Lariria posted:

Are you 12????? Getting mad about adults using curse words in 2026?????

This is just baffling me!

I'm not mad though? I just think that resorting to curse words to make an argument just makes you sound brainless.

If it's the impression you want to give, please proceed.

We will be address Kirin's issues talking to and about people separately. I don't believe he does it out of bigotry either, but his stubbornness can certainly send the wrong message.

Let's please otherwise stay on topic.

Tbh, I myself didn't know what meme you're talking about before looking it up.

"Bold of you to assume " is a pretty common expression and no one is obligated to know it was part of a transphobic dank meme decades ago.

Also, please, be respectful. No need to be rude and use the F word. It just make you sound immature.

The meme in question being referenced is "assum[ing] [someone's] gender", not the phrase "bold of you to assume...", just to be clear.

last edited at Sep 9, 2026 6:48PM

The dog is unfortunately really good at chess. Even ignoring the whole pronoun issue.

It's very striking how structurally identical debates over Cross-dressing versus Transgender are to debates over Subtext versus Yuri: "the character in question never explicitly, canonically said they consider themself a woman"/"the character in question never explicitly, canonically confessed to liking another woman romantically" versus "okay but I have eyes and can put two and two together about the desires being expressed".

Given that probably a third of the posts on this forum are given over to debates over whether something is Subtext or Yuri it's probably not surprising that anything tagged Cross-dressing or Transgender attracts the same debate, but there's at least a better site-culture understanding of how to be respectful to real-life lesbians in debates about the former than there is an understanding of how to be respectful to real-life trans women in debates about the latter. So the latter debates always end up with someone who self-admittedly doesn't talk to trans women much making an ass of themselves.

It's very striking how structurally identical debates over Cross-dressing versus Transgender are to debates over Subtext versus Yuri: "the character in question never explicitly, canonically said they consider themself a woman"/"the character in question never explicitly, canonically confessed to liking another woman romantically" versus "okay but I have eyes and can put two and two together about the desires being expressed".

Given that probably a third of the posts on this forum are given over to debates over whether something is Subtext or Yuri it's probably not surprising that anything tagged Cross-dressing or Transgender attracts the same debate, but there's at least a better site-culture understanding of how to be respectful to real-life lesbians in debates about the former than there is an understanding of how to be respectful to real-life trans women in debates about the latter. So the latter debates always end up with someone who self-admittedly doesn't talk to trans women much making an ass of themselves.

That is an astute observation and partly the reason I'm burnt out with trying to make people understand each other on this topic, but you're forgetting that gender-nonconformity (which is not entirely the same as crossdressing but I'll spare you the paragraphs) is also an identity under the queer umbrella, and the vehement insistence of a loud minority that everybody who prefers a nonstandard gender expression must automatically be trans is erasure. It's not akin to, or paramount to, or any other evasive wording, it simply denies the validity of parts of this forum (incl. my own), not any different from trans erasure.

I'm generally fine with people reading stuff however they like (in the vastness of the internet, there are much much worse takes) and have some shitty headcanons myself (with Shohei's very tomboyish LRIG being super excited to snatch his body and feeling like always having had it, I think Dona might actually be a YOB) because in the end it's nothing more than military-grade yuri googles (trans goggles?) so whatever. But then there's some generalized bullshit that's frankly just insulting.

Thus begins the Dynasty Crossdressing Discourse Cycle, invariably leading to the same outcome you observed:

1. Something about cross-dressing, drag, etc. is posted and people get excited.
2. Somebody begins to make objectively incorrect blanket statements
3. Attempts to correct them are taken as a direct attack on trans identities. (In 85% of all cases that's an understandable, yet miss-placed trauma response from transwomen getting marginalized almost everywhere else. The other 15% are just assholes, a which every demographic can lay claim to.)
4. The sort of person who sees women as a mere collection of parts (and therefore transwomen as inferior, because they might not have the part you're looking for) joins the debate spewing bigotry under the guise of civil discourse.
5. People with zero interest in actually finding common ground sling mud (whilst a silent majority is wisely simply not engaging. I hope)
6. Regret living in a signatory of the 1925 Geneva Protocol without reservations. (Optional)

