since people are mentioning a possible confession from Yuu, do you think Yuu will admit her feelings (at least to herself) naturally or some big cluster fuck will be necessary in order to make that happen? personally I think the latter is more likely

A comet fragment hits earth & directly onto Touko's house. While attending senpai's funeral, Yuu admits her feelings.

Oh & since the PV is brought up, just wanna say that the voices for Touko & Yuu are pretty spot on. Hope they'll keep these voices if the anime ever happens.

do you think Yuu will admit her feelings (at least to herself) naturally

I think the newly written sex scene between the amnesiac patient and the nurse at the end of the play will be all the catalyst anybody needs to put their emotional cards on the table.

It is a sex scene, right?

do you think Yuu will admit her feelings (at least to herself) naturally

I think the newly written sex scene between the amnesiac patient and the nurse at the end of the play will be all the catalyst anybody needs to put their emotional cards on the table.

It is a sex scene, right?

if only ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

It is a sex scene, right?

"Where admiration leads." Definitely to the infirmary hospital bed ofc.

If Touko's initial reaction to [whatever falls out because of the play/Yuu's hypothetical confession] is distress and rejection, Sayaka very well could turn out to be fiercely protective of the "old" Touko. But I don't think she's an inherently toxic person, (rather the opposite, in fact), and even though I'm not particularly fond of the character, I'd be disappointed if we get a full-on Dark Sayaka emotional meltdown.

I don't think we'll get a Dark Sayaka meltdown either, or that she is inherently toxic. I'll admit I don't read her character closely and I haven't read the older chapters in a while, but how I see it is that even though she does think she has Touko's best interests at heart, the current state of affairs also fills one of her insecurities. My general impression of her has always been that she is content to stay as they are because it is what feels safest. She can love Touko without being rejected, and without fearing she'll lose her due to other reasons either.

I can definitely see the first scenario you postulated happening, with her becoming protective of the old Touko, but what I imagine would happen eventually, assuming Touko chooses to step in a new direction, is that Sayaka would be/feel left in the dust. From my foggy memories of the entire manga, I do do not recall feeling Sayaka wanted to change, her relationships or herself. I do distinctly remember an instance when she was thinking to herself that she would always be there for Touko in her weak moments or something like that, as if Touko would always remain the same. The bulk of Touko's deepest feelings are unknown to her, and so if it all comes out and Touko choose to change in such a dramatic way, it's going to throw her off. She might be mature about it and take some time to digest before moving on with her own life while staying friends with Touko, or she might be more emotionally vicious. Based on what we have seen so far, I think the former is more likely. I don't recall her ever striking out at anyone, the most snubbing she ever did being grabbing onto Touko pointedly when her ex asked her if she was "normal" again. But to an extent, I think she will be quietly devastated at least momentarily.

Either way, the impact she could have on Touko's choice would be before all of that has any chance to happen, during Touko's initial reaction to the play/Yuu's confession/whatever catalyst blows everything up. She has an investment in the current Touko, one that goes beyond merely thinking it's best for her. So for as long as she can believe this is what Touko wants or needs, her conviction could influence Touko, just as she has always propped up Touko in the past.

Thing is Sayaka has repeatedly shown and even voiced her jealousy over Yuu being close to Touko and having acted passive aggressive bordering on straight aggressive towards Yuu. When Maki ask her about Touko giving Yuu so much attention after he caught the two kissing. Her basically telling Yuu to back off that she was all Touko needs when Yuu kept from them she knew someone who could write the play to protect Touko. When she question Touko about her being close to Yuu and Touko plays it off. When Sayaka is at her home thinking about it trying convince herself nothing could happen. When they are playing volleyball. When Touko ask Sayaka for advice about turning down a girl. When Touko says Yuu's first name infront them. The whole build up to the sports festival. I think there was more but I kind of got lost in listing them.

I guess you could say Sayaka is really rather possessive of Touko but she plays it off because she hasn't fully perceived anyone ever being able get close to Touko to be a threat but Yuu is starting fall more and more into her radar.

last edited at Sep 4, 2017 5:39PM

do you think Yuu will admit her feelings (at least to herself) naturally

I think the newly written sex scene between the amnesiac patient and the nurse at the end of the play will be all the catalyst anybody needs to put their emotional cards on the table.

It is a sex scene, right?

