Shiromine is a one trick pony whom entire charactertization so far is being a tsundere

I disagree here. Ayaka is, first and foremost, a performance-obsessed workaholic who fell in love with the girl she wants to best: acknowledging that she loves Yurine would be like admitting defeat to her, hence her mental block. She forbids herself to love as long as she's "number 2", because of her obsession with being perfect. So either she will finally beat Yurine and "give in" to her feelings, or give in first and realize that not being perfect is not the end of the world. I'd personally prefer the latter, but we'll see how the author handles this… I do agree that a little more in-depth focus on her would be welcome though. Yurine has got plenty of that already.

@Phil: I… don't know if that was Canno's intention, but that does make a lot of sense. Especially that idea of "dependence" rather than "possessiveness". Though I don't think she destroyed the club to cut her ties with Yukina − she tried to "run away" from her after she was caught, but as she said she wanted to stay by her side, ideally.

In any case, we can all agree that Yukina is awesome. =]

last edited at Aug 9, 2015 4:00PM

Yay for Ultimate tsundere chocolate!

I must admit, the storytelling is wonky at times, but I like Mizuki/Moe and Shiramine/Kurosawa enough that I will still eagerly follow it.

Thanks again, Lyendith!

About the manga's story telling: the writting aspect of manga is a tricky one, moreso to western people. (Western and eastern literature have very well defined differences)
You usually think of the story telling as purely the character developement aspect, or the story progression. Often, you think of it as something entirely separated from the visual form. However, this manga is a one-person job, so judging it becomes even more tricky.
I do think this manga is special when it comes to storytelling. And there's been some oversimplifying comments about this.
To be honest, there are some situations and some "daydreams", some imagery that is quite well implemented. For example, when Kurosawa is thinking about entering the gardening club, and thinks that since anybody could fill her role, and she's not "special" there, that's the place she was looking for. However, that renders Shiramine's existance in her life pretty much useless. She thinks about how she wants to give Shiramine roses, commenting that white roses might suit her better, and then pictures or imagines Shiramine questioning her, asking why Yurine would give her roses since she has already found what she was looking for. This scene is really well-done. Specially the subtle stuff, like how Shiramine is holding the roses in a very Ophelia-like fashion. A similar thing happens in the third episode, when Mizuki and Yurine are running. And there is a lot of imagery here and there between panels.
I agree that the pacing is not perfect, but different writing styles have very different pacings. It shows that this author prefers to have a slowly progressing story, with some dialogue here and there that helps you understand more of the characters, and to be honest I don't dislike that...Well, usually. I agree it's kind of annoying here. Specially since I don't know how often the author gets to release a new volume...

If the stories where unconnected and every couple were just cameos to cement the universe of the story it would've worked wonderfully but instead we're suppossed to see all the characters through the eyes of the main couple when Shiromine is a one trick pony whom entire charactertization so far is being a tsundere

I have quite a lot of problems with this. First off, the story is not finished, so you can't say whether or not the side couples actually affected the fictional universe or not, and a lot of them did have a purpose. Many couples teach yurine /something/, and their presence is very much needed; if not, the story would become way too dense and over-centered on the main couple. Besides, you judge the dynamics of a relationship by comparing to other relationships, so they work as a foil to Yurine and Shiramine.
Talking about them, Shiramine is not just a tsundere. Tsundere is just a character archetype, a "structure" or "guide" that helps you write the character around it. That she has a lot of rivalry and love-hate dynamics with Yurine, is true. Does it means that's just what she is? Hell no. We get to see a lot of how Ayaka thinks. She is obsessed with perfection, and giving her all in every chance she has, and she is very competitive and doesn't give up easily, even when it's the "I memorized a book after reading it once in the summer" Kurosawa. And when her cousin asks why her love interest seems so keen on having Yurine on the track team, Shiramine flat-out tells her that it's because she isn't good enough, because that's how she thinks. Even when Mizuki and Moe's relationship is nothing like that, she doesn't picture the world any other way. I think she is quite a quirky and charming character. She may be a tsundere, but the tsundereness doesn't get in the way of the plot moving forward. It actually helps both of the characters develope.

