This is nonsense—the first arranged marriage didn’t “foreshadow” anything. After that matter was resolved early on, nothing in the plot indicated to readers that an arranged het marriage for Mei was still a ongoing live issue until it emerged again full-blown, pulled out of Sarubouta’s ass.

There was literally dialogue explaining that arranged marriage was the norm for that social sphere.

I know it is considered a bit tired to bring up the cultural thing, but it is a big factor here

This is entirely missing the point—that dialogue about the so-called “norm” was an obvious after-the-fact patch to excuse the late-series plot ass-pull.

I meant early in chapter 1 where when they first meet, Harumi mentions Mei's engagement then dismisses Yuzu's shock on the basis that it is just expected of someone in Mei's position. Then again in chapter 2 she mentions many of the girls having fiances (in the context of playing around with other girls while they can).

Obviously, any regular reader of manga will be familiar with the “ojou-sama/arranged marriage” trope—sometimes it’s used in regard to a given social stratum, and sometimes it’s not.

And sometimes it’s brought up once and then disposed of, as was unequivocally done in Chapter 4 of the main series, when the grandfather, after describing how he was too harsh and inattentive regarding his granddaughter, says to Mei,

“It’s time for you and you alone to decide how to live your life.” (Emphasis in the original)

The engagement was "resolved" a full chapter earlier (end ch2), consider instead that the conversation was, unsurprisingly, about the arc that filled the chapter immediately leading up to it: it was about his impulse to lock Mei away (and expel Yuzu) afterwards to keep her safe, instead of trusting her judgement, and the only result was letting her return to her new home (if she wanted to), and associate with Yuzu again.

Given his calm reaction it is a safe bet Mei didn't tell him the whole truth about the sexual tension between them (certainly not Yuzu's enthusiasm for it), even if Mei took him at his word, that would limit the scope. The very fact that he had to tell her shows how Mei is governed more by what she thinks is expected of her than by actual demands.

In-universe, there was absolutely no kind of foreshadowing whatsoever that a requirement that Mei marry someone for the sake of the family fortune was still in effect after the departure of Sensei McRapey. Grandpa doesn’t say, “For now,” or “until we need the cash flow,” or anything remotely like that. In subsequent volumes there are no cryptic cues or flashes of clandestine meetings or anything else in the body of the text to indicate that an arranged marriage for Mei is still on the table until it suddenly comes out of nowhere in Chapters 32-33.

Sensei McRapey was a gold-digger, it wasn't about the Aihara's needing money, it was continuing the family legacy (running the academy, satisfying the board and producing the next generation - the classic Asian thing about your role/duty in the fabric of society, taking up the baton handed down by n generations of your ancestors etc).

In ch25 Mei literally asks herself what she is doing, I'm not sure it would be possible to telegraph reservations more clearly than that. In chapter 26 she pauses looking at herself in the mirror (complete with a "..." speech bubble), another moment of obvious self-doubt.

Even temporarily granting for the sake of argument the premise that the arranged marriage was part of Saburouta’s plan all along, that makes the whole “ring acceptance” arc a deep indictment of Mei’s personal integrity; her failure to be truthful turns the ring exchange into a cruel prank played on Yuzu’s emotions, exponentially compounded by the vicious irony that Mei’s Intended eventually turns out to be the very manager who urges Yuzu to go all-out in buying the rings and expressing her emotions.

It was only in ch28 (after various "tests" earlier) Mei finally concluded she was in love with Yuzu (which is why she was finding herself unable to resist doing things she knew she shouldn't).

(I don’t think that’s at all the case, of course—I believe the couples-ring arc was supposed to be just as romantic as it seemed at the time, and that Manager-san was later dragged into the arranged-marriage plot fiasco because he was established as such a benign figure that it would be plausible for him to give Mei and Yuzu his blessing when Mei inevitably jilted him.)

Manager was introduced not as a background sketch in Yuzu's job, but as a full character, deliberately linked in to Matsuri as well. From a writing perspective it is not something you would do unless you intended a role for that character later - his character was created for a purpose. There is no reason to believe that purpose was anything other than the one he did have: the engagement was planned into the story just as far back as the ring arc (and Manager was created for that arc). I've previously mentioned Mei's obvious reservations when she was comforting Yuzu by agreeing they could be together, the rings where never meant to be the romantic finish-line.

