I am not aware of other yuri manga that has drama + comedy like Citrus to be honest. I guess they are usually either heavy drama (NTR, Octave maybe), low-key drama (Sasameki Koto, Girlfriends) or slice of life kinda thing (Kase-san comes to mind). I haven't read a lot of yuri though so I'm probably wrong.

Saburouta is actually very smart; she dropped the ch. 36 bomb while people were watching the anime, knowing full well if this isn't going to make people buy the next chapters nothing will. I would have nothing to add to your analysis.

And talking about the anime: it's made me like the Matsuri/Tachibana sisters arc much more. Also the "world-building" aspect was pretty good, I was surprised how they even show us the part of Tokyo they live in etc and show real locations (it's Toyosu in Koto-ku for those who didn't catch it). And the dub is surprisingly better than the sub in my opinion, maybe because the sub makes what they say seem too formal while in the dub they talk like actual teenagers.

I don't get what's with all the commotion and negative comments? But, seriously, try to read Gunjo and then try to compare it to this manga. Maybe it will clear your head guys. I wonder about how old the majority of readers of this manga, for them to react this way.

None other than Maidoll did a Citrus Pinup for Toroana

https://twitter.com/maidoll/status/979243297246871558

She even included the rings!

Holy shit I have just lost my will to live

Holy shit I have just lost my will to live

Yet another casualty.

One of my favorite, earlier "collaborative re-envisionings" is the whole Ep 6 journey that starts by snatching up Mei at school (Harumin is the Greatest), the extended, gloriously dynamic and rousing bike scene--with better dialogue!, and a brief moment where it looks like Mei freaks out (read: bonus character dev), and then the satisfying rework of the whole Farewell-to-InaneFather-with-Tacky-Shoes; great choreography; streamlined and beautiful use of space. (That and a few others sorta made up for the ball-dropping rush-passes they did on the quieter, pivotal scenes that I was highly anticipating, but here's hoping for improvements in S2.) Also, good consistent use of less generic establishing shots; making those character-centric parts of the Metropolis and outskirts more memorable over time. e.g., The season finale's shot of Yuzu's, non-descript, home town intersection (also the very first shot in the premiere/series) = fast cut to Matsuri's playground scene for more bonus character dev; so quick, easy, and no need for extraneous words or audio. The CG does distract me a lot though, mostly for the animation of the ultraconformist, uniformed, robotic hordes, i.e., "How long did the artists take to churn out those tedious minute variations and setup each scenario, how versatile are the base models, and how often are the assets expected to be reused per season?" There are scenes where the model usage for long shots are pretty yuck, so, more questions about production crunching and outsourcing, too...

Another point you don't mention about the anime and that surprised me, was that the realistic world-building, despite the inconsistent storywriting (which the anime producers couldn't get around since they must be faithful to the source material), might have decisively contributed to the overall feeling I got from the anime series (but not from the manga) which is of "this is a romance story about 2 girls falling in love, happening in real life; variations of it are happening on these same places right now as you watch this". Maybe only because of that or perhaps due to other factors as well, although of course the manga is yuri, oddly enough I would not classify the anime as "yuri" because it doesn't have yuri vibes to me. I would classify it as simply a romance anime where the main couple happens to be 2 girls.

Holy shit I have just lost my will to live

Yet another casualty.

They’re dropping like flies, I tell you. If we don’t get a happy chapter soon, we may well have a pandemic on our hands.

Well what I was trying to say is that I actually like the anime better, precisely because it lacks this extremely intense scene-by-scene emotional moments that you describe, and instead presents the story as more integrated with the real world and more like a normal love story (thanks to the "world-building" efforts I suspect).

The manga, for me, focuses so much on Yuzu's emotions about Mei's crazy-making behaviour that it feels less like you are reading a story about these 2 people and more like a virtual reality simulation of "let's experience falling in love with Mei as though we are Yuzu". Which of course is probably why people went bonkers with ch. 36. In a sense they are meant to feel Yuzu's feelings. And don't get me wrong, this is actually pretty cool and it's not every story that can do that, but the anime felt refreshing since it followed a different approach. And I think the fact that it showed the story as a normal love story instead has its own phenomenal importance, because it's awesome for LGBT representation in anime and that being normalized.

In other words: I see the fact that they made such efforts in the anime into making these characters like normal relatable teens by adding a lot of context around their lives as very positive, and perhaps a legitimate sign of change. And I suspect in a few years the anime will be remembered as one of the first (definitely the first I've seen) to show 2 girls in love in such a normal way, rather than in some way fetichized. Fetishizing lesbian relationships is what a lot of yuri works do in my opinion, as the ones I've watched are all about objectifying the relationship, where what's important is not the story and how the characters feel about each other, but rather producing either saccharine or lewd-like feelings in the viewer.

last edited at Mar 30, 2018 9:27PM

One thing the anime shows that I did not know is that the Aihara academy is the the size of a mega-mall with what appears to be roughly 10,000 students—no wonder Mei is so concerned about keeping it in the family.

