Forum › Posts by Samcaesar

joined Sep 13, 2018

This is the part of the plot of this thing I'm still struggling with. I'm ambivalent about the husband being such an irredeemable person, because even though it's normally a lazy plot device to make it okay for him to be dumped and for the True Couple to get together, in this manga he's got enough complexity that I feel okay about it.

But, Midori's whole thing is she just smiles and goes along with things. It feels kinda thematically jarring that she's handed this excuse for leaving him on a silver platter.

I mean the whole point is that Midori's kind of been smiling and going along with whatever up until she met Maki again. It's not like, just "smiling and going along with things" she actively wants and finds a more earnest happiness in doing things with Maki. Can you explain more why you find it thematically jarring?

Side note: Y'all seriously are too cruel to gay women imho. The way some folks like ypassionate talk makes you think that there's nothing like homophobia or misogyny that exists in the world. Like, maybe you could call the end of their Class S relationship cruel,but Midori probably felt it was coming a mile away and expected Maki to feel the same. She really did love her after all. Or hell, I don't even think Komari and Midori's situations are even comparable. Midori was deep into Class S mindset, she's not stupid or whatever for being a gay woman under pressures of a heterosexual society. Komari's keenly aware she's gay, she's just got her boyfriend to act as a beard because she lives on a small island where she'll likely be totally ostracized if it's known that she's a lesbian. Should Komari be honest with him and break up? Yeah, and I imagine she is going to, especially as she watches Maki and Midori actually start dating and all. No need to fret about it.

joined Sep 13, 2018

A lot of romance stories period are fantastical in nature, idealistic romance that people themselves likely never experience. In books, movies, anything, and with any sexuality, gay, straight, so fourth. I personally don't think think that makes them less LGBT+, or whatever sexuality the romance is focusing on. I think just some story creators, and their audience, simply want a romance story that's straightforward and cute. None of the regular hardships most people experience in life. Life is already hard enough, so I don't view wanting something cozy to read as a bad thing.

Also I don't know if a person can really say that this manga is so much more realistic. The husband is a cartoon villain in the most ridiculous ways. Maybe people disagree with me, and that's fine. As I said previously, not everyone sees eye to eye.

I do think they meant it fits less into the pure 'romance' you get with the typical school girl sorta yuri, while a thing labeled 'LGBT' might cover more drama orientated issues rather than just pure romance. I feel a distinction is less than necessary tbh, trying to box Yuri/GLs into just 'pure and light drama narratives about falling in love' feels weird to me, especially when so much can encompass two women falling in love, particularly well, more dramatic and messy works like this one.

Eeh, I've had a misfortune of knowing abusive men and I've talked to plenty of women who've shared that misfortune and you'd be surprised. Tazune is honestly tame compared to some shit I know about. >_>

Also y'all REALLY need to chill on calling women stupid because they're dealing with comphet, it's misogynistic imho. Komari's trying to prevent what might basically lead to her ostracization by pretending to be straight, which given she lives on a small island. If you think outing yourself in what could be an incredibly hostile environment is a smart idea, I don't know what you think is smart or stupid, but it's wrong.

Midori fully believed in the notion that she had to grow up, get a husband, and have a kid because of societal pressures and gender roles, it's really not her fault for following a script. When something's told to your entire life, it's difficult to feel otherwise.

last edited at Mar 15, 2020 10:30PM

joined Sep 13, 2018

Well Battan sure knows how to write Lesbians versus society. Poor Komari :( I hope her seeing Maki eventually sweet Midori from her relationship gives Midori the courage to break off from her relationship with her beard. The dude doesn't even seem to know.

joined Sep 13, 2018

I don't quite get the vitriol towards Doumyou, she's obviously gonna fuck Tazune, but whether she's so opportunistic that she'll out Midori to him, I dunno.

I think the anger against Doumyou is because taking that picture was such a dick move. You see two people doing something intimate, and you whip out the phone and take a pic? Baaad.

Also, about whether Doumyou will snitch on Midori or not? Think of that picture as "Chekhov's pic" and you'll have your answer. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

Is it really a dick move to want to tell someone and have proof of their fiancee cheating on them when you don't know that that Someone is an abusive shithead? Sure Doumyou might have selfish reasons for it, but it's not like it isn't happening, and from her perspective, Midori is just doing this for no real reason.

Oh it'll be important, I'm sure, but how it comes up, I don't think its as clear as 'Doumyou snitches'. Tazune might see it accidentally, she might be about to show him then notice the blood and see Tazune be weird about it and put two-and-two together, she might confront Midori about it first. Like I said, this isn't a clear cut thing, though I can see the angle folks go to for it.

Ok am I missing something? .... I think it's because it's too obvious with it's manipulation.

