Although I'm sure there will be a happy ending.

I don’t want to hope for one because I don’t want to raise my expectations.

That depend on what you consider a good ending.

A good ending would be that Sei and Aya don’t necessarily end up together but they deal with their issues and demonstrate character growth while Haruki respects Aya’s decisions.

A happy ending for me would be all that ^ but Sei and Aya are actually together.

The “Haruki gives zero shits about Aya’s privacy” comes through in the part where she seems to have invited her friends over to watch AYA TV from the window.

I know right? She didn’t tell Aya to close her window or anything.

You can still argue that Haruki is still in her "protect Aya" mode she start when they were younger. She maybe didn't understand how her feelings have interfered in their current relation.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 12:01PM

EDIT: This is kind of lost in translation, but Sei sometimes regresses to the speech pattern of a little girl whenever she and Aya does the dirty. As the translator, it's really hard to get those nuances carried over to English. This is also the reason why I believe that Sei is much, much more attached to Aya than it seems like when just reading the translations. I'm sorry I couldn't bring these nuances out, but that's pretty much impossible to do without making Sei sound like an idiot.

Curious how some of the dialogue would be if you chose to make her sound like an idiot, got any examples?

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 12:17PM

Her choices are definitely her own. It seems people gloss over the fact that she knows exactly what’s going on between her and Sei. Sei never promised her a real relationship and Aya herself proposes that Sei call out Yoru’s name instead of her own.

I would agree on that, but the thing here is that there is an unhealthy dynamic between them, solely from the fact that Sei is a teacher and has already been through her first love and she is fully developed emotionally. Sei knows the consequences first hand, yet she choses to drag Aya in. Aya realizes to a certain degree that this is wrong, but her emotional maturity is way behind Sei's and she hasn't developed the mechanisms to face situations like this.
Teenagers are inherently not on the same level and they lack emotional clarity compared to someone like Sei.
The fact that Aya agrees upon this, doesn't mean she is equipped to face it and even walk away. This is where Sei should protect her instead and not use her as emotional crunch.

The “Haruki gives zero shits about Aya’s privacy” comes through in the part where she seems to have invited her friends over to watch AYA TV from the window.

I know right? She didn’t tell Aya to close her window or anything.

You can still argue that Haruki is still in her "protect Aya" mode she start when they were younger. She maybe didn't understand how her feelings have interfered in their current relation.

I think what’s mostly coming into question is Haruki’s motivations for wanting to “protect Aya”. Based on her actions, some have concluded that she’s doing all this because she wants Aya for herself, giving absolutely no regard as to Aya’s own desires and what ultimately is the best for Aya and that’s the issue that doesn’t sit well with others.

The “Haruki gives zero shits about Aya’s privacy” comes through in the part where she seems to have invited her friends over to watch AYA TV from the window.

I know right? She didn’t tell Aya to close her window or anything.

You can still argue that Haruki is still in her "protect Aya" mode she start when they were younger. She maybe didn't understand how her feelings have interfered in their current relation.

I think what’s mostly coming into question is Haruki’s motivations for wanting to “protect Aya”. Based on her actions, some have concluded that she’s doing all this because she wants Aya for herself, giving absolutely no regard as to Aya’s own desires and what ultimately is the best for Aya and that’s the issue that doesn’t sit well with others.

I mean, it's a common question for Aya, Sei and Haruki. What did they want for their relation with the other. Did Aya still want to be friends with someone like Haruki and did she want her relation with Sei be purely substitue play ? Same for Sei, did she want her relation with Aya be only a replacement for her past relation with Yoru and did she want a proper relation with Aya. Also did she want to go back to Yoru if this one agree on or did she want to go over it ? For Haruki, it's more did she still want to pretend she is doing it fro protecting Aya as a friend or did she will admit she does it because she is jealous that Aya love another person than her.