Yurine has a better characterization but aside of the Gardening club arc she feels completely detached from all the other characters.

I can't stress this enough, that's how her character is supposed to look like/feel. Yurine herself is a master in convincing you that she is detached from the world. 80% of her daily routine is sleeping. And all the people around her have this fear of getting too close to her, because she is so exceptionally good at everything. But, it's not actually true she is detached from the world. Yurine wanted to get close to other people, she wanted to feel like "a normal girl", and you see this clearly when Shiramine says a few words of friendship to her, and she begins to act clingy towards the honor student. Subsequently, she begins to take more interest in hanging out with people from her class and going to the track team's field from time to time. She was detached, she didn't have anything she particularly cared about, not even a hobby or subject or club or person; but that changes on the very first chapter.

You mention shounen manga, but those devote at least a third of their whole run to develop the main characters first and once they're perfectly defined, is when the author introduces new characters.

Most shounen manga have terrible writing and character developement. And it's hard to figure out what "a third of their whole run" is, when those manga are usually endless. And they introduce characters all the time! usually enemies, but they do! And they are forgotten in a snap! And they are usually formulatic, their characters tend to be a bit shallow, and they are more filler than they are manga. Of course there are exceptions, but this is pretty much the tendency. And their idea of developing the main character is usually "he is deeply flawed in some way, or maybe he has no social skills, and at some point he may have dramatic events going on in his life, but the only conclusion you'll ever see is a hot-headed fight or showdown or glorified dialogue in a tokusatsu-style, whose only purpose is to distract you from the fact that the main character never ever grows". Either that, or the character developes so slowly throughout the series that you just feel they're milking money away.

Anyway...Pheew...Sorry for the wall of text! ^^; I never meant for it to take this long. I kinda take fictional analysis way too seriously! ahaha (it doesn't help that I love to draw and write, and I've researched a lot on stuff like this...)

I have quite a lot of problems with this. First off, the story is not finished, so you can't say whether or not the side couples actually affected the fictional universe or not, and a lot of them did have a purpose. Many couples teach yurine /something/, and their presence is very much needed; if not, the story would become way too dense and over-centered on the main couple. Besides, you judge the dynamics of a relationship by comparing to other relationships, so they work as a foil to Yurine and Shiramine.

The fact the story isn't finished is the problem. Yurine and Shiramine have become for the most part of the story supporting cast for the other stories, the other couples have a better dynamic and more well-rounded characterization than the heroines of our story. They have the same relevance to the story now than Akari has for Yuri Yuri but while there the protagonist role is being passed through all the characters, here is firmly set on Yurine and Shiramine, undermining a lot of the message on the stories

I agree that the supporting cast has to help the development of our protagonists but for that to work the protagonists have to be properly defined and had a commanding presence, something that is lacking here.

Talking about them, Shiramine is not just a tsundere. Tsundere is just a character archetype, a "structure" or "guide" that helps you write the character around it. That she has a lot of rivalry and love-hate dynamics with Yurine, is true. Does it means that's just what she is? Hell no. We get to see a lot of how Ayaka thinks. She is obsessed with perfection, and giving her all in every chance she has, and she is very competitive and doesn't give up easily, even when it's the "I memorized a book after reading it once in the summer" Kurosawa. And when her cousin asks why her love interest seems so keen on having Yurine on the track team, Shiramine flat-out tells her that it's because she isn't good enough, because that's how she thinks. Even when Mizuki and Moe's relationship is nothing like that, she doesn't picture the world any other way. I think she is quite a quirky and charming character. She may be a tsundere, but the tsundereness doesn't get in the way of the plot moving forward. It actually helps both of the characters develope.