Because we should? Midori is a traumatized gay woman dealing with comphet who gets preyed on by some shithead, but because of comphet, patriarchy, gender roles, and other societal stuff, and ends up almost being trapped in a bad situation that she doesn't realize is bad yet. It's something that at least as a lesbian I find really engaging, especially when I read and know about how this shit happens in real life a lot.

If you don't like it and hate the characters, you don't have to read. Personally I find all the characters really interesting, Maki especially is relatable for me. She's living a second chance for the girl she loved and thought she'd never see again, while dealing with the conflicts that arise from that girl still dealing with comphet and being in an abusive relationship that she's at least aware of. Midori isn't spineless or indecisive, she's traumatized lmao. If you can't have empathy for characters like that, maybe you want to avoid the 'drama' tag. Doumyou is at least interesting in that I don't know what to feel about her. She picked up on Tazune and Midori having a weird relationship, she still seems into Tazune, but what's her angle? To just get with Tazune? I don't know, but I'm willing to give her a benefit of the doubt, especially considering Tazune seems totally fine cheating on someone and would've likely tried to already if it was hinted at being reciprocal. Hell, even Tazune is interesting to me, he's scum, but he's scum that socially minded folks are aware of in a particular way, hell he fits well into themes of dealing with childhood trauma via going hard into gender roles too.

last edited at Mar 6, 2020 9:12PM

joined Sep 13, 2018

I don't quite get the vitriol towards Doumyou, she's obviously gonna fuck Tazune, but whether she's so opportunistic that she'll out Midori to him, I dunno. Maybe she'll consider it, see the bloodstain on the floor (Seriously oh my god, how awful do you have to be that you don't feel enough guilt to wipe up blood that you caused by hurting someone else for no reason??), then realize what is going on there and keep her mouth shut. Maybe she'll consider it, send it to Midori asking for an explaination, and ruin the trip/get Midori to tell Maki all whats all going on. Maybe she'll send it and say "get serious or leave him". Or fuck maybe she will just show it to Tazune and be an opportunistic jackass with it. We haven't seen too much yet of who Doumyou is other than she took a picture of her coworker cheating and was/still is into Tazune, who she doesn't know is a total abusive shithead.

Also @zensunni, I don't think they're married yet, just engaged. Nothing quite points out that they've been legally married yet for sure and the way they talk about their marriage coming up makes me think its more than the ceremony.

joined Sep 13, 2018

Up to now, Tazune always was my number one hated character in this manga... but, somehow, in this chapter, I hated Doumyou the most.

Eh, I still hate Tazune far more than Doumyou. It'll be shitty if she outs Midori while going after Tazune to fuck him, but to her mind, she did see Midori kiss someone else for no reason (in her mind). Shitty abuser is gonna be worse than an opportunistic woman who's lacking some important info.

Also: Gotta wonder if Komari invited Maki with the idea that she'd invite Midori too? The girl seems to have a good head on her shoulders and she really seemed to wanna play wingwoman earlier.

last edited at Mar 6, 2020 12:07AM

joined Sep 13, 2018

Gonna point out one detail we are conveniently overlooking - Midori is, by any normal standard, cheating, while as far as we know Tazune ... case, it doesn't come down to that, Maki and Midori get together and raise the child. Worst case, lots of drawn out drama.

Like I said, first time I really didn't want a kiss between the two gay women to happen because Oh God. I hope Doumyou hears whats happening and finds it in her to delete it. And like, hopefully she's not a homophobe or whatever. I wonder if she's gonna come over to fuck Tazune and see the blood stain on the floor?

Yeah I'm really curious what Komari is gonna add to the plot. I was hoping she'd play an actually seen role and hey, we've seen her.

last edited at Mar 5, 2020 10:01PM

joined Sep 13, 2018

Well, seems like to me Midori's realized she definitely loves Maki back at least (That kiss was definitely Midori towards Maki, as Midori's trying to get taller rather than Maki the other way around). She definitely doesn't have anything positive feeling toward Tazune any more given her behavior in the last few chapters, which good on her. 'Course whether her and Maki both see this is as one last bit of happiness (She did right his surname last chapter) or if Midori eventually tells Maki about Tazune and I'd imagine that would make her act, I dunno.

