Hate love hate love hate love. Confusion, unessary arguments. We complain about that in regards Citrus but yet we are doing the same. I think what makes this series so popular is the strong emotional expression Yusu has towards mei. Now I know that we have seen many mangas with the typical "girl has a crush on the other girl and at some point they express their love for eachother" I honestly don't know how to put this and honestly what I may be saying might not make sense. How should I put it. Yusus feelings at the beginning were somewhat set in a very cliche way. But I think it was the way the author portrayed Yusu expressing her feelings that was refreshing? Like for example I really hate to compare this series because it's popularity and mastery. Aoi Hana, a very long series and amazingly well written but is it just me or did it have A LOT OF ANGST ? Lol not that Citrus doesn't have unesisary angst. Getting a bit out of topic. Oh boy. What I like about Citrus is that Yusu isn't afraid of telling or expressing her love for Mei in a breaking away from the typical "I love her but I can't tell her because she is a girl"
Actually even Mei, when playing around with Yusus feelings in the beginning also wasn't shy about kissing her even though she was a girl. Now don't get me wrong I know that in real life some people might be shy about expressing their feelings to the person they specially if it's someone the same sex. But that's the thing, not everyone is THAT way. Not everyone dwells on their sex. Some people are actually comfortable with the idea of them liking the same sex. And that comfort is shown as well by their attitude and actions. Yusu isn't afraid of telling Mei "hey your being selfish !! What about my feelings?! God damn it I love you decide already what you want?!" While in a lot of anime and mangas it's always the same "I can't tell her she won't accept me, maybe she has someone else" or "she is interested in me but I'm afraid of losing the friendship" or "this is forbidden, we are both girls blah blah blah."(and somehow the series always ends with the the girl telling the other one her feeling and whether she accept her feelings. Anyways there never anything after that. It just ends.) like ok? So is that what Yuki is? How about a couple building their relationship? Love doesn't end there if anything the real challenge starts now being in a relationship is hard work.... I don't know if I'm making sense lol. I guess I'm tire of yuri never getting anywhere or not actually showing a more grown up relationship. Which is weird because this series is far from being that. But there is something about it that on top of all the recycle stuff and unnecessary love triangles and drama EVEN though it has all that it also feels somewhat fresh and the art well we all know already lol. But yes I want to see exactly what it is. I just can't seem to put my finger on it.

last edited at Jun 3, 2015 8:16PM

Hate love hate love hate love. Confusion, unessary arguments. We complain about that in regards Citrus but yet we are doing the same. I think what makes this series so popular is the strong emotional expression Yusu has towards mei. Now I know that we have seen many mangas with the typical "girl has a crush on the other girl and at some point they express their love for eacother" I honestly don't know how to put this and honestly what I may be saying might not make sense. How should I put it. Yusus feelings at the begging were somewhat set in a very cliche way. But I think it was the way the author portrayed Yusu expressing her feelings that was refreshing? Like for example I really hate to compare this series because it's popularity and mastery. Aoi Hana, a very long series and amazingly well written but is it just me or did it have A LOT OF ANGST ? Lol not that Citrus doesn't have unesisary angst. Getting a bit out of topic. Oh boy. What I like about Citrus is that Yusu isn't afraid of telling or expressing her love for Mei in a breaking away from the typical "I love her but I can't tell her because she is a girl"
Actually even Mei, when playing around with Yusus feelings in the beginning also wasn't shy about kissing her even though she was a girl. Now don't get me wrong I know that in real life some people might be shy about expressing their feelings to the person they specially if it's someone the same sex. But that's the thing, not everyone is THAT way. Not everyone dwells on their sex. Some people are actually comfortable with the idea of them liking the same sex. And that comfort is shown as well by their attitude and actions. Yusu isn't afraid of telling Mei "hey you being selfish !! What about my feelings?! God damn it I love you decide already what you want?!" While in a lot of anime and mangas it's always the same "I can't tell her she won't accept me, maybe she has someone else" or "she is interested in me but I'm afraid of losing the friendship" or "this is forbidden, we are both girls blah blah blah."(and somehow the series always ends with the the girl telling the other one her feeling and whether she accept her feelings. Anyways there never anything after that. It just ends.) like ok? So is that what Yuki is? How about a couple building their relationship? Love doesn't end there if anything the real challenge starts now being in a relationship is hard work.... I don't know if I'm making sense lol. I guess I'm tire of yuri never getting anywhere or not actually showing a more grown up relationship. Which is weird because this series is far from being that. But there is something about it that on top of all the recycle stuff and unnecessary love triangles and drama EVEN though it has all that it also feels somewhat fresh and the art well we all know already lol. But yes I want to see exactly what it is. I just can't seem to put my finger on it.