Shiramine's development so far takes a step forward and two backwards. She's more willing to express her feelings but in return her tsundere act gets cranked to eleven every time. She also lacks any meaningful interaction or relationship with most of the characters making her a pretty shallow romantic interest. Her entire existence resolves around her relationship with Yurine

I can't stress this enough, that's how her character is supposed to look like/feel. Yurine herself is a master in convincing you that she is detached from the world. 80% of her daily routine is sleeping. And all the people around her have this fear of getting too close to her, because she is so exceptionally good at everything. But, it's not actually true she is detached from the world. Yurine wanted to get close to other people, she wanted to feel like "a normal girl", and you see this clearly when Shiramine says a few words of friendship to her, and she begins to act clingy towards the honor student. Subsequently, she begins to take more interest in hanging out with people from her class and going to the track team's field from time to time. She was detached, she didn't have anything she particularly cared about, not even a hobby or subject or club or person; but that changes on the very first chapter.

Yurine does has a character arc now but there have been stories where she doesn't has any meaningful impact on them, undermining her development.

Most shounen manga have terrible writing and character developement. And it's hard to figure out what "a third of their whole run" is, when those manga are usually endless. And they introduce characters all the time! usually enemies, but they do! And they are forgotten in a snap! And they are usually formulatic, their characters tend to be a bit shallow, and they are more filler than they are manga. Of course there are exceptions, but this is pretty much the tendency.

True, shonen stories tend to introduce a lot of characters through their run but most of them are one shot deals and the focus never leaves the main character.

And their idea of developing the main character is usually "he is deeply flawed in some way, or maybe he has no social skills, and at some point he may have dramatic events going on in his life but the only conclusion you'll ever see is a hot-headed fight or showdown or glorified dialogue in a tokusatsu-style, whose only purpose is to distract you from the fact that the main character never ever grows". Either that, or the character developes so slowly throughout the series that you just feel they're milking money away.

Isn't this what is happenning with Shiromine and Yurine?

Isn't this what is happenning with Shiromine and Yurine?

I kinda thought you'd say something like this, haha~
But shiramine and Yurine are evolving, and so far, we've only got to see 3 volumes and 15-ish chapters. I was thinking more in the lines of, say, Vegeta's developement in Dragon Ball Z, or Kenshin's in Rurouni Kenshin, or even Tsuna's in Hitman Reborn. I saw 50 episodes of it and I just couldn't keep watching, nothing made any sense and felt like a cutout of a series, but I do know he (eventually) became more badass, I just wasn't willing to waste that much time of my life on that. Those examples are extended over seasons. And Yurine is evolving much more faster than Shiramine, even! I get the feeling sometimes that Yurine is the protagonist, and not Shiramine. But Yurine really had a lot to work on, compared to the hard-working, honest, responsable, reliable honor student. She does have her share of developement to go through, but making her realise being perfect or getting aproval isn't everything in life, is...basically the objective of the story. When she sorts that out, what other goals does the story have? There could be some external drama going on, like something at their school happens or some girl gets in-between them, or they have to go to college and "oh no! we'll be separated!", but this isn't that kinda story, methinks. 'sides, the story is pretty light-hearted overall, and something like that would be depressing. And for that kinda story, we have other manga...(like Citrus :B)

Yurine does has a character arc now but there have been stories where she doesn't has any meaningful impact on them, undermining her development.

Well, that does bother me. In fact, volume 2 annoyed the hell outta me, except the Sumire episode (Even then, the way it was so easily settled irked me...). But again, this seems to be more of an "easy going" story, where the side couples and all serve as a "breather", and you can understand the story of one of the volumes even if you didn't pay much attention to the one before it.

Shiramine's development so far takes a step forward and two backwards. She's more willing to express her feelings but in return her tsundere act gets cranked to eleven every time. She also lacks any meaningful interaction or relationship with most of the characters making her a pretty shallow romantic interest. Her entire existence resolves around her relationship with Yurine

