Actually, the majority of people who argue against anti-trans stuff are not necessarily trans themselves, though some of them naturally are. What they are, however, is liberal, and liberals in general (not all of them) preach about tolerance in addition to being supremely intolerant of those who disagree with them.

What they are, however, is liberal, and liberals in general (not all of them) preach about tolerance in addition to being supremely intolerant of those who disagree with them.

I heard your specification, but my statement referred to both online and IRL people I've interacted with. Typically, the people who argue against anti-trans are almost all liberals, whether they're trans themselves or not. Note that due to aligning views, transgenders typically are liberal themselves, which adds to both our points.

Statistics, defintions, measurement criteria to prove any of your points, guys? Otherwise this sounds like trolling, and anyways goes kinda off topic from the manga discussion.

last edited at Feb 22, 2016 5:39AM

Statistics, defintions, measurement criteria to prove any of your points, guys? Otherwise this sounds like trolling, and anyways goes kinda off topic from the manga discussion.

Wow shit's going down
Although it seems that this is pretty relevant to the manga, it's part of the main theme after all ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Statistics, defintions, measurement criteria to prove any of your points, guys? Otherwise this sounds like trolling, and anyways goes kinda off topic from the manga discussion.

Wow shit's going down
Although it seems that this is pretty relevant to the manga, it's part of the main theme after all ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I don't see it going down. The guys started discussing liberals and tolerance from their personal experiences, without actually trying to identify who is a liberal by definition and how one judges if the person is liberal or not, etc. This is too subjective and does typically lead too "my opinion is correct because that's my experience". Sorry, I don't see how being a liberal/centrist/whoever has anything to do with relating to the MC and her story. It's a sweet educative manga, which helps confused enough transgender people find themselves. I'd rather discuss the chapter topics here, like, your own experience with SRS, coming out to parents, understanding your sexuality, etc. And I'd most definitely perfer to keep the general LGBT flame discussion outside. That's just my opinion though.

Statistics, defintions, measurement criteria to prove any of your points, guys? Otherwise this sounds like trolling, and anyways goes kinda off topic from the manga discussion.

Wow shit's going down
Although it seems that this is pretty relevant to the manga, it's part of the main theme after all ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I kinda wish the discussion of any story involving trans people didn't come with a mandatory "but transgenderism isn't real" sub-discussion. Like, yes it's relevant but it's also exhausting having to defend and justify my existence to some bigot on a soapbox.

I still have trouble when trying to discuss gender/sex/biology. Feel like I have to tiptoe around the subject. I want to have a regular meeting where people can vent about anything, so I can actually learn and, more importantly, understand. Right now I feel like if I say anything, as the person I am and the person I'm viewed as, it's not going to go well, despite my intent.

Ugh. I wrote a fucking novel on this, but I doubt it's appropriate to post. I just wanna get a drink with people who are different than me so I can learn something new.

Manga's great, btw. Real cute. Good on the husband, too.

Wow a wall of text •q•

Anyone want ice cream? Your tongues must burn from this heated discussion?

OR IS IT ME THAT'S SO HOT? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

lmao i mean fingers but here are childrens so it's inaproppriate <-- written wrong on purpose ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I kinda wish the discussion of any story involving trans people didn't come with a mandatory "but transgenderism isn't real" sub-discussion. Like, yes it's relevant but it's also exhausting having to defend and justify my existence to some bigot on a soapbox.

This is the truest fucking thing in this whole discussion, aside from "the MC is cute as hell" and "her mom totally rocks".

Let's not get into that here, people. Waving "biologiical sex" and similar around accomplishes nothing but to piss trans people off and reveal your biases. Save yourself the trouble. Also, before you start tossing words like "tolerance" around, read this first.

They were both wrong, anyway. While GID/GD is a psychiatric diagnosis it isn't actually a psychological issue. Neurobiology is the field you're looking for. So I'd suggest to look it up and learn something instead of arguing.

last edited at Feb 22, 2016 9:11AM

Love the guy who came along baiting and then asking the thread not to dissolve into a flame war.

