't know how it is today but from what I remember reading on LGBT it seens B and T tends to suffer some prejudice from some L and G people and groups, for the obvious foolish reason that for some T are not real man or woman and that B either don't exist or think they're traitors to L or G because they can go both ways, specially if B ends with someone of the opposite sex, that's what annoys me with LGBT groups, instead of all coming together for a common cause some insist in having prejudice between themselves.

Solid Ice posted:

yuri (ū'rē) n. 1 the mutual or one-sided attraction or love between females 2 a genre of anime, manga, or other media that contains it [Y-] 3 a given Japanese female name meaning 'lily' 4 a given Russian male name meaning 'farmer'

For me about genre yuri is only 1, but it seens there's still people who don't understands that yuri is homosexual attraction or love between females and think yuri can be platonic straight friendship too.

last edited at Dec 22, 2015 10:55PM

Kira%202
joined Nov 29, 2014

Gay men have famously been, shall we say not the best allies to the B and T parts of the acronym.

Well, from what I've heard quite a few lesbians are pretty intolerant towards those two acronyms too. But yeah, I stand by what I said but I picked a pretty shitty example.

I don't believe anyone can be turned regardless of sexuality,

Not the point, I was talking about media representation. And I'm not gonna start a discussion on your second point.

For me about genre yuri is only 1,

Clearly it's 4.

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

OriginalGengar posted:

I don't believe anyone can be turned regardless of sexuality,

Not the point, I was talking about media representation. And I'm not gonna start a discussion on your second point.

Ah, of course, sorry, well that's expected because a lot of writters, specially male, are a bunch of morons who don't know anything about sexuallity and don't even try to make at least a little research as to not do those really dumb mistakes, when they don't do that on purpose of course.

For me about genre yuri is only 1,

Clearly it's 4.

Obviously they're all wrong, yuri is nothing more than lilies.

last edited at Dec 22, 2015 11:22PM

Kira%202
joined Nov 29, 2014

Ah, of course, sorry, well that's expected because a lot of writters, specially male, are a bunch of morons who don't know anything about sexuallity and don't even try to make at least a little research as to not do those really dumb mistakes, when they don't do that on purpose of course.

Pretty sure a lot of it is on purpose. Like, pretty much every lesbian on NBC has sex with a man at one point. Appeals to the straight guy audience which is a big part of the ratings. I think it's more about the media representation of women and men in general. Though that's also kind of sidetracking the thread. So I'm just gonna go and punch people in their respective genitals in Saints Row now.

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

OriginalGengar posted:

Pretty sure a lot of it is on purpose. Like, pretty much every lesbian on NBC has sex with a man at one point. Appeals to the straight guy audience which is a big part of the ratings. I think it's more about the media representation of women and men in general. Though that's also kind of sidetracking the thread. So I'm just gonna go and punch people in their respective genitals in Saints Row now.

True, when it's a supposedly lesbian wanting to have sex with a man it's probably always on purpose, then we discover she was actually bisexual instead of lesbian, of course only reason they never said that is to satisfy male fetish of sleeping with a lesbian, it's aparently what they did with in Hannibal, but when it's man I guess it's more in the lines he just didn't find the right woman, unless it's two man wanting threesome with a woman, then it's obviously fanservice for female audience to self insert themselves.

Saints Row eh? You made me remember I still need to play Gat Out of Hell, I wonder if they'll ever make another SR.

Norainhere Uploader
2hu%20cats
joined Jun 27, 2014

True, when it's a supposedly lesbian wanting to have sex with a man it's probably always on purpose, then we discover she was actually bisexual instead of lesbian, of course only reason they never said that is to satisfy male fetish of sleeping with a lesbian, it's aparently what they did with in Hannibal, but when it's man I guess it's more in the lines he just didn't find the right woman, unless it's two man wanting threesome with a woman, then it's obviously fanservice for female audience to self insert themselves.

That's the sort of thing that really annoys me about writing bisexual characters. While there are some good bisexual characters out there, a lot of the time their sexuality seems to have been sort-of shoehorned on as a way of making them not really gay. Like if they were written as bi then that's a whole different thing, but it seems that much of the time they're made out to be lesbian for fetishistic reasons. Does that make sense?

