I paid for the story in Lezhin and it was per chapter. But there is no way of knowing what the chapter is about before you check it out.

The author intent is clear but bias is preventing some from getting the message.

This story is about characters healing, about them growing. It’s about moving forward despite pain sustained from tragedies the characters experienced. It’s about finding happiness.

But some only see Seju. The majority of what has occurred to Sumin is grossly overlooked.

People refuse to accept Sumin’s pain and grief because all some see is the things she did to Seju during those 10 years.

Seju supporters are unable to sympathize with Sumin because their love for Seju is strong. Who could blame them since TG centered so much tragedy on her character. And some of it doesn’t make sense which is why I’m inclined to believe that Es0teric is correct. TG extended the story due to its popularity.

It’s kind of like the Transformers movies (though not nearly as horrible) and looking with objective eyes it’s clear that TG prolonged the narrative. Hence why we now have a story centered around Seju.

If Seju was meant to be THE main character from the beginning, then she would have been the center of the chapter prologue.

The story seems to be originally centered around Sungji and Sumin but in trying to redeem Seju’s character (In wanting her to not be the typical angry/b*tchy ex), they over developed her story to make her more sympathetic and turned her into one of the mains.

Either way, every main character in the story is humanized.

Sungji is not without her flaws. She’s 24 yet behaves like she’s a teen sometimes. Which I can understand to a certain extent since it’s her first experience with being in love. But she makes rash decisions like pretending to be sick to get off work so she can follow Sumin to her parents grave. It’s sweet but irresponsible. I don’t think she was off of her probation period yet. She’s lucky she’s gorgeous and likeable. Anyway, she’s immature at times, naive, inexperienced.

Still, the character stories parallel enough at times where one can see how things might have changed if people just did things a little differently.

Let me try to explain my point in a better way.

It seems to me there are 2 stories being told simultaneously: Seju's story (with and without Sumin) and SungjixSumin story. The latter has been underwhelming as they don't put enough effort in developing Sungji into someone with her own personality, and who has meaningful interactions with Sumin. Their entire relationship exists in relation to Seju at least up to this point. If you take a look at chapter 108 literally the entire interaction is a rehash of SejuxSumin scenes from chapter 104 and 106. Because of that, rather than giving out the impression of Sumin moving forward with her new love who is now making her happy, it is pretty much the epitome of not letting go.

So I do think TG extended the story due to the popularity, but as they themselves said, it's also because they started liking Seju too much as a character and developed an entire new story along the way. But they had promised something to the readers which is that this is SungjixSumin's story, have been trying to deliver it and in my opinion keep being underwhelming with that part. So maybe they should just focus on the story they apparently like to tell the most, which is Seju's.

That's all I'm saying, and although yes I like Seju the most, I didn't start reading WDTFS that way; rather I was shoved Seju's story to the point they convinced me I should be paying attention to her instead.

It's a little bit like Madoka Magika: you start by thinking you are watching a magical girl show with a main character called Madoka and a supposed antagonist called Homura, but by the end the conclusion is that you watched a dark/horror show with Homura being the main character all along.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 1:34PM

Seju has been over dramatized and that’s why some will (mostly subconsciously) always fail to recognize the pain Sumin went through, the actions she took to rectify her situation with Seju, and the validity of Sungji as a romantic partner for Sumin.

There are some who hate Sumin for what she did and are glad to be rid of her. They’re glad that Seju will be in a non toxic relationship now.

But for some, Sumin and Sungji’s relationship will never feel like it’s enough because deep down, some attribute Seju’s overall happiness with her relationship to Sumin.

Meaning there are those that believe Seju’s happy ever after will always be with Sumin so whoever else Seju or Sumin are paired with will never feel like they deserve deserve/fully have their love. I mean, they were in love/involved for half their lives so that’s understandable.

It will also never feel like Sumin x Sungji compares to Seju x Sumin because, for some, there will always be that hope that Seju and Sumin will find their way back together.

That’s probably why it feels like Sungji is a weak character to Seju. Sungji hadn’t gone through as much. But I think that’s what Sumin needed. This is essentially the character parallel that I’m talking about.

Sungji is Sumin in the early stages of Sumin’s relationship with Seju but that’s beside the point.