The manga, for me, focuses so much on Yuzu's emotions about Mei's crazy-making behaviour

Is this what you mean by the inconsistent writing? If so, I think it is something that can be managed with the minor reworks they've demonstrated so far. They have their own in-line aspects of crazy to inject, e.g., Himeko and Yuzu's frantic simultaneous praying at the Yasaka (Relationship) Shrine.

No, so actually that part of the manga is totally fine by me and the only thing that makes it so interesting, the characterization and character development. Being in Yuzu's mind/heart as an observer of Mei. But the plot itself is not good I find. The author's choice to introduce all these girls who are romantic rivals in one way or another is way too repetitive, especially if you consider other stuff could be done instead. For example, exploration of Mei's past, more focus on the Aihara family and how it operates, Yuzu's past, the fact that they are essentially from different social classes and how they adapt to that, etc etc. There are so many options and yet she chooses instead to add all these people to the story who don't have their own lives and whose sole purpose is to cause more interactions between Yuzu and Mei.

In fact, the reason why I guess Harumin is so loved is because she is the only one in the story who seems to have a life.

In fact, the reason why I guess Harumin is so loved is because she is the only one in the story who seems to have a life.

And a loving charismatic friendly tone to her, someone who genuinely seems to care about the ones dear to her, regardless of her own inner troubles. Many people who have kept up with this only did so for Yuzu and Harumin.

Surprisingly, to me, the twins appeared to be more likable on the anime than the manga.

Citrus Anime 3+/10. Only the first episode was good. Low budged advertisement for manga and nothing more.

Citrus Anime 3+/10. Only the first episode was good. Low budged advertisement for manga and nothing more.

Oh come on, that's only your opinion which I respect but definitely not what most people think. Go check the Crunchyroll ratings, 4.3/5 and super positive commentary. Lots of comments from people who never even watched yuri (some never even watched anime). It's not without faults but better than 80% of the romance crap out there, and I'm glad they made the show more accessible.

Um... durh: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=22183

As I was saying about male sensibilities... and it explains the boob focuses. Also, a return to "Blue is the Warmest Color" as an example of what could go wrong; maybe it's best that they stick to the source material as much as possible if S2 ever tries to morph into an aesthetic trainwreck.

Hrm, perhaps that's not a likely scenario since he also storyboarded for Strawberry Panic, but I've never seen or read any of that.

Blue is the Warmest Color wasn't bad, except for the excessively long sex scene which caught me off-guard, especially as I decided to watch it during a date with a girl who didn't know me very well lol Oh the epic awkwardness. To this day I don't know why that whole scene was there.

But I also love the other aspects of physicality in the scenes; so much running, slamming into furniture, spazzing out, biking... hilarious finale with the flash-mob bridge chase: Mei was literally fleeing with panic written all over her face. (Kept thinking, "Is this really happening?!") I'm guessing it might be a universal concurrence that the anime can maybe trump the manga if it's done right; implementing the best kinds of changes.

The reactions of people who haven't read the manga about Mei were to me part of the fun as well lol There were pages upon pages on Crunchyroll of people discussing the sexual harassment early on and then all the outrage at her choosing to date Sara on a whim. I feel she is kinda like the low-key, modern day version of Himemiya Anthy from Utena. Where everybody loves to hate on the character because she is so ambiguously flawed as a human being, and because of that it makes people glimpse in her behaviour uncomfortable parts of themselves.

We got a Citrus doujin!

https://twitter.com/glidesloe/status/980891885664288768

I do actually remember seeing stuff about Utena, but the Sailor Moon-like vibe warded off any inclinations for positive immersion or critique; never heard anyone in reality praising it either (pre-global-mainstream social media), so not sure how much it is a missed experience, or if it would be dated now. (Is it worth the time?)

In short: yes. It's incredible. You seem to be into art and this series is definitely art. I don't even know how to explain it beyond: ignore the initial "magical girl" vibes (they were clearly there as a hook because that's what was popular at the time) and just watch the whole thing till the end.

Also re: viewer response: Citrus is actually one of the few anime I've watched where dialogue translation is paramount for precise characterization--if used at all, so I don't know what non-native-language reviewers and most people are watching, or how they interpret the reinterpreted subs. But it helps to be able to glean a lot from the original spoken language to get a better sense of subbing biases--which can make or break characters, in this sense, i.e., Mei's the one most affected by wonky subs.