And it's situations like those that are annoyingly common that give bisexual characters something of a bad rep in general. Of course, I may be totally wrong about this, that's how I see it.

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

Yes it makes sense, not only to satisfy fetish of a girl that is suposedly lesbian sleeping with a guy but fetish that if she's bi you can get a threesome, or that maybe she was not completely bisexual yet and the guy turned her, if they don't do for fetish they do just to say they have a LGBT character and in the end they have a excuse to not make character have relationship with opposite sex, even if the girl don't end with someone she'll have romance with one of the important male characters, besides that relationship they make she make out with countless girls just for fanservice which makes the relationship with the guy be the only real one while with girls it's all meaningless, there's more reasons but I don't remember any now cause I'm sleepy, point is most bisexual characters are either for fetish or to try make LGBT people happy, because of that they're pretty much always poorly made and don't feel like real bisexual, a lot is more like a bi-curious straight person than anything since sometimes the only serious relationship they have is with opposite sex.

As for reputation, I would say only half because of fiction, even though there's a lot of bad bisexual character a lot of people are bisexual but uses that just to sleep around, although you could argue some are just bisexual but not biromantic, in the end the damage is already done, thanks to that minority of people who are bisexual or bi-curious that sleeps with anyone straight people thinks bisexual = slut, by slut I mean both man and woman, and gay people think bisexual is someone who can't be trusted and will be cheated, but of course there's other factors like people who believe bisexual don't exist, ignorance from people who never met a really bisexual person, you could list more reasons but bad portrait of LGBT person just helps to mantain those stereotypes which is why those reputations persist as if they're the norm instead of a minority inside a minority, if they're really bisexual of course, like I said some are probably just bi-curious and it's not really the same thing.

That made me remember a movie about a lesbian couple and the story was about one cheating by sleeping with a guy, which means they say the movie is about lesbian couple when it's actually a lesbian and a bisexual woman, they love to disguise the bisexual woman in the couple cause lesbian couple sounds better and makes easier to sell to LGBT community, that is until she sleeps with a guy, they lose sales to LGBT but win sales with straight males.

last edited at Dec 23, 2015 3:53AM

Kururi
joined Aug 25, 2015

That made me remember a movie about a lesbian couple and the story was about one cheating by sleeping with a guy, which means they say the movie is about lesbian couple when it's actually a lesbian and a bisexual woman, they love to disguise the bisexual woman in the couple cause lesbian couple sounds better and makes easier to sell to LGBT community, that is until she sleeps with a guy, they lose sales to LGBT but win sales with straight males.

Isn't it The Kids Are All Right? That movie was actually made by a lesbian director.
I thought it was pretty stupid. The other woman even asks: "What? You're straight now?". They don't even consider bissexuality there.

Anyway, I think that even the concept of self insert didn't exist, most stories would be way better.
I hate this concept, not just because of things talked here. It makes everything worse and stupidier. Like making Mary Sue and Gary Stu protagonists to appeal to the viewers ego.
It's one of the things I hate the most in video-games.

last edited at Dec 23, 2015 8:37AM

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

I made a quick search and yeah it's that movie, I didn't expect it to be made by a lesbian, Lisa Cholodenko, but it was not written all by her, she wrote with Stuart Blumberg so I guess maybe that explain the stupid parts, but besides the cheating is the movie good? It supposedly got universal acclaim from critics and in Metascore is 86, I guess the biggest problem is that like most media they basically ignored the existence of bissexuality, because the character was definitely not lesbian if she slept with that guy so easily.

