Forum › Girls Complex a la Mode discussion

joined Jun 14, 2022

I think you're talking about something different from the posters you replied to. "No Boys Allowed" was only mentioned in one reply, and no one has brought it up since, other than yourself.

No Boys Allowed is part of the hetero-normative complaint and in the context of the story. Why not bring it up?

I think it's clear now that no discussion of the story and intent and context and concerns/struggles of the intended demographic is wanted.

And if you do have such discussion or ask questions, you're a transphobe with an ugly heart who bring up "irrelevant" things.

Got it. I will not respond anymore but finish my post on my understanding of the story and be done with it.

last edited at Dec 13, 2022 8:21PM

joined Mar 19, 2022

The author's intent is fair, but how should they have better presented it to avoid offense?

The author doesn't need to present it better. People were simply expressing how they felt about the story and why. That should have been the end of it.

joined Jun 14, 2022

Feel negative about a phrase used by two ciswomen lesbians, because they are tired of the hetero-normative definition that sex is not real if it does not involve a penis and or male to some degree in direct response to a male implying their sex isn't real.

lol saying trans people are heteronormative.

I'm not reading the rest of what you're saying. You can say "I'm not transphobic all you want", but even I can see you are. Also keep in mind attitude like your terfy garbage are not accepted on this forum, and you WILL probably be banned for this. I'd advise everyone reading this thread to just ignore this person, or you'll comments will prolly just end up being deleted when its cleaned up.

Let's try to actually talk about the comic at hand, and now some random phobe's outrage at people existing and being uncomfortable with cisnormativity.

I did not say that Trans people are hetero-normative. What I was saying is that there is common ground among Cis and Trans struggling with Hetero-Normative expectations, which this story clearly portrays for the cis side of the matter.

I think at this time your only effort is to harm and threaten and belittle and ostracize me while twisting what I said. To that end, I began with asking clarification of the specific stories involved and points of concern.

"You're a lair, garbage, terfy, should be ignored, bad things will be done to you..." I never said any of this to anyone here. I made nothing directly personal.

The discomfort and harm is shared, not unique to Trans nor Cis.

The author's intent is fair, but how should they have better presented it to avoid offense?

The author doesn't need to present it better. People were simply expressing how they felt about the story and why. That should have been the end of it.

So the offense is for offense sake and not context and not to see how it can be avoided... Maybe I was asking not for the author to literally do something, but so that I could better understand. Clearly, that's not wanted.

I'm seriously done. I wish you all well. This is abusive.

I am terribly sorry for wanting to know exactly why it hurt while bringing context to actual content. And if I can offer any actual apology it is that my wording may have been poor to start and for any harm that has brought. This was not my intent.

last edited at Dec 13, 2022 9:12PM

joined Jul 22, 2015

some cute stuff owo
even though some words did sting abit as a transbian

You felt that way too? (fellow transbian)

joined Jun 14, 2022

As I was going to post before I replied to a comment of hate towards gender and sex being associated when both are relevant to sexual attraction, acts, and relationships, for many even if not absolutely so to some. Such hate can be interpreted as hating cis-gender people and those with specific orientation, which is why I responded with defense. And asked why those associations are hated instead of being seen as legitimate in their own right. And this all kicked off into a trial by fire for me to walk.

Brackets show what I have added to my originally intended post.

You know, I didn't even think about that when reading it, but now that I do, I totally see what you mean.

I guess one way to look at it is that these are the words that these characters needed to hear, not some broad truth for everyone. Makes me wonder if the author ever thought about transwomen though.

Which story are you two referring to? I think I understand which one it is, but I want to be fully certain before replying in full.

Well, I can’t speak for the original poster but there were two main things that definitely stuck out to me on first reading:

  • The “I don’t have a dick!” justification on pg104. Just a small thing but doesn’t have the best implications if you think it through.
  • “no boys allowed” on pg114 — it does make more sense in context, but it definitely still stirs some amount of discomfort in me due to the closet trans effect

But don’t get me wrong, I still love this story. It just has a bit more background radiation than usual.

Oh no, I enjoyed the stories overall as well. Though their struggles did sting me a bit too as someone who isn't Trans.
Thank you, I thought to post something, but I wanted to be clear as I worry about vitriol if I were to reply.

  1. "I don't have a dick". I think she was just overly clarifying her sex because of the gap between her appearance and sex anatomy, which she has a bit of a personal complex over to start. Further, she recognized that some of the boys were gazing at the girls in their swimsuits and didn't want to cause alarm as a "boy" now coming into a girls changing room when occupied.