EDIT: This is kind of lost in translation, but Sei sometimes regresses to the speech pattern of a little girl whenever she and Aya does the dirty. As the translator, it's really hard to get those nuances carried over to English. This is also the reason why I believe that Sei is much, much more attached to Aya than it seems like when just reading the translations. I'm sorry I couldn't bring these nuances out, but that's pretty much impossible to do without making Sei sound like an idiot.

Maybe you could leave a TL note at the end of the chapter for stuff like that. Like idk, "in x panel or x page, Sei says stuff like this, but the tone couldn't be carried over", and such
I think it'd be really interesting to know/think about

Curious how some of the dialogue would be if you chose to make her sound like an idiot, got any examples?

Chapter 10, Page 11-12

Datte datte
Aya ni chuushite morau no ureshikute...<3

This is kinda like saying:

But, but, Aya gave me a smoochie and made me so happy...<3

Ah, btw, this line made Aya so horny, she started touching herself. Might be a fetish of hers, lol.

Well, when you say that Sei didn't do it maliciously but rather she did it to confirm her suspicions, it does sound like you're partially excusing it. Despite that fact, I didn't quote your post specifically because I don't know your stance anyway, so I took this post as an opportunity to mention the phenomenon of people excusing the shady actions of a character because the manga itself is excusing them. It wasn't meant for you directly.

I see. I apologize too. I understand that people in fact, actually downplay Sei's actions to an absurd degree sometimes, but I can see where both "sides" here are coming from. I actually like all the main characters of this series, with all the curves and edges that come with them.

Well, for me at least, I want to let FLOWERCHILD-sensei to give us an interesting story, and people always doing the right and logical things doesn't make for a good read. This manga is a mess, a slow-motion car crash unfolding before our eyes, and I wouldn't have it any other way. All characters here are deeply flawed in different ways, but that's what made me even consider reading and translating this in the first place.

Maybe you could leave a TL note at the end of the chapter for stuff like that. Like idk, "in x panel or x page, Sei says stuff like this, but the tone couldn't be carried over", and such

Hm, actually, I decided against doing that. If I start doing it, there would be TL notes all over the manga, and at that point, I might as well just tell everybody to learn Japanese. The differences between the two languages is just too great, and that's mostly due to nuances and the Japanese language just being a language that leaves a lot to "implications." They really don't like completing their sentences for some reason, but the meaning still gets across all the same. It's actually pretty amazing. English doesn't really allow for that much freedom.

My posts keep being detected as spam for some reason. Any ideas why?

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 1:06PM

I would agree on that, but the thing here is that there is an unhealthy dynamic between them, solely from the fact that Sei is a teacher and has already been through her first love and she is fully developed emotionally. Sei knows the consequences first hand, yet she choses to drag Aya in. Aya realizes to a certain degree that this is wrong, but her emotional maturity is way behind Sei's and she hasn't developed the mechanisms to face situations like this.

When has Sei’s profession actually mattered between her and Aya? Even if she wasn’t a high school teacher, she might still be lusting after high school girls. It’s not like she’s Aya’s teacher and she’s pressuring her to do stuff so she can get a good grade.

Sei doesn’t see it as her using Aya. She believes they can both get something out of it; orgasms.

When she and Aya begin, Aya was unlike Sei who was already been in love with Yoru and after what we learned from Sei’s own experiences, it’s clear that she knows people can detach themselves and have sex without falling in love. I mean; she had sex with Yoru yet Yoru, to our current knowledge, did not fall for her.

Teenagers are inherently not on the same level and they lack emotional clarity compared to someone like Sei.

It’s the age that’s problematic for sure but assuming that just because Sei is older and has more experience therefore she should take the role of protector/guider for Aya is faulty.

Age doesn’t guarantee maturity. I think someone pointed that out before.

The fact that Sei is hung up on her high school love after so long and is engaging is illicit affairs with someone to deal demonstrates that Sei her self is unable to cope and find a healthy outlet.

Adults need assurances too. The desire for a partner who can offer safety, affection, assurance, comfort, intimacy, etc. does not evaporate automatically when we mature.

