Forum › What Does the Fox Say discussion
lol it's very hard to argue for or against a character in the story when you have to factor in "plot device" into the same equation. Because then where would the character definition ends and plot device begins? Murky waters
Think like that and you can't argue.
Well..they tend to inevitably get dragged into the picture..=.= (they already do in a lot of the discussion here)
Well..they tend to inevitably get dragged into the picture..=.= (they already do in a lot of the discussion here)
Like what?
Sungji did take Sumin back and allow Seju to live in the house. I'm sure she did not do those things without hesitation. It seems like that was Sungji trying to salvage and rebuild her relationship with Sumin. Rebuilding trust takes time and communication AND dedication. In the month that she was still with Sumin, it may not have seemed to Sungji that things were getting better.
1 month Is pretty short, dont you think? To improve something called relationship for it to get better. So giving it up right now is a little bit too soon, dont you think? Especially when she already stuck around before even if she didnt need to.
That is EXACTLY what they should be doing. But the thing is, that neither of them understand the concept of healthy communication. Sumin thinks she can just apologize and then act like nothing ever happened and Sungji just doesn't say what she's thinking and goes with the flow even if she doesn't really like what's happening.
Then what are you trying to prove? You're proving her leave is commendable but without trying to communicate and she has already backed away and thought she cant do this.
That is not a commendable act, that is a coward act.
What? How can Sungji read her mind just from a sad look? Sumin doesn't mention that she attended the funeral and she never mentions that she told Seju goodbye for good? (Although, maybe we will get a flashback in the next couple chapters of more of their conversation like Nora said)
No, from all the things before, from the time when Seju was out of the house because of some stupid argument and Sungji had a phone call with Sumin => she knew that Sumin always cares for Seju even though she said otherwise.
On the bed talk from whatever chapter, Sumin said "I've cut all ties with her but I cant ignore her about this"
And about Seju with Sumin ended things already. Pretty easy, right? Sumin is on a date with Sungji while Seju just buried her father. Sumin is with her, instead of being with Seju at the moment.
If I were Sungji, I could've already guessed Sumin is ignoring Seju because of me, to the very least
I agree, that's a very rational decision. But you know, then the story would be too easy XD
Yeah, but running away without trying to talk and you're proving her act is commendable. If that is a commendable decision, then it should be a rational decision, too.
You said this is a rational decision so what about yours?
last edited at Aug 22, 2017 6:39AM
Lol yeah dawoon is a better example.
That's a reason her appearance cut short since she is just that straightforward toward sungji...
I want to mention her but doubting if she is that straightforward before going back to korea
@yoonie
It's rare seeing you take sumin's side lol
last edited at Aug 22, 2017 6:48AM
@yoonie
It's rare seeing you take sumin's side lol
Hahaha, most of my comments are about Seju =))))), so its no wonder that its rare, lolll
tbh, I've never attacked any particular character before, Sungji is the first, lolll but after this chap, I kinda feel bad for Sumin alot after reading quite some comments, lollll. She has tried her best for the past 20 chaps to balance both girls, treating them the best she could offer. After this chap, however, readers mostly praised Sungji for what she did, and even blaming Sumin for not being able to decide and making Sungji sad and hurt like this, lollll. Poor Sumin, lolll, she is doing her best but she didnt get a lot of empathy from most readers, they are either Sungji or Seju. After this chap, it becomes too unfair for her when people pity and praise Sungji so much for her action to Sumin, and thinking its natural for Sumin to end up this way, lol.
Fun fact: I've read a lot of "Seju deserves better" or "Sungj deserves better", lolll, but come on, Sumin is the best for both of them, lollll
last edited at Aug 22, 2017 8:03AM
Es0teric
I can't name one good communicator in this entire Manhwa lol.
well, that's why it's called "What does the FOX say?" because we don't know. Besides Dawoon, Camille is a good communicator and intuitive as well. Sad that we did not see her again, she is such a beautiful character.
yoonie
about Sungji's view .. I am not saying it will take the exact form of ch89.. what I am saying is there exists a probability that we did not hear what she said or will say yet. Sungji's move is very crucial and deserves a chapter by its own.. and maybe that's why Gaji decided to end this one this way to allow for more room to that important scene.
why they dont wear the ring when both of them are keeping their respective ring and especially when both of them knew each other had the ring with them. Pretty weird, dont you think?
not really if you know that they did not have a proper chance to talk such a thing out. and they got back together in the last week of October, 27th of October to be precise.. and Seju moved in just in the following week. we are now around 10 to 14th of November. do you get how the time frame is playing a role in here? Sumin and Sungji been back together after the cheating for less than 2 weeks (too early I guess to see them wearing any promise rings)
Sumin probably still think that Sungji lost her ring, that's why she dont wear hers XDDDD
hahaha.. She is a coward who almost wanted to ask, but didn't.
yoonie
about Sungji's view .. I am not saying it will take the exact form of ch89.. what I am saying is there exists a probability that we did not hear what she said or will say yet. Sungji's move is very crucial and deserves a chapter by its own.. and maybe that's why Gaji decided to end this one this way to allow for more room to that important scene.