The one thing is people arguing about how to read a piece of media (though I won't deny there's the sporadic "lesbians don't exist" more often than not argued accidentally by people sucking at thinking things through) which is inescapable in this day and age. The other one's a highly volatile mix of misguided solidarity and genuine transphobia. (I'd generally argue the latter is much rarer than some people tend to believe in this decidedly queer space, whereas the former is a simple consequence of "being queer doesn't mean you're right on matters of queer concern" which I learned is the one thing nobody wants to hear.)

In the end it just genuinely ruins any attempt by anyone to have any opinion whatsoever without the whole tread derailing into the sort of forum drama you're eventually too old for.

Anyway there's also a futa-elephant in the room that begs to be undressed another day.

That is an astute observation and partly the reason I'm burnt out with trying to make people understand each other on this topic, but you're forgetting that gender-nonconformity (which is not entirely the same as crossdressing but I'll spare you the paragraphs) is also an identity under the queer umbrella, and the vehement insistence of a loud minority that everybody who prefers a nonstandard gender expression must automatically be trans is erasure. It's not akin to, or paramount to, or any other evasive wording, it simply denies the validity of parts of this forum (incl. my own), not any different from trans erasure.

"Trans woman" was admittedly a somewhat too narrow choice of words on my part, apologies. My concern here is for people who are transfeminized socially by the people around them and subject to transmisogyny (as the character of Homare unambiguously is, that's the whole plot of the one-shot) whether or not they consider themselves women in the strict sense. As you say, that's not quite the same thing as cross-dressing, or at least as how cross-dressing is imagined as a fictional trope. (In practice, as i'm sure you know, cross-dressing as someone who was AMAB outside of a very small handful of socially sanctioned scenarios gets one socially transfeminized pretty damn quickly regardless of one's own self-identification.)

bookwyrm posted:

The meme in question being referenced is "assum[ing] [someone's] gender", not the phrase "bold of you to assume...", just to be clear.

Then even more indication that the poster didn't even reference it and, like most people not chronically online, had never heard of it. I've been somehow framed as "transphobic" myself sometimes, because some opinions or turns of sentences are easily construed as transphobic by people who want to cancel their opponent instead of addressing the topic at hand.

Ngl, discussion threads about crossdressing/genderbender/transgender manga turn radioactive very easily on Dynasty.

Zesc posted:

That is an astute observation and partly the reason I'm burnt out with trying to make people understand each other on this topic, but you're forgetting that gender-nonconformity (which is not entirely the same as crossdressing but I'll spare you the paragraphs) is also an identity under the queer umbrella, and the vehement insistence of a loud minority that everybody who prefers a nonstandard gender expression must automatically be trans is erasure. It's not akin to, or paramount to, or any other evasive wording, it simply denies the validity of parts of this forum (incl. my own), not any different from trans erasure.

I'm generally fine with people reading stuff however they like (in the vastness of the internet, there are much much worse takes) and have some shitty headcanons myself (with Shohei's very tomboyish LRIG being super excited to snatch his body and feeling like always having had it, I think Dona might actually be a YOB) because in the end it's nothing more than military-grade yuri googles (trans goggles?) so whatever. But then there's some generalized bullshit that's frankly just insulting.