The English sub makes the dialogue more ambiguous I think (probably more Japanese...), while the English dub makes it more straightforward and the characters sound more like normal teenagers, which I liked (except Mei which turned out even more robotic). In particular Matsuri comes off less creepy and more "street", for example by calling Mei all the synonyms I know of for "slut" and asking Yuzu "so did you guys bang?" xD

FTR, managed to sample the first ep... omg, ouch, the aesthetic is dated even for '97, especially since Escaflowne and Evangelion were airing around then. This would've been a complete turn-off eons ago, but for research purposes, I can accept it as an intentional artistic style to match the high fantasy shojo theme, and acclimation should be possible long before ep 39?? since the narrative potential is certainly there. Also, despite the protector-of-battered-lover(s) aspect having already worn out its welcome in a single ep, the overall pacing seems brisk enough to clear minor hurdles; according to some folks, it gets way better just before you want to quit, with a purportedly satisfying payoff, so we'll see what happens if I can make it to the finish line.

lol just have faith, I think you will like it. It's the most "meta" anime I've ever watched. Makes Evangelion seem pretentious and dumb in comparison (not that Eva isn't pretentious...xD).

The English sub makes the dialogue more ambiguous I think (probably more Japanese...), while the English dub makes it more straightforward...

How ambiguous?

It's hard to discern precisely Mei's intentions from the sub, while from the dub they make it clearer what she wants. I suspect it's cultural. For example in the sub Mei asks "What do you think of me?" in ep. 10, while in the dub from what I remember she literally asked if Yuzu likes her in a tone that's like "girl just spit it out already". The dub must be from the U.S of course, if it was Canadian the way we would ask is "I'm sorry, but do you happen to like me by any chance?" lol

Also, this is cool: http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2018/04/01/fall-in-love-with-these-citrus-real-life-locations

In drama CD track 03, from volume 9, Matsuri inadvertently calls Harumi mama.

Cute

this manga is good to read tho. despite the things that are forbidden but is already cross.
but the impact of the story is very interesting its a lot of BLACK & WHITE not always happiness but it has heartbreaking.
yuzu character embrace/accepting lots of emotions and heartfelt for love.
the 32chapter matsuri overhead the conversation of himeko the eyebrow-chan and shiraho and after the trip himeko and shiraho very worried about mei and yuzu because they cant even help them.
shiraho said: that is to believe in
the path that they chose to walk on together. well looking forward with this one tho.

36chapter mei's letter to yuzu i think
it was the best part for yuzu its not that simple but it makes yuzu stronger.
hope the 37chapter will cause lots of exciting things will happened especially the character of matsuri, taniguchi, nene and the new yuzu develop/learn lot of things like new hairstyle(short hairstyle for yuzu)haha

last edited at Apr 6, 2018 8:52AM

OMG ch36 was sooo sad. I've hope this is not the end :(

Ohh... oops, didn't know I was preaching to the choir about production locations--also don't know how often Canadians rant or rave about those two major entertainment cities. (-_-);;; It's easier to just go with an unfiltered info dump since this is the net.

We are more focused on ranting about real estate prices in Toronto and Vancouver, believe me lol

Mei is a clear byproduct of being socialized/raised by the older WW2 culture relatives that experienced a good portion, or lived through the tail-end... the fact that she is someone so very steeped in that sort of lagged generational tradition--with extreme adherence to it all--in 2013-2018, no less, is already weird. But it seems old money is forever ensconced in the worst kinds of insular, overly rigid traditions if they aren't part of the cutting edge industries; you have to be progressive to modernize, even if it's at a snail's pace. I know a general cultural etiquette that still exists is be considerate of others to the point of being able to read minds (borderline telepathic on some level--but far easier with the country-wide type of group-think/conformity), so it helps that Westernization is allowing for more overt aspects of expression, individuality, and emotional freedom. (It's always stunning--and painfully revealing--when older JP generations drop the aloof, polite facade to rail about how unmannered/uncouth/insubordinate their previously colonized minions are still behaving (like intolerable "barbarians/heathens/savages/uncultured/assbackwards peasants"/take your pick). Yikes. (Unless that person is in a position of power to do a lot of harm, it's a good thing those impromptu vented spleens mean little these days.) I personally like the character/dialogue ambiguity for (again) the accuracy of retaining the author's vision; Mei's mostly monotone VO seems consistent, and done so to magnify the careful death grip on emo, i.e., immense inner restraint, and the pointed depictions on paper (or the richer animated nuances) drop those million one subtle cues for how one should try to read her mind. Still an enormous challenge to read from the get-go in any medium, therefore all of those shocking/confounding actions demonstrated carry the most weight in revealing what's truly going on within.