If only on the phone - remember Yuu was promised lots of new lines to remember

No doubts Sayaka is going to be seriously pissed off about the updated script in public and will afterwards attack Yuu in private. And of course Sayaka will call Yuu a rival. Most definitely Yuu is going to deny everything including any possible feelings towards Touko. Obviously Sayaka will then kiss/confess to Touko in front of Yuu. Naturally Touko is going to get confused, especially after the play will get her brains messed up enough. Of course it's the jealousy and possessiveness of Yuu that will make her question the nature of her feelings towards Touko. Of course it's going to end happily establishing Touko x Yuu as canon.

last edited at Sep 4, 2017 6:07PM

do you think Yuu will admit her feelings (at least to herself) naturally

I think the newly written sex scene between the amnesiac patient and the nurse at the end of the play will be all the catalyst anybody needs to put their emotional cards on the table.

It is a sex scene, right?

If only on the phone - remember Yuu was promised lots of new lines to remember

No doubts Sayaka is going to be seriously pissed off about the updated script in public and will afterwards attack Yuu in private. And of course Sayaka will call Yuu a rival. Most definitely Yuu is going to deny everything including any possible feelings towards Touko. Obviously Sayaka will then kiss/confess to Touko in front of Yuu. Naturally Touko is going to get confused, especially after the play will get her brains messed up enough. Of course it's the jealousy and possessiveness of Yuu that will make her question the nature of her feelings towards Touko. Of course it's going to end happily establishing Touko x Yuu as canon.

That doesn't sound like Nakatani's writing at all but I'd totally read a fic about that.

[Sayaka things]

[More things said about Sayaka]

Thing is Sayaka has repeatedly shown and even voiced her jealousy over Yuu being close to Touko and having acted passive aggressive bordering on straight aggressive towards Yuu. When Maki ask her about Touko giving Yuu so much attention after he caught the two kissing. Her basically telling Yuu to back off that she was all Touko needs when Yuu kept from them she knew someone who could write the play to protect Touko. When she question Touko about her being close to Yuu and Touko plays it off. When Sayaka is at her home thinking about it trying convince herself nothing could happen. When they are playing volleyball. When Touko ask Sayaka for advice about turning down a girl. When Touko says Yuu's first name infront them. The whole build up to the sports festival. I think there was more but I kind of got lost in listing them.

I guess you could say Sayaka is really rather possessive of Touko but she plays it off because she hasn't fully perceived anyone ever being able get close to Touko to be a threat but Yuu is starting fall more and more into her radar.

Sayaka knows she does not own Touko. If there is anything that she always sees clearly in front of her, it is that Touko does not belong to her. This is important to keep in mind, because I think it defines everything about how she feels and how she acts.

Yuu hasn't been falling into her radar; she's already been on her radar since Touko wanted her as a campaign manager. But just knowing that, it's clear how little Sayaka can do about it and how little she is willing to risk. Any possessiveness she displays is without teeth. It is born of the knowledge that she does not mean as much to Touko and only acts to reassure herself of the nature of their relationship.

She may have acted possessive before, but what does that really show about how she might react in the future? That she'll hate Yuu and want to make her life a living hell, because she dared to love Touko and became the closest to her? She's not that petty. She got lunch with Yuu after their baton race practice, and afterwards they passed/received the baton perfectly. Very symbolic of how they had come to an understanding of each other. Also as mentioned before, I recall that she has never struck out at somebody else, as in react purely emotionally with a desire to hurt someone/prove something.

Or maybe she'll become extremely desperate and confess to Touko? What on Earth would she gain from doing so? Unless Touko suddenly decides being with Sayaka would help her become somebody else, assuming she continues not wanting to be herself, and she no longer feels that love shackles, this would amount to the greatest betrayal she could receive. It would already be bad enough with Yuu, who at least Touko is gradually becoming more and more attached to.

And I think most of all, Sayaka really does want what is best for Touko. She also knows her role and standing with Touko with crystal clarity. She will not throw everything away for the sake of her jealousy. She would not try to make Touko her own, knowing full well that Touko belongs to no one and especially not her. I just can't see her as someone who would do that.

If only on the phone - remember Yuu was promised lots of new lines to remember

No doubts Sayaka is going to be seriously pissed off about the updated script in public and will afterwards attack Yuu in private. And of course Sayaka will call Yuu a rival. Most definitely Yuu is going to deny everything including any possible feelings towards Touko. Obviously Sayaka will then kiss/confess to Touko in front of Yuu. Naturally Touko is going to get confused, especially after the play will get her brains messed up enough. Of course it's the jealousy and possessiveness of Yuu that will make her question the nature of her feelings towards Touko. Of course it's going to end happily establishing Touko x Yuu as canon.

This is too much of a cliche shoujo romance situation for this series. No offense if you want this development to happen, but personally, I hope Nakatani will steer as far away from this as possible.

@riverFlower The snips in your quotes made me chuckle. Also great posts on Sayaka. I agree that while Sayaka has an attitude sometimes, she's not the kind of petty person that will try to sabotage Yuu (like bullying her or kissing Touko just to spite her) when she finds out about Touko & Yuu's relationship.