It might seem unfair; but due to Sei’s pain and her trauma, it seems like she’s the one more in need of comfort and assurance.

The fact that Aya agrees upon this, doesn't mean she is equipped to face it and even walk away. This is where Sei should protect her instead and not use her as emotional crunch.

Neither are currently equipped to deal with what’s going on with their lives.

And Sei, to her knowledge, does not know that Aya might be in love with her. Given her experience with Yoru and how Aya maintains these “boundaries” like leaving right after sex and not staying over for pillow talk, she has no reason to think that Aya caught romantic feelings for her.

She believes that she’s giving just what Aya wants, sexual relief as they both try to escape from their realities.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 1:36PM

Chapter 10, Page 11-12

Datte datte
Aya ni chuushite morau no ureshikute...<3

This is kinda like saying:

But, but, Aya gave me a smoochie and made me so happy...<3

Ah, btw, this line made Aya so horny, she started touching herself. Might be a fetish of hers, lol.

That is brilliant. You could have always done a translation note, though a bit late now. Not that I think it should be like that, but it maybe could have made her feel a bit more emotionally damaged.

I guess you're getting flagged as spam cause you're suddenly being quite active.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 1:32PM

I mean, it's a common question for Aya, Sei and Haruki. What did they want for their relation with the other. Did Aya still want to be friends with someone like Haruki and did she want her relation with Sei be purely substitue play ? Same for Sei, did she want her relation with Aya be only a replacement for her past relation with Yoru and did she want a proper relation with Aya. Also did she want to go back to Yoru if this one agree on or did she want to go over it ? For Haruki, it's more did she still want to pretend she is doing it fro protecting Aya as a friend or did she will admit she does it because she is jealous that Aya love another person than her.

I think most of the characters have just been acting without thought to their futures and much introspection to what they actually want.

As we go forward with the story, characters continue to realize things about themselves and as a result; the relationships they share with others and it’s dynamics begin to shift.

Aya tried so hard not to catch feelings from Sei so I don’t think she ever expected to fall for Sei. She definitely does not expect Sei will fall for her.

Sei was just looking for relief but she had no way of knowing that Aya would come when she texted her “I wanna go home”. She also had no way of knowing Aya would go to her house after her fight with Haruki. So I don’t think she expected there would be a deep emotional connection between her and Aya.

Haruki will probably confess her feelings.

There seems to be a congenital confusion on the Dynasty forums on the difference between “explanations” and “excuses.”

Many, many stories of all kinds depict poor choices and bad behavior by characters. Better developed stories allow insight into the reasons that the characters do the things they do, while many others don’t, or do so only sketchily.

The idea that perceiving why characters do wrong or misguided actions constitutes advocacy for or justification of that behavior by authors or readers in real life (and therefore it always needs to be called out, lest anyone fail to understand that bad things are bad) is quite baffling to me.

Can you explain in simpler words ?

Can you explain in simpler words ?

Not simple enough, it seems.

No, so you can explain or not ?

Adults need assurances too. The desire for a partner who can offer safety, affection, assurance, comfort, intimacy, etc. does not evaporate automatically when we mature.

Everyone has their own struggles and sometimes things they can't get over. From kids to elders. Does that mean they're all on the same level and bare the same responsibility?

No, so you can explain or not ?

What part did you not understand?

Can you explain in simpler words ?

Not simple enough, it seems.

This made me gasp af
But ight I'll give it a shot, I think Lilliwyt may have hiccups with English sometimes

There seems to be a congenital confusion on the Dynasty forums on the difference between “explanations” and “excuses.”

People in the Dynasty forums don't seem to understand that there's a different between explaining things and making excuses for things

Many, many stories of all kinds depict poor choices and bad behavior by characters. Better developed stories allow insight into the reasons that the characters do the things they do, while many others don’t, or do so only sketchily.

