I've said it before: NanoFate is the cuddliest of yuris.

SO CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTE. They're so in love with each other I love it

I like how this artists does the pairing: They are super shy, but it does not stop them from embracing their affection for each other.

Don't see that a lot.

I love them.

Ah Nanoha and Fate. Is there any other ship that ever was shipped in existence that is more universally accepted but not technically canon? I mean the way they are portrayed in official media and art and still not outright confirmed to be together is rather ridiculous. At this point word-of-god could come down proclaiming Nanoha marrying Yuuno in the end or something and it would be summarily dismissed by most of the fandom.

All that aside, this was a cute one :3

Ah Nanoha and Fate. Is there any other ship that ever was shipped in existence that is more universally accepted but not technically canon?

NanoFate has been canon for a long time, people in the west call them a subtext couple since it's shown and implied through events rather than stating "and by the way they have been together since 9", but I wouldn't be surprised if they were the biggest canon yuri couple during the later part of last decade, at least their presence seems to indicate that way. Even their marriage was made canon after getting hinted for a long time, due to Japan's adoption laws and the way they sneakily upgraded Fate's status after StrikerS to be Vivio's guardian alongside Nanoha, that was a reason for celebration back then.

last edited at Nov 14, 2016 8:20AM

NanoFate has been canon for a long time, people in the west call them a subtext couple since it's shown and implied through events rather than stating "and by the way they have been together since 9", but I wouldn't be surprised if they were the biggest canon yuri couple during the later part of last decade, at least their presence seems to indicate that way. Even their marriage was made canon after getting hinted for a long time, due to Japan's adoption laws and the way they sneakily upgraded Fate's status after StrikerS to be Vivio's guardian alongside Nanoha, that was a reason for celebration back then.

But that is the whole point isn't it? You use terms like "implied", "seems to indicate" and "sneakily", all of which make me feel that there is canon and then there is canon. No matter what kind of tacit acceptance the creators give "off camera", the fact is they never refer to Nanoha and Fate as a couple in something like Vivid, let alone have them kiss or simply say "I love you". Implications and teasing cover art only go so far, and it is a bit sad that fandom has to make due with celebrating any tiny morsel they can get.

It is obvious to anyone paying attention that Nanoha and Fate are a couple, with Vivio they are a family, but I can not help but feel that their relationship is purposefully being kept just vague enough. How much of that is due to gender politics in Japan and how much a simple merchandising issue though, who can say.

last edited at Nov 14, 2016 8:28AM

all of which make me feel that there is canon and then there is canon

Subtext does not mean "not canon" or canon as you called it. The word subtext means the story element is implicit and spelled out through events in the story rather than directly stated. Subtext yuri means there is actual yuri. For example, in most cases breathing is subtext based information about a character.

the fact is they never refer to Nanoha and Fate as a couple in something like Vivid

They refer to them as the Takamachi family, which in the social context should be 2 degrees above being a couple. Their marriage or the specific date they started their relationship is never stated directly, that's why most aspects of their relationship are subtext, and will likely never be addressed directly considering the history Nanoha has avoiding romance on-screen for the most part.

and it is a bit sad that fandom has to make due with celebrating any tiny morsel they can get.

I wouldn't call starting a family, moving together, or getting married tiny morsels, these developments are not very common in the genre, but the thing is that in Nanoha's case all these developments act as not much more than minor plot elements to stablish the basis for Vivio's current home life, which is not touched much since Vivio is most of the time running around and training or fighting, while her moms and secondary characters with not much presence anymore.

Hmm I guess we are not disagreeing so much on what we have actually been provided by the creators, but more so on level of directness we would prefer. And that is fine. I still maintain that while the characters and their relationship can be read as you describe, and in fact I prefer to do so, they could just as easily be described as "really good friends" and it would not change much. So in that way I continue to believe that a certain level of vagueness on the topic is very much intended, beyond the fact that they are not the main characters in more recent media anymore.