Looong one,but its nice reading from ya haha. Well I do love Yuzu being able to be straightforward, ( not enough though or we would not have this mess with her and Mei ) I mean she even rejected Mei and slapped her when she was treating her like a fool, I do like that.

Quite interesting comparison between the chapter and tankoubun releases:

http://hutggaecha.tumblr.com/post/120785858957/vs-citrus-1

http://hutggaecha.tumblr.com/post/120786274707/vs-citrus-2

http://hutggaecha.tumblr.com/post/120787903522/vs-citrus-3

DT

Quite interesting comparison between the chapter and tankoubun releases:

http://hutggaecha.tumblr.com/post/120785858957/vs-citrus-1

http://hutggaecha.tumblr.com/post/120786274707/vs-citrus-2

http://hutggaecha.tumblr.com/post/120787903522/vs-citrus-3

Ya know, sometimes it looks like an improvement and other times it doesn't. A few even seems to change the appearance and mood of the character which kinda takes away from the scene if you ask me.

Yeah, the changes are mininal and mostly is just adding detail on some scenes.

Can anyone enlighten me why Japan thinks cousins are okay, but adopted siblings not?

Can anyone enlighten me why Japan thinks cousins are okay, but adopted siblings not?

First cousins are usually more accepted worldwide simply because the blood relation between the two individuals is much much smaller.
The Coefficient of Relationship (the kinship value) between first cousins is only 12% (same as second cousins) whereas the value for full siblings and parents is 50%.
Incest laws usually only pertain to coefficients higher than 25% because that's kind of the point where inbreeding can cause damage.
I know a couple of cousins who got married here and it's not seen as weird and I'm going to guess Japan is the same.
I'm also going to guess it has to do with Japan's history of arranged marriages where often cousin marriages would occur due to a bunch of factors.
Cousin relationships and marriae are also usually not prohibited in a lot of religions, Christianity included.
Overall, it's just been more culturally accepted.

The only countries in the world where cousin marriage is actually illegal are The USA (in most states), China, India, Philippines, Slovenia, Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia and Hungary.

last edited at Jun 12, 2015 9:14AM

Forbidding marriage between siblings, even non blood-related, is money/inheritance related I think. It would cause a legal nightmare.

Personally, I wouldn't have any moral qualm about even blood related sisters having sex, since there's no danger of pregnancy.

But I'm very open minded

last edited at Jun 12, 2015 9:12AM

Note that inbreeding in itself does not cause any damage to the offspring. The problem lies in recessive genes that, if expressed in the phenotype (i.e. if the out-cancelling dominant gene is not present) give the resulting child a disability.

With direct siblings the risk of that is 25%, but only IF such a gene is present in the first place.
What the chances for that are probably depends on the gene in question, I have no idea. I've often seen people believe that kids of an incestuous couple are more or less bound to be disabled, but that's not true at all. Also keep in mind every kid has, statistically speaking a chance to be affected by a genetic defect.

And whether the state has to ban having kids based on risks as that is always a very nasty question, as it very quickly leads to concepts of "human breeding", discrimination and such (would a disabled couple be forbidden from having kids? will couples need a "gene certificate" allowing them to have kids?).

IMO, most incest laws are stupid, cause they're trying to address issues that are already covered by other laws in the first place (like abuse, child protection laws and so forth).

But to come back to Citrus: I doubt the average Japanese person would have such a big issue with adopted siblings falling for each other. My guess is they'd consider that as a typical soap opera plot just like other people, too. In Citrus that's just played for drama, Yuzu is especially fretting over it. If a real person, Japanese or not, would actually get into such a situation, they'd probably say "fuck it, I didn't adopt her" and try to talk it out.
Nobody would be so stupid to believe just because your parents married it automatically makes you and your step-siblings exactly the same as real siblings.

You'd be surprised.

People went absolutely NUCLEAR at the Flash TV show because it made the love interest the adopted sister of the Flash. Message boards were filled with "GROSS", "FUCK THIS INCEST SHIT" and whatnot.

You'd be surprised.

People went absolutely NUCLEAR at the Flash TV show because it made the love interest the adopted sister of the Flash. Message boards were filled with "GROSS", "FUCK THIS INCEST SHIT" and whatnot.

Well, those people clearly don't understand what the definition of incest entails.
You should give them a dictionary.

Yeah, is pretty stupid but if people loses their minds for something like that, the conflict on Citrus becomes more understandable

In most western countries (probably in japan too?), in present days, there are no laws against incest per se, as long as the persons involved are consenting, not mentally impaired, adults. There're law against them marrying, but nothing keeps them from having sex.