Although without concept of self insert maybe fiction would be better overral I don't think that is the problem, any kind of character could be used for self insert but they almost always use Mary Sue and Martin Stu, japanese fiction is the worst offender in that regard, most shounens use idiot hero that starts as a nobody but become the most powerful person in the world while shoujo is a plain girl that all hot guys fall in love with and later she discover she's actually beautiful, Visual Novels are even worse as a lot of times there's not even a character, no appearance or voice just choices to make, but there is some examples of possible self insert made right, BioWare games is probably the best example of that, Mass Effect and Dragon Age for example, if you want you can easily self insert yourself as the characters, but they also give enough story, choices and depth that even if you self insert yourself it's obvious that no matter how much you imagine yourself in their place you're not Commander Shepard, The Warden, Hawke or The Inquisitor and will definitely never be them, but in video games at least I guess that's a little expected, some types of game there's just no way to make a character with depth so one way or other they end bland and easy for self insert.

I think the worst examples ever of self insert that I can think are probably Twilight and Fifty Shades of Grey, Bella is pretty much Stephenie Meyer self inserting herself in the story, aparently it's the same with Ana and E. L. James, they're basically typical desire of some woman of having relationship with some kind of bad boy or tortured dangerous man as both books are pretty much glorified abusive relationships where in the end they healed those men and they're a better person, they also spend a good amount of the story describing them without shirt or naked and how sexy and hot they are, not to mention the characters themselves are overral pretty bland, specially the protagonists who are basically Mary Sues, I don't consider them book, for me they're nothing more than glorified fanfic, although I have to admit, I watched 2 or 3 of the Twilight movies and I kind of enjoyed it, maybe because it don't look so much like fanfic, but you can judge me, it's alright, I have shame in my guilty pleasure...

I think the biggest problem for fiction in general is not if the character is made for self insert or not, but that a lot of readers, viewers and gamers simple can't like the works for what they are, they need to identify themselves with the characters so a lot of creators don't have a choice but make a character people can sympathize with in one way or other and a lot of times that affect the quality of their works, so even if the character was never made for self insert some end up like that anyway because the creator didn't made how the character truly is but made someone people can like, anti-heroes, anti-villains, villain protagonists and others like that are good examples of kind of character a good amount of people hate because they can't identify themselves with even though that was never the purpose of the story or the character.

Okay... I'm the only one who think maybe this post was unnecessarily big?

last edited at Dec 23, 2015 1:27PM

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

[...] because the character was definitely not lesbian if she slept with that guy so easily.

What. Haven't seen the movie, but if she identifies as lesbian, she's lesbian, that simple.

[...] anti-heroes, anti-villains, villain protagonists and others like that are good examples of kind of character a good amount of people hate because they can't identify themselves with even though that was never the purpose of the story or the character.

Alternatively, they hate 'em because they identify with 'em. It's not easy to see the things you hate about yourself on others.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

The thing is, most villains in japanese manga/anime are multi-faceted. They are rarely villains "just because", but they have reasons (love, tragic past, mommy issues, whatever...). So, the villains there are made to be liked to some extent, because nothing is more boring than a villain who just wants to rule the world.

And what's this about self-inserts? Do all these women who love yaoi want to be a guy and XXX another guy? Do the male yuri fans want to be schliked by a girl?

And where's the yuri in all this?

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

[...] because the character was definitely not lesbian if she slept with that guy so easily.

What. Haven't seen the movie, but if she identifies as lesbian, she's lesbian, that simple.

Yeah she identify herself as lesbian but how many lesbians you know that cheated on their wife by sleeping several times with a man? From my understanding a lesbian would never sleep with a man several times, would actually not sleep with any man at all, specially if they're in a relationship with another woman, obviously it's just my opinion but even if she calls herself lesbian for me she's actually bissexual.

[...] anti-heroes, anti-villains, villain protagonists and others like that are good examples of kind of character a good amount of people hate because they can't identify themselves with even though that was never the purpose of the story or the character.

Alternatively, they hate 'em because they identify with 'em. It's not easy to see the things you hate about yourself on others.

Good point, I forgot about that detail, or the person don't have any taste and no understanding of how stories work and just think they're bad and are trying to be edge and dark, like it was discussed in Happy Sugar Life thread, there's other reasons but I can't remember them now.

last edited at Dec 23, 2015 1:49PM

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

The thing is, most villains in japanese manga/anime are multi-faceted. They are rarely villains "just because", but they have reasons (love, tragic past, mommy issues, whatever...). So, the villains there are made to be liked to some extent, because nothing is more boring than a villain who just wants to rule the world.