Thus begins the Dynasty Crossdressing Discourse Cycle, invariably leading to the same outcome you observed:

1. Something about cross-dressing, drag, etc. is posted and people get excited.
2. Somebody begins to make objectively incorrect blanket statements
3. Attempts to correct them are taken as a direct attack on trans identities. (In 85% of all cases that's an understandable, yet miss-placed trauma response from transwomen getting marginalized almost everywhere else. The other 15% are just assholes, a which every demographic can lay claim to.)
4. The sort of person who sees women as a mere collection of parts (and therefore transwomen as inferior, because they might not have the part you're looking for) joins the debate spewing bigotry under the guise of civil discourse.
5. People with zero interest in actually finding common ground sling mud (whilst a silent majority is wisely simply not engaging. I hope)
6. Regret living in a signatory of the 1925 Geneva Protocol without reservations. (Optional)

The one thing is people arguing about how to read a piece of media (though I won't deny there's the sporadic "lesbians don't exist" more often than not argued accidentally by people sucking at thinking things through) which is inescapable in this day and age. The other one's a highly volatile mix of misguided solidarity and genuine transphobia. (I'd generally argue the latter is much rarer than some people tend to believe in this decidedly queer space, whereas the former is a simple consequence of "being queer doesn't mean you're right on matters of queer concern" which I learned is the one thing nobody wants to hear.)

In the end it just genuinely ruins any attempt by anyone to have any opinion whatsoever without the whole tread derailing into the sort of forum drama you're eventually too old for.

Anyway there's also a futa-elephant in the room that begs to be undressed another day.

Very much this. Thank you.

Especially the part about gender non-conforming erasure and people jumping on some statements, construing them as direct attacks on trans identity, becoming very aggressive and derailing the thread. Just because you're queer doesn't mean you're right on everything queer. You have a voice, but it's still just your personal experience/opinion.

bookwyrm posted:

The meme in question being referenced is "assum[ing] [someone's] gender", not the phrase "bold of you to assume...", just to be clear.

Then even more indication that the poster didn't even reference it and, like most people not chronically online, had never heard of it. I've been somehow framed as "transphobic" myself sometimes, because some opinions or turns of sentences are easily construed as transphobic by people who want to cancel their opponent instead of addressing the topic at hand.

Ngl, discussion threads about crossdressing/genderbender/transgender manga turn radioactive very easily on Dynasty.

This is exactly what I mean about people not knowing how to be respectful to trans women/tranfeminized people more broadly. I have been lurking this forum, and discussions like this, for some time and I have literally never seen you speak to a trans woman without being condescending and dismissive. I don't care if you don't mean it like that, at some point you have to modify your behavior to be more respectful. You don't actually have to butt in every time to tell trans women they're being hysterical and overreacting.

Being able to identify a transphobic joke isn't being "chronically online" and I'm sick and tired of people implying that trans people, a demographic that tends to suffer exactly from isolation (and this applies even more to transfems), are somehow lesser for caring about the discrimination against them that manifests online and eventually spreads to physical places because we don't live in an era where the internet isn't as accessible to the general public anymore. This joke was and still is so prevalent it's spread to my country in certain spaces.
Too many instead of thinking about why they're being called transphobic, immediately get defensive because they consider being called bigoted the Actual Real Offense and don't really care about possibly being bigoted. I have been called misogynistic here before and instead of losing it and calling oppressed people, who often only have the internet to be themselves, "chronically online" I reflected on why I was being called that and put in the effort to do better because I WAS being misogynistic.
If you're frequently being called transphobic there may be an actual reason for that, and it's not trans users trying to "erase" GNC cis characters. (Weird to imply trans characters are portrayed more than GNC cis characters, all while forgetting that GNC trans people do exist and have their genders under a much bigger pressure than that of their cis counterparts. Stop forgetting cis people are the dominant class when it comes to gender independently of the other ways they are queer.)

It's really cool that we get our social isolation and dependence on the internet to find others like us, escape the constant misgendering and abuse in our lives or even our physical bodies used against us whenever we point out ways which we are discriminated.

So, we arrived at "trans women bad". Some people really cant help themselves

last edited at Sep 10, 2026 5:29AM

people jumping on some statements, construing them as direct attacks on trans identity, becoming very aggressive and derailing the thread.

I thought I made it pretty clear that you can't just point at one "side" (lo and behold, we got tribalism) to shift blame onto. This is a devious cycle of spiralling out of control from statements without ill-intent; I do not think anybody is intentionally trying to erase gender non-conformity here, but it does happen, and usually a quick heads-up would do in the same way that girlswhokiss encourages self-reflection. But everyone always assumes the worst in each other, which then in turn attracts the people who up to that point had only been strawmen.