The ring arc isn't any less romantic for being doomed... Mei fell hard for Yuzu despite "knowing" it was impossible, and despising her own weakness in being unable to stop.

If characters operated with perfect self-knowledge and honestly, no romance plot would last longer than a few lines.

It can't be over-emphasized that climatic conflict of the original Citrus series was predominantly of Mei's making. We have never seen any sign that her grandfather ordered her to get married, or even told her it was needed.

Mei's tendency to over-achieve in obedience isn't new. Even in the first chapter we see that Mei is passively accepting her fiance's misbehavior in the interests of harmony/propriety... even though as it turned out that behavior was definitely not something her grandfather would approve of (it shocked him so much he over-compensated by having her move to his house).

Her grandfather arranged the interview, because that is how it is done, and Mei being Mei, turned up and agreed to everything because she believed that was the way it had to be, that it was her duty and the only way to maintain the academy (and the second engagement was basically a repeat, except second time around she was more personally invested in it for her own ambition at the academy, and the candidate was less objectionable).

Even the urgency of the climax, Mei's rushed marriage, was requested by Mei herself in an attempt to outrun her doubts.

^ In your strained insistence on the perfection of Sarubouta’s plotting and on the consistency of Mei’s characterization, Mei becomes a horrifyingly duplicitous and profoundly weak-willed emotional user, and Yuzu the victimized rescuer of a partner who is utterly unworthy of being rescued.

That reading, as I’ve said, comes only with the effort of hand-waving away what the text actually says, and by ignoring Sarabouta’s inept structuring and pacing of the bulk of the series. As in previous series, you have devoted much more mental energy to cleaning up an author’s mess than that author obviously invested in the work itself.

last edited at Dec 28, 2020 3:23AM

And sometimes it’s brought up once and then disposed of, as was unequivocally done in Chapter 4 of the main series, when the grandfather, after describing how he was too harsh and inattentive regarding his granddaughter, says to Mei,

“It’s time for you and you alone to decide how to live your life.” (Emphasis in the original)

The engagement was "resolved" a full chapter earlier (end ch2), consider instead that the conversation was, unsurprisingly, about the arc that filled the chapter immediately leading up to it: it was about his impulse to lock Mei away (and expel Yuzu) afterwards to keep her safe, instead of trusting her judgement, and the only result was letting her return to her new home (if she wanted to), and associate with Yuzu again.

you´re dismissing a direct quote from the manga and giving it the meaning that fits your narrative, at that point the misunderstanding was already clear he already told yuzu that se wasn´t gonna be expelled, the conversation was clearly about inheriting the school and the marriage

It was only in ch28 (after various "tests" earlier) Mei finally concluded she was in love with Yuzu (which is why she was finding herself unable to resist doing things she knew she shouldn't).

that doesn´t make mei look any better, if that was the case she kept doing thing despite knowing that she was gonna hurt yuzu
either mei was aware of the engament from the beggining,hurt yuzu consiously and saburo uta is a genuis or she didn´t and was a vitciim of the situation and couldn´t say no (wich makes her love for yuzu questionable but at least plausible)
you can´t have both

last edited at Dec 28, 2020 8:52AM

So Mei is either a stoic or a mean lady. Guess we'll never know. I still want Yuzu to express herself and her lamentations against Mei. I still want Mei to state in plain terms what she wants. But whatever.

Mei is either uncommunicable, dumb, or a witch. LOL. Yuzu is a doormat, lazy or a fraud. I guess I look for that one honest moment where they connect and truly understand each other, that's what drives me crazy, the deception going back to that summer where Yuzu was kissing Mei in the halls during summer school and they were full-on in love.

I just wish their souls would find each other and understand each other, that's what I want. If for no other reason than my man brain wants logical, common sense.

This constant 'missing each other's meaning' drives me completely nuts.

last edited at Dec 28, 2020 3:14PM

This constant 'missing each other's meaning' drives me completely nuts.