I like the ambiguity in dialogue but it always seemed unrealistic, because 16-year-olds in my mind are not supposed to talk like that. However your explanation makes a lot of sense. The impression I have in the end is that in order for Mei to be with Yuzu she will have to give up so much, for this one person who she has dated for just a few months. I think she will have to be truly convinced that she is doing it for herself independently of Yuzu, so perhaps it's actually good that Yuzu backed off. Though I hope she at some point conveys she would support Mei through it all, which I don't think she has yet.

Also no one mentioned because maybe it's too dramatic for Citrus, but in another type of story Mei might try to kill herself if the burden gets too heavy. Certainly would not be out of character.

last edited at Apr 6, 2018 9:27AM

Sure, sure, how could Yuzu have supported Mei through this "wedding drama" since she was left in the dark and learned Mei's reasons too late? Yuzu already supported Mei through everything and clearly told her many times she would shoulder her suffering, in chapter 2 per se she began to be a solid support.

I don't think we are reading the same manga, you have a very strange interpretation of Yuzu's character, and her devotion to Mei, consistently posting about her need to chase Mei to prove her love. She has been totally cut off from Mei, Mei probably made sure of that and deprived her of any chances to try to fight back her. At this pace, Yuzu doesn't need to prove everything now. She's the only person who understood that Mei had always been pressured to go along with other's wishes. Yuzu doesn't want to be another person to pressure Mei, she made sure of that in volume 9. Mei has to do her own choice, and this time, I strongly disagree with you, Yuzu has nothing to do, she's here waiting for Mei, hence the fact she's still religiously wearing the ring and studying seriously to honor the promise she made.

Sigh, as if she hasn't done enough. I hope you haven't been dumped like Yuzu, I had been in Yuzu's shoes and believe me, reading your posts about Yuzu's lack of fighting spirit really makes me angry. You have to be two to fight for a relationship, the one who let down it, even though she did it out of love too, is Mei. Not Yuzu. And when the other one deprives you of any chances to win her/him back, you don't need to have a lesson giver who tells you weren't enough supportive. You're already crushed. Seriously. Stop to intellectualize the characters here, by having a very strange way to interpret things and transform Mei's actions as an eternal testing challenge of yuzu's love. Mei doesn't test Yuzu here, because she didn't give her an opening like she did in volume 4 for example.

At this point she either acts like the mature person someone in Mei's situation needs her to be, and try to work things out together, or just quit because there is no way Mei will be with her if she doesn't show she has a backbone.

Yuzu is mature and has already proved she feels an adult love. Your way to say that Mei is serious and Yuzu doesn't have a backbone is really baffling. Uter bull***t. So the dumped one have to be more adult to support the dumper and prove she deserves the other's love more than the one who broke up (whatever are her reasons). Strange way to see relationship dynamic.

last edited at Apr 6, 2018 1:48PM

Yuzu hasn't done anything out of ordinary other than overtly pursuing Mei, usually instigated into action by Mei herself (even her confession). Like...she is a cool girl and all but I am not sure why people put her on a pedestal and behave like Mei wronged her immensely by taking off and it's all on her now to fix the mess. In my opinion it's just because Yuzu is the character we read the thoughts of. If you read the manga, Mei always pushed for the relationship to happen as much as Yuzu did, not always with easily understood words (because she has issues) but with obvious physical gestures. And the same insecurities she has shown (like not wanting to be involved because they are stepsisters/women) Yuzu has also demonstrated and still does, even more than Mei herself.

The reason I say Yuzu is immature, is because she pushes the relationship forward in immature ways, like giving rings when they've just started dating (who gives rings within not even half a year of dating, are they in elementary school or something?), while at the same time making a big deal out of holding hands/kissing/their friends knowing they are dating. They live together and share a bed, but Yuzu only tries to have sex with Mei during a trip with all their friends around, after rejecting Mei's attempts when they were alone in the bedroom. I mean wtf lol She behaves as a normal 16 year old of course, but that's precisely the problem here.

If you were in Mei's place and dating Yuzu, considering you have to potentially throw away your family life, your family's reputation and so on down the drain for her, would you trust this kid with your future despite loving her? I would at least have some doubts, and based on how soft Yuzu is, I would doubt she can carry the burden unless she matures and removes the rose-tinted glasses about the world (which is probably what the time skip is for). Not saying that Mei taking off with just leaving a letter was ok, that was a coward move. But even if she had said it in person, so what? She probably doesn't really believe Yuzu can offer an alternative solution even if Yuzu said so, because Yuzu's behaviour already says otherwise. She had a crying attack because some girls she once knew talked bad stuff about girls kissing, how would she handle an entire society of wealthy people hating on her?

last edited at Apr 6, 2018 4:02PM