Wonder if Doumyou's gonna out Midori or if Tazune stumbles on it accidentally. Overall, I dunno if I'd call this chapter cute, hell this is probably the only time I wish a kiss from the main two didn't happen because oh God last thing I want Doumyou to think is that she's doing a good thing by telling Tazune or whatever.

joined Sep 13, 2018

I think the problem is ... orz

See I don't even know if that's apt way to describe what's going on though? Like we don't know her exact feelings on what Tazune's done to her, just that now him grabbing her scares the hell out of her. Maybe she, like a lot of abuse victims, doesn't feel like there's a way out or that she's just trying to enjoy these last few weeks of her life before resigning herself to a 'normal' life. Maki doesn't even know the full context of things going on, we know Midori is abused so expecting her to bring it up is a difficult line to cast, while Maki clarifies her reason for not asking what's going on. The difficulty of bringing up abuse is a pretty clear issue in real life, and I imagine the same is the case here too. Like we gotta keep in mind here this isn't just like "Oh I've run into a rough patch and need a little pick me up so I'm gonna reach out to my friend here", it's "I had a neglectful childhood that's melded with years of societal expectations for women, which mixes further with the fact that I've ended up in a scenario where I'm pregnant and in a relationship with my coworker who's abusing me". The former sucks, but is far less complicated and works much better to the scenario described, the latter though? That's messy, but I don't think the way Maki and Midori are going through it is a bad one.

There's no need to game theory it really imho, especially when the dealer hasn't put all the cards on the table yet. Like... Currently we have Maki's perspective on the matter. Yeah she's hurt, but she's voiced "If I really wanted to, I could just leave. But I don't." Maki's in love with Midori and wants to help her, whether the whole truth comes out via Maki managing to ask or Midori pulling through and asking I dunno, but both don't seem bad. Maki is going to pull through and be happy with Midori, that seems to be fine. Messy on the way there, sure, but ultimately fine. Maybe if there was better resources available and more than two people were aware anything was up, there'd be a different context to the whole scenario, but there isn't really. So... Shrugs?

Pretty sure the way or another.

I've said it before and I'll say it again (Not sure if I've said it hear specifically but) Comphet is one hell of a drug, esp when mixed with other societal and personal issues.

Everything you pointed out does make sense, my comment wasn't so much on Maki being obsessed with Midori, I though maki may end up hurt because even if midori frees herself from Tezune she might try to be "normal" again, even if it's quite clear that Midori likes Maki a lot.

I do hope their relationship works out tho.

Eeh, given the themes of the story and how Maki is very much so a person to go against the grain, I'd imagine that's effecting Midori through proximity to her at the very least. It's clearly having an effect on her so far imho

Pretty sure the way or another.

I've said it before and I'll say it again (Not sure if I've said it hear specifically but) Comphet is one hell of a drug, esp when mixed with other societal and personal issues like neglect and abuse.

joined Sep 13, 2018

I think 'Maki x Midori' will still be the end-game based on the way the author pans this out. Although, to be honest, I hope Midori and Tazune get a divorce and they ALL stay single, including Maki. It's not healthy I think to indulge in another relationship when you're so broken as an individual (and the brokenness happen to affect the marriage/relationship's falling apart). They need to sort themselves out, also for Maki to--well, move on.

One little comment before I out my thoughts in total: I don't really think that's fair to a lot of people to say "If you're abused, tough luck. No relationships for you" especially because, well, relationships are a healthy part of recovering from abuse. It can get toxic, but I don't really think that's the case here.

Maki just can't get over MIdori it seems, it's not that healthy for her but maybe that is what Midori needs to be free from her current situation. I can only hope she can get away from that guy, but will this be good for Maki?

See I've been seeing a lot of "Maki is unhealthily obsessed with Midori! They shouldn't be together" but we've got to keep in mind that this is a narrative constructed to show their relationship. Maki has a whole life that's going relatively fine. She's lonely, yeah, but that's being a closeted lesbian for you. She still capable of reaching out, she's befriended Komari and they have a good friendship after all, but she is a fairly lonely closeted lesbian living with her mother still so I can't imagine she's really in the position to be dating. We don't know when Maki narrates the opening to chapter 1, but given that two other events in the chapter are her coworkers badgering her on why she's single and doesn't have a boyfriend and Komari asking if she had any luck in highschool, so from context it's not like she's hopelessly pining over her. They meet by chance and given they were in love, its not unusual to imagine that, like Maki and Komari say, maybe its fate and she gets excited about rekindling her relationship. It doesn't go that way exactly, but Maki seems content to just befriend her up until Tazune shows his hands and makes Maki want to protect Midori from the shitheel. As of this chapter, she did seem hurt by Midori just saying "I think we should stop seeing each other", but there's nothing to indicate that her life was really messed up by that. She's able to live a fine, albeit lonely, life without Midori and I'd imagine if Midori never showed up again she would've moved on just fine. Midori does show up however, and we're given Maki's perspective on her feelings. She's mad yeah, if she wanted to she could just cut Midori off, she said she could after all. Buuut she doesn't want to. Especially with how she sees Midori hurting. She's aware of Midori's suffering even if she doesn't have the whole picture and she's just happy to be there for her.

