Nya-chan:

mob mentality

I'm too indifferent and individualistic in real life. Finally I can belong to a mob. FF mob. And only FF could make me mob.

FF is nice, I will keep reading it, but it's nothing to write home about

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

Why? If I see bullies, I just shut-up and go my way sheepishly? Nope, I'll just keep biting at their ankles. For great justice.

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

Why? If I see bullies, I just shut-up and go my way sheepishly? Nope, I'll just keep biting at their ankles. For great justice.

You have inspired me,

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

Why? If I see bullies, I just shut-up and go my way sheepishly? Nope, I'll just keep biting at their ankles. For great justice.

You have inspired me,

See? Ad-hominem. Easy way out.

If I was in a foul mood I'd file a complaint to a moderator for attacking me and not my opinion. But you just happened to show your true colors.

last edited at Nov 18, 2015 3:20AM

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

Why? If I see bullies, I just shut-up and go my way sheepishly? Nope, I'll just keep biting at their ankles. For great justice.

You have inspired me,

See? Ad-hominem. Easy way out.

I'm not attacking. I'm goofing off and I think the thread is pretty derailed. "For great justice" gave me a giggle.

Also attempting to diffuse from the blatant targeting.

Jesus christ. I was making a joke because you said something that struck me as funny. I'm not attacking you.

last edited at Nov 18, 2015 3:22AM

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

Why? If I see bullies, I just shut-up and go my way sheepishly? Nope, I'll just keep biting at their ankles. For great justice.

You have inspired me,

See? Ad-hominem. Easy way out.

I'm not attacking. I'm goofing off and I think the thread is pretty derailed. "For great justice" gave me a giggle.

Also attempting to diffuse from the blatant targeting.

Usual excuse of bullies. "We're just having fun. Why so serious? She's such a killjoy."

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

Why? If I see bullies, I just shut-up and go my way sheepishly? Nope, I'll just keep biting at their ankles. For great justice.

You have inspired me,

See? Ad-hominem. Easy way out.

I'm not attacking. I'm goofing off and I think the thread is pretty derailed. "For great justice" gave me a giggle.

Also attempting to diffuse from the blatant targeting.

Usual excuse of bullies. "We're just having fun. Why so serious? She's such a killjoy."

I'm sorry that you misinterpreted me. Clearly the situation has gotten too tense. I only found your description humorous and I have no further investment in the argument.

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

Why? If I see bullies, I just shut-up and go my way sheepishly? Nope, I'll just keep biting at their ankles. For great justice.

Hmm.. Maybe the entire world are bullies to the ISIS. Maybe ISIS' fights are for real justice.

Jk. But don't bring the topic of justice in this little thread. No one is bullying. You just decided to bark first.

Excuses accepted. We will leave it at that.

I think you could finally put it to rest. Please just keep it to yourself. Don't bother with the mob.

Why? If I see bullies, I just shut-up and go my way sheepishly? Nope, I'll just keep biting at their ankles. For great justice.

Hmm.. Maybe the entire world are bullies to the ISIS. Maybe ISIS' fights are for real justice.

I'm French. Jokes about ISIS do not make me laugh.

Jk. But don't bring the topic of justice in this little thread. No one is bullying. You just decided to bark first.

Woof.

last edited at Nov 18, 2015 5:21AM

My condolences to your loss

I could write an essay about what I think is wrong with FF, but then a few people here would reply with twice as long refutations and would just drown my opinion under sheer text. My lack of answer would be considered their victory, while actually it would just mean I'm not as involved as them. I'm conscious my opinion seem half-baked because of that, but watching a few people raving about FF and attempting to quell any dissenting opinion with dismissive and ad-hominem comments gets on my nerves.

When your opinions of FF are worded in such a way that serve to do nothing more than foster a hostile environment without any productive discussion and to provoke others, it really makes people wonder why you bother saying things like that in the first place. Do you enjoy getting a rise out of the common "mob mentality" plebeian fans? Some of your "criticisms" are so far-fetched that you have to resort to directly insulting or disrespecting the author. And I don't think that's okay.