I believe Sumin and Sungji's talk will take up a whole chapter and I also am waiting for Sungji's reason a lot xDDDDD, its too important anyway xDDDDD, but I sincerely hope she really didnt leave Sumin in the middle of the crowd without a word, lollll, because no matter what people analyse, if she leaves like that, the author really ruins her character in me, xDDDDDD.
not really if you know that they did not have a proper chance to talk such a thing out. and they got back together in the last week of October, 27th of October to be precise.. and Seju moved in just in the following week. we are now around 10 to 14th of November. do you get how the time frame is playing a role in here? Sumin and Sungji been back together after the cheating for less than 2 weeks (too early I guess to see them wearing any promise rings)
LOL, its just 2 to 3 weeks? I just said above its a month, LOLLLLL, 3 weeks and SuminxSungji is on such a emotional roller coaster ride, XDDDD, and now this leaving thing. Seriously, if they do end up together, it still feels off with the time frame, LOL
hahaha.. She is a coward who almost wanted to ask, but didn't.
Tbh, it doesnt have to be necessary Sumin, it can be Sungji, and seriously, this girl, if you want to mark a girl yours, go tell that girl wear the ring and flash it in front of her ex to show "I'M TAKEN", LOL.
yoonie
Haha, I'm sorry that you're misunderstanding. Maybe I'm not making myself clear enough XD
My original point was that IF Sungji left Sumin for herself then it's commendable. Why? Because if your relationship is inviting toxicity into your life, you don't HAVE to stick it out with that person. Kudos to her because it is hard to come to this realization and follow through with a break up when you're still in love with that person.
If Sungji left Sumin for her own mental health, the n that's worthy of praise by itself. It's not cowardly to leave a relationship that may not be right for you or your significant other (at the moment).
About the WAY she left her, that wasn't very nice at all. To leave someone hanging like that is a bad way to break up, but no one is perfect. That doesn't mean she's a coward though.
Of course, this is all hypothetical since this is probs not the reason she left Sumin and we're probs going to get a flashback of her explanation.
This also all a matter of opinion. I respect when you say that you think Sungji is a coward:)
Btw, Ch1 to Ch6 of "what does the fox say?" are accessible for free in Lezhin till 28th of August. It is a good chance to experience Gaji's art in HD and see some official translation specifically for ch4
I think all the three characters has their own flaws and traits, no one is perfect/without blame now. Yet only smart eyes and open minds can see all faults of the three, not judging in black and white.
The easier fault people can see is seju's
Seju fault is her cheating, and choosing holding on dying relationship for too long.
Her defense is she did it all for love and human makes mistakes. Just like what she said, she doesn't care other people thinking, she will fight for whatever important for her. Her discreet attitude and acting high & mighty sometimes taken as manipulative behavior by some readers.
Then we can see sumin's fault:
Sumin fault is her ignorance and falling in love with 2 ladies. Lol. Only After half story, she finally accepts what she feels, and after 3/4 story she realize what she did wrong both to sungji and seju. But we can see her effort to make it right, you can't ask for people to change completely. Sumin can't just kick out seju off and living happily ever after with her new found love sungji like what some readers expect sumin to do. No matter what, seju is someone sumin used to(or still) love dearly. Sumin is in debt with seju in a way. It will make her character becomes more unlikeable if she doesn't experience a lot of things like what shown in manhwa, before she is able to decide to part with seju completely.
Sungji fault is a hard one, but keep in mind that what she said to sumin in early chapter.
She lets all this mess happens. Sumin has given warnings, and sungji is the one who open the door without any invitation. Just like any other first love, she did a hell of mistakes. She is giving herself rather quickly, and keeping silent for things that matter to discuss about. She avoids confrontation many times, e.g when seju told that her and sumin is a sex buddy and sumin is drunk. Sungji could ask as sumin's girlfriend.