I hope you're not hay.

(In practice, as i'm sure you know, cross-dressing as someone who was AMAB outside of a very small handful of socially sanctioned scenarios gets one socially transfeminized pretty damn quickly regardless of one's own self-identification.)

Oh it goes both ways; bigotry does not care for coherence; in fact it abhors it. Take a look at TERFs calling 20-year transitioned transmascs with beard and everything "temporarily confused lesbians". The concept of "transfeminized" does not exist outside of queer circles, only a spiteful "different, therefore bad" mindset. Yup, I get shit, but there's not really a point in differentiating flavours of queerphobia. Also I live in a signatory of the 1925 Geneva Protocol without reservations, so my lament is a situation half of this forum would probably kill for. I can't even begin to fathom how bad it's elsewhere.

Hey, no hay.

If you're frequently being called transphobic there may be an actual reason for that, and it's not trans users trying to "erase" GNC cis characters. (Weird to imply trans characters are portrayed more than GNC cis characters, all while forgetting that GNC trans people do exist and have their genders under a much bigger pressure than that of their cis counterparts. Stop forgetting cis people are the dominant class when it comes to gender independently of the other ways they are queer.)

At whom is this directed? Nya-Chan or me? Or a generality?

And I'm fairly certain "trans characters are portrayed more than GNC cis characters" has not been made as statement
in this thread, neither directly nor implied. (Also I suspect the "otoko no ko" archetype alone to indeed outnumber genuine representation of transgender people in eastern media alone. As for western media... both hardly get any, and if they do it is likely to suck. Does ridicule count? I suppose it is "portrayal" after all.

Somewhat prickly.

this is trans and it's not het and to assert otherwise is willfully transphobic. gotta be honest I'm kinda worried about the cultural tide here ever since the insane backlash against kouyou and momiji

This thread makes me wanna kill myself. The fucking bigotry against trans people here is so fucking high, it's gotta be allowed by staff at this point. Yeah, the rules say otherwise, but I am sick and tired of seeing this shit happen so often.

Either the mods need to clear house, or just stop lying to the trans membership and be open and honest about allowing this kind of behavior.

I am done with this website.

I am generally speaking, but this is not the first time Nya-Chan has been aggressive towards trans users for seeing their own experiences in a work (where they even compared trans people to the bigots harassing a fictional character) that deals exactly with gender and the pressure that comes from not fitting into a binary or cis label. Sorry but I find it plainly offensive to deny or act like it's oppressive or invalidating to suggest that the character here could at the very least be non-binary by trying to distance any sort of Gender Non-Conformity or even cross dressing from transness itself.

Yes, there is a lot of complexity in this discussion especially regarding cross dressing, but that's off-topic. My point is, why does Homare have to be a GNC boy, why can't he be non-binary and transfem, why does this character need to be strictly aligned to the social position of a man? What's the problem in a transfem reading of him? In what way does this hurt a GNC reading if not out of transphobia? (because they happen to share an experience with trans people, and somehow that's 'invalidating'?) Why is the concept of a GNC cis character being prioritized over that of a transfem non-binary (or even a woman) character like it's being shut down by it?

Every time there's this discussion, people have a tendency to put everyone above transfems, like transfems somehow have way more power over them (and no, I am not denying that users who are more in favor of a GNC reading couldn't also be transfem, but they still end up sharing the opinion of the majority), and even if it was not directly stated, I am talking about the implication that trans people are "stealing characters" or "hoarding experiences". I get the feeling sometimes that this forum hates non-binary people and don't even bother to consider that non-binary transfems (who may not consider themselves women at all!) exist.
Do we really need to keep drawing some clear line that'll only hurt others by keeping them stuck as something they aren't happy as and not even spare characters from it in the process?