So what I'm trying to say is I don't really get the notion. Yeah Maki likes Midori, but she's not like obsessive. Is their relationship perfect right now? No, even just between them they've still got bumps to cover. But it's a far cry from unhealthy imho.

joined Sep 13, 2018

i know they're not into each other but still maki and komari is still a less toxic relationship than with midori. i really don't like the way midori is acting it feels like Maki is just some kind of surrogate she doesn't seems very sincere (and the ten years difference means nothing i've seen a lot of couples irl with that age gap.)

The only time Midori is authentic about herself is when she's with Maki, hence why she looks like an entirely different, very happy person.

It can mean a whole lot when you're talking about some kid who's like, probably 18, still in highschool who lives in some far off isolated island. Like Maki getting in a relationship with someone like that is way more toxic just from power dynamics alone. And that's not to say people can't have healthy, loving relationships with people with a notable age gap to them, but someone fresh out of highschool isn't going to work well.

joined Sep 13, 2018

Being abused doesn't give you a pass to be trashy and manipulative.

Point out how Midori is being manipulative in any manner and you might have a point.

She's a sad depressed woman reaching out to the woman she used to love, initially acting on old memories because she didn't put any weight into them because of comphet while also seeking out the last time she felt like she belonged. Hell, Midori even seems to acknowledge what she did hurt Maki considering how she's now consistently keeping in contact with her.

Like shit, some of y'all are so eager to shit talk an abuse victim. I can't help but feel like if y'all weren't fans of yuri and Maki was just a smidge less well written you'd be spouting out about how creepy it was that she had a crush or how manipulative it was for her to get mad at Midori for opting to not cheat or how shitty it was for her to bring up the notion of eloping with Midori and just leaving her fiancee without knowing literally anything about their circumstances other than a (correct) gut feeling about their relationship being awful.

This is to say that all those readings of Maki are wrong and require some pretty unsympathetic, misogynistic feelings to come to the conclusion to, so why do the same for Midori? She's a sympathetically written abuse victim who clearly still harbors some deep, subconscious feelings for her old highschool girlfriend.

i ship Maki with Komari. she seems to understand her and respect her so why not?

Because there's a ten year difference between them and they're clearly not into each other as anything other than friends lol

last edited at Mar 2, 2020 10:25AM

joined Sep 13, 2018

He really doesn't have any special feelings for her. Tazune is obviously unenthusiastic towards this marriage thing, but he's doing it nevertheless because he thinks it must be done -- because social norm says a man must marry, have children, etc. Heck, even his career depends greatly on this.

It didn't have to be Midori, any woman would have done. They are all pretty much interchangeable to him. It just happened that, of all the women he fucked, Midori was the one who got pregnant. Tough luck.

Yeah, of course it's also makes things worse for Midori that she ended up the perfect sort of person for abusive assholes like Tazune. Tbh I think Tazune only brought up marriage this chapter because he realized after hitting her and having her come back that he could functionally get away with anything so why not marry her in his head? He basically gets to get away with seeming like a successful family man and probably cheat with whoever he wants with no worries about it having consequences.

Maki acted on her feelings and she got to be mad for a bit because she deserves to! She's really in love with Midori and it's good they'll get some time to work out their feelings.

That scene was great.

"It's not that I can't do it, it's that I don't want to do it."

That's Maki rebuking all the people who have berated her for her attitude towards Midori, claiming that she should forget Midori and find someone else.

Yeeep. It's also a nice in look to who Maki is as a person. Yeah she got mad at Midori, she felt like she was just cut out after having a nice night, but she knows quite clearly that she loves Midori and she knows whatever is going on with Midori and Tazune, it's nothing good. She's willing to forgive Midori (Though she still wants to mull on it for a few days clearly) because she wants Midori to be happy. I'm sure when the truth comes to light things will get so much better for the both of them.

Overall this chapter is so good and it makes me love Maki even more. The way she sees Midori is so cute, romantic, and incredibly relatable mood when you're with someone you love dearly.

Poor Midori. Now his mere touch is enough to make her freeze in fear.

(Btw, nice bit of mansplaining: "Why didn't you just say it out loud? It's all your fault! You need to learn to speak clearly!" Asshole.)

Oh my god I know. And the heart racing feeling is just so much. I can't help but feel even worse for Midori now.

Gotta love how Tazune just has to insult her right after admitting she was right about something for once. What a prick.

Heh. That was one of the great lines of the chapter. Loved it.

Again, I love Maki! She knows she's not 'normal', but she wants to carve out her own sense of happiness in that, hopefully with Midori there with her.