She coped when sumin behave badly, trying to "change/protect sumin life" by saving her from seju. And when she realized it isn't like what they used to think... all this make her insecure, and doing dumb decisions, like in ch 90
Sungji is not bad, but she is at fault too lol.
last edited at Aug 22, 2017 12:17PM
I think all the three characters has their own flaws and traits, no one is perfect/without blame now. Yet only smart eyes and open minds can see all faults of the three, not judging in black and white.
The easier fault people can see is seju's
Seju fault is her cheating, and choosing holding on dying relationship for too long.
Her defense is she did it all for love and human makes mistakes. Just like what she said, she doesn't care other people thinking, she will fight for whatever important for her. Her discreet attitude and acting high & mighty sometimes taken as manipulative behavior by some readers.Then we can see sumin's fault:
Sumin fault is her ignorance and falling in love with 2 ladies. Lol. Only After half story, she finally accepts what she feels, and after 3/4 story she realize what she did wrong both to sungji and seju. But we can see her effort to make it right, you can't ask for people to change completely. Sumin can't just kick out seju off and living happily ever after with her new found love sungji like what some readers expect sumin to do. No matter what, seju is someone sumin used to(or still) love dearly. Sumin is in debt with seju in a way. It will make her character becomes more unlikeable if she doesn't experience a lot of things like what shown in manhwa, before she is able to decide to part with seju completely.Sungji fault is a hard one, but keep in mind that what she said to sumin in early chapter.
She lets all this mess happens. Sumin has given warnings, and sungji is the one who open the door without any invitation. Just like any other first love, she did a hell of mistakes. She is giving herself rather quickly, and keeping silent for things that matter to discuss about. She avoids confrontation many times, e.g when seju told that her and sumin is a sex buddy and sumin is drunk. Sungji could ask as sumin's girlfriend.She coped when sumin behave badly, trying to "change/protect sumin life" by saving her from seju. And when she realized it isn't like what they used to think... all this make her insecure, and doing dumb decisions, like in ch 90
Sungji is not bad, but she is at fault too lol.
Well said!!
^ i second that. Your ability to write without showing an obvious bias towards one character over another in this instance is commendable. Tempted to go back and read your previous posts.
last edited at Aug 22, 2017 5:09PM
Es0teric
I can't name one good communicator in this entire Manhwa lol.
well, that's why it's called "What does the FOX say?" because we don't know. Besides Dawoon, Camille is a good communicator and intuitive as well. Sad that we did not see her again, she is such a beautiful character.
Well also because drama arises from conflict and the easiest way to create it is via a lack of communication between main characters ; )
“No conflict, no drama”. George Bernard Shaw
She coped when sumin behave badly, trying to "change/protect sumin life" by saving her from seju.
What did she do to change/protect Sumin? Don't remember seeing Seju trying to kill Sumin.
^ i second that. Your ability to write without showing an obvious bias towards one character over another in this instance is commendable. Tempted to go back and read your previous posts.
I think I saw people writing "I love the three of them" everywhere.
last edited at Aug 22, 2017 7:14PM
Fun fact: I've read a lot of "Seju deserves better" or "Sungj deserves better", lolll, but come on, Sumin is the best for both of them, lollll
How about "Sumin deserves better" lol. She ends up with either a manipulative cheater and abuser obsessed with her, who can't really understand her or with a kid who made her fall in love again, made her work hard to hear the magic words, gave her happiness and... dumped her, again.
Fun fact: I've read a lot of "Seju deserves better" or "Sungj deserves better", lolll, but come on, Sumin is the best for both of them, lollll
How about "Sumin deserves better" lol. She ends up with either a manipulative cheater and abuser obsessed with her, who can't really understand her or with a kid who made her fall in love again, made her work hard to hear the magic words, gave her happiness and... dumped her, again.
- Seju is not a manipulative cheater nor is she an abuser obsessed with her who can't really understand her
- Sungji is not a kid
- Sumin didnt even work hard to hear the magic words, she heard it even before she gets to work hard
And no, Sumin doesnt deserve better, she already has more than what she deserves with two people who loves her more than anything else
last edited at Aug 23, 2017 5:02AM
To me Seju is manipulative. And she did cheat with a bartender so she is a cheater.
If Sungji ran away then to me she is a kid.