And you can't keep people from having children if they want to and can. That's just how nature works.

Now, there would be social consequences for them, of course, and for the eventual kids. And maybe child protection services would have their say if such kids were raised in such a family.

last edited at Jun 12, 2015 2:08PM

In most western countries (probably in japan too?), in present days, there are no laws against incest per se, as long as the persons involved are consenting, not mentally impaired, adults. There're law against them marrying, but nothing keeps them from having sex.

Not true, incest is a criminal offense in multiple western countries (quite a big amount too) regardless of age and consent and you will be prosecuted if you're found to have had sexual relationships with a first degree blood related sibling (not so much for cousins as I mentioned earlier).

Of course if no one reports you to the police, it's not like people will go after you.

last edited at Jun 12, 2015 2:26PM

I looked it up right now and I'm pretty sure incest is not a crime, except if one of the persons is a minor or doesn't consent.

There was a case in Germany recently, but the sister was minor, so I think that's why the guy was convicted. But as of now, they had 4 children. 3 of them are disabled and in foster care, but they are raising the 4th, legally.

Edit: strike that. Incest is legal in France, Belgium, Luxemburg, Netherland, Portugal, Russia and Spain, at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest

last edited at Jun 12, 2015 2:47PM

Just taking a quick look at this page will give you a nice list of countries where it's punishable by law, and those countries include Austria, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Romania, Sweden, Switzerland, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and The USA.

And those are the only ones listed in that page, there's more countries in the world than those on that list (obviously).

Edit: Well guess you looked at it yourself.

Edit2: Glad my country doesn't have to deal with this BS lol.

last edited at Jun 12, 2015 2:50PM

No no no... France, for example, only prohibits it since 2010 if it involves minors. Consenting adults are not concerned.

Laws vary widely between countries anyway.

Anyway, since we are talking about yuri, what two adult sisters do in their bedroom isn't my, or your, or anyone's concern. Period.

They won't even have to deal with a possible pregnancy, so, for all I care, more power to them.

I add that in my country fully consensual sex between siblings, even adopted, is punishable.
(Though I'm not sure if homosexual ones are. The law talks about 'brother and sister' but meaning of law here is kinda fuzzy).

I don't think I'd had any sexual throughts about someone who lived with me for ~20 years. Kinda gross, especially when you get to know their less pleasant habits/weirdness at home. The kind of that people don't show in public.

I don't think I'd had any sexual throughts about someone who lived with me for ~20 years. Kinda gross, especially when you get to know their less pleasant habits/weirdness at home. The kind of that people don't show in public.

Don't ever get married then, or live with your boyfriend/girlfriend.

You'll break-up/divorce in record time.

So tell me, do you fell comfortable about fucking your mother?

last edited at Jun 13, 2015 9:44AM

In Germany it's especially stated that anal and oral are okay, vaginal ain't. So same sex incest is allowed too, I think.

I think circumstances are what matter here.

Obviously, typically speaking, if you grow up with a sibling since you were young, you'll just naturally learn to accept them as just that, it will very rarely evolve into incest. The last thing I think of when I look at my own sister is that I want to date her.
But maybe, in an alternative universe, if we had met in a different way, maybe not since we were kids, I could have felt differently towards them.

In Citrus, the two sisters obviously didn't have any prior knowledge about each other, so it's not unreasonable to imagine a romantic bond forming between the two due to the circumstances around them.

And the same goes for any kind of incestuous relationship, you can't just make huge encompassing generalizations because this is very much a case by case thing.

last edited at Jun 13, 2015 11:13AM

So tell me, do you fell comfortable about fucking your mother?

When did this become about me? I don't know about that since it never crossed my mind. I wouldn't do anything with any of my parents, or siblings, because I have zero sexual attraction to them. But I'm just me, not anyone else.

I admit someone having sexual relationships with a sibling may raise issues in our societies, seeing as the taboo is strong. But it hasn't always been the case in other places and in other times.

Some people have asked, and still ask me, something akin to "do you feel comfortable about fucking another girl?" with the same disgusted expression you have.

I see your arguments as an attempt to force on other people your idea of what is a "proper sexual relationship".

And I'm clearly fed up about people telling me who I can, or cannot, fuck.

Back to Citrus, there's no issues : they are both girls, they are not blood-related and there will never be a baby. Case closed.

last edited at Jun 13, 2015 11:35AM

Wow this subject scalated quickly...

So... who here thinks Matsuri should date..eh dammit the names,,you know Yuzu's friend...the one who lately hangs out a lot with that rep girl.. nya ¬¬