Also I will give you the literal definition of the word subtext, but people definitely use that word in a different sense and quite often too. So my apologies but when you say things like "subtext couple" my mind easily goes to "hopeful fans with their yuri goggles" first, even if that was not the intent. For example, I could see Love Live fans use that for Maki and Nico (just to pick an obvious example), but that is hardly as done a deal as NanoFate. And not just because they can not be married yet because high school, heh.

canon or not, i don't as long as they're cuddling each other <3

canon or not, i don't as long as they're cuddling each other <3

Ahaha, I think we can all get behind that!

but more so on level of directness we would prefer

If you ask me, I believe most yuri fans and very likely most Nanoha fans would prefer a series about NanoFate cuddling all day than whatever we're getting in the new Vivid Strike anime, but we know that is not the niche of seinen, a Sakura Trick 2.0 would be hard to sell too.

they could just as easily be described as "really good friends" and it would not change much

For that I believe you will have to at least change their permanent living arrangements and dedicate a few pages to them getting a divorce and negotiating the custody of their daughter.

I continue to believe that a certain level of vagueness on the topic is very much intended

That has been the case since the first anime, Nanoha has never shown explicit romance on screen for any of the canon couples, even the straight ones, and this is very common for most anime outside of the romance genre when you think about it. Nanoha and Fate are by far the couple with the most on-screen romance in the franchise even if it's still not overly explicit, and this is all in a big part only because they're the couple with the most combined screen time through all series, not because Masaki Tsuzuki wants to move to the romance genre.

For example, I could see Love Live fans use that for Maki and Nico (just to pick an obvious example)

I'm not so familiar with Love Live, but I guess the difference is that Maki and Nico are not a canon couple, there are feelings hinted and at most you can say feelings of romantic nature from one or the other are written as subtext (though I probably wouldn't agree with this last statement, but that's just my opinion), but there isn't a relationship written as subtext or text.

last edited at Nov 14, 2016 10:26AM

but more so on level of directness we would prefer

If you ask me, I believe most yuri fans and very likely most Nanoha fans would prefer a series about NanoFate cuddling all day than whatever we're getting in the new Vivid Strike anime, but we know that is not the niche of seinen, a Sakura Trick 2.0 would be hard to sell too.

You are probably right. I would simply prefer something good, but it does not look like we are getting that with Vivid Strike. For the record I do not think Vivid is that great either.

they could just as easily be described as "really good friends" and it would not change much

For that I believe you will have to at least change their permanent living arrangements and dedicate a few pages to them getting a divorce and negotiating the custody of their daughter.

Fate seems to mostly be away for work (and friends can live together), they did not dedicate any pages to them getting married either, and they were both a mama to Vivio in Strikers regardless of any official custody status. Look, I am just playing devil's advocate here and looking at this from a perspective of someone who has always looked at Nanoha and Fate as friends, and continues to do so. I think it is a plausible scenario.

I continue to believe that a certain level of vagueness on the topic is very much intended

That has been the case since the first anime, Nanoha has never shown explicit romance on screen for any of the canon couples, even the straight ones, and this is very common for most anime outside of the romance genre when you think about it. Nanoha and Fate are by far the couple with the most on-screen romance in the franchise even if it's still not overly explicit, and this is all in a big part only because they're the couple with the most combined screen time through all series, not because Masaki Tsuzuki wants to move to the romance genre.

Okay we are going in circles with this, but I am not talking vagueness as imposed by genre. Yes you are absolutely right, Nanoha is not a romance, and as you say the relationship will most likely never be addressed directly. But do you really, honestly believe that is entirely because of the genre, and not because the creators do not want to commit to it 100% (again, for various possible reasons)?

It is not like I am expecting sloppy makeouts in every scene. Here's a thought, why not make Nanoha and Fate wear rings? It would be subtle yet effective, not putting romance on the forefront yet still making things crystal clear. It would not change characters dynamics, nor would it distract from things the story actually tries to focus on. But they will not, and it is not because Nanoha is not a romance story.

For example, I could see Love Live fans use that for Maki and Nico (just to pick an obvious example)

I'm not so familiar with Love Live, but I guess the difference is that Maki and Nico are not a canon couple, there are feelings hinted and at most you can say feelings of romantic nature from one or the other are written as subtext (though I probably wouldn't agree with this last statement, but that's just my opinion), but there isn't a relationship written as subtext or text.

Yes that about sums it up. My point was only that people use the word subtext somewhat haphazardly.