Like, what does this do other than frame transness as bad and something even fictional characters need to be protected from?

The concept of "transfeminized" does not exist outside of queer circles, only a spiteful "different, therefore bad" mindset. Yup, I get shit, but there's not really a point in differentiating flavours of queerphobia.

Disagree. There is a point in differentiating them. People who were camab are violently banned from femininity (and will punish others who were forced into the same classification if they dare to "taint" themselves with femininity and imply "masculinity" isn't as firm and biological as they want it to be). The existence of transfems is a threat to the status of "man" as a dominating social power and the bioessentialism surrounding it, and those things will manifestate not just in how we navigate through our lives, but in works of art and how transfeminized characters are portrayed and often forced into staying as the role of a "man" and/or their inherent transfemininity denied both by the author and their audience.

People may not know there is a name for this unique kind of oppression, but we all have our biases and act on them even unknowingly.

This is the case for any other sort of social dynamics such as racism and xenophobia, and there will be more specific manifestations of it depending on who the target is, such as racial minorities or disabled folks. It's why there are so many characters who are a clear portrayal of the "delusional transfem" stereotype, why Black people are portrayed as aggressive, why South America is portrayed as a jungle with uncivilized natives, why bisexual people are portrayed as cheaters, etc. Those all have things with common, but they aren't expressed the same way.

I think it's pretty clear the translator translated this one exactly because of those trans undertones.

Transfemininity is inherent to the genre of the cross dressing boy, because trans itself is the denial of one's cagab (and while for some it is also an identity label, it's ultimately a social class that includes even those who are non-binary but prefer not to label themselves as trans because they are under the same oppressive system of being forced into a cis state) and many of the expectations that come with it, and a lot of characters in this genre express a clear desire not to be a man, and sometimes even explicitly wish to be women.

I'm just so done with people acting like they're allies but will then use one of the things that impacts us the most to mock us. If you care about trans people you need to learn about how they're hurt, be aware of dogwhistles and stop denying something being transphobic simply because you have no experience with it.

I'm trying to be as respectful as possible with what I'm saying and not being ironic. I'm not a native english speaker and have trouble phrasing my thoughts. But I'm not so dumb I don't sense the transphobia in the background. Bye.

To put matters at rest and because I was told I went too far with my snide comment about gender, I apologize for the hurtful comment I made without thinking.

We're absolutely very sorry that moderation has been in the gutter for a while in general and will be working towards getting that corrected, likely with additional personnel.

@Nya-chan: This has not been the first time you've pissed off various people, trans or not, with your attitude towards divisive topics, to the point where you're seen as a sealion. This has been going on for a long while on Pale Blue Color Saudade I wanted to make it clear that this nitpicky nature of discussion you only really seem to thoroughly engage in when it's about trans identity is quacking like a duck. Even if you're being entirely genuine, your consistency in pissing people off requires change.

And it's been made clear to us that Nya-chan is not the only one making topics involving trans identity dreadful or outright triggering, regardless of intention, and so this also serves as a visible warning to everyone else that this may apply too with possible line straddling or just asking questions.

Separately, there are also some vehement insisting on what a particular work is or means, and pushing/punching everyone else who doesn't understand your viewpoint away. This has also led to dead ends that result in all parties being frustrated and hurtful, and will also be dealt with at our discretion.

This is always going to be a bit delicate as it tends to involve very personal lived experiences that other trans people may or may not have had either, let alone anyone who's cis. I don't fault anyone reacting quite negatively to any perception of being denied their existence considering today's political environment worldwide, although I simultaneously do wish that possible misunderstandings wouldn't so quickly switch to immense hostility.

While it's far from optimal, the limitations of the forums system here makes it so that the best way to get ahold of us more quickly is to ping us on the discord or on bsky as it's easier to keep up with, especially during working hours which those platforms are easier to mask from prying administrative eyes.

Edit: The oneshot was removed by the scanlator themselves due to the quite negative results in this thread.

last edited at Sep 24, 2026 1:12AM