[I can see where "girl" not "having a penis" could offend some, but girl not having a penis is very much appropriate and relevant in many instances for many people. Otherwise, I am not certain where the absolute offense is.]

  1. "No Boys Allowed". Here the possible offense is clearer as the phrase could be interpretated as being ignorant to or rejecting of Trans. But as with the first, Cis people also struggle with hetero-normative expectations as expressed in the story. There's common ground and understanding to be had there.

In Victorian times, women were assumed sexless or lacking of sexual desire thus could not initiate sex. Therefore, as this was the belief, any woman who initiated sex was insane or if lesbian they were part male as only men had such desires for women and could initiate sex. And many hetero women and lesbian women were institutionalized under this erroneous belief and subject to cruel "cures". This would continue into the 80's and influences remain.

One such example is that sex between women is not real sex if a man isn't involved to some degree, even if simply defining what a woman's sexual agency and ability is. This is in the same lane as romance between girls and women is just playing at love. Why the female characters in the story were hurt or genuinely though was just playing in the earlier story.

I liked Story 6 overall, but was irritated at first as they sort of set themselves up for it by commenting on how far the male character went. That and there's actually good reason to recognize a difference, at least in the potential outcomes, between fingers and penis. Otherwise, any sexual act is real sex regardless of reproductive potential, but some unfortunately belief otherwise. It's not fake nor playing at.

[It's sad, the hetero normative expectation caused harm to them and then conflict between them. Though I would say the lesson is not to hold other to be always aware, and one should be wary of basing self-esteem on other. I don't think the male character intended harm nor the author anything trans-phobic. I asked how the author could avoid such a thing in the future, but was told that didn't matter by.]

[Anyway, I meant I was done with the argument before, but this time I am done with the whole series, thread, and discussion. Treatment I received leaves me distrusting, but sadly I also expected vitriol and condemnation. My worries appear to have tipped my original approach, which is regrettable, but again, I didn't light the logs.]

last edited at Dec 13, 2022 10:19PM

joined Dec 30, 2018

The author's intent is fair, but how should they have better presented it to avoid offense?

The author doesn't need to present it better. People were simply expressing how they felt about the story and why. That should have been the end of it.

With my second comment i agreed on that

I think it's fine to show characters having certain beliefs that come from their experiences with hetero normative society

As long as those are not authors real thoughts it's fine

joined Nov 30, 2016

Can't really relate to cis lesbian feelings but I wasn't hurt either.

I just thought that some of those stories felt like they've been written by males.

I've gotten that vibe too from all of this author's work. Might explain why they work with Irodori? Although, judging from their Twitter that doesn't seem to be the case.

last edited at Dec 14, 2022 3:42AM

joined Jan 6, 2022

Number 5 is so perfect good lord! 2 girls self-conscious about their bodies helping each other explore and become more comfortable with eachother ahhhh pump it right into my veins I need a continuation so bad

joined Nov 13, 2022

I wanted to see #5’s body……. what a bummer

joined May 25, 2022

Why is the author accused as being potentially thoughtless of Transgender when they are writing stories about girls and women lesbian that show no indication of being Trans?

Don't be transphobic.

Is it really that hard?, do you really need to write an essay on how you see trans women as men?

It's just so tiring man

Demonising people is tiring.

joined Jan 23, 2022

Not a transbian but i know exactly the lines you're talking about, they made me cringe too

I hate how gender is associated with sex

I've erased and rewritten this post a fair few times now before actually posting it, but in the end all I can muster is a feeling of absolute exasperation at comments like this (and others) and the piss poor and hostile responses to @Green777's reasonable takes, although I'll admit they seemed to go off on a tangent towards the end there. The dissonance between some comments here and how things actually go IRL is staggering, to say the least.

Some of you will get the shock of your lives if you try dating/forming relationships with other actual humans, relationships and dating are exclusionary by their very nature, there are certain things that will be a deal-breaker for a fair number of people regardless of how much you attempt to guilt or belittle someone into thinking otherwise, and that ain't gonna change any time soon.

joined May 24, 2022

I liked the Meat one. Even as a trans woman, I still connected with the story a good bit. Its themes are a bit more general than its dressing.
Overall, I like the cohesive set of mostly independent one-shots. A true multi-course meal! Not sure what to point to, but it feels more unified than those anthologies that all follow one theme or another. Maybe just a consistent author?
I think the author struck a good balance in terms of the lengths of the different chapters. I feel like there isn't enough appreciation for the short, sweet, and to the point. The pieces that convey an emotion, an idea, a circumstance, and are satisfied with that.

last edited at Dec 18, 2022 2:51AM

joined Jun 14, 2022

I wanted to revisit this thread for clarification, but also due to it being clear that mods are tolerant of hate speech, harassment, and otherwise abusive langue so long as the targeted user is deemed an "unacceptable" and falsely accused of some prejudicial -ism. A word drop and suddenly you're less than dirt and to be ignored and trashed.