Also: Small detail someone I know pointed out. I love how when Komari is getting all excited about Maki meeting Midori again the phone gets anthromorphized. It's a little out of place, but it's fun.

joined Sep 13, 2018

And I'm not kidding when I say that one of the worst (or rather, one of the most telling) is his refusal to turn his socks rightside-out for the laundry, because it's such a simple request from his partner to make her life just a little easier and it shows how little he cares about her and her needs.

The more I think about it the more I really like this point? The framing of it highlights how Midori and Tazune's relationship was abusive even before hand, especially in contrast between Just A Bad One. Like, framing such a small thing as a focus as what happened with the socks with just a bad relationship is just a little petty, hell in a good relationship its just something someone would change over time and it wouldn't be a big deal. Hence why Battan likely opted to clearly frame the socks and thus Tazune ignoring Midori's very small request. It changes a little annoyance into just showing how little Tazune really cares about her. Just like how he literally checked his phone to chat to the woman he's likely going to cheat with while hugging her. He doesn't care and never really has.


Also!!! New Chapter and god I'm so glad this manga is going the exact places I want it to. We're going to see Komari finally, Midori's going to be able to get away from Tazune almost entirely for a bit, Maki acted on her feelings and she got to be mad for a bit because she deserves to! She's really in love with Midori and it's good they'll get some time to work out their feelings.

Also the page where Tazune grabbed Midori made me reel for a moment.

Also also! I think this chapter really highlights another theme of the series which is the sort of play between idealized and reality/normalcy

Like, Midori's idea of reality, one that was molded into her by society, being she had to 'grow up' (see, be heterosexual) snapped her away from the 'fantasies' of youth (Class S scenarios, dating Maki in this case). When she's with Maki she's back in this 'fantasy' of being able to not think about the issues of her life like her cold, abusive relationship with Tazune. Hell Midori's own relationship with Tazune is her trying to live in some fantasy that having a kid and just dealing with his abuse will lead her to reality, but as seen with this chapter again, he's very much so able to snap her back to the reality of her being in an abusive relationship.

With Maki, she tried to fall into this fantasy of running away and eloping with Midori only to be reminded that in reality, Midori is in a shitty relationship and can't just leave like that. She reminds Komari that this isn't just some fantasy in this chapter just about that notion too. Her mother basically says she's got to accept 'reality' (In the mother's case, being 'normal', i.e. heterosexual, having a husband, and then having kids) and Maki rightly points out that's not 'normal' it's going with the crowd. It highlights who Maki is, which is to say she's kind of a weirdo through and through. It makes her a very nice, relatable character imho.

Hell, even Tazune is wrapped up in this notion of living in his own fantasies. He gets to pretend he's some big macho man that can get any woman to love him because they're just so easy and stupid to him, but in reality, he's an asshole with an ego made of glass and we saw him slip into reality and try to reassert himself into his fantasy by becoming violent with Midori.

Hey, those two talking in Spanish ^ have a novel theory: that Tonoike could likely be gay, a repressed homo, and that's why he's so cold and indifferent towards all women, even the ones he dates and shags.

Hope not, he'd literally just be that one guy in Netsuzou.

It also beats around the bush that the reason why some gay guys are like that isn't cause they're gay, but it's cause they're men pushed to be misogynists imho

last edited at Mar 1, 2020 10:16PM

joined Sep 13, 2018

Heck, he's clearly enough of a charmer that women seem to think he's a nice guy and Maki told him she loved him.

You well-nigh gave me a heart attack with this statement. :(

PFFFT god, it took me for a moment to get what you meant. My bad, I blame writing forum posts at 1 am before sleeping :P

I take your point, but as I said before, visually ... Great guy, right?

(As far as visual design goes, I must admit that Midori's eyebrow-antennae kinda weird me out.)

I think they were reacting to my typo saying Maki instead of Midori :P If somehow Maki fell in love with Tazune I think I'd have a heart attack too.

Oh i love her weird eyelashes. It kinda makes her whole face seem a little foxy and sly, when in reality she's a really simple woman. The only person I feel she could lie to is herself.

last edited at Feb 27, 2020 12:21PM

joined Sep 13, 2018

Hey, those two talking in Spanish ^ have a novel theory: that Tonoike could likely be gay, a repressed homo, and that's why he's so cold and indifferent towards all women, even the ones he dates and shags.
Like he's incapable of making a romantic connection with them.
I believe it's probably not the author's intention to take the guy's character development in that direction but it's funny that this is a theory that very well holds water, lol.