If only they had, like, a daily opportunity to talk to each other privately.

LOL

Mei is either uncommunicable, dumb, or a witch. LOL. Yuzu is a doormat, lazy or a fraud. I guess I look for that one honest moment where they connect and truly understand each other,

i think the "perfect date notebook "arc was suposed to be that moment, when i started reading it i was like "yes this is it chief" for me that was the perfect moment to expose and fix the fundametal flaws on their relatioship. flesh out mei, give her a personality and agency on the story
Mei wanting to change for yuzu and triying to be her ideal partner was something i legit didn´t expect and really raise my hopes, sadly nothing actually changes because mei is perfect and doesn´t need to change a thing

last edited at Dec 28, 2020 8:58PM

Guys when will be release the next volume?
At least, is there some site or group where someone tells the news about the manga? Release date and this kind of things? I only find sites that don't even know what Citrus+ is...

you´re dismissing a direct quote from the manga and giving it the meaning that fits your narrative, at that point the misunderstanding was already clear he already told yuzu that se wasn´t gonna be expelled, the conversation was clearly about inheriting the school and the marriage

And you (and others) are parroting an out-of-context quote as a universal truth, like deranged biblical literalists. I was going to just let this lie, since Blastaar can be intractable, but since a couple more of you have come out, here goes.

Don't get me wrong, in the broad sense grandfather obviously did mean what he said, since he seems to have accepted Mei and Yuzu's engagement without too much fight, but in terms of actions and events between that declaration and the end of the series there is a lot of important context.

Ascribing meaning to a quote shorn of context is always a dicey proposition (even more so in a translation, but at least that doesn't seem to be the issue here), so I'm going to talk about the scene - grandfather has had an epiphany and is trying to communicate it to the girls.

In addition to the simple literal meaning of his words, there are multiple threads of meaning here eg
* his regret/repentance for his actions, which is relevant for his future actions (mostly unsaid but implied... and what y'all are banking on re arranging marriage interviews)
* his meaning to Mei and his thoughts behind it
* what Mei understood from it (this is kind of significant).

In terms of his repentance, he clearly did repent of the controlling hand high-handed way he had reacted, sending men to take Mei back to his house and banishing Yuzu, not giving a choice. But there is no reason to he would see consenting to a marriage interview (most likely they were approached by managers family, or connected by a matchmaker) as the same thing, especially having given her the choice speech. He gave her the choice to move out of his house back to Yuzu... but he didn't move her out of his house preemptively.

You are bringing this cultural baggage of seeing arranged marriage a cruel, forced and objectifying thing, when in its most benign form it is not much different from a dating service. You meet people with compatible backgrounds and values with the support of both your familes, for some people it can be a blessing. The whole (spontaneous) "true love" obsession, where anything else is failure or injustice, is a very narrow cultural view. Grandfather himself probably had an arranged marriage, probably "chose" it in some sense, and probably was happy. For him it would be the status quo, until Mei chose otherwise.

His meaning we've come to see was pretty much in alignment with his words, but his actual thoughts at the time would have been more specific. We can also be certain that the idea of Mei choosing to marry Yuzu never crossed his mind - and Mei would know that. It is clear that the realization that Mei was passively submitting to abuse, "for" him and the school, frightened him (and goes some way to explaining his assumption about the situation with Yuzu). He meant she didn't have to accept what was put in front of her, or feel obligated to sacrifice herself for him or the school; he didn't mean he was going to stop offering options or take away things she was already doing (like being involved in the school administration).

As for what Mei too away, here is a classic - when you tell a child they can be/do whatever they want with their life, it isn't some sort of universal guarantee. They can't not study, drop out of school and expect to become a neurosurgeon, that's not on the table, it isn't even in the parents power to offer.

Mei chose running the academy as her ambition, and in her mind a suitable marriage was just part of that, like studying is part of becoming a doctor. While from her grandfather's perspective Mei was offered the marriage and appeared to be eager (and you can bet he vetted Manager very, very thoroughly) he had no idea she was in a relationship with Yuzu.