I'm mainly Sumin fan even though I like Seju and Sungji but I can't see Sumin ending up with Seju no matter what and I'm not sure if I'd accept her with Sungji right now either. I see Seju part as done. Sungji gotta talk with Sumin, not act live a coward.
yoonie
Haha, I'm sorry that you're misunderstanding. Maybe I'm not making myself clear enough XD
My original point was that IF Sungji left Sumin for herself then it's commendable. Why? Because if your relationship is inviting toxicity into your life, you don't HAVE to stick it out with that person. Kudos to her because it is hard to come to this realization and follow through with a break up when you're still in love with that person.
What is toxic though? xDDDD If it's toxic, sometimes you should help the person to get rid of that toxic part and move forward with that person, not give up to save yourself and abandon that person with the toxic part. That's still not a commendable act, that's still a selfish act to save yourself.
If Sungji left Sumin for her own mental health, the n that's worthy of praise by itself. It's not cowardly to leave a relationship that may not be right for you or your significant other (at the moment).
And abandon Sumin who she loves with her own mental health which might go worse after Sungji left. That's not worthy of praise at all. That's just as selfish as Seju at the moment.
This also all a matter of opinion. I respect when you say that you think Sungji is a coward:)
No, I dont think Sungji is a coward, I think she did it for Sumin while you think she did it for herself and that makes her a coward XDDDDDD. I'm arguing with your opinion.
To be exact, I think she did it for Sumin but ending up making things more complicated than it should be and making Sumin's life more miserable if, and only if, she left without words.
Her intention is selfless, not coward, nor selfish but it's showing in an coward way if she ran away and if she didnt think of Sumin's feelings when she decided.
last edited at Aug 22, 2017 11:05PM
To me Seju is manipulative. And she did cheat with a bartender so she is a cheater.
Its not until its prove right that Seju is manipulative. And well, I'm tired of proving something like this
If Sungji ran away then to me she is a kid.
You dont even know for sure if she has run away or not.
And what she did for the whole manhwa is better than most of the adults has done in their real life.
If Sungji is a kid then Sumin is a toddler for running away from her feelings for 10 years
I'm mainly Sumin fan even though I like Seju and Sungji but I can't see Sumin ending up with Seju no matter what and I'm not sure if I'd accept her with Sungji right now either. I see Seju part as done. Sungji gotta talk with Sumin, not act live a coward.
- Seju's part is not done
- You cant see Sumin ending up with Seju no matter what but a lot of people now can actually see she can now.
- Sungji is a coward for not talking then Sumin is a effing beyond coward to Sungji for the whole manhwa
last edited at Aug 22, 2017 11:18PM
Yoonie - we all have different opinions :) and some of us will never change our minds.
No, I dont think Sungji is a coward, I think she did it for Sumin while you think she did it for herself and that makes her a coward XDDDDDD. I'm arguing with your opinion.
To be exact, I think she did it for Sumin but ending up making things more complicated than it should be and making Sumin's life more miserable if, and only if, she left without words.
Hahaha, no. I'm saying IF she left for herself. I'm not saying that I think she did ACTUALLY leave for herself. I'm sorry you missed my point. IF she did it for herself, I don't believe she is a coward.
Sticking around to help someone fix the toxic aspects of their lives can be a very nice thing to do BUT it doesn't make you a coward to leave a situation that is damaging to you. HOWEVER, in Sungji's situation, I don't believe it would be coward's move to abandon ship. I feel like Sumin has put her through a lot. Sungji is 10 years younger and has different experiences with disappointment and relationships.
But, again. Disclaimer: I do not think Sungji left for herself. This is just hypothetical. IIIFFFFF she DID leave for herself, then that's perfectly okay.
Fun fact: I've read a lot of "Seju deserves better" or "Sungj deserves better", lolll, but come on, Sumin is the best for both of them, lollll
How about "Sumin deserves better" lol. She ends up with either a manipulative cheater and abuser obsessed with her, who can't really understand her or with a kid who made her fall in love again, made her work hard to hear the magic words, gave her happiness and... dumped her, again.
You almost made me a Sumin's hater.
D1LD0Z3R
Nah, I dont miss your point, your hypothesis and I'm talking about your hypothesis and how I see it as a coward act, xDDDD
But it goes in circle at the moment, let's stop it, LOL.
Yoonie - we all have different opinions :) and some of us will never change our minds.
Yeah, sure, but btw, does Enk ring a bell to you?
Yoonie - we all have different opinions :) and some of us will never change our minds.
Yeah, sure, but btw, does Enk ring a bell to you?
Hmm, nope. But you made me curious so please tell me what's that? :p