Definitely not the case imho, like gay dudes can be misogynstic, but nothings really hinted at that beyond this notion that gay dudes might hate women. He likes having sex with women and pursuing them, just in a predatory way. Heck, he's clearly enough of a charmer that women seem to think he's a nice guy and Midori told him she loved him (As muddled as that is with her own issues). We saw his POV and he never seemed to even think about men the way Midori has with Maki. He's just a misogynist who got handsome and realized he could use that to treat women like shit.

last edited at Feb 27, 2020 11:46AM

joined Sep 13, 2018

Yeah I'm done with this discussion, it's going nowhere and has been going nowhere.

That said! Still really excited to see where this manga goes, especially with the whole theme of 'People trying to cope with traumas and gendered expectations" stuff.. Vaguely tempted to look for raws just to get an idea of what's happening next lmao

joined Sep 13, 2018

You're projecting a lot. You're the one with a chip. ... something to do with my having a penis.

Yeah, sure I'm projecting. You first posted in this thread to defend Tazune and his comments about Midori, insult Midori and say she deserves her shitty life, then make some weird ass comments about how you're sick of people defending female characters? Maybe they're not defending irredeemable women or whatever, you're just stuck thinking they're awful people like how you are with Midori. Hell your analysis of what happened with her and Maki in the earlier chapters isn't even right. She wasn't unloading baggage or trying manipulate or whatever, she was reconnecting and reminiscing with an old friend while probably having some deeper feelings sitting in her subconscious for her that made her think about the shit they used to do that made her happy. From a story perspective it's beyond clear she actually still does like Maki, even if she's not aware of it. But you've demonstrated through your desire to play devil's advocate for Tazune and ignoring the fact that he's been throwing up red flags that he's abusive since his introduction that you really don't know how to analyze media, so I guess this makes sense.

People aren't being sexist for pointing out how a patriarchy and the people who are the dominate group in it tend to be. It's politics and sociology dude. Also no one mentioned your dick dude. We're pointing out how you defended an abuser and continue to be obstinate and shit talk Midori still. Notice how none of us got mad about the other posts from guys giving their thoughts about it? We might've disagreed, but none of them are being like how you are about it, so there's the difference. But yeah sure. We're just being sexist.

joined Sep 13, 2018

It could be argued both Midori and Tazune are victims of equally their respective childhood traumas and gendered cultural expectations they don't know how (or care) to interpret in benign ways and lack the courage or will to buck.

I think this is a really interesting take. Especially when the way in which they reacted to their traumas really meld well into those gendered cultural expectations. While not exactly the same as in the West, gender roles aren't too different in Japan. It only makes sense that in response to trauma Tazune coped by seeking control and putting himself at the top of power dynamics and abused others with little care for empathy, a really unhealthy but very toxically masculine way of coping. Midori on the other hand folds into passivity, powerlessness, and acceptance, same notion applies and thus Midori becomes a victim of the misogynistic expectations for women.

Where it gets interesting imho is with Maki involved. Maki is clearly kind of atypical beyond just her being a lesbian. Her coworker noted that her job is heavily dominated by old men beyond her and the coworker. Her second time meeting Midori is also unique in that Maki attempts to heavily emphasize her femininity, something that while nice was really different to Midori and according to whoever that is at the end of chapter 1, clearly not something Maki does (And maybe something she doesn't even like to typically do). I'm curious to see if more will develop with this theme and Maki specifically. Like I don't think she's butch, but it is interesting to see Maki as resistant to those gendered expectations in more ways than one and I'm curious to see if more will develop with this theme and Maki specifically.


Midori IS an idiot. That much is a fact. And I said both characters were shitty and deserved each other. I never said she deserved to be abused. Paint the whole picture and don't lie by omission.

How is she an idiot other than she ended up in an abusive relationship and she didn't just toss her life away, outing herself, and then eloping with some woman she dated 10 years ago and ran into by chance while pregnant with her coworker's kid? Yeah, definitely an idiot move there. Nothing bad could've happened with the latter.

Yes they are wrong, unless you've done a ratio of men to women perspective on this forum? Besides, its quite hypocritical to hammer on about misogyny and then turn around and claim men sympathise with and excuse domestic abusers.

You're looking for the word survey, not ratio. And do you not look at the news? Men are way more willing to defend abusers. They might not even mean anything bad about it. They're just apart of the dominate group in a misogynistic culture that devalues women standing up for themselves and abuse has been normalized. No not all men, hell some of the comments clearly show that, but looking at how class dynamics work, men are more likely to stick up for men.

Nobody cares about Tazune. ... The most interesting thing about it has been the discussion board.