The thing with Grandpa is the perfect example of the cultural differences between the American and the Japanese readers of the series. For the American readers, the fact Mei was still in an engagement comes off as poor writing when in reality, that was something that was always present according to the Japanese customs, and yeah, from his perspective, he was only doing what was the best for his granddaughter by ensuring she was together with someone who would support her, unlike Amemiya.

Yes, it was wrong for Mei to not say anything to Yuzu but that is also part of her characterization. Mei is striving first and foremost to uphold the family traditions as a means to make up for what she perceived was a failure on Shou's part so she didn't know what to do but to run from Yuzu. Ironically, this meant she also made the exact same mistake as Shou did.

This constant 'missing each other's meaning' drives me completely nuts.

If only they had, like, a daily opportunity to talk to each other privately.

We saw how that went, Yuzu ran away rather than talking about what she wants.

It seems like she is afraid - she has seen how far Mei will sacrifice herself for a cause, and the last thing she wants is to see Mei hurting herself even more to please her or even worse as some sort of atonement.

last edited at Dec 29, 2020 8:47PM

^ In your strained insistence on the perfection of Sarubouta’s plotting and on the consistency of Mei’s characterization, Mei becomes a horrifyingly duplicitous and profoundly weak-willed emotional user, and Yuzu the victimized rescuer of a partner who is utterly unworthy of being rescued.

This goes rather beyond the post I've quoted, relating to the general theme of many posts by multiple posters, but I thought I should at least provide one as context.

Put simply, at the most fundamental level, I can't see what the big deal is.

I'm not blind to the problem of hand-waving a characters misdeeds away; eg I honestly can't understand why the She-Ra fandom are so quick to forgive Catra (hunting her, waging war, destruction, death, and the sadistic glee she took in it all), but what we have been arguing about here seems trivial. I can't see why people are determined to take missteps in one incident and see it as damning and definitive condemnation of a character's entire, uh, character.

It isn't even some cynical middle aged businessman systematically gas-lighting his wife when he gets caught out on his habitual cheating for the 20th time. This is inexperienced teenagers falling in love for the first time, negotiating the challenges of a relationship for the first time. They're clueless and they are meant to be clueless.

Mei undoubtedly "did wrong", she made some poor (weak/selfish) choices. But bad decision making is in the job description for teenager.

Falling in love she found herself being drawn into something wonderful that she couldn't resist and didn't quite understand. And yes a little selfishly she went along with it and kept her reservations to herself.

But here is an analogy for you - if she had been dying with only 6 months to live and decided to keep that sadness out of the relationship... would you then be branding her as a total asshole for dying in the end?

Mei thought she was faced with two options - choose Yuzu and an unknown future losing the academy and her role/destiny, or choose the school (and marriage) losing Yuzu. "Making up" another option was not a choice she thought she had.

And when she made the choice to leave, she didn't realize how much it would hurt Yuzu, she didn't even realize how much she would hurt herself.

She saw Yuzu as a strong, resilient, happy person, surrounded by friends and with a life full of love, why would she even imagine the loss of someone as flawed and damaged as herself would hit so hard. She hoped Yuzu would be happy, she said as much in her letter. She had no idea how much Yuzu was hurting because she was too wrapped up in her own pain, avoiding all contact with her. Minding other people's feelings is a complicated skill that we learn as we get older (not always perfectly even then).

If people can't stand immature behavior, I'm not sure why they would read stories about high school students.

tbh more than the couple themselves it reflects badly on their friends and family that in 6 months with both of them obviously heartbroken none of them tried to help (though props to Himeko for finally reaching out to Yuzu when she feared Mei was going to do something crazy).

By accepting Yuzu's proposal Mei acknowledged she was wrong, she knows she caused pointless suffering for both of them. Yuzu insisting on rubbing it in would just be sadistic. Yuzu doesn't end up looking great either; not for forgiving, but for waiting so long. She knew Mei is a self-sacrificing idiot, and even without that it would have been sensible to confront Mei and clear the air earlier (for closure).