If your opinion sounds stupid and lacks the evidence to back it up, it's obvious that people who think otherwise are going to call you out for it. But if you're only going to play the victim card every time and say "Wah wah these bullies are being mean to me because they don't agree with my opinion!" because you don't have legitimate, convincing arguments for said opinion, there's honestly no point in posting it in the first place. If you can't handle the heat/don't want to bother defending your opinion, again it would be best not to post such comments.

In other words, stop trying to start shit on this thread for the sake of starting shit. It doesn't add anything to the discussion, and really it's just a waste of time. If you don't think your past few comments have sounded hostile or provocative, you should go back to read them and reconsider. Provoking others into responding to you and then whining about those responses because they're "mean" is hardly "BITING THE ANKLES OF BULLIES FOR LE JUSTICE". If you tell someone they look like crap, don't be surprised when they end up punching you in the face. If you can't handle the heat, don't dish it out.

Do you really believe that the majority of people here would read your negative criticisms and nod their heads while jerking you off and saying "Mmhmm, yup yup, you're so right Nya-chan! I'm SO stupid haha I can't believe I've never thought of FF that way before!"? People are clearly going to want to argue against you or ask you to justify your answer.

last edited at Nov 18, 2015 4:28AM

I wrote previously about what is bothering me in the way the story is told, but I will give it another shot.

Though I have a hunch I will be told it’s not a big deal, that it’s actually well done, or that my opinion is ridiculous.

-  FF is real slow. We’re at half of the story and neither of the characters have confessed. Hell, we’re not even sure what kind of relationship they want. I can’t even picture them having sex!

-  Except Seol-a and No-rae, none of the characters have any depth or presence.

-  The various oppas or guys in the story are all forgettable and don’t have any meaningful interactions with the two main.

-  Except maybe Ji-hwan (?) who had a crush on No-rae, but he’s out of the picture now because he was rejected and gave-up.

-  The female friends are even worse. They are used just as a way to get a glimpse of the two MCs past, they have no real personality whatsoever. They pop up randomly in order to make some exposition.

-  The traffic accidents trope is just overused. A car for Yu-ji, a bus for No-rae and a bike for Seol-a. Did she avoid a truck on purpose?

-  The overhearing conversation trope is overused too. In the classroom, in the washroom, at the vending machine…

-  The characters being drunk. Or with a cold.

-  The ex, or it’s shadow, coming between the characters.

-  Interrupted confession.

-  Convenient car at Seol-a’s disposal.

-  Drama for the sake of drama and I’m sure you all read elsewhere : death, painful love, unexplained break-up, abusive boyfriend, hostility because of “too perfect”.

It’s just what comes to mind at the top of my head, I’ll stop here. I would need to re-read the whole thing to find more, but I’m sure I would eventually.

It just piles up over the course of the story and because I like the characters of Seol-a and No-rae, it bothers me to no end to see them in these artificial situations.

That my perception of FF for now and I doubt any wall of text is going to change my feelings about this. I think other people around here feel the same, but they just don’t voice it. So here I am, because I feel it needs to be said instead of bathing in universal praise.

You have the right to disagree, but just don't belittle other people's opinion.

That my perception of FF for now and I doubt any wall of text is going to change my feelings about this. I think other people around here feel the same, but they just don’t voice it. So here I am, because I feel it needs to be said instead of bathing in universal praise.

It's almost like you didn't even read anything anyone has said to you lmao

because I feel it needs to be said instead of bathing in universal praise.

^Passive-aggressive comments like this are completely unnecessary, and this is exactly what I meant when I said you're provoking others into responding to you

But whatever there's no point in having a discussion with someone who says "I'm never going to change my opinions because I'm always right in my own head, so here enjoy". You just completely averted the issue. As a final thought, all I'm gonna say is that you have the right to have an opinion, but 1) Don't provoke others with useless shitposting and create a hostile environment where it's you vs. the world 2) It's not okay to insult or disrespect the author.