Nobody cares about him and yet you wanted to play devil's advocate? Why? Hell you didn't even play devil's advocate, you were like "Wow, can't believe people are mad at a guy they feel is abusive right after the chapter where it ends on him clearly about to start an affair. Gotta insult the person they think is an abuse victim!" Like do you have a chip on your shoulder because people had the nerve to defend some girl character and say "Hey things are looking like Midori's an abuse victim with some bad trauma and the circumstances around choices don't make her an a shitty person". The reason why people are still getting onto you about this is because you were being totally obstinate and antagonistic when several other people were saying "This is abuse, why are you defending what's clearly an abuser?"

It's realistic and as a lesbian I really enjoy stories about women struggling with comphet and finding a better life and love :V Maybe you don't really get that, but you clearly don't get a lot of things.


...and, to be very honest, i don't think being rejected by a few women and insulted by a bratty younger sister is even that big of a deal. the flashbacks weren't violent or anything.

Yeah, you don't actually understand basic psychology much.

Agreeing with Random here. Plus we got to keep in mind, this is all Battan decided to show. Chances are Tazune was bullied plenty in his youth, he was fat and surely people bullied him more and spread rumors about him being a creep or whatever. That sort of ostracization can lead to the sort of red pill type behavior when coupled with patriarchy.

last edited at Feb 26, 2020 3:41PM

joined Sep 13, 2018

Not saying that you're wrong but I think this chapter was focusing on why we should feel bad for him in a way, somehow this manga makes us feel bad for the people that we really shouldn't be feeling bad for as much as Maki. I guess instead of focusing on the character who's heart is broken, this manga is just to focus on the other characters instead.

I dunno, as someone who grew up in a way not to dissimilar to Tazune, I don't feel any sympathy to the prick for deciding women are his little playthings because he was bullied as a kid by them.

We'll get some more Maki perspective chapters I'm sure of it. We just swapped to her finally coming back into the plot because Midori sought her out/ran into her again. I wouldn't be surprised if chapter 7 is they seeing each other again, then Maki kind of expressing her feelings, then a flashback to after Midori said "we probably shouldn't keep seeing each other". Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't swap back to Midori til like, at least chapter 10 and we get plenty of Maki perspective and angst.

joined Sep 13, 2018

What in the world are people cheering for someone who just show domestical abuse ?

There are plenty of men on this forum

And to think somebody tried to get me banned just for saying people are too soft on the female characters.

You agreed with Tazune in saying Midori is 'just an idiot with a cute face' and said Midori deserves what's happening to her, then acted smug when you were given exactly what you wanted and shown from Tazune's perspective that he's an abusive shitheel and people expected a bit of humility after being so obstinate. Maybe it's not that people are 'too soft on the female characters'. :V

That said, I mean are they wrong? Men might find themselves sympathizing with Tazune for whatever reason, and I dunno, just see him as a rude But Not Abusive guy.

Beyond that, god I can't believe this thread for this series. After pages of victim blaming, saying Midori deserves what is happening to her, and arguing over whether or not a dude who's raising red flag after red flag is an abuser (I still don't even see why people would even care to defend him. He's not real, y'all.) And once we got a 100% clear From The Guy Himself perspective chapter that shows he's not just a mundane asshole, he's a misogynistic dipshit with some heavy chips on his shoulder, people act like it's some act of horrible story telling or whatever. Go find a different manga y'all, because this one clearly isn't

last edited at Feb 26, 2020 1:04AM

joined Sep 13, 2018

That probably was the reason ... than the "main characters".

I'd argue this is just rising conflict and basic story telling. Given how prior to this you literally have people going "Well he's bad but he's not abusive" and a bunch of other people saying "Uh, no he's already abusive" shifting it to showing how his psychological abuse can change to physical at a drop of the hat because he has a fragile ego. Hell, you're not even reading what happened in the backstory correctly. Like

"he has no respect for women since they were all over him once they decided he was hot. But it's not like Midori was after him for that reason, so it almost seems like a pointless addition."

is wrong. Chances are sure some women actually noticed him because he looked more handsome now, but it was him being a misogynistic shithead that leads to him thinking that's the only reason why women care about him and that women are his little play things to manipulate and use. Hell he probably thinks Midori only cares about him because he thinks all women are easy to manipulate and are shallow.

It's funny too, it doesn't remove tension because Midori is an abuse victim You're aware abuse victims can literally die before they really want to leave their abusers right? Hell, it's an incredibly tense chapter because with how it leaves off we're left going 'So how is Midori going to rationalize her abuser's behavior to herself and will it be the wake up call she needed? Is Tazune going to get worse?' and I fail to see how that's a failure to story telling.

Or if you're complaining about how this resolves the tension by saying 'Oh well now it's clear as day Midori will leave!', because if so, I don't know if we're reading the same series. It was obvious Maki and Midori end up together. It still focuses on and is about Midori and Maki, hell this chapter ends literally going back, unless if you somehow think that a perspective shift and a bit of history somehow makes this story about him, in which case I don't know if you've ever read a narrative with more than two characters and is more than a few chapters long. This stuff happens all the time in media so I really don't follow your issues here.

