I'm actually kinda surprised it took that long before she got back to killing innocentish people. ^^;

Well, that was fucked up.

it is a manga about a psycho killer.

Sure, but she's supposed to be the "good girl" here. An antiheroine, not straight up evil and petty. Sure, those girls were a bunch of bully jackasses, but they were just schoolgirls, not psycho jackasses with masterplans. And the whole thing with the umbrella? Just why? It was mean spirited and gratuitous as hell, and I'm not blaming Kuroko for that, that's obviously the writer's fault. Going for shock value only made this manga drop a lot in quality.

Hahaha I knew the second she said "No one will be injured" that we were gonna get a body count going.

You talk a lot, Thia.

Jesus fuck, yes.

I know sometimes my posts are way bigger than necessary, but you two know you're not forced to read it right?

It sounded as a obvious thing so I was sure it was in rules, but surprisingly it isn't. Maybe it would be good idea to add it there? (I doubt it will stop people who didn't bother to mark spoilers so far though)

I don't think it need to be in the rules because marking spoilers is common sense, putting in the rules wouldn't make difference because the same people who don't know how to mark spoilers because they don't read the basic markdown thread don't read the rules thread either...

Well, that was fucked up.

it is a manga about a psycho killer.

Sure, but she's supposed to be the "good girl" here. An antiheroine, not straight up evil and petty. Sure, those girls were a bunch of bully jackasses, but they were just schoolgirls, not psycho jackasses with masterplans. And the whole thing with the umbrella? Just why? It was mean spirited and gratuitous as hell, and I'm not blaming Kuroko for that, that's obviously the writer's fault. Going for shock value only made this manga drop a lot in quality.

But Kuroko is straigh up evil, she killed 715 people for fun, she was never an antiheroine, and the umbrella scene was not shock value at all, after all the worse things she done that's nothing,

But Kuroko is straigh up evil, she killed 715 people for fun, she was never an antiheroine,

But that was in the past, that's why she's an antiheroine now. Not anymore, of course. Now I'm rooting for the bad guys. Dunno if we're getting close to the end and that's the author's intentions?

and the umbrella scene was not shock value at all, after all the worse things she done that's nothing,

The thing is that she didn't even intend to do that. That's why it's gratuitous and shock value only. If she had just killed her nothing would had changed, the whole scene is unnecessary.

But Kuroko is straigh up evil, she killed 715 people for fun, she was never an antiheroine,

But that was in the past, that's why she's an antiheroine now. Not anymore, of course. Now I'm rooting for the bad guys. Dunno if we're getting close to the end and that's the author's intentions?

But she didn't change, she's just restraining herself because she's working with the government, but on the inside she's still the same, from what I know we're not even close to ending, so this might be a signal that she's going to start killing innocents.

and the umbrella scene was not shock value at all, after all the worse things she done that's nothing,

The thing is that she didn't even intend to do that. That's why it's gratuitous and shock value only. If she had just killed her nothing would had changed, the whole scene is unnecessary.

Wait, so you really see more shock value in an accidental umbrella rape than she's crushing an innocent underaged girl head with her foot?

Sure, but she's supposed to be the "good girl" here.

No she's not. Where did you get that?

But that was in the past, that's why she's an antiheroine now.

Again, where did you get that? Kuroko never was made out to be the good girl and there never was any character development between psycho killer and psycho killer for hire. From the start she tortured and killed people for fun, those guys being evil just came with the job,

but you two know you're not forced to read it right?

Don't worry, I didn't.

But that was in the past, that's why she's an antiheroine now. Not anymore, of course. Now I'm rooting for the bad guys. Dunno if we're getting close to the end and that's the author's intentions?

She was about to get the death penalty when the cops made her a deal that can be summed up to "you kill some bad guy for us and we delay your execution". And from the way those cops deal with her, it's kinda obvious they know this kind of thing can happen and are merely hoping it won't.