Point is bias and having favorites prevent from seeing that certain characters and relationships have been provided with enough background/motivation/moments/etc. to solidify their arcs and romances.

Of course I am not trying to lump everyone in the same category. Nor am I trying to say how people should feel. I’m merely giving observations based on responses and reactions.

Having bias isn’t a bad thing though. It just means that the author did a great job with getting their readers to fall in love with their character.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 2:29PM

I get that all these are true, they are good writers and people will have different opinions which depend on their biases. But I am not talking about Sumin, or liking her or not. I agree with you that Sumin went through a lot and her actions are understandable. I don't like her as a fictional person, but I like her as a character in the story because she was very well developed, as much as Seju.

On the other hand, although I like Sungji as fictional person in principle (she is kind, sweet, yadda yadda) I dislike her as a character in this story because of the failure to make her stand out enough as a lead who steals Sumin's heart away due to Sungji being a special person who fits Sumin more than Seju does. Instead of making it look like that, the author's choices continuously tip the balance towards an interpretation of the story in which Sumin is so afraid of her love for Seju (and with good reasons) that she needs to find a replacement. Her replacement, as you say, is even someone who reminds Sumin of herself when she fell in love for Seju, as if she is trying to go back to the past.

I am also questioning the "meta" part of the story, what the authors choose to show or not. From what they choose to show, that's how I conclude that they are as of now not letting go of SuminxSeju, no matter the reasons.

This chapter 108 was extreme. From the bunny costume to the strawberry cake to grabbing by the waist after sex, even the part about Sumin talking of continuation of love etc. Except in every single scene, you got to be blind to not see how the original equivalent scene was more tender, with Sumin being with her full heart in it and also Seju.

If the intention is to show Sumin healing and moving on, they could choose to show her experiencing new things and emotions with Sungji, a completely different Valentine's Day. That's what I would personally prefer, because I think if this is a healing story, then you gotta show people actually healing rather than tied to the past. Or if they really insist on showing mirror scenes, at least show that in the present day Sumin is happier/more satisfied on some level. By not doing that, it's the authors who send the message that SejuxSumin are, at least at this point in the story, still the real deal. Even if the person is very biased towards Sungji, I think they'd agree.

In fact if I was invested in WDTFS because of Sungji, I'd have dropped it already due to being frustrated with the way the SungijxSumin relationship is handled. For gods sakes, so they can't even bother to give her an authentic loving moment in the story that is not linked to something that Seju has done or said?

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 3:55PM

^
Just to do something a bit unusual, matsuri-wins, let me say: I agree with everything you say. :)

(Of course, I always think the fictional person/character in a narrative work of art distinction is crucial.)

And your last point about Sungji: I kept thinking, "What happened to that interesting learning curve of the naive but intrepid beauty this story used to be about?"

Or maybe they would br better off just wrapping up WDTFS as is and starting out a new story that only has the elements they are best at depicting, without the hanging promise of a vanilla happy ending for

I've been thinking this the last few years now. Take the experience they've had creating WDTFS and improve by writing something new.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 6:05PM

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/WriteAKoreanDrama

To break up the seriousness of this thread, how many of these tropes can you find in WDTFS? I had a good laugh when i read this.

Edit: I don't watch Kdramas.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 6:45PM

^
Just to do something a bit unusual, matsuri-wins, let me say: I agree with everything you say. :)

Wow. I gotta say I am flattered xD We rarely agree, if the Citrus and Bloom Into You threads are any indication lol But it's awesome reading your always well thought-out arguments. I know I troll the threads like at least half the time but...this one is serious so am trying my best to articulate my points.

(Of course, I always think the fictional person/character in a narrative work of art distinction is crucial.)

And your last point about Sungji: I kept thinking, "What happened to that interesting learning curve of the naive but intrepid beauty this story used to be about?"

Considering Team GJ does write exceptionally well (in my opinion at least), I can only think either from the beginning or somewhere along the way they decided whatever this story is about, it is definitely not about the love story of Sungji and Sumin. At this point, it's pretty much impossible to turn it around, since we have literally 108 chapters of their relationship being defined in terms of Seju and Sumin memories, with it only becoming more and more "in your face" over time. But I don't know, maybe they change the tune later on.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 7:38PM

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/WriteAKoreanDrama

To break up the seriousness of this thread, how many of these tropes can you find in WDTFS? I had a good laugh when i read this.