To Dynasty staff, it might be a bit late but I apologize if this sort of offtopic (but not really..?) is frowned upon here, not like we are discussing the actual work. I rather got more into this conversation than I expected. The somewhat nebulous state of NanoFate, from my perspective anyway, has always been more of an amusing quirk than anything, and so I hope this still looks like all in good fun and not an argument!

Look, I am just playing devil's advocate here and looking at this from a perspective of someone who has always looked at Nanoha and Fate as friends, and continues to do so. I think it is a plausible scenario.

It's only plausible in a realistic social context if people chose to ignore specific facts, the most obvious being their status as a family, their marriage, and the fact that they're two lesbians sharing a bed by choice for at least 7 years (they have been only sexually interested in other women for 16 years, I'd say that's enough to say they're canon lesbians, but if someone says they may be bi I suppose there is no way to refute that claim, or to support it for that matter).

But do you really, honestly believe that is entirely because of the genre, and not because the creators do not want to commit to it 100%

Seven Arcs and the staff were completely committed even before their relationship was official, the live events referred to them as a couple even during StrikerS, and we know their relationship wasn't canon there even if it was heavily implied with almost no room to doubt.

The somewhat nebulous state of NanoFate, from my perspective anyway

NanoFate before StrikerS is kind of vague and open to interpretation, that's one of the reasons why we got so many doujins about that period of their lives and how they became a couple, but during and after Vivid their relationship is cemented in stone.

last edited at Nov 14, 2016 11:25AM

Wow that spit action was really well drawn (//∇//)\ More NanoFate!

last edited at Nov 14, 2016 11:26AM

page 13 - Hayate, queen of breasts!

Ah Nanoha and Fate. Is there any other ship that ever was shipped in existence that is more universally accepted but not technically canon? I mean the way they are portrayed in official media and art and still not outright confirmed to be together is rather ridiculous. At this point word-of-god could come down proclaiming Nanoha marrying Yuuno in the end or something and it would be summarily dismissed by most of the fandom.

All that aside, this was a cute one :3

Worldwide riots would happen if Nanoha got married to anybody else than Fate.

last edited at Nov 14, 2016 9:41PM

Ah Nanoha and Fate. Is there any other ship that ever was shipped in existence that is more universally accepted but not technically canon? I mean the way they are portrayed in official media and art and still not outright confirmed to be together is rather ridiculous. At this point word-of-god could come down proclaiming Nanoha marrying Yuuno in the end or something and it would be summarily dismissed by most of the fandom.

All that aside, this was a cute one :3

Worldwide riots would happen if Nanoha got married to anybody else than Fate.

I'm in full support of NanoFate, but I have a feeling that even if Nanoha married Fate for real the fanbase would break in half anyway. Just playing devil's advocate.

I'm in full support of NanoFate, but I have a feeling that even if Nanoha married Fate for real the fanbase would break in half anyway. Just playing devil's advocate.

It didn't take place on-screen, but Nanoha and Fate marriage is canon and happened between StrikerS and Vivid, it was hinted many times in live events and Megami, and then got officially confirmed when Fate got upgraded to be Vivio's guardian instead of her godmother, fact that has been reiterated over the years and has been served with a healthy amount of official NanoFate wedding artworks. Also they wouldn't have done this if the fanbase would break in half, pretty much everyone and their mother liked NanoFate at least a little since the first season, it was arguably one of the biggest yuri couples of the last years, precisely because they went so far.

I'm in full support of NanoFate, but I have a feeling that even if Nanoha married Fate for real the fanbase would break in half anyway. Just playing devil's advocate.

It didn't take place on-screen, but Nanoha and Fate marriage is canon and happened between StrikerS and Vivid, it was hinted many times in live events and Megami, and then got officially confirmed when Fate got upgraded to be Vivio's guardian instead of her godmother, fact that has been reiterated over the years and has been served with a healthy amount of official NanoFate wedding artworks. Also they wouldn't have done this if the fanbase would break in half, pretty much everyone and their mother liked NanoFate at least a little since the first season, it was arguably one of the biggest yuri couples of the last years, precisely because they went so far.

I can add the interview between Mizuki and Tamura <3 they did talk about the couple as mama and papa to vivio and when Fate travel leaving to Nanoha waiting for her