This is not necessarily true. He could still come up while they were dating and create conflict inside No-Rae's mind and as a result in their relationship too. It's not like couples don't face some drama in their relationship. Even if they have healed their past wounds, it is common for new ones to come up too.
But this is the direction Ssamba has chosen for them to take. To heal everything from the past first, which is a healthier way to develop a relationship.
I do think No-Rae would be scared off if she heard the confession though instead of accept it.

Yeah I mean it's definitely possible that Ssamba could have introduced him + No-rae's past after they got together. But like you said, it probably wouldn't have been very clean, and might have lead to a lot more complications. No-rae doesn't have a set of big gay balls yet, unfortunately.

last edited at Nov 18, 2015 5:35AM

In my mind I know well what I like or dislike about the story, what makes me come back every week to follow Ssamba in the journey of storytelling.Reading all the analyses, speculations, sighs,jokes and critics - I consider enjoyable and the fact that so many people invest the most precious they have - their time - just to leave a comment or read through the blocks of lines, it speaks for itself. Well, we all may have different attitudes of mind towards the subject matter or various pattens of wording that sometimes lead to misunderstandings, but non of that can offend me personally. And from what I've read of Nya-chans's comments so far, I doubt she is an ignorant person who would waste his time on provoking anyone on a forum.

Nya-chan

I wrote previously about what is bothering me in the way the story is told, but I will give it another shot.

.....
That my perception of FF for now and I doubt any wall of text is going to change my feelings about this. I think other people around here feel the same, but they just don’t voice it. So here I am, because I feel it needs to be said instead of bathing in universal praise.

You have the right to disagree, but just don't belittle other people's opinion.

Aw. If you just started with that wall of post instead of the out of the blue previous one . . .

I'm not sure Ssamba put that much thought in her story. People here sure are in deep.

The curtains were fucking blue.

But then, I've done the same for other stories, so...

^That I think really was just craving for some attention.

I'd just like to emphasize what ffins07 said:

Hello, Nya-chan.

What was the purpose of your comment? Was this a reply to anyone in particular...or everyone??

** The tone is not neutral. And, in the context of your past posts, it's decidedly negative.**

Having read your past posts, you've made it clear that various expectations you early developed in the story weren't met. That stinks, I guess.

But that's you. Clearly, other people are still enjoying it. A lot of people are reading and commenting in this forum.

You expressed an opinion about the story, "I'm not sure Ssamba put that much thought in her story.". In some ways I think you could be right. I know there are times when fans go to question their favorite authors and producers and find that a lot of the output was instinctive or habitual or something. Whether they did or not, how people interpret and perceive the work is.

This is a forum dedicated to Fluttering Feelings, and I think we should all be able to express negative and positive reviews of it in its entirety, the author, chapters, etc. You've been one of the few to express pretty negative reviews of certain chapters or events, and certainly you received some harsh replies for some, if not most of those. I think that stinks too.

That said, after your initial two or so negative "reviews", the following negative "reviews" were themselves inflammatory or accompanied by irrelevant inflammatory phrases and remarks targeted less at the work and more at the community--this forum and/or its participants. That's the thing that really eats at me.

** I really wish you'd make an attempt to reenter the discussion instead of randomly dropping posts like this.** "People here" refers to the forum participants. It's not an observation or review of the work or author. It's not objective.

So, I'm honestly asking what are you trying to accomplish? And would you be willing to attempt reentering the discussion? You must've noticed people have been replying and reacting less to any opinion you've expressed of the work and more so to your tone. None of your negative posts, even the early ones, really invited discussion. I don't think the all of them merited all of the replies,but you played your part in feeding the "flames". And you didn't incorporate the responses (feedback) into trying to make your next attempt at expressing a negative opinion more invitational.

If you're going to drop an opinion that you think pretty much everyone will reject, why not try to structure it in a way such that at least a significant number might not? And then maybe you'll find more people who feel a bit more the way you do can all join in on what could become a more diverse discussion.

I had some constructive counters to some of the objections you raised around clichés, but there really was no room to post them with the immediate and lengthy wave of backlash.

