Forum › Yoru to Umi discussion

Nyarin
joined Mar 20, 2012

Yeah, yeah, deep philosophizing about the nature of relationships between women, but I just really want to see some happy and healthy wlw couples.

Bard_smol
joined Jun 12, 2021

Most of the website is that already.

0ee2c60a-7956-404b-9118-b3d2a41bdeae
joined Dec 7, 2020

I wanted to like this one and I still sorta do, but it’s simply not that great. If not for the beautiful art and striking marine imagery that allows you to drown with Tsukiko, I would’ve not have gotten all the way through this story. While reading this, there was a prevailing question of, “What’s the point?” There isn’t enough development for the side characters (especially love bird girl and glasses) and they end up being a waste of time IMHO. The focus should’ve been on either the main pair or the height gap theatre pair, which were actually pretty nice. The dialogue and numerous monologues are vague and confusing to the point where I think the author leaves too much text out. But the real problem lies within the main duo.

Like many others, I believe this story falls flat because of the lack of progression seen in Aya and Tsukiko’s dynamic and relationship. Individually, they’re good characters and I like their relationship—how Tsukiko slowly becomes more and more interested in Aya and how Aya reaches out to Tsukiko but never goes too far. This stagnant relationship built out of mutual distance from one another, occasionally stirred by small steps to close that distance or life itself, is almost compelling but falls flat. It ends up unfulfilling at best, dull and infuriating at worst. I think this can be attributed to how simply disinterested Aya and Tsukiko themselves are at their own relationship. Apart from the vague I’m friends with her because she’s kinda interesting, their reasons for being with each other don’t change nor are developed at all. Also, they don’t show much affection or intimacy, even on a friendship level. They remain awkward and stilted throughout the entire series. Tsukiko especially, all Tsun and no dere. Aya too, who is too careful and ends up further maintaining their stagnant gap. This could’ve been explored as Aya fearing that closing the distance might harm their delicate relationship, but the ending chalks it up to simple disinterest. This awkwardness combined with no direction toward real affection and intimacy results in their friendship not really working. In fact, since neither of them put much work into growing or keeping the relationship, it feels outright artificial. A romantic relationship would be completely out of the question.

The ending is by far the worst part about this series. Most frustrating about it is how they end up separating (a product of their lack of interest in maintaining their relationship) and are only reunited by circumstance. They don’t even try to seek each other out and are so meh about finding each other again, it’s hard to feel anything. The ending is bland and uninteresting and is almost a microcosm for the problem with Tsukiko and Aya. Neither of them are invested in their relationship yet it stays alive. It never grows and remains perfectly stagnant. If there’s no point for them to be invested in their relationship, why should we?

I like Sol Falling’s analysis but just wish the stuff you described were better presented and more prominent in the series proper.

I’ll have to read this again sometime, maybe it gets a lot better knowing everything. Regardless, I hope the author continues to make more Yuri (wouldn’t mind extra material to this series tbh) because their art is gorgeous and their writing, while confusing, can be fairly interesting.

Lumg21
joined Jan 6, 2020

I liked it, thank you for the translation!

joined May 28, 2021

This was a colossal waste of time.

Gyerin200
joined Sep 6, 2011

This was a colossal waste of time.

Indeed.

Thinkamen
joined Oct 26, 2018

Aside from the people that are just mad they didn't start rawdogging for 40 pages in the final chapter, the analysis in the comments is probably the most interesting part of this story for me

Butt
joined Sep 26, 2020

I liked this. I'll put it on the shelf between Tomoko Yamashita and Takako Shinamura, so it can hang out with its ambiguous, ambivalent friends. Sometimes a story is just a story, you know?

Nevri Uploader
Rosmontis
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

othiym23 posted:

Sometimes a story is just a story, you know?

That was the biggest nothing statement I read in quite a while.

salaima: Great post summarizing all my issues with this story. It just felt like 1 big waste of time that went nowhere. A real shame cos I really liked art and characters, especially Tsukiko, but I just read every new chapter waiting for something to finally happen or their relationship finally change in any meaningful way and I ended up being disappointed every single time.