Actually. rereading.. some of my assumptions.

I feel like its a matter on picking up on red flags and reading into it because of those flags. Like someone pointed out before, prior to chapter 5 he was clearly an abuser if you knew what to look for, chapter 6 just cements that by showing how he's not just a manipulative shithead but he's a ticking time bomb too.

Don't feed the trolls.

Thank you for reminding me, Heavensrun.

Also thank you Blaastar in also noticing he's a PUA and not an incel :P

joined Sep 13, 2018

You gotta be clueless if you think I am defending domestic abuse. I just said, when the show goes the deep end this much there is only 1 thing left to do and that is shitpost

Given someone was complaining about people saying incel because its a "buzzword" and people have said "midori deserves him" is it really that much of a reach to assume yeah someone would root for a domestic abuser?

Also how's did it go to the deep end 'this much'? Its just a pretty realistic portrayal of abuse.

joined Sep 13, 2018

I don't mean idiot in a bad term here. She is a sympathic idiot. She do stupid things but that purely because she thought she will be happy. She is very naïve.

Is she even naïve though? Like think of it like this for a second. Everyone in your life tells you that in order to be happy and to belong in society you've got to... I don't know, basically only watch live action stuff for your media. A weird and very different topic in terms of severity, but hopefully a bunch of people who read yuri manga can relate. They can acknowledge in a de facto manor however, that as a kid you might not just like live action media, you like animated media too, sometimes you only really watch animated media. When you grow up though, you've got to grow up, which means no more of that stuff only live action from here on out. You look around too and some of your peers haven't seen an animated piece of media since they were 13, some proudly boasting and loving some recent live action movie released. You might still like animated media, but part of you is going to be saying "Well. I'm an adult now. All of those other adults seem to be able to ignore animated stuff. Some love those live action films too, so I've got to be like them or else I can't even talk to them and belong." And that last thing might especially sting, we're generally social creatures and crave some sense of belonging after all, god forbid you have a deeper psychological need for it because of whatever reason. So eventually, after giving up animated stuff (that you still liked and still think of) and being unable to find something for so long to even talk about with your peers well into your adulthood, you find something that at least resonates with you to get you watching it. The issue is, it's not good even if you're invested, but on top of youe own feelings everyone else is talking about how it's a good show/movie so you nod your head and smile slowly letting yourself become further invested in it even if you really don't like it because you want to belong. Of course there's also an animated show that lights you up, its fun, interesting, you actually really enjoy it, but you can never talk about it, god forbid it get you alienated from your peers. Are you really naïve because you just stomach media you don't really like for the sake of maybe this being happiness that everyone else has or the notion that you'll be happy like everyone else one day or at you just a sad part of a society wide issue?

The analogy doesn't hold up perfectly of course, media can't abuse you. It can't dig its hold into you and hold you there with unbalanced power dynamics. Midori is just a sad victim of both personal abuse and societal wide compulsory heterosexuality. Hell for all she knew Maki was going to be like she was, wanting to move on and belong in a difficult world. It didn't have any malice because Maki was going to grow up like she was growing up and forget all about this love that's not really accepted but quietly allowed in the youth of girls in Midori's head. It's why she was so fine with reliving them in chapter 1, I imagine. It's all just reminiscing about silly stuff they did while kids. It's a tragedy of societal wide compulsory heterosexuality and that just seems clear as day to me. Not naivety, but a sad reality for so many women and it's why I like this series a lot.

joined Sep 13, 2018

LOOOOOOOOOL this is actually the best manga I've seen, it went so much off the deep end that it started to turn good. Tazune is based as fuck and Midori deserves everything that's coming to her. Maybe,just maybe Midori will grow into a competent human being by the end. But i'll remain doubtful.

Yes! Go, go Team Tazune!

What in the world are people cheering for someone who just show domestical abuse ? Even if she is an idiot, Midori doesn't deserve any of this Nobody should deserve to be victim of domestical abuse Can't believe those comments as still here. The thing is remain doubtful is that mister Shitty Husband will face any consequences of that. So far i don't see anything screaming good end.

She's not even an idiot. For folks invested in stories about gay women (as that's whats mostly on Dynasty Scans), the fact that what happened with Maki and Midori is 100% a Class S scenario, a real thing that's also used a lot in yuri, and folks insist on going "God what an idiot! She's an asshole too!" rather than see it as the sad tragedy of comphet that it is is absurd to me.

As for the folks you quotes, idk, they just seem like jackasses (Unless if the second one is being deeply Ironic which I feel is a possibility :V)