I hope you're not getting pleasure out of upsetting "everyone". Dismissal hurts. And that's how I read this post. I think it was pretty nasty. It took a while before I even noticed that the entire post wasn't directed at all of the the people posting in and viewing this forum. I'd reply to it; it being, "I'm not sure Ssamba put that much thought in her story.", but I can't tell if you actually care to read a structured response. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ And if you're just trying to mess with people to see what kind of rise you'll get, well... Even if some people have deeply offended you, please, don't take your frustrations out on everyone.

Anyway, I think I've spent enough words off topic. If you--or anyone--posts a comment that's just a complaint (without any reference to anything), I'm just gonna ignore it. Flaming would just lead to...more flames. I don't think its perfect, and I'm not just thinking of the majority-shared opinions (e.g, the well-documented "same face" "issue"). If you decide to stick on topic, I'm open to hearing your views, both negative and positive, about Fluttering Feelings (even if they're all negative now :?).

Again, the point here this time would be that seemingly out of the blue post, but in a hindsight, we've been discussing all these before, it got derailed yes, so please don't do it again.

The root of my criticism is probably that I feel Seol-a's and No-rae's character goodness is wasted in a mashup of bland plotlines I've read elsewhere before, just separatly.

The moments I enjoy are those when they interact with each other, alone and we can "see" their mutual feelings swirling and fluttering (eh). For these, I keep reading and makes me love them.

But the rest feels forced. To me.

Yeah...I'm not sure what you're seeking to gain by complaining Nya-chan.

FF is real slow. We’re at half of the story and neither of the characters have confessed. Hell, we’re not even sure what kind of relationship they want. I can’t even picture them having sex!

I don't see the problem with this. At all. At least 75% of the other stories on dynasty have a first kiss within the first chapter. The problem is that there are almost -no- legitimate slow-burn manga/manhwa like this. Why are you complaining like everything's slow-burn?

Except Seol-a and No-rae, none of the characters have any depth or presence.

You say this like we've been reading a 300 page novel. We've read about 50 "pages" if we can even count them as such. Furthermore, the way FF is written, it's seen as snapshots of Seol-a/No-rae's lives. Why the heck would side characters then have their own sort of tangent?

The various oppas or guys in the story are all forgettable and don’t have any meaningful interactions with the two main.

The female friends are even worse. They are used just as a way to get a glimpse of the two MCs past, they have no real personality whatsoever. They pop up randomly in order to make some exposition.

I don't know what kind of real-life experience you have, but it's obviously vastly different from mine. I have gone 3+ weeks without seeing people I have the same classes (offset times obviously) with. But when I [do] get to interact with some of these people, sometimes the memories they leave stay on for months [I should know...a few memories ruined my sleep for months orz]. My point is: just because people are only occasionally showing up and making a lasting impression on either the character or the story -- it sure as heck doesn't mean it's not realistic. And if realism isn't the reason you're bashing it, I honestly don't understand what your problem was to begin with.

Drama for the sake of drama

Dude. Seriously. That's the whole point of reading any story. Who wants to read a story about some sheltered kid who nothing ever happens to? Sometimes people have awesome stories that people do want to read. This is like an extension of that. There's drama. Drama can happen. It's not overdone, hell. I know way more people that had far more traumatizing backstories than the stuff either/or (especially since No-rae's seems quite "basic", not to belittle her trauma) experienced.

So here I am, because I feel it needs to be said instead of bathing in universal praise.

I feel like you just unnecessarily put yourself up on a pedestal as being the champion of those that can't/won't speak...

Argue if you'd like. Heck, I know you've had issues with FF for a while. But don't put words in other peoples mouths, that's my biggest pet peeve. So far, you've been one of the only people I've seen -- on any medium, but I don't frequent /u/ (/u/ people aren't afraid to say crap tho) -- who have issue with FF.

last edited at Nov 18, 2015 6:15AM

I wonder if Nezchan will show up to change the direction of the discourse.

I wonder if Nezchan will show up to change the direction of the discourse.

Why?

Moderators just enforce the rules and not one of them has been broken AFAIK.

She may have her opinion on the matter at hand and is free to write it though.

Why?