I keep going in a circle on this...

ewwwww, het

daaaaw, cute

jesus the mom's eyes are terrifying

ewwwwwww, het

daaaaawwwww, cute

I still have trouble when trying to discuss gender/sex/biology. Feel like I have to tiptoe around the subject. I want to have a regular meeting where people can vent about anything, so I can actually learn and, more importantly, understand. Right now I feel like if I say anything, as the person I am and the person I'm viewed as, it's not going to go well, despite my intent.

I suspect gender, sex and biology make fools and liars of us all at some point, wherever we fall on the continuum. You may find more sympathy than you'd expect. I know life can be harsh and it's easy to presume censure but if you do so, you're more likely to find it. Assume you'll come out from any exchange feeling better, and chances are, you'll make others feel better as well.

Reading this manga made my eyes go a bit warm. After all these years, I don't really know what I am, so I'm both in awe and envious of those with the courage and self-knowledge to walk that road. I sometimes wish I were made of clay so I could alter things at will to get answers.

I still have trouble when trying to discuss gender/sex/biology. Feel like I have to tiptoe around the subject. I want to have a regular meeting where people can vent about anything, so I can actually learn and, more importantly, understand. Right now I feel like if I say anything, as the person I am and the person I'm viewed as, it's not going to go well, despite my intent.

I suspect gender, sex and biology make fools and liars of us all at some point, wherever we fall on the continuum. You may find more sympathy than you'd expect. I know life can be harsh and it's easy to presume censure but if you do so, you're more likely to find it. Assume you'll come out from any exchange feeling better, and chances are, you'll make others feel better as well.

Reading this manga made my eyes go a bit warm. After all these years, I don't really know what I am, so I'm both in awe and envious of those with the courage and self-knowledge to walk that road. I sometimes wish I were made of clay so I could alter things at will to get answers.

You certainly have a more positive view than I do of people. I admire that.

The funny thing is that almost all the people who replied to me basically proved at least one of my points. It happened with the first guy, it happened with the trans who got all bothered despite how I said nothing to or against them specifically, and then the people that got into it later and mentioned me were basically trying to discredit me for a reason that looked like they didn't want to hear it.

And for the record: yes I do have a neutral position. Not because I'm trying to look superior, though. I have a neutral position because I dislike the way both sides operate. The people who deny transgender typically do so for reasons that are scarcely valid, and the people who argue against anti-trans are so insulting that the only reason they get away with it is because nobody feels like they have the right to tell them off for being assholes.

Well, news flash. You can be an asshole whether you're gay, straight, bi, ace, transgender, or anything else. I'm just one of the only people willing to call anyone who is out on it. I don't care whether you say you've been wronged by the people you're insulting. That's not an excuse to stoop to or below their level, frankly.

EDIT: And for the one guy who said my stuff was off topic, I haven't read this manga. I've only looked at the comments. I didn't read it because regardless of gender, I don't like to read about people who have dicks, to be blunt. I just wanted to see how many people were getting into it over the same old topic on the discussion thread. So I don't really care whether I'm off topic or not since I never intended to be wholly so in the first place.

last edited at Feb 22, 2016 4:41PM

The funny thing is that almost all the people who replied to me basically proved my points. It happened with the first guy, it happened with the trans who got all bothered despite how I said nothing to or against them specifically, and then the people that got into it later and mentioned me were basically trying to discredit me for a reason that looked like they didn't want to hear it.

And for the record: yes I do have a neutral position. Not because I'm trying to look superior, though. I have a neutral position because I dislike the way both sides operate. The people who deny transgender typically do so for reasons that are scarcely valid, and the people who argue against anti-trans are so insulting that the only reason they get away with it is because nobody feels like they have the right to tell them off for being assholes.

Well, news flash. You can be an asshole whether you're gay, straight, bi, ace, transgender, or anything else. I'm just one of the only people willing to call anyone who is out on it. I don't care whether you say you've been wronged by the people you're insulting. That's not an excuse to stoop to or below their level, frankly.

So you're neutral because you don't actually care about the facts of the matter. You just want to grandstand about how LGBT people are just as bad as the people trying to strip them of basic human rights because sometimes they get angry about being the subject of constant belittlement and harassment and don't have the patience to deal with your snide nonsense in a patient or polite manner. The fact of the matter is you're wrong. The existence of transgenderism is medical fact and you're being intellectually dishonest in pretending the politeness or lack thereof of the people stating that fact is at all relevant to whether or not they are right.