Yuzu certainly wouldn't wish for Mei to have done "the right thing" and never fallen in love in the first place - because she wasn't available - that is what the real moral high road looks like.

The apology/atonement focus puzzles me too. If you believe in someone you try to see the best in them, and if you have lost all faith in their honesty and good intentions then any apology is just more lies. Apologies are nice and considerate, but they aren't as powerful as people think - any power they have comes from the intent and feeling behind them, not the words.

In terms of "making things right", no, the reconciliation didn't fix everything, Yuzu is still hurt, and they are both walking on eggshells. Based on what we have seen of Yuzu's personality, I'd say most of all she is hurt by seeing that someone she loves and thought she understood would hurt themselves like that, that Mei thinks so little of her own happiness that she would do what she did out of some misguided belief it was necessary. Yuzu is insecure not because she needs to know that Mei cares for her, but because she needs to know that Mei cares for herself. It's not something that Yuzu can order her to do, and it is not something that Mei can just say (interesting, realized as I wrote this, that this perspective makes Mei's declaration to the board even more significant, showing though action that she is pursuing her own ambitions while including Yuzu).

Edit: in summary it feels like the heartfelt rants about deception, betrayal and people being doormats or lying manipulators are a lot bigger than an arc in silly teen drama story; it feels like in a dramatic cliche terms I should be asking "Who hurt you?".

last edited at Dec 29, 2020 10:38PM

But here is an analogy for you - if she had been dying with only 6 months to live and decided to keep that sadness out of the relationship... would you then be branding her as a total asshole for dying in the end?

This is a fine example of your characteristic tendentious argumentation—the bizarre lengths to which you will go to explain away lazy, unfocused writing and inconsistent characterization.

If you can’t see the difference between a person dying of a terminal illness and a person accepting a committed relationship with one person when they know they will be expected to marry someone else, we have no shared basis for further discussion.

The astonishing amount of energy you are willing to invest in order to rationalize poor writing and slipshod plotting makes it very clear that you value stories entirely as “emotional journeys” by the characters rather than as instances of narrative craft by professional creators of works of art.

last edited at Dec 30, 2020 8:07AM

OMG .. I can't wait for the next chapter ..

This would be a better series if the mains were replaced with Haru & Matsu...

Although the promotion of the anime might give people a different impression, Citrus is a romantic drama written for young women (primarily, at least)

Interesting... I've always wondered about Citrus' demographic. Just interested, how did you come to the conclusion? Is the Comic Yuri Hime mostly targeted at young women?

Bro Sayaka be looking like Tokaku from Akuma no Riddle lmao

Nene, you need to become a HaruMatsu shipper with the rest of us

Yoooo Matsuri just straight up kissed Harumin let's goooooo

Damn, looks like Mei lost the ring. Hopefully this gets resolved quickly because I want to see HaruMatsu development.

last edited at Jan 5, 2021 9:24AM

Does anyone one knows when will be the next update???????

Damn, looks like Mei lost the ring. Hopefully this gets resolved quickly because I want to see HaruMatsu development.

It feels like for 75% of the posters in this thread the reason to keep on reading is HaruMatsu - which is the only legit reason lol

last edited at Jan 5, 2021 5:22PM

Although the promotion of the anime might give people a different impression, Citrus is a romantic drama written for young women (primarily, at least)

Interesting... I've always wondered about Citrus' demographic. Just interested, how did you come to the conclusion? Is the Comic Yuri Hime mostly targeted at young women?

I could have sworn I'd seen it tagged as such, but the sources I checked don't seem to at the moment (except ebj below). I suppose Citrus has always "felt" very shoujo to me, so I filed it with things like Netsuzou Trap (at least Wikipedia does tag that one as shoujo).

In a niche like yuri I suspect a publication can't effort to be too specialized, but ebookjapan files Comic Yuri Hime related series under under shoujo/josei targeted manga so I guess it isn't totally in my head. (I also assume the now abandoned Comic Yuri Hime S male targeted spin-off was because they felt the original wasn't capturing that demographic).