Because I remember last time her intervening at some point.Anyway, you have a point.

we all are unique different individuals who came fr different walks of life. It's natural we have different view on things. With that being said, someone reminded me that I don't have to agree with the author 100% in order to enjoy the book. imo, if ff had progressed in faster pace I dont think I would have enjoyed the story this much. To be honest, there r times I want Seola to just grasp Norae and kiss her. then again, ff is no wdtfs

Blackkitty

Why?

Because I remember last time her intervening at some point.Anyway, you have a point.

Nezchan shows only when the discussion derails from thread's purpose. You talk about opinion that FF isn't as good as people say and imo that is right within purpose of this thread. Sure you could slow down on ganging at Nya-chan, but I didn't read entire thread to know how wrong or right you are about that. At least I know that however Nya-chan's posts my sounds, she never intend to provoke anyone. If anything they might be worded the way that is easy to misinterpret, but I'm sure she, herself doesn't look out for fights or wants to insult anyone. That being said I do can comment on this:

HypocriticalLiar

Yeah...I'm not sure what you're seeking to gain by complaining Nya-chan.

If she likes 1 part of the story, but dislike everything else, why shouldn't she complain? Sure not like author will just change it, but ain't this like the purpose of threads like that? To say what you don't like about the series? And see if someone shares your opinion?

FF is real slow. We’re at half of the story and neither of the characters have confessed. Hell, we’re not even sure what kind of relationship they want. I can’t even picture them having sex!

I don't see the problem with this. At all. At least 75% of the other stories on dynasty have a first kiss within the first chapter. The problem is that there are almost -no- legitimate slow-burn manga/manhwa like this. Why are you complaining like everything's slow-burn?

I agree that you can't really say story is too slow or too fast, since it depends on what author intended. I agree I didn't mind slow pace at first, but I expected them to hook much faster, so now I'm kinda annoyed at the length, but that is not the main issue. To me, especially with yuri, the biggest fear is what comes after confession. Because usually stories ends once they hook up and I really want to read more. I was really hyped to ready more about them, so fact that they still are not in relationship after so long really fears me, because from my experience, the longer series go without character being together, then the biggest fear that once they are together, there won't be told too much/story will end shortly after. That is the reason why I still prefer chars to hook faster, since even if story is planned to be longer, I have no guarantee how long it will last and if I get my dose of couple life from them. Basically chances that story will last as long once they are a couple are really small and I don't like setting myself for disappointment. Again. I learned to not have much expectations in cases like this, cos they almost never are fulfilled.

Except Seol-a and No-rae, none of the characters have any depth or presence.

You say this like we've been reading a 300 page novel. We've read about 50 "pages" if we can even count them as such. Furthermore, the way FF is written, it's seen as snapshots of Seol-a/No-rae's lives. Why the heck would side characters then have their own sort of tangent?

Em, how you read any manga? Most side characters have like few panels, few pages max of presence and they always are flashed out. Some basic stuff, but we get to know their general personalties/relation to MC. You don't need to take "300" pages to introduce side character. About it being just Seol/No lives. Yes their are main focus, but they are not alone in the world. There has to be some other interaction with others characters. And if they were established as kinda important, but you can't say anything about them that isn't because there was no time for it. That is a sign of bad writing.

The various oppas or guys in the story are all forgettable and don’t have any meaningful interactions with the two main.

The female friends are even worse. They are used just as a way to get a glimpse of the two MCs past, they have no real personality whatsoever. They pop up randomly in order to make some exposition.

I don't know what kind of real-life experience you have, but it's obviously vastly different from mine. I have gone 3+ weeks without seeing people I have the same classes (offset times obviously) with. But when I [do] get to interact with some of these people, sometimes the memories they leave stay on for months [I should know...a few memories ruined my sleep for months orz]. My point is: just because people are only occasionally showing up and making a lasting impression on either the character or the story -- it sure as heck doesn't mean it's not realistic. And if realism isn't the reason you're bashing it, I honestly don't understand what your problem was to begin with.

Did you read what Nya-chan wrote at all? She said background characters are completely blank and replaceable since they only serve as plot device. That is not the same as being memorable and making a lasting impressions as you wrote. They don't make a lasting impression, the exposition they are talking about make lasting impression and exposition isn't part of their character.