You already briefly talked about her motivation and how while she does want what's best for Touko, there's still a bit of insecurity & selfishness mixed in the somewhere. She talked about it in ch 12 how she wanted to keep the status quo because she knows Touko can't handle romantic relationship & needs Sayaka's friendship to support her, but at the same time, keeping the status quo also helps her remain by Touko's side & be the closest person to her. Currently, these two interests are not in conflict with one another. However, the moment she finds out about Yuu & Touko's relationship, they will be. Sayaka will have to face the question of whether she wants what's best for Touko or whether she wants to remain the closest to Touko. This internal conflict will probably lead to her trying to confront both Yuu & Touko (individually) in some form to make sense of their relationship. Currently, Sayaka still believes that what Touko is doing is what's best for her. Although recent development in ch 23 does seem to show that this belief might fall apart sooner or later. The expression she made here, IMO, seems to be her slowly realizing/considering 1) how close yet so far away she is from Touko (as Touko still hasn't trusted her enough to open up completely) & 2) how Touko is not fine in her current situation at all. I think these confrontations (& maybe her own observations) will help Sayaka to come to the full realization of the extent of Touko's problem, which will lead her to let go of any ego/selfish interest she may have & join Yuu in helping Touko. Yuu & Sayaka working together (after their little catfight) is the ideal situation I personally hope for.

Also, along the way, she'll come to realize how much closer Yuu & Touko are to each other & how she has no chance & so she'll give up :^)

last edited at Sep 5, 2017 4:45AM

I want a bitchfight. Nothing too big or stupidly dramatic though.

testing if I can post

Okay now the second semester of school will start soon:

So a couple of things can happen, since the script of the play has been changed and we will see the reaction of everybody on the student counsel. I wonder what our writer Koyomi has added and what lines is Yuu playing the head nurse is going to say.

If Koyomi wants to be writer and she is also very observant of what is happening around here, mostly during the summer camp that Touko organized back a couple of chapters ago, that could show up in the new update of the play.

This as some have written a upcoming confrontation between Yuu and Sayaka that could affect everybody on the student consul , so in a nutshell:

A. Confrontation between Yuu and Sayaka
B. Issues between Yuu and Touko (remember Yuu trying to change Touko)
C. A hell of a CATFIGHT in the student room (Guys evacuate the area!!!)
D. Koyomi meets he favorite author at the night of the play.
E. Sayaka tell's touko her true feeling towards her and gets crushed
D. ALL THE ABOVE

But a clue has been given with the two figures of Yuu and Touko, that are on sale in Japan about a LETTER(?) So whats in the letter from Touko to Yuu?

More to come cannot wait to see what happens next....... could be rocky second semester and the cultural festival or the play that nobody will forget.

......The course of true love never did run smooth.........W. Shakespeare

^^ All possibilities (some more probable than others). But a random list of elements I've been keeping in mind:

1) Touko's new insight into who her sister really was (i.e., Touko thought she was becoming a version of her sister, but she actually wasn't. So what's her motivation for continuing to cling to that role beyond the play?)

2) Touko's determination that the play will be the culmination of the "become my dead sister" cycle. Something comes after that, but nobody knows what.

3) The cafe owner's evaluation of Sayaka: "You're a good girl." (I think we can basically trust that, whatever temporary conflict Sayaka may cause.)

4) Koyomi and Yuu revised the ending of the play together, but we have no evidence that Koyomi is aware of Touko and Yuu's hidden relationship. So whatever the import of that new ending is, probably no sex scene, I'm afraid.
4a) However, we did see that particular scene twice and from two different points of view, which emphasized that we still never saw anything specific about what they said or did, so just maybe Yuu did spill a bean or two.

5) Maki's secret knowledge about the TxY ship has amounted to almost nothing so far--dropped stitch, or hidden plot bomb?

I have to say that I'm pretty impressed with the way Nakatani-sensei has set up a wide range of possible outcomes and different ways to arrive at those outcomes (including the possibilities that the whole thing will end unhappily or even tragically, or the opposite) and all of those outcomes could be consistent with prior events and true to the characters.

I want a bitchfight. Nothing too big or stupidly dramatic though.

Same. I want the catfight just so I can see the calm & collected Yuu getting upset enough to slap somebody.

But a clue has been given with the two figures of Yuu and Touko, that are on sale in Japan about a LETTER(?) So whats in the letter from Touko to Yuu?

Did they say they'd give a clue to the plot in the letter? I think it's unlikely, but I do rlly want to read the content in it though. Since it's Touko, I'm imagining it'll be something corny but sweet & maybe a bit horny as well. Hopefully, someone will share it once it's out in October. Preordered the figures on AmiAmi, but the special set with the letter is Japan-exclusive, so can't get my hand on that.

probably no sex scene, I'm afraid.