Lots of stories show characters making bad decisions and show bad behaviour. Better developed stories help readers understand the reasons why the characters behave that way. Some don't however, or don't do it well (not very in depth)

The idea that perceiving why characters do wrong or misguided actions constitutes advocacy for or justification of that behavior by authors or readers in real life (and therefore it always needs to be called out, lest anyone fail to understand that bad things are bad) is quite baffling to me.

What Blastaar finds puzzling*/difficult to understand: people thinking that those [explanations for why the characters behave the way they do] = [authors or readers defending or making excuses for that behaviour], which means that it always needs to be called out, as if people couldn't tell that bad things are bad

I hope it's not too weird/inaccurate of a dumbing down, Blastaar

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 3:39PM

I hope it's not too weird/inaccurate of a dumbing down, Blastaar

No, that gets the gist, although I'd say "puzzling" rather than "shocking." And that last part can't be simpler than what I said, can it? lol

An author depicting bad behavior, or readers understanding what makes a character do it does not mean "approving" of that behavior.

I hope it's not too weird/inaccurate of a dumbing down, Blastaar

No, that gets the gist, although I'd say "puzzling" rather than "shocking." And that last part can't be simpler than what I said, can it? lol

An author depicting bad behavior, or readers understanding what makes a character do it does not mean "approving" of that behavior.

Gotcha
And no idea, just swapped bits around, just in case it might help get the idea

But ight I'll give it a shot, I think Lilliwyt may have hiccups with English sometimes

English is not my mother tongue, neither do i understand it perfectly. There is also the fact that i don't like putting too much brainpower into understanding what someone said because that mich of a brain. Finally it's also because it's not the first time Blastaar complain about what peoples said.

I think i understand the grasp of it, not that want to discuss about it becauseit's too hard for my little brain.

But ight I'll give it a shot, I think Lilliwyt may have hiccups with English sometimes

English is not my mother tongue, neither do i understand it perfectly. There is also the fact that i don't like putting too much brainpower into understanding what someone said because that mich of a brain. Finally it's also because it's not the first time Blastaar complain about what peoples said.

I think i understand the grasp of it, not that want to discuss about it becauseit's too hard for my little brain.

Yeah, second and third+ languages can be a pain, that's fair

The general idea is just that offering an explanation doesn't mean that people think the actions are okay, that they don't necessarily need to be reminded that bad stuff is bad
"Sei behaves like this because this happened to her" =/= "It's okay for Sei to behave like this because this happened to her"
"I punched him because I was mad" =/= "It's okay for me to punch him because I was mad"

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 4:04PM

Can you explain in simpler words ?

Not simple enough, it seems.

I apologize for this, Lilliwyt. I thought you were being snarky, and got impatient.

I wouldn't want to insult someone who is working in a second language for their understanding.

Pretty much the only thing I can do in any another language is to order a beer.

Can you explain in simpler words ?

Not simple enough, it seems.

I apologize for this, Lilliwyt. I thought you were being snarky, and got impatient.

I wouldn't want to insult someone who is working in a second language for their understanding.

Pretty much the only thing I can do in any another language is to order a beer.

Ah no, don't misunderstand me. I still have a solid basis when it come to writing English (speaking is a different matter thought) but there are times when it's get too complicated to me because of how little i put effort to understand. Really, it wasn't the english the problem but it was more my general comprehension who was lacking. I can get pretty stupid sometimes.

last edited at Apr 26, 2020 4:45PM

Can you explain in simpler words ?

Not simple enough, it seems.

I apologize for this, Lilliwyt. I thought you were being snarky, and got impatient.

I wouldn't want to insult someone who is working in a second language for their understanding.

Pretty much the only thing I can do in any another language is to order a beer.

Ah no, don't misunderstand me. I still have a solid basis when it come to writing English (speaking is a different matter thought) but there are times when it's get too complicated to me because of how little i put effort to understand. Really, it wasn't the english the problem but it was more my general comprehension who was lacking. I can get pretty stupid sometimes.

I'll bear that in mind. Lol

No, the point is you were asking a serious question, and I should have known to answer it seriously. I will in the future.