There we go, that's the point. She doesn't find fun in the act of murdering itself, she's there for the thrill of the confrontation.

You're crazy? She killed 715 innocent people, there was no confrontation except for the few who tried to fight and even so they're just normal humans, the only ones who put a real fight are the ones who gave her scars, she kills because it's her nature and it's fun, they even said that.

only reason she kill bad guys is to stay free because that's her deal.

That's her goal, and as a result she stops even crazier people from doing more evil. Antihero.

Just because she have a goal that doesn't make her an antihero, she need to want to do good to be an antihero.

And you're completely ignoring my point. She didn't do it to kill her. She didn't do it to taunt nor to torture her. She didn't do it because she could. I'd had been actually ok if any of those were the case, because it would had been arguable due to her character, but it wasn't. It was a really forced accident, done only to shock people, and that's distasteful. You may say, "well, accidents happen and it was just a matter of time before..." yes, but not fucking raping a girl with an umbrella. That's just retarded.

Again it was not to shock anyone, you really think after all the killing people saw and expect they're going to care about an accident? She never tried to rape the girl, it was an accident, nothing more than that, you're giving too much credit for a small scene.

A psycho killer getting a girlfriend, an apprentice and friends sounds like character development to me.

A lot of psycho killers had familiers and apprentices, not to mention Kuroko is a horny lesbian, you really think Chiyo was her first girlfriend? She basically got a loli that not only will be her apprentice but one day will be another lover, that's not character development, that's being pragmatic.

All you're doing is trying to force your view that Kuroko is an antihero and that rape is too much for her, while it's actually completelly in-character for her, because she's evil, she's a villain protagonist forced to work for the good guys, that doesn't make her an antihero.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 3:37PM

1. any emotions she seems to show whil fighting/killing/torturing seem to be faked and/or programmed into her via brainwashing/mental conditioning.

But that is what other characters are assuming, cause we can see that she at least have fun doing it, but she doesn't kill because it's fun, she just does it, it's just her nature, she doesn't need a reason, she's almost a force of nature.

2.kuu-chans psychopathy beginning at least 10 years before the current story( assumedly putting here in school matching up with earlier flashbacks) that some crazy woman has been behind both creating all these villains.

I don't see that way, for me it just says that woman cared only about Kuroko, as far as we know Kuroko was always a psychopath and that woman knew her, maybe she's even the one who raised her and is responssible for Kuroko not being caught sooner.

@Thiaguinho-sama

As for those saying they didn't expect that because Kuroko is an anti-hero, no, she's not even close to be an anti-hero, she's basically like Alucard, a villain forced to work for the good guys, she's just evil, only reason she's called "hero" is because she's the main character, obviously not the most reliable source but even TV Tropes comments on that:

• Anti-Hero: Kuroko, either of the unscrupulous or nominal variety.
• Nineties Anti-Hero: Kuroko almost comes off as a parody of these types of characters, personality-wise.
• Sociopathic Hero/Heroic Comedic Sociopath: Kuroko tends to fluctuate between the two.

Only reason she won't do worse is probably because she wants to stay free to sleep with many girls as possible, so don't be fooled by the fact that she saves people and act nice, cause she will happily kill anyone she can, don't matter if the person is good or bad and what they did.

Yeah that's literally what an anti-hero is
A protagonist without the typical "good guy" traits.
Literally, a villainous ish character that is the main protagonist of a plot/series/whatever.

"only reason she's called "hero" is because she's the main character"
But yeah don't take the term "anti-hero" that literally though, it's just the term used to define characters like these.
I don't know who said that they "didn't expect Kuroko to do whatever cus she's an anti-hero", but that means that they don't know what anti hero means either, or you've misread, because being an anti hero (and a known psychotic killer), It's exactly what you'd expect.