Top 10 manga betrayal

Top 10 manga betrayal

Oh, I still have my hopes up for a sex (ahem) emotionally touching physical intimacy scene.

Just not as the climax of the high school play. :-)

Top 10 manga betrayal

When Yuu saw Touko relying on Sayaka instead of her

last edited at Sep 6, 2017 7:48AM

When Yuu saw Touko relying on Sayaka instead of her

That incident at the fireworks did make Yuu feel uneasy. However, Touko's initial impulse was to talk to Yuu, but she didn't want to impose emotionally on her--"to use up all her sweetness." (That's not what would happen, of course, but Touko isn't aware of that yet.) And Sayaka brought up the subject to Touko, not the other way around.

When Yuu saw Touko relying on Sayaka instead of her

That incident at the fireworks did make Yuu feel uneasy. However, Touko's initial impulse was to talk to Yuu, but she didn't want to impose emotionally on her--"to use up all her sweetness." (That's not what would happen, of course, but Touko isn't aware of that yet.) And Sayaka brought up the subject to Touko, not the other way around.

But Yuu knew nothing about that. All she saw was Sayaka being the one by Touko's side. Then the same thing happened next chapter with the bottles of water. At least all of that lead to Yuu holding Touko in her bed.

At least all of that lead to Yuu holding Touko in her bed.

I'd call Chap. 22, pgs. 26-27 some pretty advanced-level "holding." :-)

At least all of that lead to Yuu holding Touko in her bed.

I'd call Chap. 22, pgs. 26-27 some pretty advanced-level "holding." :-)

Just call it the great bed scene for now until the next great bed scene comes along.

Where in a lot of yuri manga there can be an extended process of two people opening up to one another emotionally with a (sometimes extremely limited) skinship payoff at the end, in this one I'm really looking forward to the protags being honest with themselves and with each other.

Should that take place in the context of, or be followed by, a Great Bed Scene (GBS), all the better.

What if they actually do it before resolving their issues? I can totally see Touko going for that given that she's pretty horny, and Yuu wanted to touch Touko in ch. 20, and in general volume 5 has shown Yuu acting on her desires more and more so far.
Not sure if I'd like that though. After they become a couple would be more romantic

last edited at Sep 6, 2017 12:45PM

It's notable that Yuu has either initiated or consciously created the conditions for some (although not all) of the significant skinship moments in the manga so far. The "ambush first kiss" and the post-sports-festival shed scene are the main exceptions, but that second one makes me think that "going all the way" (now I feel like I'm 12) is another line that Yuu (and probably also Touko) would be unwilling to cross until the relationship reset we've all been predicting takes place.

But again if the relationship reset takes place in the context of a GBS, or vice versa, all the better.

What if they actually do it before resolving their issues? I can totally see Touko going for that given that she's pretty horny, and Yuu wanted to touch Touko in ch. 20, and in general volume 5 has shown Yuu acting on her desires more and more so far.
Not sure if I'd like that though. After they become a couple would be more romantic

I prefer them doing it after they become a couple myself. More romantic as you say. & I think the possibility of them doing it before is low since 1) Yuu still doesn't fully understand her sexual desire for Touko yet (but she is beginning to have thoughts as seen in vol 4) & currently, she's more focused on helping Touko than jumping on her & 2) Touko is becoming less & less as impulsive about her horniness & more considerate of Yuu, which is a great sign. I want these developments to come to a full bloom at the GBS™ when they become an official couple & have mutual consent. That is, if they do actually end up together.

last edited at Sep 6, 2017 1:04PM

It's notable that Yuu has either initiated or consciously created the conditions for some (although not all) of the significant skinship moments in the manga so far. The "ambush first kiss" and the post-sports-festival shed scene are the main exceptions, but that second one makes me think that "going all the way" (now I feel like I'm 12) is another line that Yuu (and probably also Touko) would be unwilling to cross until the relationship reset we've all been predicting takes place.

But again if the relationship reset takes place in the context of a GBS, or vice versa, all the better.

Huh, really? They have kissed 5 times I think, but the only ones that were reciprocated were in chapter 16 (even if Yuu was just going along at first, that french kiss sure made her gay) and in chapter 22. I know that Yuu agreed in chapter 6 but she didn't feel attraction and just did it out of curiosity. Or did she feel desire? That comment about Touko's eyelashes and the way she was squeezing Touko somehow parallel the scene in chapter 16.
Anyway, I guess people think best kiss was in chapter 16 but for me it's chapter 22 :^)