At best, she put on an act in front of the cops and that's pretty much all. And from the company she maintain, aside from the cops, doubt they might have an issue with her killing random people, as we have :
-Hinako who seems to be pretty messed up and sent an elementary schooler in the hospital with broken ribs for just a little thing.
-Rinko who's a psycho killer herself.
-Her yakusa daughter girlfriend whose family probably do worse on a daily basis. And she went on a rampage herself when thinking Kuro was having too much fun in that sect.

So yeah, totally a good guy team here. >>

The thing is that she didn't even intend to do that. That's why it's gratuitous and shock value only. If she had just killed her nothing would had changed, the whole scene is unnecessary.

Did you have a problem with her cutting off Yukari's arm and leg back in the Murder Party arc? Leg lost to just figuring the room out, arm lost to bad timing. How about Takeru's face and chest being shredded in the Domestic Killer arc because of the sniper interference? Her doing horrible things to people by accident is not really that rare.
Innocent people aren't out of the question either. The very first chapter with the wire guy on the train she's the one who sets the train out of control to the point it derails and slams into a building, very likely full of people.

As I said, she's supposed to be an antiheroine, not straight up evil.

Wait, so you really see more shock value in an accidental umbrella rape than she's crushing an innocent underaged girl head with her foot?

Yes. The latter serves a purpose, the former doesn't. It's just something that happens just to shock the readers. It's shameless.

there never was any character development between psycho killer and psycho killer for hire.

Wrong. She cares about her girls.

totally a good guy team here.

An antiheroine team.

Did you have a problem with her cutting off Yukari's arm and leg back in the Murder Party arc?

No, she was fighting her.

Takeru's face and chest being shredded in the Domestic Killer arc because of the sniper interference?

Who, the bad guy? Are you kidding me? Also she outright wanted to kill him in one shot.

the train very likely full of people.

They were clearly all dead by then.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 1:21PM

but you two know you're not forced to read it right?

Don't worry, I didn't.

Good, I need to stop making posts so big, especially because sometimes I get get sidetracked in what I'm saying...

I'm actually liking that so many people are whining about all this, because they're being reminded of what kind of person Kuroko really is, it was actually a good thing that was an accident, because if she really wanted to rape the girl with that umbrella she would probably have done things a lot worse, like inserting the umbrella all the way inside the girl and leave her to have a slow and painful death, I'm actually surprised we didn't see her killing innocents before this, it's probably why some of you forgot that she's an unrepentant killer, torturer, rapist, pedophile and more.

Jade posted:

As I said, she's supposed to be an antiheroine, not straight up evil.

Just because someone who would usually be viewed as villain is a protagonist it doesn't automatically makes them a antihero. To be a antihero, protagonist has to be willing to ignore rules and act by thinking that ends justify means in order to achieve their goal. So antihero has a traits usually associated with villains. Kuroko is psychopath. She murders for fun, not to reach her goal. Nothing makes her a antihero. Antihero doesn't mean "dark protagonist".

Good example is Lelouch from Code Geass. Kuroko is nowhere near that kind of behavior.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 1:29PM

As I said, she's supposed to be an antiheroine, not straight up evil.

Nowhere it says she's supposed to be an antiheroine, you're just assuming that because we only see her fighting other evil guys, in no moment she stopped being straight up evil, a lot of evil characters are extremely nice.

Wait, so you really see more shock value in an accidental umbrella rape than she's crushing an innocent underaged girl head with her foot?

Yes. The latter serves a purpose, the former doesn't. It's just something that happens just to shock the readers. It's shameless.

What purpose the latter serves except Kuroko having fun? Really, you say it's to shock the readers, that's funny because only a few here are whining about that scene, that just shows that most people are not shocked because they know what Kuroko is capable of.

there never was any character development between psycho killer and psycho killer for hire.

Wrong. She cares about her girls.

One doesn't have anything to do with the other.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 1:30PM

What purpose the latter serves except Kuroko having fun? Really, you say it's to shock the readers, that's funny because only a few here are whining about that scene (umbrella to curb stomp), that just shows that most people are not shocked because they know what Kuroko is capable of.

I only speak for myself, but I am only whining because the scene itself made me feel sick. Has nothing to do with Kuroko's capabilities. I wish she didn't do it, but that's just my wish. I know perfectly well it is in character but that doesn't mean I can't go "Why did you do that, Kuroko?"