Edit: I don't watch Kdramas.

This is awesome! I can see a lot of parallels lol

What I thought the story was gonna be:
-- Sungji -> Plucky Girl (main)
-- Sumin -> Jerk with a Heart of Gold (love interest)
-- Seju -> Big Bad (villain)

What the story turned out to be:
-- Sumin -> Little Miss Snarker (main)
-- Seju -> Jerk with a Heart of Gold, whole damn package including Dark and Troubled Past and Parental Abandonment (love interest)
-- Sungji -> Nice Guy (love interest)

For me

I didn't have much expectations when i first went to read WDTFS as i was apprehensive about reading something with a love triangle more than anything. So this is entirely based on my judgement after reading.

Sumin - Little Miss Snarker, Dark and Troubled Past, Ms. Fanservice
Seju - Lonely Rich Kid, Dark and Troubled Past, Parental Abandonment, Ms. Fanservice, Big Bad
Sungji - Nice guy, Ms. Fanservice
That brother guy - Big Bad

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 8:13PM

Another thing I thought about (last one for the night lol).

So the story is about "healing", presumably by forgetting your "toxic ex" and moving on with your new love. Okay. In what world do you heal from your ex and move on with your new love by:

1. Staying in the same place where you and your ex interacted for a decade (instead of moving on to a fresh new apartment, since you have the cash to buy it)

2. Quitting your job after telling your ex you are resigning precisely to cut her off, then couple months later returning to the same place to work there. Knowing she owns the company. Or, even if she doesn't anymore, it's the place where you had sex with her pretty much everywhere and your current gf caught you cheating (also: your gf accepts this!! Blows my mind).

3. You keep a picture of your ex as a treasure even after she left

Lol...come on. And it's not like Team GJ doesn't know how to show someone honestly attempting to move on either: at the end of Paradise they do show Seju packing up and leaving, and she doesn't take Sumin's note with her. It was the only letting go scene in this entire story.

Your first two points have been answered before in this thread, so i will let the new commenters argue those. But what picture are you talking about?

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 8:36PM

That one they took in the amusement park and that she mentions she would keep it forever as a treasure. In ch 1 of Paradise, someone comes to pick Seju stuff up. Sumin had been looking at the pic apparently, since there is a box open, a notebook out and the pic was glued to it. No comment made like "this is past now" closes box

Ah ok i thought it was something bigger like a photo on the mantelpiece in plain site. I'll leave you to your interpretation of that but it makes sense to me from a plot structure point.

No comment made like "this is past now" closes box

If they ended the chapter like that there would have been no following pages ;)

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 9:19PM

Ah ok i thought it was something bigger like a photo on the mantelpiece in plain site. I'll leave you to your interpretation of that but it makes sense to me from a plot structure point.

Yeah it's just a tidbit I noticed which is a weaker point than the others. But the other stuff I mentioned plus the constant tying back to the past, and Sungji's underdevelopment in comparison to the other 2, is either supreme bad writing or the feel of SejuxSumin as fated couple is not something Team GJ is ready to quit on just yet. But they could just as well make readers interested by developing Sunji more and showing genuine scenes between them that have nothing to do with the past and represent a fresh start. They don't...for reasons unknown.

No comment made like "this is past now" closes box

If they ended it like that there would have been no following pages ;)

Precisely. 108 chapters later and with a relationship now ongoing, we still don't know where the train is headed. My fear is: nowhere :D Maybe they only know how to write torturous love triangles, so we are never getting out of it.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 9:29PM

No comment made like "this is past now" closes box

If they ended it like that there would have been no following pages ;)

Precisely. 108 chapters later and with a relationship now ongoing, we still don't know where the train is headed.

Sums up reality though, we don't really know where the reality train is headed so all we can do is make the journey as comfortable as possible.

Paradise Sumin hasn’t gone through pain, hasn’t experienced betrayal, hasn’t suffered through loss. Paradise Sumin is still naïve and hopeful, completely open to love. Current Sumin had walls because of her suffering. Current Sumin has things she has to deal with that Paradise Sumin did not.

Those walls, her damages, won’t just disappear just because she loves Sungji.

Sumin experienced pain and heartache yet is still willing to take a chance at repeating the cycle with someone she doesn’t really know that well demonstrates just how much Sungji means to her.

