Forum › The Invincible Lost Ones discussion
I feel like some people are taking this way too seriously. Like, you'd have to be pretty far off to take this whole thing as advice or think that it needs to portray a 100% realistic situation about suicidal ideation and shit.
I feel like some people are taking this way too seriously. Like, you'd have to be pretty far off to take this whole thing as advice or think that it needs to portray a 100% realistic situation about suicidal ideation and shit.
Eh, it's worth mentioning. As someone who has had a suicide in the family AND who, as an angsty teenager in high school, from time to time thought "I just want to die" or "I might as well be dead" (and who knew other people who said the same), I know there's an obvious difference between "suicidal ideation" on the one hand and self-dramatization on the other. I knew at the time that I just meant "I'm tired of thinking about my [absolutely bog-standard] teenage problems," or that said problems seemed like they would never end.
The problem is that from the outside somebody else has no way of knowing the difference. And in this case, where the characters actually take actions supposedly leading to suicide, it's not wildly off-base for someone to remind us about the real thing.
I think there should be a "bullying" tag
I think there should be a "bullying" tag
Agreed. Just submitted the suggestion to add it.
I thought it was going to end at the train ride page, leaving it with an open, but kinda obvious what woild happen, ending. I also kinda thought they would find an old lesbian couple in that hut that would impart wisdom and inspiring words onto them. Oh well, it was still really good
Eh, it's worth mentioning. As someone who has had a suicide in the family AND who, as an angsty teenager in high school, from time to time thought "I just want to die" or "I might as well be dead" (and who knew other people who said the same), I know there's an obvious difference between "suicidal ideation" on the one hand and self-dramatization on the other. I knew at the time that I just meant "I'm tired of thinking about my [absolutely bog-standard] teenage problems," or that said problems seemed like they would never end.
This. From experience.
As a teen and as a young adult, I had to deal with friends who actually tried suicide because (grossly simplyfying here for brevity) of a passing exogenous cause (read: acute but temporary depresive episode from external causes like a love deception) who simply needed to be wacked over the head in a friendly way so they get over it, and I had to deal with friends who actually tried suicide for a serious endogenous depression (read: the kind of chemical imbalance-caused depression that is a SEVERE mental health problem) who needed months of professional therapy and LOTS of help to prevent recurrent crisis and attempts. (I also had friends who got a serious endogenous depression as result of an exogenous cause and tried suicide just once, yet required LOTS of therapy and help afterwards). I even had to deal with pre-teens who were just morons and thought the idea of suicide was romantic, not truly thinking about the consequences - I kid you not. Those needed a stern telling-off - which would have triggered a crisis on the other ones. I still can't fucking believe I managed to get them all not to kill themselves, given that I was NOT trained at the time. Let's just say that the first-hand knowledge of just how hairy those situations could be got me to get actual training later in my life - and I'm FUCKING GRATEFUL that said training never needed to be put to use anymore.
TL:DR; the behaviours of suididal persons can run a VERY wide gamut.
What works with one person may actually trigger the suicide of another.
Leave this stuff for profesionals.
But the story was very sweet, and would have actually worked on SOME cases. Just not ALL.
BTW, actually voting for a don't try this at hometag.
last edited at Oct 26, 2020 6:44AM
But the story was very sweet, and would have actually worked on SOME cases. Just not ALL.
I think that's the best take here. I personally read the story as Natsuka being depressed because she wasn't confident enough to express her feelings for Miyu, which combined with Other Stuff to snowball into an absolute nightmare. On the other hand, Miyu probably reciprocated her feelings, but felt guilty or uncomfortable about putting her on the spot when she was clearly depressed, and decided to take her time. When Natsuka expresses suicidal tendencies, Miyu sort of rolls with it, which suggests that she's either used to it or has been vaguely expecting that this would happen, and makes a rational plan to give Natsuka time to think and cope whilst setting up external safeguards (which is a generally good strategy). I don't think she planned to come onto Natsuka at night, since that would involve ridiculous amounts of foresight, but she saw that her friend had shifted from the determination phase to the doubt phase, and now really wanted someone to talk her out of killing herself. One thing led to another and Miyu basically just went in with everything and managed to resolve at least one segment of Natsuka's worries. I think the issue comes from the last lines, where Natsuka declares that she's invincible now, which makes Miyu's actions look like a perfect solution instead of a series of half-clever, half-lucky guesses. It's the same Incredibly Lucky Lesbian trope that we've seen in the story where the S randomly smacks her friend who was an M, or in that other oneshot where a lesbian randomly kisses her homophobic coworker who just turns out to be secretly gay. Reality is dull and depressing, and though certain authors try to deal with real-world issues for drama, it's often much more fulfilling to give these gloomy issues a neat and heartwarming conclusion, no matter how overtly convenient it might sometimes seem.
BTW, actually voting for a
don't try this at hometag.
Would that come automatically packaged with guro, lolicon, rape, etc, or do we assume that people have basic common sense and only use it for stories with ambiguous moral implications and questionable aesops? I can't wait for the Would This Work in Real Life? debates if the tag actually comes into use.
BTW, actually voting for a
don't try this at hometag.Would that come automatically packaged with guro, lolicon, rape, etc, or do we assume that people have basic common sense and only use it for stories with ambiguous moral implications and questionable aesops? I can't wait for the Would This Work in Real Life? debates if the tag actually comes into use.
Well, as I mentioned above, there's another Momono Moto story, Yuunagi Marbled, which is actually my favorite of the author's stories, because it not only flips the script on a whole bunch of dark-yuri clichés in general but also serves as a self-parody of the author's own angsty stories in particular.
But there's a section where one of the MCs plots to snap the depressive, vaguely self-harming other MC out of obsessing about their past tragic love by suddenly bringing them into contact with that lost love, who is now married and a mother.
It works in the story, but in therapeutic terms it's actually a pretty shitty idea and might well have been massively triggering in real life.
But yeah, if anybody needs a "don't stab your friend to hide your kidnapped loli" tag (as in Happy Sugar Life), a warning tag isn't going to help much.
thought this was gonna turn dark but boy that was quite a nice surprise
We never know with momono
last edited at Oct 30, 2020 7:23PM