And you've said before that "I'm actually really baffled that you guys are whining about what happened to that bully when Minako is the victim here" and I get what you mean.
And I know you weren't specifying who you were replying to, but I just wanna say that I thought a life was a life, and who's ready to take it shouldn't whine when it comes back to them, you know?
They were ready to kill the glasses girl, and were killed (doesn't matter by who) in the end.
I guess it would have ended terribly whether Kuroko intervened or not, and I guess that I rather the bullies die than Minako.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 4:02PM

@Thiaguinho-sama

All you're doing is trying to force your view that Kuroko is an antihero and that rape is too much for her, while it's actually completelly in-character for her, because she's evil, she's a villain protagonist forced to work for the good guys, that doesn't make her an antihero.

Ok ok um
That's what an anti-hero is
Kuroko's pretty twisted and yeah you can call her "evil"
Yes, a villanous protagonist
Even if she wasn't forced to work for the "good guys", she's an anti-hero, because an anti-hero is a main character that " conventional heroic attributes."

I don't think you really understand what an anti-hero is, so let me find more examples for you
Um, like Light from Death Note, is corrupted, plays god
Homura from Madoka Magica, cus for the sake of protecting Madoka, she's willing to do anything
Lisbeth Salander from Millenium (novel trilogy)
Some argue about Lelouch in Code Geass being an anti-hero
Duddy Kravitz from The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, who doesn't give a shit about anyone else and is willing to rip off anyone (even close friends) to acheive his dream (novel)

I can't really name others right now, but what you need to understand, is that an anti-hero is a flawed main character, "a protagonist who lacks conventional heroic qualities such as idealism, courage, and morality."
It's not a bad thing, it's actually deeply interesting, you should look into it :D

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 4:07PM

She didn't rape anyone though.

Ok? She accidentally deflowered a girl with an umbrella then. Cool, now it sounds even more retarded.

Thrill of the confrontation

As in overpowering them until they die. Hence the no merit in killing Hinako thing. I never said she was a good person, I only said that I thought she wasn't supposed to be completely evil, if we took into account her daily life. Then again The_Dog_Lives brings up something I didn't remember, so I may be wrong in that regard, we'll see.

there was no confrontation

We only saw a handful of her killings, and you can see confrontation right in the very same page, so...

she need to want to do good to be an antihero.

I don't think that's a requirement.

you really think after all the killing people saw and expect they're going to care about an accident?

It worked though.

it was an accident

A really stupid, really forced and really unnecessary accident that had absolutely nothing to do with the character, the context, the story, the plot or anything at all in the story. So shock-baiting garbage.

that's not character development, that's being pragmatic.

Ok, fair enough.

and that rape is too much for her,

But I'm not. I said I'm ok if she wanted to rape people, that's not the problem.

while it's actually completelly in-character for her, because she's evil,

But she didn't do it, it was an absurd accident. That's the problem.

she's a villain protagonist forced to work for the good guys, that doesn't make her an antihero.

Sounds like antihero material to me, but that's a whole different issue, stop mixing the two, please.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 4:05PM

You guys actually believe this was an accident? With all her skills? Heh, how naive are you? Just because she says something doesn't mean it's a true statement.

This is just Kuroko fucking around.

Are you really upset about the umbrella scene? Do u guys even know what this manga is about? xD

There's two types of anti-hero, the one that the character is a "hero" who either is flawed or do evil things, like Spider-man and The Punisher for example, and then there's hero in a narrative sense, in that the protagonist is the hero independent of the fact that they're a villain, from a narrative sense I agree that Kuroko can be called an anti-hero, but her character is a villain, she will do horrible things.

A really stupid, really forced and really unnecessary accident that had absolutely nothing to do with the character, the context, the story, the plot or anything at all in the story. So shock-baiting garbage.

But she didn't do it, it was an absurd accident. That's the problem.

The entire manga is absurd and full of gore, to think that was shock bait is ridiculous, you really believe that after all that happened people will be "gasp! she raped a girl with a umbrella! what a horrible monster! thats the worst thing I ever seen in my life!"?

Are you really upset about the umbrella scene? Do u guys even know what this manga is about? xD

Some people doesn't seen to know what this manga is about as that scene is apparently the most disturbing thing in the manga for them.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 4:27PM

You guys actually believe this was an accident? With all her skills? Heh, how naive are you? Just because she says something doesn't mean it's a true statement.

This is just Kuroko fucking around.