EDIT: And for the one guy who said my stuff was off topic, I haven't read this manga. I've only looked at the comments. I didn't read it because regardless of gender, I don't like to read about people who have dicks, to be blunt. I just wanted to see how many people were getting into it over the same old topic on the discussion thread. So I don't really care whether I'm off topic or not since I never intended to be wholly so in the first place.

In other words, you just wanted to piss people off and shit on the thread. What a nice person.

So you're neutral because you don't actually care about the facts of the matter. You just want to grandstand about how LGBT people are just as bad as the people trying to strip them of basic human rights because sometimes they get angry about being the subject of constant belittlement and harassment and don't have the patience to deal with your snide nonsense in a patient or polite manner. The fact of the matter is you're wrong. The existence of transgenderism is medical fact and you're being intellectually dishonest in pretending the politeness or lack thereof of the people stating that fact is at all relevant to whether or not they are right.

I wasn't talking about whether it was right or not, but way to take my words out of context. I was talking about how humans should treat other humans well regardless of whether they disagree with one another. Regardless of who's right or who's wrong.

...I haven't read this manga.

So....you're just here to shoot off your mouth about trans people and complain that they're not being sufficiently nice to you?

The "I'm just one of the only people willing to call anyone who is out on it" bit did make me laugh though. Thanks for that.

EDIT: And for the one guy who said my stuff was off topic, I haven't read this manga. I've only looked at the comments. I didn't read it because regardless of gender, I don't like to read about people who have dicks, to be blunt. I just wanted to see how many people were getting into it over the same old topic on the discussion thread. So I don't really care whether I'm off topic or not since I never intended to be wholly so in the first place.

In other words, you just wanted to piss people off and shit on the thread. What a nice person.

Ding ding ding! We have a loser. I wanted to remind people that not having the same view as another is not an excuse to be an asshole to them.

XenonVoid posted:

EDIT: And for the one guy who said my stuff was off topic, I haven't read this manga. I've only looked at the comments. I didn't read it because regardless of gender, I don't like to read about people who have dicks, to be blunt. I just wanted to see how many people were getting into it over the same old topic on the discussion thread. So I don't really care whether I'm off topic or not since I never intended to be wholly so in the first place.

In other words, you just wanted to piss people off and shit on the thread. What a nice person.

Ding ding ding! We have a loser. I wanted to remind people that not having the same view as another is not an excuse to be an asshole to them.

And yet you are doing exactly the same thing.

So....you're just here to shoot off your mouth about trans people and complain that they're not being sufficiently nice to you?

The "I'm just one of the only people willing to call anyone who is out on it" bit did make me laugh though. Thanks for that.

Why is it that everyone is replying within the same few minutes?

Well that they're not being nice to anyone who disagrees with them. As I said before, I am neutral because I've never known a transgender personally and I dislike the way both sides operate. Which also means that they haven't had a chance to mistreat me yet either.

And yet you are doing exactly the same thing.

How so? I haven't insulted anyone except for a second in the first post when I mentioned education. I've specifically refrained from attacking any people here.

EDIT: though I will admit to showing a dislike of liberals, but that goes for conservatives as well.

last edited at Feb 22, 2016 4:59PM

XenonVoid posted:

So....you're just here to shoot off your mouth about trans people and complain that they're not being sufficiently nice to you?

The "I'm just one of the only people willing to call anyone who is out on it" bit did make me laugh though. Thanks for that.

Why is it that everyone is replying within the same few minutes?

Well that they're not being nice to anyone who disagrees with them. As I said before, I am neutral because I've never known a transgender personally and I dislike the way both sides operate. Which also means that they haven't had a chance to mistreat me yet either.

You never met one to know how they operate yet you dislike how they operate. Brilliant.

*sighs* Let's just ignore the troll and hope the thread gets sanitized soon.

You never met one to know how they operate yet you dislike how they operate. Brilliant.

I know how they operate through other sources, such as this great internet we're on.

*sighs* Let's just ignore the troll and hope the thread gets sanitized soon.

I haven't even been trolling, but thanks for misinterpreting my entire message there.

Nez Note

XenonVoid is now topic banned from this discussion. Any attempt for them to continue posting in this thread will result in a 1-hour suspension.

This message brought to you by life's too short to waste on this.