It's why I shudder every time Rinko is around. I am expecting someone to die when she is there. It is also why I do not like her character at all.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 1:43PM

But most things Kuroko did are sick because she is evil, I understand perfectly well if you think it was maybe unecessary, but now when you starting saying that was for shock value after all the killing and worse things that happened, then thats just silly, the manga didn't have any drop in quality at all, quite the opposite as it's only getting better, why Kuroko did that you ask? Easy, she's evil, that's her way of having fun, simple as that, the umbrella was bad but an accident, but killin the girl was worse and she wanted it, it's okay to not like some of the things she did, but that doesn't mean you can say it's bad writing because that's the kind of character she was from the start, we're just being reminded of that.

Just a warning, Trash is pretty much same kind of manga so you might not like some parts, but it's pretty good and worth and with some yuri.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 1:54PM

protagonist has to be willing to ignore rules and act by thinking that ends justify means in order to achieve their goal

But that's what she does? If she doesn't comply she gets axed, so she has goals, and she does whatever she pleases to to reach them.

She murders for fun, not to reach her goal.

But she doesn't.

What purpose the latter serves except Kuroko having fun?

It moved forward the plot, obviously. The umbrella thing is completely unnecessary.

they know what Kuroko is capable of.

Again, that's not the point. She didn't even want to do that.

One doesn't have anything to do with the other.

It does. You could argue that she treats girls well because she wants to bang them, but you have characters like Hinako, who she doesn't even want to bang anymore and treats her more like a daughter/sister/pet, and she kind of cares about Chiyo. She's less crazy now that at the beginning of the manga because of her girl squad. That's character development.

Well, you can argue all you want, but lastest chapter kinda answer for sure the question "Has Kuroko changed enough to stop killing innocentish people ?"

Answer being "boot to the head".

She murders for fun, not to reach her goal.

But she doesn't.

She does. You're also ignoring that in the previous page to the one you posted, she just admited she killed because she could.

none posted:

She murders for fun, not to reach her goal.

But she doesn't.

She does. You're also ignoring that in the previous page to the one you posted, she just admited she killed because she could.

Also in one you gave she blatantly says the only reason she wouldn't kill her is because there is no merit in it and cop praises her for think before doing for a change, as in she at least is capable of holding herself if in long run she will be able kill more people legally while working with police.

I'm not sure how it was phrased in japanese, but merit can be easily interpreted as "there is no fun in killing her so I won't".

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 2:38PM

the train very likely full of people.

They were clearly all dead by then.

The building. The thing the train plowed into. The thing you purposely removed from the section you're quoting. Those people were dead before she got there?

And I suppose I'll address the moving goal you've got going too. Your complaint was that the injury was not in her intent so it was just for shock value, but other injuries that were not her intent are okay because the people they were antagonists and frankly horrible people. So were the girls here, they planned to beat a girl to death, they seem to have been friends with another girl, Mika, who had no problem with killing on the mere suspicion of betrayal either. A girl apparently horrible enough to warrant assassination. Were they necessarily as bad as their friend? Maybe, and maybe we'll find out. But them bringing her up does provide some extra context to what sort of people they are in general.
Kuroko going any further than the accidental injury only came from being attacked after, which stopped at just breaking a tooth, until her rule of nobody being injured was thrown back at her. Everything but the accident was directly provoked.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 2:54PM

protagonist has to be willing to ignore rules and act by thinking that ends justify means in order to achieve their goal

But that's what she does? If she doesn't comply she gets axed, so she has goals, and she does whatever she pleases to to reach them.

Except that to be an antihero they need to have a good goal, only reason she kill bad guys is to stay free because that's her deal.

What purpose the latter serves except Kuroko having fun?

It moved forward the plot, obviously. The umbrella thing is completely unnecessary.

they know what Kuroko is capable of.

Again, that's not the point. She didn't even want to do that.

And again you're completely ignoring the point that it doens't matter, she's a serial killer, she murders for fun, she taunt and torture her victims because she can, not because it's necessary, you're just making excuses to focus on the umbrella.