I know I am supposed to bring this to Mods, but the last mod I spoke with told me to be gay.

Why there is so much internal discord, vitriol, and lack of care and compassion within the LGBT+ Community, and why I even hesitate to say I am part of it. And frankly one reason why people outside are unwilling to support. Why care for a demographic who are at each other's throats?

Further, if Transbian is the term for sexual attractions between Ciswomen and Transwomen or between Transwomen, then I will use Lesbian to refer specially to sexual attraction between Ciswomen.

The ironic fact of the matter is that if you're using Transbian then somewhere you recognize that Lesbian is it's own thing, but when I further point that out I am a "Transphobe". Studies show the redefining or appropriation of words, instead of coining new ones to actually reflect increased understandings in diversity, is harming everyone involved.

Acknowledging this is not having something against Trans people. It's being against lazy verbiage that's hurting people.

There is no inherent wrong or evil to Cis-Normative and Hetero-normative attractions, orientations, and social constructs. They're only harmful when forced or dictated or presumed and otherwise done out of prejudice. The same thing for Trans-Normative. There is no inherent right or good to being Trans or Homo over Cis and Hetero just as there is no inherent wrong to it.

Don't tell people to be gay to fit in, dear mods. The very problem we have is people moralizing these things.

If being a "Terf" means arguing that people's sexual attractions and loving relationships are legitimate and real, even if not Transwoman or Man aligned or where Transwoman and or Man is not present, and thus they have a right to decide what enters and what does not enter their bedrooms, then I am a Terf.

We all have a right to our own space.

What upset me wasn't the Trans discussion, but that the point of the story, which is ultimately a universal one we can all understand and appreciate, was being utterly dismissed because of cringe and a potential hatred for anyone outside the "Trans-Normative".

It's okay and healthy some times to accept being excluded. But that exclusion isn't absolute if the underlying message is understood. The complaint of the language the author used was needed language to prove the point that the characters were being harmed by the hetero-normative as well.

I asked what would better replace "No Boys" so that Trans were not exuded in a negative or perceived negative way, in a way that would avoid cringe, but I was told it was irrelevant. I am frankly at a loss. And no one can tell me how I was Transphobic.

It cuts even deeper when I, at a time, went through a Trans phase and met a lot of prejudice and rejection. I say Trans phase not to discredit other, but in my personal experience it was a phase. I realized in my personal Gender/Sex exploration, and spiritual and religious practice, that that phase had its importance in self discovery, but it lead me personally to an understanding of self without those disciminations thus beyond my self. I did not need to make changes to my body nor appearance to understand that.

I am not claiming some greatness, just explaining my personal experience. And I've got a ways to go.

This is not true for all Trans or Trans exploring, this is not defining how you should be, but just my experience. But if you want my honest opinion I will say that the over-attachment on both sides is harming us all. Note that I say over-attachment, not attachment. Defining self has its importance.

I asked why can't ciswomen have their own spaces not to discriminate with prejudice, but because if was understood what the characters were asking for, then there would be no cringe. It's from their perspective, which may not tell the whole story, but certainly explains what is legitimate for them. And if that reality were taken to heart then it would be understood that they were harmed by the same factors some here were harmed by.

I offer my own fault in poor presentation, I got upset in poor form, I let hurt get to me, and I won't sit and defend myself further to that, but these personal attacks, of which I did to no one, won't help.

last edited at Dec 26, 2022 3:48PM

Dynasty Scans
joined Oct 8, 2010

[Far too long of a rant to say you're not capable of respecting others]

Speaking as a mod, and after conferring with other staff members, I don't see any communication with you from our end that was directed at you. In fact at best we can find just a general statement that was made in an unrelated thread. There were however directed comments at you about engaging conversations in bad faith, which you clearly have not heeded.

Not only that, choosing to by-pass contacting us to solve an issue just shows us you have no intention of operating in the rules or in community contract of treating others with some modicum of respect.

Either way, you're being removed.

For everyone else, please do not continue the conversation, and keep it on the release itself.
Thank you.

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