Even if they're not made to be liked villains in general tend to be better than heroes, good is dumb after all.

And what's this about self-inserts? Do all these women who love yaoi want to be a guy and XXX another guy? Do the male yuri fans want to be schliked by a girl?

Rather than be a guy I would say a lot of those woman would like to self insert themselves between the guys and have a threesome, as for me at least, I would very much like to be a girl and lesbian but not because of the sex

And where's the yuri in all this?

Yuri has left the thread.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

SCREW YOU GUYS, I'M GONNA MAKE MY OWN DEFINITION OF YURI!

WITH HOOKERS! AND BLACKJACK!

IN FACT, FORGET THE YURI!

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Rather than be a guy I would say a lot of those woman would like to self insert themselves between the guys and have a threesome, as for me at least, I would very much like to be a girl and lesbian but not because of the sex

I'm not sure yaoi fans read it that way.

I know a lot of yaoi fans, some of them are lesbians and they just enjoy it for the kink and for the relationships descriptions.

And well, if you identify as a girl, nothing keeps you from being a lesbian.

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

[...] because the character was definitely not lesbian if she slept with that guy so easily.

What. Haven't seen the movie, but if she identifies as lesbian, she's lesbian, that simple.

Yeah she identify herself as lesbian but how many lesbians you know that cheated on their wife by sleeping several times with a man? From my understanding a lesbian would never sleep with a man several times, would actually not sleep with any man at all, specially if they're in a relationship with another woman, obviously it's just my opinion but even if she calls herself lesbian for me she's actually bissexual.

What makes her a lesbian is having enduring attraction exclusively (or extremely biased towards, maybe) girls. You can suppose she's also attracted to men (in general), but the only one who'd be able to say it for certain is herself. Supposing a woman in much less tolerant centuries who was attracted to females but who married a man and had sex (exclusively, possibly) with him wouldn't be straight nor bisexual.

last edited at Dec 23, 2015 1:54PM

Ratana%20avatar%203.3%20dynasty
joined May 11, 2012

Rather than be a guy I would say a lot of those woman would like to self insert themselves between the guys and have a threesome, as for me at least, I would very much like to be a girl and lesbian but not because of the sex

I'm not sure yaoi fans read it that way.

I know a lot of yaoi fans, some of them are lesbians and they just enjoy it for the kink and for the relationships descriptions.

Of course a lot read because they really enjoy it, but let's not be prudes, just like a lot of man read mangas for the fanservice, be them yuri or not, a lot of woman do the same for yaoi and non yaoi mangas.

And well, if you identify as a girl, nothing keeps you from being a lesbian.

My genitalia says otherwise.

What makes her a lesbian is having enduring attraction exclusively (or extremely biased towards, maybe) girls. You can suppose she's also attracted to men (in general), but the only one who'd be able to say it for certain is herself. Supposing a woman in much less tolerant centuries who was attracted to females but who married a man and had sex (exclusively, possibly) with him wouldn't be straight nor bisexual.

But like I said it's just my opinion, I'm just supposing that she's actually bissexual and obviously that opinion is only about the movie, in real life things are a lot more complex and we can't really assume anything at all, as for the example you used, in that case she would definitely be lesbian even if she had sex with man, but in that kind of period she would probably have no choice but marry a man, which is not the case for the movie as she chose to cheat on her wife with a man, she decided to sleep with a man because she wanted.

last edited at Dec 23, 2015 2:06PM

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

[...] in that case she would definitely be lesbian even if she had sex with man, but in that kind of period she would probably have no choice but marry a man, which is not the case for the movie as she chose to cheat on her wife with a man, she decided to sleep with a man because she wanted.

I was only using it to illustrate a point: it's about your desire, not exactly who you're sleeping with. Since we have no direct access to other people's head, they could be sleeping with someone of the opposite sex while fantasizing sexing one of the same sex. Or vice-versa.

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