One doesn't have anything to do with the other.

It does. You could argue that she treats girls well because she wants to bang them, but you have characters like Hinako, who she doesn't even want to bang anymore and treats her more like a daughter/sister/pet, and she kind of cares about Chiyo. She's less crazy now that at the beginning of the manga because of her girl squad. That's character development.

Wrong, she's as crazy as in the beginning, she killed Hinako parents, if she wanted her dead she would be, she cares about Chiyo because it's her girlfriend, the only character development she had was maybe accepting Rinko as apprentice, and maybe not even that is character development as she could have done the same if she didn't had the deal with the police, we don't know how she was before being released, but she's a psychopath, they don't change, they don't have character development, she do all that because it's her nature and it's fun, not because she have a reason.

last edited at Jan 5, 2016 2:51PM

While everyone is arguing about the crazyness of Kuroko (She is totally not a good person by the way, she says as much in the first chapter), here I am in the corner shipping Hinako and Yatsuha really hard, I mean, did you see that blush on Yatshuha!!? http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/murcielago_ch38#18

She totally want some piece of Hinako !! (If you can't see it, you need stronger yuri googles)

none posted:

She murders for fun, not to reach her goal.

But she doesn't.

She does. You're also ignoring that in the previous page to the one you posted, she just admited she killed because she could.

Also in one you gave she blatantly says the only reason she wouldn't kill her is because there is no merit in it and cop praises her for think before doing for a change, as in she at least is capable of holding herself if in long run she will be able kill more people legally while working with police.

I'm not sure how it was phrased in japanese, but merit can be easily interpreted as "there is no fun in killing her so I won't".

There we go, that's the point. She doesn't find fun in the act of murdering itself, she's there for the thrill of the confrontation.

The building.

We didn't see any dead people resulting from that, and in any case, crashing it into the building wasn't her intention either.

Your complaint was that the injury was not in her intent so it was just for shock value, but other injuries that were not her intent are okay because the people they were antagonists and frankly horrible people.

No, the other unintended things were perfectly ok because they happened as a result of some fight. It wasn't Kuroko accidentally raping a girl with an umbrella just because she was trying to stop her from doing something. Don't you see how stupid that sounds? That's my problem with it.

only reason she kill bad guys is to stay free because that's her deal.

That's her goal, and as a result she stops even crazier people from doing more evil. Antihero.

And again you're completely ignoring the point that it doens't matter

And you're completely ignoring my point. She didn't do it to kill her. She didn't do it to taunt nor to torture her. She didn't do it because she could. I'd had been actually ok if any of those were the case, because it would had been arguable due to her character, but it wasn't. It was a really forced accident, done only to shock people, and that's distasteful. You may say, "well, accidents happen and it was just a matter of time before..." yes, but not fucking raping a girl with an umbrella. That's just retarded.

she cares about Chiyo because it's her girlfriend, the only character development she had was maybe accepting Rinko as apprentice

A psycho killer getting a girlfriend, an apprentice and friends sounds like character development to me.

Hinako and Yatsuha

Now, that was the good part of the chapter. Those 2 are pretty cute together.

Jade posted:

not fucking raping a girl with an umbrella.

She didn't rape anyone though.

none posted:

She murders for fun, not to reach her goal.

But she doesn't.

She does. You're also ignoring that in the previous page to the one you posted, she just admited she killed because she could.

Also in one you gave she blatantly says the only reason she wouldn't kill her is because there is no merit in it and cop praises her for think before doing for a change, as in she at least is capable of holding herself if in long run she will be able kill more people legally while working with police.

I'm not sure how it was phrased in japanese, but merit can be easily interpreted as "there is no fun in killing her so I won't".

There we go, that's the point. She doesn't find fun in the act of murdering itself, she's there for the thrill of the confrontation.

Thrill of the confrontation? Like in slashing someone's throats from behind? If she were just in for that, she wouldn't kill -- she does it because she can (her own words), and most likely because she enjoys it. At no point the author tried to pretend Kuroko's a good person. It honestly amuses me how people are surprised by it...