And her talking with Sungji about her insecurities demonstrates that she’s still healing, not yet fully healed but on her way.

Also, Seju almost died yet Sumin still rebuffed her advances and continually chose Sungji. It shows that Sumin loves Sungji most. Sungji who displayed patience and understanding that Seju had failed to do... but it’s pointless to rehash earlier points made in regards to character differences of Paradise Sumin and Current Sumin and the difference between Sejumin’s and Sungjimin’s relationships.

They’ll be easily dismissible if one believes that Sumin is only using Sungji as a scapegoat.

But I can understand how one can miss details or even be confused since TG seems to be unwilling to show happily ever afters yet.

Maybe it’s because of financial motivations. (Just like why Citrus end drama was extended for like 5 chapters only to be concluded in one quick chapter. There was intent to produce a spinoff hence why we’re given half happy endings.)

And yes, the story did suffer because of the extension.

Perhaps they (TG or the editors or a combination of both) were worried that if they used new ideas in a new story instead of incorporating them in WDTFS, the new series would not be as popular or maybe they couldn’t quite figure out how to start a new story.

Just because you have a good character doesn’t mean you can necessarily create a good story out of it.

I honestly thought that the job and the apartment thing were weird too but then I remember Sumin’s scar/tattoo and I’m like it doesn’t matter where she lives/works, every time she’s naked in front of the mirror or soaping her body, she’s going to remember what happened.

Also, the betrayal happened like a month after her parents died so Seju’s betrayal is pretty much tied in there with her parents death anniversary.

I think in Sumin’s case, she kept those things because either she doesn’t want to forget the mistakes she made or, like in Sunhwa’s case, she hopes that she can still be friends with Seju one day.

I mean Seju has had a really f*cked up life and Sumin cares about her.

But yeah, I think Sumin just wants to be reminded of where she went wrong. Not like she’s punishing herself, but Sumin has to hold onto her memories in order to become a better person with Sungji.

Seju has to completely erase Sumin from her life in order to move on. She lived and breathed Sumin for 17 years. Just a trace of Sumin will make it impossible for her to properly move forward with her life.

People move on differently. Some need to forget while others need to remember the pain and find a way to push through it.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 10:24PM

Sungji who displayed patience and understanding that Seju had failed to do...

Lol ok this one statement shows me we will never agree in this lifetime >.>

Sungji seems great only because she doesn't have any personal problems to deal with and is not receiving blame and being used by Sumin for 10 years, for things that were largely out of her hands (the accident, the torture, Sumin's shitty ex-gfs). That makes it all a breeze doesn't it? Even then, whenever there was a difficulty, Sungji took off real quick to protect herself.

It's OK if Sumin is with her, it's a choice. But there is just no comparison on the depth of love here even if you consider the time they've been together. Because from the very start Seju sacrificed her well being to be with Sumin, by staying around her toxic family.

Anyway let's just agree to disagree on this one...

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 10:34PM

Lol ok this one statement shows me we will never agree in this lifetime >.>

I’m talking about the understanding Seju failed to bestow regarding Sumin’s parents death. She doesn’t belittle Sumin for being sad over her parents death even though it’s been 10 years.

Sumin is closed off with Sungji in the beginning of their relationship but Sungji doesn’t push Sumin, like some of Sumin’s past ex-girlfriends, to behave in a manner that Sungji finds acceptable.

In the hotel when she saw the fiancé ex, Sumin tells Sungji they’re leaving. Sungji doesn’t press her for the why’s or gets angry at her brashness.

Of course that’s probably due to her eagerness/inexperience but it’s instances like that which made a difference between Sungjimin and Sejumin.

And how did Sungji run off to protect herself? If you’re talking about the cheating then I’m inclined to remind that she’s hurt and angry. She walked away because she knew she was too emotional to talk and needed some time to collect herself.

But when Seju had to stay at Sumin’s, Sungji didn’t leave. That was when the drama could have escalated. She accepts that it’s necessary to save Seju’s life.

She only left Sungji because she realized Seju had no one and people were harshly judging Seju because she’s an illegitimate child of a secretary with a wealthy billionaire.

Sungji recognized that Sumin still loves Seju so there was hope for both of them to reconcile if she weren’t there.