Actually edited that in my post before, must have failed to update it. But yeah, this is an accident like severing 2 limbs off of that maid was an accident. Kuroko saying she didn't mean it doesn't mean she didn't mean it.

Also, definition of anti hero isn't even the point. Point is Kuroko is like, way evil. That we have to count "doesn't kill the people she likes" as one of her good points just kinda confirms that.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record here. This should not be so hard to understand. I do not have a problem with the gore or the events that take place in the manga. This goes beyond that. The author decided to put a scene where a girl gets accidentally raped, well, excuse me, deflowered by an umbrella, just because. It had nothing to do with anything or anyone in the manga. It was included as a free distasteful bonus. I find that ridiculously gratuitous and disgusting. If you're ok with that, then good for you, but I certainly don't approve of this kind of bullshit.

I think you guys who are saying we don't know what this manga is about are being prehaps as silly as you guys are claiming we are being for being upset. Just because we know what this manga is about and how stuff plays out does not mean we cannot voice our displeasure with certain aspects or a certain way something plays out.

We are obviously invested (in some capacity) in this manga because we are enjoying it (in some capacity). Would we be reading if we were not? I have been grossed out by this manga before (boom, headshot; Rinko; decapitation train; strangled girls; etc) and still I went out and purchased all the volumes that are currently out because I am enjoying it overall.

And for the record, if Kuroko wasn't the one who did it but Chiyo or Hinako or the sniper lady or whoever, my reaction would have been the same. Like, divorce the scene from everything else that happens in this manga. Violated by an umbrella, kicked in the face, and then stomped to death in front of her friends. The fact that then she gets killed after her violation is what does it for me; not just the umbrella. I know this fits this manga. I still don't like it.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 4:35PM

@Thiaguinho-sama

There's two types of anti-hero, the one that the character is a "hero" who either is flawed or do evil things, like Spider-man and The Punisher for example, and then there's hero in a narrative sense, in that the protagonist is the hero independent of the fact that they're a villain, from a narrative sense I agree that Kuroko can be called an anti-hero, but her character is a villain, she will do horrible things.

But bro
Bro
What do you mean "BUT her character is a villain, she will do terrible things"?
We know.
Calling her an anti-hero is just the term given to villain protagonists.
Calling her an anti-hero doesn't exclude that she IS a villain, we know, mate
I don't know the types of anti hero there are, but she's one that's for sure
By "hero", we just mean the general term for protagonist, we all know that she's a villain
And the term for characters like that, is anti-hero ¯_(ツ)_/¯

@OriginalGengar (nice username btw)

Also, definition of anti hero isn't even the point. Point is Kuroko is like, way evil. That we have to count "doesn't kill the people she likes" as one of her good points just kinda confirms that.

It may not have been the biggest point, but I'm just saying that many are horrified by her actions, and I'm saying that her actions always been this violent and morbid, and even if it took me aback as well, I thought it was pretty normal of her, given her character (cough and being an antihero, that Thiaguinho-sama disagrees with, cough)

@Jade

The author decided to put a scene where a girl gets accidentally raped, well, excuse me, deflowered by an umbrella, just because. It had nothing to do with anything or anyone in the manga. It was included as a free distasteful bonus. I find that ridiculously gratuitous and disgusting. If you're ok with that, then good for you, but I certainly don't approve of this kind of bullshit.

Ouufff yeah you're right, it was horrible.
But I don't know about "free distasteful bonus", because there was a lot of horrible things done to various people in the manga. But don't get me wrong, that other shit happened does NOT make it any more okay for it to have happened, plot-wise, but I just think that you mean it kinda like... that you disapprove of it being drawn? I'm not sure what to tell you, but it certainly was "just because", because Kuroko doesn't really care. The author drew Kuroko doing a lot of fucked up shit that fleshed out her character, showing us pretty much how remorseless and destructive she is.
I understand how you feel, I'm just saying that it's likely more shit happens, and well, as long as we keep reading it, that we should brace ourselves :/

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 4:40PM

I'm starting to sound like a broken record here. This should not be so hard to understand. I do not have a problem with the gore or the events that take place in the manga. This goes beyond that. The author decided to put a scene where a girl gets accidentally raped, well, excuse me, deflowered by an umbrella, just because. It had nothing to do with anything or anyone in the manga. It was included as a free distasteful bonus. I find that ridiculously gratuitous and disgusting. If you're ok with that, then good for you, but I certainly don't approve of this kind of bullshit.

