No no, lesbian porn only when it's real people, in manga it's always yuri unless it involve a penis, unless the penis belongs to the girl, than it can be called yuri, althought it's not yuri but futa.

So what would you call that manga about the guy who gets turned into a girl and then starts having sex with a dickgirl?

No no, lesbian porn only when it's real people, in manga it's always yuri unless it involve a penis, unless the penis belongs to the girl, than it can be called yuri, althought it's not yuri but futa.

So what would you call that manga about the guy who gets turned into a girl and then starts having sex with a dickgirl?

Hentai?

Well, live-action porn involving lesbians I'd probably call "lesbian porn", especially if it's made in the West. Sounds legit.

As to something like say, this, I see nothing at all wrong with using both terms to apply to it.

Yuri can be anything involving two girls close, just lesbian, just subtext, or nothing at all, yuri potential is endless.

In practice, I'd say that's pretty consistent. It's two girls in a romantic and/or sexual context, or subtext suggesting same, normally produced in Japan or surrounding regions in comic or animated form, although the latter is less common. Although I would imagine that live-action stuff like Transit Girls would also be considered yuri over there.

none posted:

When I said "same thing", I didn't mean the Japanese definition of the word "shoujo-ai" which I know is NOT the same as yuri and means "liking young girls", sorry for the confusion.

I commend you for derailing the thread at post #4. That was a noteworthy performance.

But let's get back on the yuri track!

Don't worry, someone'll bring the shōjo-ai thing again on page 2 or 3.

And it shall be done!

It seens even sites who tag shoujo ai and yuri are not sure which one to use, Girl Friends for example is tagged both as shoujo ai and yuri, but if shoujo ai = safe and yuri = adult/sex, then shoujo ai =/= yuri, how does that even work?

Nya-chan posted:

So we all agree that yuri comes exclusively from Japan and that anything else is just a cheap imitation.

I'm looking at you, FF, Lily Love and Tamen De Gushi.

See? I can do it too.

moguTL posted:

No no, lesbian porn only when it's real people, in manga it's always yuri unless it involve a penis, unless the penis belongs to the girl, than it can be called yuri, althought it's not yuri but futa.

So what would you call that manga about the guy who gets turned into a girl and then starts having sex with a dickgirl?

A guy becoming a girl is nothing more than transcendence to a higher existence, penis for a futa is just a fun extra during sex, in the end with penis or without penis they're always a girl at heart, not to mean the future of human race, who needs man or woman when we can have the best of both, everything of a woman and penis from man, let's be honest, takes away a man penis and he's worthless~~, womans are all that matter!

last edited at Dec 21, 2015 3:44PM

moguTL posted:

Just that, since it wasn't really created for the purpose of being a yuri story, taking it as representative of yuri in general and discussing yuri as a genre based on it doesn't really make sense.

Does anybody here says it? We don't say "Look! It is the perfect example of Yuri! Every story should be like that!". We just say "Look! It is funny and they are deliciously gay to boot! It would be nice if main leads at least become a couple".

Absolutely. Swap ⇔ Swap was only a trigger, but in fact every comedic/subtext/service yuri without a proper romance could have triggered that discussion. I guess.

But to respond more specifically to what moguTL said, it's true that Swap ⇔ Swap wasn't published in a yuri magazine. But there is a tons of yuri that aren't published in yuri magazine either.
It would be better to see, if Swap ⇔ Swap was created with yuri in mind, with an afterword. Maybe latter.

I say this, because you can find very similar works in yuri magazines, for example Inugami-san and Nekoyama-san, which is also a comedic yuri without a proper romance, but is published in Yuri Hime. So I don't see the issue with Swap ⇔ Swap considered as a yuri (that, and also because Swap ⇔ Swap is very heavy on kissing and boobs-groping between girls :p)

And speaking of Inu & neko, and continuing about the different interpretations about the word "yuri" between Japan/West:
In France, we have a double-editor; Taifu who publish the yuri/yaoi manga. And Ototo who publish the "generalist manga" (shōjo, shōnen, seinen).

Inu & Neko was published by Ototo (as a "seinen", even if Yuri Hime is more female-oriented (and thus shōjo/josei) than male…), and when we questioned them about why it was published by Ototo and not Taifu, they responded that because it's not a romance/porn, and thus not a yuri.

I find it a little surrealist that a manga published in Yuri Hime isn't considered "yuri" by some, but whatever. :D

last edited at Dec 21, 2015 3:47PM

So we all agree that yuri comes exclusively from Japan and that anything else is just a cheap imitation.

I'm looking at you, FF, Lily Love and Tamen De Gushi.

See? I can do it too.

Acceptable, YMMV about the "cheap" part regarding each one, tho.

none posted:

When I said "same thing", I didn't mean the Japanese definition of the word "shoujo-ai" which I know is NOT the same as yuri and means "liking young girls", sorry for the confusion.

I commend you for derailing the thread at post #4. That was a noteworthy performance.

But let's get back on the yuri track!

Don't worry, someone'll bring the shōjo-ai thing again on page 2 or 3.

And it shall be done!

Damn, I love being right.

[...] tagged both as shoujo ai and yuri, but if shoujo ai = safe and yuri = adult/sex, then shoujo ai =/= yuri, how does that even work?

Magic.

Nezchan posted:

Not even that, a lot of individual people seem to have their own personal definitions.

That's probably true, lol. I think it's just easier to consider it all yuri personally. With yuri being defined as something along the lines of Cartoon/anime/manga-based romance and/or sexual relations between two female characters. Anything less than that should probably be considered subtext and anything involving live people (even if it's something like a fictional show) doesn't really seem to fit with yuri and would instead be better off being labelled as lesbian romance.

Magan & Danai isn't cheap, but it's free.