Although the labeling division seems to run pretty deep in the Japanese industry, it isn't absolute, although often there is a recognizable shift in emphasis/tone. Citrus is also a bit tricky since it seems like the anime was targeted at a adult male demographic (I'd guess they are the ones with the money to burn on blurays and merch), sifting the direction and adding in fanservice.
It also overlaps with the author's gender and sexuality. I suppose it is one of those common cases in cultural dichotomies where although broad trends can be identified the spread of the choices is wider than the gap between them.

That said I usually feel like I can tell the difference: eg compare Citrus to Bloom into You (shounen targeted). Both are yuri written by women, but have quite different feels around gender and sexuality.

I could have sworn I'd seen it tagged as such, but the sources I checked don't seem to at the moment (except ebj below). I suppose Citrus has always "felt" very shoujo to me, so I filed it with things like Netsuzou Trap (at least Wikipedia does tag that one as shoujo). In a niche like yuri I suspect a publication can't effort to be too specialized, but ebookjapan files Comic Yuri Hime related series under under shoujo/josei targeted manga so I guess it isn't totally in my head. (I also assume the now abandoned Comic Yuri Hime S male targeted spin-off was because they felt the original wasn't capturing that demographic).

Thanks for the great reply! I know that in a niche like Yuri the categorizations are a bit more flexible than usual, but there is sometimes talk of seinen yuri or josei yuri etc. So I was always kinda curious where Citrus lands on that scale. Also funny that Netsuzou Trap would be filed under shoujo - how can (old-school) Naoko Kodama with the toxic relationship galore and Saburouta fit under the same roof? Haha

Although the labeling division seems to run pretty deep in the Japanese industry, it isn't absolute, although often there is a recognizable shift in emphasis/tone. Citrus is also a bit tricky since it seems like the anime was targeted at a adult male demographic (I'd guess they are the ones with the money to burn on blurays and merch), sifting the direction and adding in fanservice.

Lol as an adult male I actually found the anime less cringeworthy when I saw it compared to the manga, but this is obviously just my personal feelings and maybe in the few years or so between reading the first few chapters and seeing the anime I've just gotten more tolerant towards the bs. Saburouta's super-expressive faces just made those non-consensual scenes so intense. I actually instantly labeled the series as shonen/seinen due to the graphic non-consensual elements, but it seems that was just my own preconceptions at work, and the series did turn out to be very different in the end... I actually kinda liked the anime, but that's another story.

It also overlaps with the author's gender and sexuality. I suppose it is one of those common cases in cultural dichotomies where although broad trends can be identified the spread of the choices is wider than the gap between them.

Yeah, this is definitely one thing, but it's actually hard to for me to come up with a comparison since all Yuri I read/watch tends to be by female creators or based on their works. With the exception of Ikuhara Kunihiko maybe, but that's a pretty special case.

That said I usually feel like I can tell the difference: eg compare Citrus to Bloom into You (shounen targeted). Both are yuri written by women, but have quite different feels around gender and sexuality.

Yeah there is an obvious difference, but personally I've always felt that Bloom into You was just more mature - I was pretty surprised when I learned that it was published in a seinen magazine. Which isn't actually that surprising since I've understood that Yuri has been a relatively "regular" fixture in seinen for many years now. Anyway, I kinda just thought that BiY belonged into the same broad category as Citrus and they definitely did not target different genders, but now that you mention it there is a obvious difference in how straightforward Yuu and Touko are with their feelings compared to Yuzu and folks. In my culture (Northern Europe) it feels like a maturity and not a gender thing, but I guess it could be different in the Japanese cultural context. I guess Citrus does have a lot more of melodrama and all that swooning over the "epic first love" kind of thing, whereas in Bloom into You people everybody skipped the theatrics for the most part and just got straight down to business.

last edited at Jan 7, 2021 5:15PM

WHEN ARE MEI AND YUZU GONNA HAVE SEX
I’m dying to know it
Please Sabarouta don’t do this to me
I do not want to die. And not see this happen
It’s my last wish thank u
I’ve been reading citrus for many years reoccurringly
This couple is really all what I have
Please make it happen Sabarouta
Please reach this too Sabarouta
Thank u

last edited at Jan 7, 2021 5:35PM