It wasn't accidental. A person of her skill would not misjudge her strike like that. IIRC it is also not the first time she pulls the accident card. She's doing the same as all those characters who say "teehee~ Oops I didnt mean to do that". It's bogus, they meant to do that. It's gratuitous as you say but not from the author inserting ( for a lack of a better word ) some edge into the situation.

Kuroko, once again performed gratuitous acts of violence on a person before ultimately killing them.

Nez Note

I know y'all disagree, but dial it back on getting personal about it, 'k? Just because someone has a problem with something you like (and vice versa I suppose) that doesn't mean they're stupid or a bad person. If you're getting that incensed over it, take a break for from the conversation for a couple hours, decompress a bit before writing another reply.

An anti-hero would be rather someone clumsy, or weak, put in the position of saving the world for example. Like Frodo in LotR. He starts as an anti-hero and then end up a hero.

Kuroko is just a protagonist devoid of empathy. She's not a villain either. Everything she does is completely self-centered. She doesn't kill randomly, but if all the people around her were to die, or if their death had a value for her, she would not think twice about killing them. Even Hinako. And she wouldn't care. That's just how she's written.

So people feel "disgusted" because Kuroko deflowered a girl with an umbrella? Before bashing her head in and throwing her corpse on the wall. Oh wow. Talk about priorities.

Almost everything in this manga is written for shock value. The main protagonist is a serial killer ffs.

An anti-hero would be rather someone clumsy, or weak, put in the position of saving the world for example. Like Frodo in LotR. He starts as an anti-hero and then end up a hero.

I kinda disgree with Frodo an anti-hero and your definition, but let's say it's correct, it would just be a precise example of an anti-hero tho.
You're saying that:
anti-hero => A weak or clumsy protagonist
But that's a flawed logic
A weak or clumsy protagonist can be an anti-hero, but an anti-hero isn't necessary a weak or clumsy protagonist
A guitarist is a musician, but a musician isn't a guitarist, you feel me?

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 5:12PM

An anti-hero would be rather someone clumsy, or weak, put in the position of saving the world for example. Like Frodo in LotR. He starts as an anti-hero and then end up a hero.

Wikipedia ( the only correct source in the world ) disagrees.

An antihero or antiheroine is a protagonist who lacks conventional heroic qualities such as idealism, courage, and morality.[1][2][3][4][5] These individuals often possess dark personality traits such as disagreeableness, dishonesty, and aggressiveness. These characters are usually considered "conspicuously contrary to an archetypal hero".[6]

Kuroko has no idealism, no morality. And she's pretty disagreeable one might say, dishonest as well... Aggresive well... ahem

An anti-hero would be rather someone clumsy, or weak, put in the position of saving the world for example. Like Frodo in LotR. He starts as an anti-hero and then end up a hero.

Actually, that's an unlikely hero. An anti-hero is a character like Deadpool, someone who's a villain but is forced by individuals or circumstance to work for the overall good, usually through less than moral means.

So people feel "disgusted" because Kuroko deflowered a girl with an umbrella? Before bashing her head in and throwing her corpse on the wall. Oh wow. Talk about priorities.

As above, this is kind of insulting. Things like rape do hit closer to home than flamboyant murders. There's much more emotional resonance given it's something that could easily happen to a lot of us or the people we know. Not so much the rest of it.

I have to actually agree with Evilnemesis, there's just no way she made all those things by accident...

Since we're discussing the definition of anti-hero now, aren't characters like Spider-man, Batman, The Punisher, Lord Byron, Lelouch and others also seen as anti-heros because they don't fall completely in the hero category?

Types of anti-heroes according to Tv Tropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/AntiHero?from=Main.SlidingScaleOfAntiHeroes

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 5:19PM

I have to actually agree with Evilnemesis, there's just no way she made all those things by accident...