If there's no romance, IMO, it's not yuri.

Rather than yuri being just romance or not, it's more like we have 3 sub species of yuri, yuri romance, yuri subtext, yuri porn.

Nezchan posted:

Not even that, a lot of individual people seem to have their own personal definitions.

That's probably true, lol. I think it's just easier to consider it all yuri personally. With yuri being defined as something along the lines of Cartoon/anime/manga-based romance and/or sexual relations between two female characters. Anything less than that should probably be considered subtext and anything involving live people (even if it's something like a fictional show) doesn't really seem to fit with yuri and would instead be better off being labelled as lesbian romance.

I'd include one-sided feelings in that too, since it doesn't have to be mutual. Or at least not yet during the timeframe of the story.

Although honestly stuff from the west involving the same thing is "lesbian" as opposed to "yuri" in the same way that something like, I dunno, Lumbarjanes is "comics" rather than "manga". It's just that we're using a term that the Japanese use for all of it to refer to only what comes from a certain region, or in a certain range of styles. So where we might draw a distinction in the case of the Carmilla webseries, Japanese viewers would probably not.

Thiaguinho-sama posted:

It seens even sites who tag shoujo ai and yuri are not sure which one to use, Girl Friends for example is tagged both as shoujo ai and yuri, but if shoujo ai = safe and yuri = adult/sex, then shoujo ai =/= yuri, how does that even work?

In last volume they do have sex and it isn't completely hidden, so I guess that was the reason? For them Shoujo Ai= you will see romance/subtext between girls, Yuri= you will see 2 girls having sex. So in that sense sometimes tagging series as both does make sense (ignoring the fact that splitting it is redundant in the first place).

last edited at Dec 21, 2015 3:56PM

Yeah I guess that it's Nevri.

What I noticed is that it's not that yuri is just from japan, it's more like they're the only ones who still insist on not doing outright lesbian fiction and a lot of times they keep using the same forced cliches and don't go beyond the limitation they put in the genre, I feel that the genre itself is like a limitation made by publishers on what they can create, only some mangakas like Takemiya Jin go to the logical conclusion and don't make mangas that are just yuri but what we would call lesbian fiction, same for Their Story and FF, they don't really fall in yuri because they don't fall in the same limitations and traps.

last edited at Dec 21, 2015 4:03PM

Nezchan posted:

I'd include one-sided feelings in that too, since it doesn't have to be mutual. Or at least not yet during the timeframe of the story.

Fair enough point. I was mostly thinking along the lines of a lot of people tending to avoid things such as the subtext tag.

Although honestly stuff from the west involving the same thing is "lesbian" as opposed to "yuri" in the same way that something like, I dunno, Lumbarjanes is "comics" rather than "manga". It's just that we're using a term that the Japanese use for all of it to refer to only what comes from a certain region, or in a certain range of styles. So where we might draw a distinction in the case of the Carmilla webseries, Japanese viewers would probably not.

Personally I wouldn't make a distinction really. I'd consider something like Korra x Asami as much yuri as I would Homura x Madoka. The only distinction I'd make is for the medium. Anything drawn, whether it be anime, western cartoons, manga, or comics (or just random art) I'd classify as yuri personally. Anything live action or simply written without art (unless the literature is fan fiction of one of the things I mentioned earlier) would be lesbian romance.

Oh yeah, same. KorrAsami or Bubbline are yuri as hell, despite not being from Japan. Or the couple in the Jem comic. Or the one in Bravest Warriors. Or the one (and a half) in Stephen Universe.

Can we at least agree that yuri needs feelings? Whether they are one-sided or not.

I read once that shoujo ai is an americanism, and the Japanese don't even use it. And don't ask me for a link because I don't keep stuff like that. :p

Nya-chan posted:

Can we at least agree that yuri needs feelings? Whether they are one-sided or not.

Can't let go about lesbian porn, can you xD?

last edited at Dec 21, 2015 4:09PM

I still think yuri is women being gay. Doesn' t matter where it comes from cause that's a stupid reason to limit a genre and doesn't matter what medium it's in cause why would yuri be the only genre where that is the case? Comedy is comedy be it manga, games or books, action is action, adventure is adventure but yuri is suddenly lesbian romance? Eh. It's just that Japan coined the term so everybody who isn't into manga or anime calls it lesbian romance. But it's the same thing.

Kitsune Spirit posted:

I read once that shoujo ai is an americanism, and the Japanese don't even use it. And don't ask me for a link because I don't keep stuff like that. :p

Don't worry. We don't need it cos we know it. And yes, Shoujo Ai is something Americans came up with thinking they are being clever. Japanese indeed don't use it, but if they would, it actually has a meaning and would mean "pedophile" (literally, someone attracted to young girls).

Yuri = Girls loving other girls. My definition. Working fine so far.

last edited at Dec 21, 2015 4:15PM

I believe that yuri can only be about lesbians, don't matter if have romance or not, because yaoi is anything involving gay man, why yuri need to be different and include more while yaoi can be explicit just about gay man?

last edited at Dec 21, 2015 4:14PM

If two girls decide to kiss during hentai threesome, it's totally yuri

Cause lesbians are sexy and if two girls kiss they lesbians, they just haven't met me

And yuri is hentai lesbians making out sexy. A guy on top is fine cause I'm better anyway they won't have time to kiss

Believe it!

No Thiron that is not yuri and neither are the girl lesbians, that is two bisexual girls making out in het hentai, sometimes not even bisexual but straight, nothing more than that, as soon as there's a penis between the girls it's not yuri anymore, unless it's a girl penis, that is cool~~

last edited at Dec 21, 2015 4:21PM

as soon as there's a penis between the girls it's not yuri anymore, unless it's a girl penis, that is cool~~

If you are talking about futa it's not yuri and will never be yuri.