Drama for the sake of drama

Dude. Seriously. That's the whole point of reading any story. Who wants to read a story about some sheltered kid who nothing ever happens to? Sometimes people have awesome stories that people do want to read. This is like an extension of that. There's drama. Drama can happen. It's not overdone, hell. I know way more people that had far more traumatizing backstories than the stuff either/or (especially since No-rae's seems quite "basic", not to belittle her trauma) experienced.

Again. You miss important part of her sentence. I agree. I like fluff etc. but I don't mind drama when it is a result of characters actions, or past, or it organically fuels the story. But if drama comes out of nowhere and is just there so you have something to agonize about "cos it is drama, and it is sad" then it is a "drama for the sake of drama". Nya-chan wants to read story with drama that makes sense in the world or comes from within the story. Not some random drama that happens just so it can move story along. If you can't move story and need to use some external force to progress it then, again, that is just sign of bad writing. I share that opinion so I fully agree with her.

So here I am, because I feel it needs to be said instead of bathing in universal praise.

I feel like you just unnecessarily put yourself up on a pedestal as being the champion of those that can't/won't speak...

She kinda did, but I agree that FF is far from perfect and it has its flaws, so if everyone in this thread only says how it is the best work ever, I totally can imagine her feeling need to say otherwise. Reading work that you don't enjoy as much as everyone else and they clearly seems to not notice any flaws you do, sure is alienating.

last edited at Nov 18, 2015 9:33AM

Nez Note

Indeed, Nezchan was seriously thinking about showing up even before being invoked. But who can resist a good summoning?

Nya-chan, it's clear from reading the past few pages that you're the source of pretty much all the argument in this discussion lately. I agree that you haven't broken any rules overtly, but Rule 1 states "Being overly aggressive, insulting, and generally a jerk to other commenters is against the rules," and while you've been keeping to the letter of the law, you're hovering pretty close to the edge. The rules also state that the mod(s) may interpret them to suit the situation, and as always I interpret rules in light of keeping conversation flowing as smoothly as possible, without drama or flame wars.

I have no intention of banning you or anything like that. But I'm asking you to take the rest of the week off from the Fluttering Feelings Spoiler Thread. Come back Monday if you want, I won't stand in your way. But take those few days. Chill. Read something else that you enjoy. Maybe take up knitting. Just decompress, and come back fresh, please.

As to the rest of you I expect you to do your part. Don't continue any of this silliness. Don't respond to the comments already posted on this topic. Re-centre yourself on enjoying the series, which is more fun for everyone in the long run anyhow.

tl;dr Chill, y'all.

last edited at Nov 18, 2015 9:37AM

Pointing out the flows in a story is not a bad thing. Constructive analysis should not be consisted only of positive feedback. Of course, on the other hand, people shouldn't deliberately start "arguements" just to make a mess without any intention to actually discuss the story.
FF is widely known for the slow pace. So complaining about it, is like choosing to watch a comedy movie and complain that it had too much comedy in it.

What is very essential and maybe some don't understand is that the slow pace itself is what makes the characters who they are. They are a package with the slow pace. Because of their characters, they don't act fast on their feelings, they need time and sometimes space to process the situations etc. And this makes the story slower too.
If the story was faster, the characters wouldn't be the same, because they would have to act differently, thus changing very important parts of theirselves.

Most people were curious about what happened with Sung-Pyo and this chapter was very necessary for this reason too. You cannot have a story with just two characters all the time. Unless it's an one shot and most probably fluff, like them going on dates or being intimate. It's easy to make a couple of chapters like this and then end it. But to develop properly their relationship, surprise, it takes time. If the story was finished and someone read all the 100 chapters in one, I dont think this one chapter would be a problem. But because we have to wait one week everytime, some people may feel it's worse than it is, because then they have to wait to get a satisfying chapter.
The story is already 51 chapters and everyone can see how this goes. It's not going to suddenly change. So if someone feels like there is a major part that they can't handle, it's completely their responsibility to choose to read it or not.