Since we're discussing the definition of anti-hero now, aren't characters like Spider-man, Batman, The Punisher, Lord Byron, Lelouch and others also seen as anti-heros because they don't fall completely in the hero category?

http://thewritepractice.com/anti-heroes/

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/AntiHero?from=Main.SlidingScaleOfAntiHeroes

Spider-Man and Batman I wouldn't necessarily agree with in most of their presentations (although they've occasionally been written weirdly dark), but Punisher for sure. And if we're talking Spider-Man, Venom has been a good example of an anti-hero from time to time. Wolverine is another example, and why the heck is Marvel full of anti-heroes anyway?

An anti-hero would be rather someone clumsy, or weak, put in the position of saving the world for example. Like Frodo in LotR. He starts as an anti-hero and then end up a hero.

Actually, that's an unlikely hero. An anti-hero is a character like Deadpool, someone who's a villain but is forced by individuals or circumstance to work for the overall good, usually through less than moral means.

Yep. Anti-heroes are great because they diverge from what we'd expect in a heroic character
In fact, they don't even need to work for the overall good, they can pursue their own goals, or just decide to fuck shit up

For instance, Meursault, from L'Étranger de Camus (The Stranger), that wikipedia listed as an example.
He doesn't really care about other people, is distanced from others, sort of emotionless, only pursue actions to fulfill physical needs, such as food, sex, sleep, eventually shoots a man for banal reasons.

Um. Jean Baptiste Grenouille, from Le Parfum (The Perfume). An abandoned child with an extremely keen and sensitive sense of smell, that eventually grows up to become a serial killer, targeting teenage redhead girls and seek to preserve their scent and creates the ultimate perfume.

They can be characters that follow their own senses of justice of course, but the thing is, they will do so, whether readers agree with it or not. (cough Light from Death Note, classic cough)

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 5:26PM

In the end, what does it matter if we put Kuroko in a little box labbeled antihero or not ? No matter how you label her, doesn't change the fact that she's killing people for kicks, because she can and/or because it kinda happens as a result of her actions (the prologue train incident, she set it on a crash course on purpose so the psycho killer would die in an accident rather than by some form of "punishement". She likely knew it would crash in a building of some sort and that it would kill other people. She just probably didn't give a crap about it).

And seriously, if we're down to using tvtropes as reference now, then the conversation reached a new low. That site has a tendency to twist the way they read the material to fit their little labels...

Me, i enjoy that manga because it's rare to have one that is action and gory oriented while being yuri and does it well. And Rinko. <3

Well in case of Spider-man and Batman according to Tv Tropes they're Classical Anti-Hero because they're flawed people, Spider-man is even the trope picture in Classical Anti-Hero page

Light started as anti-hero but he ended up as villain protagonist.

And Faust, I'm pretty sure we're not talking about hero = protagonist, but anti-hero being a character that fights for the good, he's a hero that does questionable things or worse.

I know Tv Tropes is not always a good sourcce but they talk about all kinds of anti-hero, like Nineties Anti-Hero that are basically those anti-heroes like The Punisher that are super violent.

I have to actually agree with Evilnemesis, there's just no way she made all those things by accident...

Since we're discussing the definition of anti-hero now, aren't characters like Spider-man, Batman, The Punisher, Lord Byron, Lelouch and others also seen as anti-heros because they don't fall completely in the hero category?

Types of anti-heroes according to Tv Tropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/AntiHero?from=Main.SlidingScaleOfAntiHeroes

I dunno about Spierderman or Batman, but the rest, yes! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

My understanding of anti-hero is a protagonist that overall is working for good side, but their methods and/or attitude is often closer to that of the typically associated with villains. They will more often lie, use underhanded method, exploit people and in general are ok with going into gray areas and justify their means by end results. So anti-hero, by choice or not, is generally working towards some greater good, but their methods are often questionable from moral standpoint.

You can argue that Kuroko indeed does fit that definition, but that doesn't change the fact that killing innocent people and/or torturing them is in her nature and/or is just how she does things. So even if you define her as anti-hero, it doesn't change the fact she will keep on doing all those horrific things she was already doing before becoming "good".

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 5:32PM