That was her being selfless, not wanting Sungji to choose anymore as well as giving Seju someone to lean on during this trying time in her life.

Anyway let's just agree to disagree on this one...

Yes and I’m not saying Sungji is a saint or anything like that. She has flaws too but her flaws seem to be designed so she’d be more willing to understand Sumin.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 10:55PM

They’ll be easily dismissible if one believes that Sumin is only using Sungji as a scapegoat.

My argument is not that Sumin is using Sungji as scapegoat. I think she genuinely likes Sungji, is attracted to Sungji and cares for her, and doesn't want to repeat the same mistakes etc.

But from the way the story keeps shoving it to our faces, the message is that despite all that, the depth of loving emotions is not the same as experienced with Seju. Will it become the same or more? We will see, but we are 108 chapters into it and I sure ain't seen it. A good start for that to happen is to develop Sungji as a deeper character. Which I also ain't seen yet, quite the opposite lol She is getting progressively shallower from a pretty solid start, while Seju becomes deeper.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 10:55PM

But from the way the story keeps shoving it to our faces, the message is that despite all that, the depth of loving emotions is not the same as experienced with Seju. Will it become the same or more? We will see, but we are 108 chapters into it and I sure ain't seen it. A good start for that to happen is to develop Sungji as a deeper character. Which I also ain't seen yet, quite the opposite lol She is getting progressively shallower from a pretty solid start, while Seju becomes deeper.

Like I said, it feels like TG’s still holding stuff back in an attempt to prolong the narrative. I mean I thought only Seju was going to get a story but then they show new content with Sungjimin. It’s almost like they’re testing the waters, gauging interest, to see if they can prolong Sungjimin as well.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 11:00PM

Lol ok this one statement shows me we will never agree in this lifetime >.>

I’m talking about the understanding Seju failed to bestow regarding Sumin’s parents death. She doesn’t belittle Sumin for being sad over her parents death even though it’s been 10 years.

She was supportive of Sumin about the parents, she was just trying to get her out of depression by saying it was enough and she needed to react. Yes, in a rough way, but also Sumin was acting extremely defeated, and Seju was super worried. It wasn't unreasonable behaviour from Seju. I've had my gf do the same when I am acting like giving up on life because of difficulties. The proof that Sumin didn't think it was such a big deal, was because she wanted to make it up.

Sumin is closed off with Sungji in the beginning of their relationship but Sungji doesn’t push Sumin, like some of Sumin’s past ex-girlfriends, to behave in a manner that Sungji finds acceptable.

In the hotel when she saw the fiancé ex, Sumin tells Sungji they’re leaving. Sungji doesn’t press her for the why’s or gets angry at her brashness.

Of course that’s probably due to her eagerness/inexperience but it’s instances like that which made a difference between Sungjimin and Sejumin.

I suspect that's the core of our difference in interpreting these characters. You seem to think understanding someone means being a doormat, not asking questions, not ever demanding anything. I don't see it that way. For me, this kind of thing is super unhealthy. But hey maybe in Korea it's some kind of ideal.

And how did Sungji run off to protect herself? If you’re talking about the cheating then I’m inclined to remind that she’s hurt and angry. She walked away because she knew she was too emotional to talk and needed some time to collect herself.

But when Seju had to stay at Sumin’s, Sungji didn’t leave. That was when the drama could have escalated. She accepts that it’s necessary to save Seju’s life.

She only left Sungji because she realized Seju had no one and people were harshly judging Seju because she’s an illegitimate child of a secretary with a wealthy billionaire.

Sungji recognized that Sumin still loves Seju so there was hope for both of them to reconcile if she weren’t there.

That was her being selfless, not wanting Sungji to choose anymore as well as giving Seju someone to lean on during this trying time in her life.

You just interpret every one of Sungji's actions as some kind of selfless act. Every time she was hurt and angry, she took off. Seju was hurt and angry too, her whole life, but she stayed.

Anyway let's just agree to disagree on this one...

Yes and I’m not saying Sungji is a saint or anything like that. She has flaws too but her flaws seem to be designed so she’d be more willing to understand Sumin.

Precisely my point: she is not a character, she is a plot device and "understanding of Sumin no matter what" is her only visible characteristic at this point, after starting out as an interesting character.

So much Deja'vu in this thread. Life really is cyclical in nature.