EDIT/ I guess you could say "You were supposed to read it just for their relationship, like slice of life" and while I definitely like reading stories like that purely focused on characters dynamics, this one felt just too uneventful and repetitive to really give me any enjoyment from it after like first couple of chapters I really enjoyed.

last edited at Jun 24, 2021 2:38PM

BlurredExistence
Blurred
joined Jan 31, 2013

I think this was more art than story tbh but i still feel like it was a powerful experience and so not a waste of time.

Still i would've preferred a more conclusive ending.

Nevri Uploader
Rosmontis
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

xxcindybeexx posted:

People go into this expecting more because it's tagged yuri. This honestly should have subtext instead, and you'd see very different comments.

It is tagged Subtext though and it was when I started reading it, so it definitely wasn't changed recently.

20220816_233853
joined Feb 17, 2021

xxcindybeexx posted:

People go into this expecting more because it's tagged yuri. This honestly should have subtext instead, and you'd see very different comments.

It is tagged Subtext though and it was when I started reading it, so it definitely wasn't changed recently.

It was definitely tagged yuri for a long time.

Okay story, beautiful art, but I was in it for yuri. I don't know when they changed the tag, but the yuri tag was why I started it.

LaPucelleOnGirls
La%20pucelle%2004
joined Apr 12, 2021

Oh, does this has a proper yuri tag in the official release?

458109179479982080
joined Mar 8, 2020

xxcindybeexx posted:

People go into this expecting more because it's tagged yuri. This honestly should have subtext instead, and you'd see very different comments.

It is tagged Subtext though and it was when I started reading it, so it definitely wasn't changed recently.

nah, it was tagged as Yuri from start to finish, so it got changed to Subtext some hours after the last chapter got posted

last edited at Jun 24, 2021 6:22PM

Butt
joined Sep 26, 2020

That was the biggest nothing statement I read in quite a while.

Okay, let me put it a different way: I don't think this was a story that was intended to "progress" in the way that people here are disappointed in it for not doing. It's a character study of two people, and as such isn't really concerned with plot or drama (in the sense of events driving the story towards resolution). Think Raymond Carver, Haruki Murakami, or Joyce Carol Oates. It doesn't end very far from where it started, it doesn't resolve, but we know a lot more about the two people at the center of it. It's not functional – there's no catharsis, there's no happy ending, it's not a romance. It's just a mood piece. I happen to really like that mood, and to enjoy the particular way in which it refuses to resolve.

Without the lavish art, without the nonlinear storytelling, without the profusion of visual metaphors and extremely subjective depiction of what everybody is seeing – if it's just the dialogue and internal monologues of the characters – then it's a dry depiction of two people halfassedly trying and equally halfassedly failing to connect. With all that stuff, it becomes much more emotional and vivid.

And for me, that's enough. It doesn't need to end in a relationship, or even a friendship. It's clear that the two women mean something to each other, even if they don't know how (or don't want) to articulate it. I happen to think that the way things play out shows that the two have come to understand each other in a way that nobody else in their lives does, and that is in its way a precious thing. But that's just my interpretation. What's on the page doesn't seem to be overly concerned with sending a definite message.

last edited at Jun 25, 2021 2:11AM

Image_2022-10-30_015926894
joined Jun 3, 2021

reading this knowing how it ends is definitely a different experience (in like, a really nice “how nice. good for them” sorta way). i can understand why people feel like its a waste of paper, and sometimes you can sign up for the wrong thing. sorry to those who were tricked by the initial ‘yuri’ tag.
hopefully people can come back to this manga and feel the same way i did reading this.

TheDudeThatExists
Screenshot_20200407_211356
joined Feb 21, 2020

Well tbh, I enjoyed this series a lot and I love Tsukiko, Aya, and their relationship with each other, however awkward and tense it may seem. The art is fantastic and I personally think it’s well-written. Don’t know why, but it makes me think of Adachi and Shimamura, LOL.