There isn't much of inter-relationship dialogue for anyone, though. Yurine is the only one that ...has a life, independant from her lover or club. What do we know about Mizuki? she cut her hair short for moe, she runs for moe's sake, and she has a reputation as a "prince". What do we know of Towako? She likes pure, unmixed things, she knows Yukina since they were kids, and she dislikes change (almost like an unwithering rose..). Ai, Chiharu and their senpai were pretty fun...until like halfway of volume 2, when it became mostly Izumi and Chiharu...
So, yeah, most characters "live" for their lovers, which I don't think is a bad move (it's consistent with everything the manga has done until now), but you do wanna know more about how they mingle with each other, it makes their relationships much more meaningful...(For example, when there's a cameo or a crossover between SonoHana characters it gets pretty amusing, and even interesting! You get to know the main characters much more like that.)
I love how the subject you bring up is dealed with in Comprehensive Tovarisch, and I think they should try to do something similar here, even if it's just a scene or two, or a mini-story, it helps set up a specific lore; and you can tell the author has thought much about his/her characters, so it leads me to believe he/she doesn't find it important or never concieved it to be a part of the plotline in the first place.
I still believe that the writing is well-done, even if it has its flaws (heck, even really respected authors have had them), and I like that it never takes itself too seriously nor becomes a nonsensical madness. Mainly, I think I like it because it stands out in many aspects. I've liked yuri for a while now, and while it's true there aren't that many yuri manga the true romantic kind, not the "breasts all over your face" kind (contrasting with, say, yaoi), this one caught my attention almost immediately.

But shiramine and Yurine are evolving, and so far, we've only got to see 3 volumes and 15-ish chapters. I was thinking more in the lines of, say, Vegeta's developement in Dragon Ball Z, or Kenshin's in Rurouni Kenshin, or even Tsuna's in Hitman Reborn. I saw 50 episodes of it and I just couldn't keep watching, nothing made any sense and felt like a cutout of a series, but I do know he (eventually) became more badass, I just wasn't willing to waste that much time of my life on that. Those examples are extended over seasons.

I'm not familiar with Hitman Reborn but to be fair with your other examples, neither Vegeta Goku were the protagonists of DBZ, those were their kids and with Kenshin we met him with his development already done and the focus is in how that development shapes his world.

For shonen with good examples of development you have Assasination Classroom, One Punch Man or Digimon V-Tamer (even Naruto and One Piece have good development for their protagonists)

And Yurine is evolving much more faster than Shiramine, even! I get the feeling sometimes that Yurine is the protagonist, and not Shiramine. But Yurine really had a lot to work on, compared to the hard-working, honest, responsable, reliable honor student. She does have her share of developement to go through, but making her realise being perfect or getting aproval isn't everything in life, is...basically the objective of the story. When she sorts that out, what other goals does the story have? There could be some external drama going on, like something at their school happens or some girl gets in-between them, or they have to go to college and "oh no! we'll be separated!", but this isn't that kinda story, methinks. 'sides, the story is pretty light-hearted overall, and something like that would be depressing. And for that kinda story, we have other manga...(like Citrus :B)

I'm not suggesting that they need to have their issues sorted out just like that, I'm suggestin that they need to have more focus before the story moving into other characters.

Well, that does bother me. In fact, volume 2 annoyed the hell outta me, except the Sumire episode (Even then, the way it was so easily settled irked me...). But again, this seems to be more of an "easy going" story, where the side couples and all serve as a "breather", and you can understand the story of one of the volumes even if you didn't pay much attention to the one before it.

That's why I think the series would be work better without designed protagonists, just have different stories set on the same place with the occasional cameo here and there.

There isn't much of inter-relationship dialogue for anyone, though. Yurine is the only one that ...has a life, independant from her lover or club. What do we know about Mizuki? she cut her hair short for moe, she runs for moe's sake, and she has a reputation as a "prince". What do we know of Towako? She likes pure, unmixed things, she knows Yukina since they were kids, and she dislikes change (almost like an unwithering rose..). Ai, Chiharu and their senpai were pretty fun...until like halfway of volume 2, when it became mostly Izumi and Chiharu...
So, yeah, most characters "live" for their lovers, which I don't think is a bad move (it's consistent with everything the manga has done until now), but you do wanna know more about how they mingle with each other, it makes their relationships much more meaningful...(For example, when there's a cameo or a crossover between SonoHana characters it gets pretty amusing, and even interesting! You get to know the main characters much more like that.)

Indeed is not a bad thing but I other than the stories happening on the same school there's little more connecting them into a bigger narrative (unti the gardening arc that is)

I still believe that the writing is well-done, even if it has its flaws (heck, even really respected authors have had them), and I like that it never takes itself too seriously nor becomes a nonsensical madness. Mainly, I think I like it because it stands out in many aspects. I've liked yuri for a while now, and while it's true there aren't that many yuri manga the true romantic kind, not the "breasts all over your face" kind (contrasting with, say, yaoi), this one caught my attention almost immediately.

The story is pretty good and is certainly one of the best mangas on the site right now, I was just detailing the flaws I see within it.

haha, to be honest I like people who are up for a discussion, and I think it's great that you point out the flaws in the story, it's always a learning experience to listen to someone else's opinion. (Also, digimon is epic sauce, they always get characterization right, even in times when people didn't have much idea of just what was right characterization in anime, except for a few godsent series.)
And about the designed protagonists comment, well...It might have turned out better like that from an analylitcal point, yes. I don't really like that kind of narrative though ;w; And I have a sort of affection for Shiramine, since she reminds me of some of my close friends. So I'm making an exception cause I'm a biased person! Hipocrisy, ho! (?

I think we should also take into account that, well, this is Canno's first actual series (I think?). In other words, they are still learning. Comparing volume 2 and volume 3, I think they DID realize that the main characters were too absent in volume 2 and sort of rectified it. When you look at it, volume 2's arc is really the only part where Yurine doesn't have any involvement (except for a brief intervention in chapter 6).

Speaking of which, has anyone read or seen Canno's amateur works (like the ones compiled in Cider to Nakimushi)?

last edited at Aug 10, 2015 4:59AM

There are places where you can get those RAW manga? o: I want!
I often wonder where do most translators get their RAWs. I never seem to find yuri in the sites I visit, and if there are magazines, they are often the most well-known ones...And if I do, they are often dead links of some weird DD site. Or worse, I find the doujin or manga, but in chinese. There's never yuri for a hard-working lurker... ;w;

One thing I learned from the series is that everyone on seiran High are all lesbian. Everyone

Hey, Ai is not! …Maybe… ò.Ô

There are places where you can get those RAW manga? o: I want!

No idea. :x

Am I insane or when Canno draws Chibis they look vaguely like Peanuts characters?

When Canno is bored, they draw some interesting stuff.
https://twitter.com/_canno/status/632143423936397313
("Sometimes I just feel like drawing this kind of clothes. I'm fine, thank you.")

Wonder if she's gonna appear in AnoKiss. X)

Am I insane or when Canno draws Chibis they look vaguely like Peanuts characters?

Huh… veeery vaguely, then. =O Though I don't know Peanuts very well…

last edited at Aug 17, 2015 5:53AM

Both Shiramine and Kurosawa really so damn cute. Cute overload...hahaha....
Well I hope it work well for them till forever. Just can't stop laughing when see them together.

Chap 16 part 1 is in French on Batoto! It's a tiny lil' chapter (10 pages) because Canno didn't have enough time or something. The English version should be up this evening or tomorrow.

Two "Behind the Scenes" characters are briefly mentionned in this chap, will you recognize them? X)

last edited at Aug 24, 2015 8:09AM

For a moment there I thought ch16 was gonna be full color all throughout, dam. Looks quite nice.

she supposed to win with that skinny body?
oh well fiction....

she supposed to win with that skinny body?
oh well fiction....

You wonder about that but not about how someone could memorize a book in a foreign language by reading it once? haha~
"NO MOE FOR YOU" made me laugh so loud <3
I loved this chapter. Even if it was short, it was full of yuri goodness!

No moe lol

last edited at Aug 24, 2015 8:37PM

Im liking this new development ^_^
I hope it doesnt end up anti-climactic

she supposed to win with that skinny body?
oh well fiction....

You wonder about that but not about how someone could memorize a book in a foreign language by reading it once? haha~

Seems like you haven't heard of eidetic memory.

"NO MOE FOR YOU" made me laugh so loud <3

I would be sad too if I don't have a daily dose of moe.

Blurg. More side story chapters. I don't care about those other people! I'm reading this for the main characters, dammit! Give me my main characters back!!

(destroys room)

really like this series. Great job with the scanlation! I look forward to the new chapters. Thanks so much for posting.