That's also what I thought when reading this. It was pretty nice, even though it's not really yuri and more "subtext".

TheDudeThatExists
Screenshot_20200407_211356
joined Feb 21, 2020

Aya's many different facial expressions were amazing lol. Made the manga even better.

Miki_closeup
joined Mar 20, 2014

Well, that was stupid.

Is it just me, or is has there been an an increase in yuri-baiting manga like this one over the last few years? I really wonder what causes this. Is it authors getting cold feet? Editorial meddling? Or maybe just plain-old cynicism, reeling readers in with some romantic premise, only to bail out in the end? There could even be some deeper sociological factors at play here. Heck, I would like someone more knowledgeable than me about Japanese culture to figure out this odd phenomenon.

joined Jun 6, 2021

yuri-baiting manga like this one

This manga wasn't advertised by the author or by the publisher as yuri. It got tagged as yuri by some scanlators and scanlation sites that made a leap.

It was the story of two girls. I don't see that every story about two girls has to be yuri, that every story about two girls that isn't yuri needs to have a notice, that every story about two boys has to be yaoi, that every story about two boys that isn't yaoi needs to have a notice, that every story about a boy and a girl needs to be about a heterosexual relationship as such, nor that every story about a boy and a girl that isn't about a heterosexual relationship as such needs to have a notice.

Miki_closeup
joined Mar 20, 2014

yuri-baiting manga like this one

This manga wasn't advertised by the author or by the publisher as yuri.

I don't see how that is in any way relevant. The manga clearly presents a two girls who obviously have deeper feelings for each other, only for the author introduce an artificial relationship ceiling that makes little sense within the story itself.

It was the story of two girls.

One of which clearly enjoys seeing the other in her swimsuit, while the other girl enjoys the view of the first girl's legs in the water while she is swimming. Hmmm.. now what could be going on there?

I don't see that every story about two girls has to be yuri

You might have a point if this this was a story about two girls talking about homework, but it clearly went beyond that. Now I admit that stories like these tend to introduce massive amounts of plausible deniability, but that's simply a way for the author to wriggle out of committing to an actual romance. It would be much harder to do if the author simply had the girls openly confess their feeling for each other (although not even that is a guarantee).

last edited at Jun 27, 2021 10:08AM

joined Jun 6, 2021

This manga wasn't advertised by the author or by the publisher as yuri.

I don't see how that is in any way relevant.

That's silly. It would be relevant if it were advertised as yuri, and thus it is relevant that it was not.

The manga clearly presents a two girls who obviously have deeper feelings for each other,

Deep feelings don't have to be sexual or romantic.

only for the author introduce an artificial relationship ceiling that makes little sense within the story itself.

It makes fine sense if you recognize more than one dimension of possibilities.

It was the story of two girls.

One of which clearly enjoys seeing the other in her swimsuit, while the other girl enjoys the view of the first girl's legs in the water while she is swimming. Hmmm.. now what could be going on there?

Not what you'd hoped.

I don't see that every story about two girls has to be yuri

You might have a point if this this was a story about two girls talking about homework, but it clearly went beyond that.

Again, there is more than one dimension of possibilities. One person can like another so much that she'd die for him, without sexual or romantic desire, or be overwhelmed with such desire without being willing to die for him.

Sana-min
joined Jun 1, 2020

This was a colossal waste of time.

Indeed.

Same here

Sana-min
joined Jun 1, 2020

Tbh, It was very confusing narrative in my opinion. I didn't understand all of it.

Me%20now%20-%20copy
joined Feb 11, 2013

A comfy read~ The scenarios felt real but also.. not (mainly due to the setting). Kinda hard to explain, but I suppose that's how it is with most of these introspective stuff. It sort of helped that I can somewhat relate with Tsukiko and her emotional constipation regarding her relationship with Aya. I've had a lot of frienships that, while fun while they lasted, I didn't really feel the need to include them in my future. And I think that if I do meet these people again by chance, I'd have the same nonchalant reaction as they did. Although I guess it's not the same for everyone.

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